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| Obama on Immigration
Posted: 5/29/2008 2:17:54 PM | "Most of those who sponsor the illegal side of immigration with such enthusiasm are simply not subjected to the negative effects of such massive influx on any significant scale, as some locations are, which draw them to an overwhelming extent. Such cities see massive upswings in violent street-gangs such as MS-13 and the Latin Kings, and dramatic increases in drug trafficking and street drug sales, as well as a significant downturn of applicable neighborhoods, where residents become fearful and threatened, from those very groups, who essentially care about nothing and are willing to commit just about any crime imaginable."
Thank you, Suth'nBoy. That just reminded me not to forget the easy stereotypes that we should hold on to when thinking about immigration in our country. I had almost forgotten about that part of our immigrant experience. Kind of reminds me of the time when I first applied for a mortage loan for my first house. I had about 30% of the house price for a down payment, and the loan officer looked at me and asked me where from did a person like me got that kind of money. I gave him the dirty look and soon he realized that he hadn't asked the question in the proper manner.
I agree that there is a formal difference between legal and illegal immigration, but the reality of how immigrants are treated ends up blurring the difference somewhat.
As far as valuing the sanctity of our homeland, I would invite you to inform yourself as to the "coyote" system run by the government, giving visas for a fee to people who supposedly come here to study in the summer, but they don't register to take any courses. They just come to work, and they provide businesses with enough cheap labor. Many of those people end up over staying, and are in fact illegal immigrants thanks to the efforts of the recruiters of labor in foreign countries, all this paid by the taxpayers solely for the benefit of some employers.
We could start by asking the federal government to respect the "sanctity of our homeland."
Obama has the correct ideas to deal with immigration. Take the profit motive away by penalizing those who promote illegal immigration, and exploit the working people of our country. Raise the minimum wage and control illegal immigration. Obama has the right plan. | |
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| Obama on Immigration
Posted: 5/29/2008 3:23:40 PM | Tranq you have stated previously you were a legal immigrant. And probably a proud one, as you should be. There is night and day between yourself and those that are here illegally. You belong here just like any bone fide American Citizen does, and you did it the right way. This is your homeland. Anybody who bashes you for being here, or being something you are not, is dead wrong, and their behavior says a lot about their worth as a human being. Just like bashing any other legal citizen for being here. Illegals however, from any country, against our laws, don't belong here.
You can criticize the Fed all you want related to this, and I couldn't agree with you more. This is not an admirable administration that has been responsible in very many ways, and controlling the borders is certainly not one of those ways. This administration promotes illegal immigration for the sake of big business, and at the cost of the average American. That's a terrible perspective to have as the leaders this country. It also kicks people like yourself directly in the teeth. Since it diminishes your reality and all your efforts to do it the right way. But this president is a very self-serving individual and should have never been elected in the first place.
Where I don't agree with you is that you said Obama has the right idea. His solution is largely to ignore the difference between Legal Immigrants and Illegal Immigrants, and to grant amnesty to anyone who cares to cross the border, as well as all those who are illegally here at present. He refuses to even acknowledge that the term "illegal" exists. That mentality can only lead to a chaos and disaster. This mentality doesn't relate only to Hispanics of course, it relates to anybody from anywhere on the globe. He also proudly pronounces that there isn't a dime's worth of difference between himself and John McCain, regarding immigration. And there isn't a dimes worth of difference between John McCain and George Bush, with respect to immigration either. That's not something I'd be proud of. Both Obama and McCain have changed their tune during this election, due to the pressure felt to secure the borders. But fundamentally neither believes in that. They are misleading voters to get elected.
-Suth'nBoy
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| Obama on Immigration
Posted: 5/29/2008 3:49:28 PM | here's OBAMA'S real position on this issue:
let em all in...
they will all vote democratic....
this will be good for MEEEEEEE
the end of the republican party, we will be a one party country like mexico.
GOOD 4 MEEEEEE
you laugh? seen it in action, the days when vito marcantonio brought all the puerto ricans into the bronx, eastern airlines, late fifties, early sixties, nyc, upper manhattan and the bronx would never be the same again. of course, i dont expect you country folk or the canucks to know what im talking about.
But you will, sooner or later! | |
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| Obama on Immigration
Posted: 5/29/2008 6:44:17 PM | "we will be a one party country like mexico............/you laugh? seen it in action, the days when vito marcantonio brought all the puerto ricans into the bronx, eastern airlines, late fifties, early sixties, nyc, upper manhattan and the bronx would never be the same again. of course, i dont expect you country folk or the canucks to know what im talking about. "
That sounds like an opinion of a very ignorant, mis-informed person with regard to both Mexico and Puerto Rico.
Mexico was a country dominated by the PRI for a long time, but that has changed. Now there are other influential parties, and the last two presidents don't belong to the PRI. The election results are no longer predetermined by the party in power. They are real contests between parties that offer very different options to the people.
Now, the complaint regarding the migration of American citizens within our country's territory sounds like a statement bordering on racism. Puerto Ricans have the right to relocate anywhere in the United States as citizens of this country. | |
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| Obama on Immigration
Posted: 5/30/2008 6:17:34 AM | "In Los Angeles, unionized black janitors had been earning $12 an hour, with benefits. But with the advent of subcontractors who compose roaming crews of Mexican and El Salvadoran laborers, the pay dropped to the minimum wage of $3.35 per hour. Within two years, the unionized crews had all been displaced by the foreign ones, and without any other skills, most of the native workforce did not find new work"
C'mon jmarquise do you really think employers are luring illegals over here because they want to pay them more? What bus stop does the short bus come pick you up at?
The "you" is not directed on your race it's directed on your stance on illegal immigration...and who "you" choose to blame for the current issues surrounding illegal immigration.
I think it's so amazing that, nowadays you can't find any whites whose ancestors had anything to do with colonization....guess we had a nation full of quakers then..."Where was that in my history books?"
By the ninth century, Moors (Arabs) from North Africa were raiding Sicily. In 827, they attacked in force at the western end of the island and another conquest had begun. By 903, all of Sicily was in Saracen hands, controlled principally by three emirs, and Islam was the official religion. The Saracens were an Arab people, originally nomadic, related to the the Moors.......WoW!...jmarquise ...who in the hell gave you the history about your ancestors country....Oh I know...you probally got it from the movie True Romance....when Christopher Walken was being made angry about Sicilys percieved past...lol...anywaaay....Sicily was greatly influenced by Ethiopia and even helped out by Ethiopia....not raped and pillaged by WILD black Africans....This is the kind of convenient misinformation that causes fear today. Please do your research before you so willingly except what what your fears conviently except!
My 1918 point is exactly what it is.......Ellis island immigrants didn't have to worry about crossing a border by foot or constant deportation scare tactics because the American immigation laws were lax when it came to Europeans of any nature.
I would love to compare granfather stories as well...My grandfather was a sharecropper in the south born of a slave who constantly would try to pull himself up by "his bootstraps"...but if you werre doing better than whites then your buisness would be burned down and there were constant death threats for not being where they thought you belonged. Couldn't go to the police or the city-council...because they were apart of the system that didn't want to see you come up. The difference between your grandfather and mine is that my grandfather is an American Citizen who because of his skin color can't assimilate like yours was able to. This is not meant to discredit your grandfathers journey here or to make it seem like an unimportant one...but there is NO comparison. | |
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| Obama on Immigration
Posted: 5/30/2008 7:33:16 AM | QUOTE: My 1918 point is exactly what it is.......Ellis island immigrants didn't have to worry about crossing a border by foot or constant deportation scare tactics because the American immigation laws were lax when it came to Europeans of any nature.
^^ Actually they were always lax, preferential even, when it came to Anglos or other northern Euros , and perhaps Germans (especially if they were all preferably Protestants -- "Papists" were never popular...to say nothing of Jews). They had disliked the Irish for various reasons from ....the aforementioned "Papism"... to even some borderline "racial" types of reasons, believe it or not, though I could never really fathom why that was.
Anyway, yes these laws were basically lax on Euro immigration here, UP until 1924 that is -- at which point the "nativists" here in the States (the Lou Dobbs'es of the time, in a way) had evidently gotten loud enough and gotten enough like-minded people into Congress to enable the passing of the 1924 anti-immigration act. That was particularly and specifically aimed at curbing the influx of southern , southeastern, and to an extent eastern Euros as well. All the old "undesirable" types which many Americans of the time believed they were already well-flooded with.
By the time my dad and his parents came here it had been repealed, but only just relatively recently (and that was in the very late 1950's)....so that act hung around for quite some time, making it difficult, to say the least, for southern Euros to get in here (legally). Most of them did wait in line the proper way however, or they simply said forget it and went elsewhere (Canada, Argentina -- my uncle is still there in fact, or even in some cases a lot of Italians and Greeks left the Mediterranean heading the other way -- towards Australia).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1924
But yes, barring the one mass lynching of southern Italian immigrant men which occurred in Louisiana (if you scroll down on the link which will be below, to where it says, New Orleans, 1891), Italians were generally never subject to an institutionalized ongoing socio-economic discrimination and were therefore able to assimilate far easier here than blacks ever were obviously.
They / "we", were not subject to Jim Crow segregation (even though most Italians settled in northern cities anyway), were not subject in later yrs to economic discrimination such as redlining and blockbusting and so forth (in fact in many cases Italian-Americans were just as much a part of "white flight" whenever blacks moved in as were any other non-black peoples). They were therefore, due to all these factors, able to get at least a "leg up" (so to speak) and begin to move onward and upward through better education and better schools in generally better neighborhoods, etc.
In my personal opinion, I feel that after bad (initial) communal experience(s) here, such as the link below for just one example, Italians quickly realized that the best way forward in this country is to get yourself considered as "white" as possible as quickly as possible -- which was why they reacted (and still may react) so vehemently (sometimes even violently) to any "hints" or what have you that their "bloodlines" , if not their appearances or whatever, were quite possibly not like that of someone from northern Europe, suffice to say ...
I discovered this in myself in fact, and it was a bit of a surprise at first I have to admit, but I had several of those commercially available scientific paternal DNA tests done (see, FamilyTreeDNA and/or National Geographic Human Genome Project by IBM) and learned that the DNA "type" which my father and I bear is not very common in Europeans at all, and when it is found it's usually only in southern Italy or southern Spain. My three exact "matches" so far have been one Spaniard, and two brothers from the United Arab Emirates. None from anywhere in Europe. Our DNA type is most common in fact in north Africa, Iraq, Oman, and .....get this....the Fulbe/Fulani males (18% of which have the same paternal DNA as we do) in sub saharan Africa. Shows that , appearances aside, people can be more closely "related" than we sometimes may think... oh and here's that link I was mentioning above....
http://www.americanlynching.com/infamous-old.html | |
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| Obama on Immigration
Posted: 5/30/2008 7:45:57 AM |
C'mon jmarquise do you really think employers are luring illegals over here because they want to pay them more? What bus stop does the short bus come pick you up at?
I didn't say they paid them more. I said they made more. they are paid the same, it just comes out to be more money when it is untaxed. who rides the short bus? when I lived in washington DC and did construction site management, I was familiar with the payroll. I am not saying it's the same all over the country, I am saying in my experience, the illegals made the same hourly wage as legal citizens.
I think it's so amazing that, nowadays you can't find any whites whose ancestors had anything to do with colonization....guess we had a nation full of quakers then..."Where was that in my history books?"
sure you can, just look. I am only one person.
The "you" is not directed on your race it's directed on your stance on illegal immigration...and who "you" choose to blame for the current issues surrounding illegal immigration.
you can read. you and I blame the same people for illegal immigration. the government and the employers who employ them. this is something we agree on.
By the ninth century, Moors (Arabs) from North Africa were raiding Sicily. In 827, they attacked in force at the western end of the island and another conquest had begun. By 903, all of Sicily was in Saracen hands, controlled principally by three emirs, and Islam was the official religion. The Saracens were an Arab people, originally nomadic, related to the the Moors.......WoW!...jmarquise ...who in the hell gave you the history about your ancestors country....Oh I know...you probally got it from the movie True Romance....when Christopher Walken was being made angry about Sicilys percieved past...lol...anywaaay....Sicily was greatly influenced by Ethiopia and even helped out by Ethiopia....not raped and pillaged by WILD black Africans....This is the kind of convenient misinformation that causes fear today. Please do your research before you so willingly except what what your fears conviently except!
this is a joke right? I mean, a statement with spelling like this questioning intelligence? it's called i before e, except after c. say it, repeat it, learn it. I know you go to a college with an 80% acceptance rate and are probably receiving the same education I got in high school, but at least try. you seem to be unfamiliar with sarcasm. you also don't seem to understand how history works. history is nothing more than hearsay. from ones lips to another's ears. you and I have no idea what happened in sicily. it's hearsay that tells us that christopher columbus was the first european in north america, but it's leif ericson who actually was.
My 1918 point is exactly what it is.......Ellis island immigrants didn't have to worry about crossing a border by foot or constant deportation scare tactics because the American immigation laws were lax when it came to Europeans of any nature.
I would love to compare granfather stories as well...My grandfather was a sharecropper in the south born of a slave who constantly would try to pull himself up by "his bootstraps"...but if you werre doing better than whites then your buisness would be burned down and there were constant death threats for not being where they thought you belonged. Couldn't go to the police or the city-council...because they were apart of the system that didn't want to see you come up. The difference between your grandfather and mine is that my grandfather is an American Citizen who because of his skin color can't assimilate like yours was able to. This is not meant to discredit your grandfathers journey here or to make it seem like an unimportant one...but there is NO comparison.
again, dude, do a spell check. sweet jesus christ. I find it somewhat funny that you claim to know what the immigrants in 1918 faced. how do you know this? wikipedia? that seems to be the source of the majority of the misinformed in these forums. fact is, you have no idea what they faced. also, I really don't give a s h i t about how people were treated 100 years ago. it has nothing to do with me. I have never mistreated anyone in my life, with the exception of the verbal b i t c h slaps I give to the misinformed in these forums. we can compare grandfather stories. here's the story of my grandfather. he worked his ass of to get a phd from duke university, then moved to washington DC and got kicked out of his house for being white.
you seem to be bitter. you seem to pervert facts to suit your agenda. I read on another post where you wrote that there are more white people on welfare than black people. that statement has absolutely no merit. anyone with a 3rd grade education would not be fooled by this. you know why there are more white people on welfare? BECAUSE THERE ARE MORE F U C K I N G WHITE PEOPLE HERE! this country is 74% white, that's why there are more whites on welfare. stop distorting facts to create a false image. stick to the facts. oh and for the record, there are more white murders, more white criminals, and more white everything. why don't you start a thread about that. | |
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| Obama on Immigration
Posted: 5/30/2008 7:50:15 AM | QUOTE: Sicily was greatly influenced by Ethiopia and even helped out by Ethiopia....not raped and pillaged by WILD black Africans....
^^^ And actually, in all fairness, to whomever originally stated what you're referring to above fridayboo, it was Ethiopia which was raped and pillaged by wild Italians most recently.... (granted, if one wishes to travel all the way back to ancient times, sure, 800-1000 yrs ago Sicily was brutalized and occupied and much of southern Italy was under relatively routine threat of invasion, pillage, enslavement, etc, by marauding Saracens / Muslims --- some of whom may have been "black", I suppose, by today's standards in America at least ... but then I doubt these ancient people thought of things by modern American "black/white" standards anyway; they were more averse to the idea of being pillaged and enslaved than they were to the idea of "blacks moving in"  )...
http://www.country-studies.com/ethiopia/mussolini's-invasion-and-the-italian-occupation.html | |
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| Obama on Immigration
Posted: 5/30/2008 9:11:16 AM | Unfortunately, you have resorted to a typical conservative tactic: name calling.
It's always easier than dealing with the facts.Please refrain from using vulgar language here. It's unbecoming. It also demonstrates that you are the one who is really hostile.
I have a degree in political science and History so I don't need to go to wikpedia for anything. I was simply pointing out that you were sadly misinformed on the history of your ancestors homeland...and figured the truth would be appreciated...but obviously your content with the information you've recieved. Remember a true seeker of the truth won't settle for hand me down answers...they will actually research it and accept it for what it is.
a xenophobe is: A person unduly fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign, especially of strangers or foreign peoples. <--------------jmarquise
O and thanx for those bits of history xNEROx.....it was very interesting...and a history that I was totally unaware of. | |
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| Obama on Immigration
Posted: 5/30/2008 9:44:15 AM | you really seem to like to put labels on people. now you are assuming that I am a typical conservative. I am not your typical conservative. typical conservatives are morons. as for the name calling............who was it who said:
What bus stop does the short bus come pick you up at?
people who live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones. you seem to be happy presenting distorted facts. distorted to better suit your argument, but when called out on it, you can't defend it.
I simply point out the truth. I don't call you a "typical" liberal. I don't call you a "typical" black man. I don't label people like that. that seems to be your cup of tea. again, about your history lesson, it's hearsay. all history is. you claim to know exactly how everything went down based on hearsay evidence that has been passed down over 1000 years. history is distorted. the simple fact is that we don't know what happened. we can only focus on what's going on now, and right now, we have an illegal immigration problem. to me, it's not a social issue. it's an economic issue. illegals use services provided by the government and in many cases, do not pay the taxes that are needed to provide that service. if you have too many people drawing from a program while not paying into it, it becomes the perfect recipe for disaster. this is my problem with illegals. it's not that they speak another language, it's not that they send money back to their country of origin, it's that they are bankrupting us. we have idiots like barack obama that is suggesting that we raise taxes. how about we tax the ones that pay no taxes at all. | |
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| Obama on Immigration
Posted: 5/30/2008 9:58:52 AM | Once again jmarquise your exaggerating to the highest degree about the truth of illegal immigrants. Why are you doing this? Do you even know...look in the mirror and ask yourself this question after reading this okay.
"Undocumented immigrants pay the same real estate taxes—whether they own homes or taxes are passed through to rents—and the same sales and other consumption taxes as everyone else. The majority of state and local costs of schooling and other services are funded by these taxes. Additionally, the U.S. Social Security Administration has estimated that three quarters of undocumented immigrants pay payroll taxes, and that they contribute $6-7 billion in Social Security funds that they will be unable to claim"(Porter 2005). | |
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| Obama on Immigration
Posted: 5/30/2008 10:27:14 AM | I am basing my argument on personal experience. it's not an exaggeration. you are basing your argument on something you read on the urban institutes website. there's nothing wrong with that, I just choose to base my opinion on personal experience. in my personal experience, the majority of the illegals that worked in the construction trade were paid under the table. at least in DC. I am aware of real estate taxes. I am aware of sale tax. I am referring to income tax, a tax that I find unacceptable. I prefer the fair tax aka a 23% sales tax. barack obama voted to give illegals social security benefits, so they won't be unable to claim those funds for long.
here's a fact for you. if I commit social security fraud, I go to jail. if an illegal commits it, they are rewarded. I need to look in the mirror? | |
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| Obama on Immigration
Posted: 5/30/2008 1:27:21 PM | "I didn't say they paid them more. I said they made more. they are paid the same, it just comes out to be more money when it is untaxed. who rides the short bus? when I lived in washington DC and did construction site management, I was familiar with the payroll. I am not saying it's the same all over the country, I am saying in my experience, the illegals made the same hourly wage as legal citizens."
jmarquise,
that sounds like your experience is pure, un-adulterated ideology, based on the desire to defend a point beyond all logical thinking. That goes hand in hand with the idea that history is all hearsay. I don't have to start a discusion about history now, so I will limit my post to your "experience" as posted, which I quoted above.
The idea that the employers are paying the same wages to both, legal and illegal workers sounds like the employers are not willing to take advantage of the un-documented workers, even when they agree to hire them "under the table." Explain to me now: how that does many any sense?
Do you mean that the employers are so spiritually high minded that they aren't willing to take advantage of the workers, leave alone the idea of exploiting them?
Or maybe they are just stupid idiots that don't know what they are doing by paying the same to legal and illegal workers, and by doing so they are exposing themselves to be indicted and fined for hiring illegal aliens. How is that a smart business practice?
I am starting to think that since you believe that you can't know history, (and history has something to do with the collective experiences of human beings,) perhaps you should start distrusting your own experiences. I can tell you that to me they (your experiences) don't make much sense. Are you sure that you weren't dreaming of some kind of Utopian land where employers didn't make their decisions based on the profit system? | |
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| Obama on Immigration
Posted: 5/30/2008 4:03:57 PM | that sounds like your experience is pure, un-adulterated ideology, based on the desire to defend a point beyond all logical thinking. That goes hand in hand with the idea that history is all hearsay. I don't have to start a discusion about history now, so I will limit my post to your "experience" as posted, which I quoted above.
here's a logical definition for you.
hearsay: information that is heard by one person about another.
I actually can't think of a better definition of history. that is how history is passed on to people. it doesn't mean it's wrong, it doesn't mean it never happened, it means it travels by word of mouth. recent history, not so much. now everything is documented 500 ways.
The idea that the employers are paying the same wages to both, legal and illegal workers sounds like the employers are not willing to take advantage of the un-documented workers, even when they agree to hire them "under the table." Explain to me now: how that does many any sense?
this is easy. you don't seem to acknowledge that illegal (not "undocumented") are more than happy to take advantage of the employers too. that's capitalism brotha. money paid for services. this is how it makes sense. say I own a company. I have a choice. pay a guy $20 per hour under the table, or hire someone full time and give them benefits. the full time guy with benefits is going to cost me $30 per hour once social security, health insurance, and workmans comp is paid. but with some promising free health care, who needs benefits? so as the employer, would you rather pay someone $20 per hour, or $30 per hour? it's pretty simple math. not sure if you have ever worked for a large company before, but I have. every year, right around raise time, they send you a package in the mail. it is supposed to show you what they pay you per year with all the benefits. someone who makes $30,000 per year is paid $50,000 per year by the company when everything is taken into consideration. not sure how accurate that is, but you pay much more to have someone on a payroll.
also, to fridayboo, I am going to extend an olive branch. you seem like a nice guy. we can agree to disagree. no sense in making more enemies in this world of hate. plus, I might be moving up to raleigh within the next few months and would like to invite you over for some sweet tea and bbq. pulled pork with vinegar and red pepper flakes. south east NC, you know how we do. | |
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| Obama on Immigration
Posted: 5/31/2008 12:48:25 AM | I think there are many misconceptions about illegal immigration these days. I saw a video of a debate about illegal immigration in the past at a city council somewhere(California I think was where it was held)and a woman who seemed pro-illegal immigration was saying its a myth that illegal aliens(she didn't use illegal aliens which is the correct technical term, she used the word undocumented immigrants, which makes it sound like its simply legal immigrants who lost their documents, when in fact they are really talking about illegal aliens)are able to get welfare. She said illegal aliens do not and cannot make use of welfare because its against the law. It is true that its against the law for illegal aliens to get welfare(Clinton signed a law into effect outlawing welfare for illegal aliens in 1996), however, illegal aliens can and do make use of welfare illegally on a massive scale. But you will not hear Obama, Clinton or McCain talk about that. They either don't care, or are afraid to talk about it. Here is some more info that talks about the massive costs for L.A. County alone(420 million per year for L.A. County alone, imagine what the costs are for the entire country?), not even taking into account the rest of the country.
County tallies cost of illegals
New statistics from the Department of Public Social Services reveal that undocumented immigrants and their families in Los Angeles County collected more than $36 million in welfare and food stamp allocations in January 2008, according to Los Angeles County Supervisor Michael D. Antonovich.
Approximately 25 percent of the all welfare and food stamps benefits were spent directly on children of undocumented immigrants. The county spent more than $19 million in welfare assistance to the immigrants in January, while more than $16 million was spent in monthly food stamp allocations.
Based upon the released figures, the projected annual cost for welfare assistance and food stamp assistance in 2008 is $420 million.
"Illegal immigration continues to have a devastating impact Los Angeles County taxpayers," Antonovich said. "With $220 million for public safety, $400 million for healthcare, and $420 million in welfare allocations, the total cost for illegal immigrants to county taxpayers far exceeds $1 billion a year - not including the millions of dollars for education."
http://www.the-signal.com/news/article/995/
On a side note, I read an article which claims that human life began in Africa.
http://www.washingtoninformer.com/ARSpecialReport-22006Jan26.html
If thats the case, then all people on the planet have black ancestry and could even technically be considered part black, even white europeans. So really if a white person hates blacks, he's really hating his own distant relatives. If a black person hates whites, he's hating his distant relatives too, because they both came from Africa originally. They may look different now, but they share that same ancestry.  | |
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| Obama on Immigration
Posted: 5/31/2008 1:09:27 AM | Africa is the cradle of Human Civilization. However, the original color of skin was a light brown/bronze. Environmental aspects caused skin pigmentation changes. Sooo, we are all descendants of the same tree... just different branches. Even the African Americans of today can't lay claim to Africa as a homeland without including ALL races.
Gotta love Mother Nature and getting back to the REAL roots. | |
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| Obama on Immigration
Posted: 5/31/2008 5:35:14 AM | Apply for a job as a basic cook (i.e. fast food)
Apply for a job in construction
Apply for a job in housekeeping/cleaning
Apply for a job as a grounds keeper
Apply for a job as a farmer/farmer's hand/farmer's aid
Dam, has everyone forgot about 9/11 already. Those people lived here among us. They raised thier kids here, had different jobs and no one that knew them thought they were about to kill thousands. Now they all had green cards ( legal right to stay here and work ) but now some are wanting to give all illegals the right to be here. I for one will never, ever forget about 9/11. | |
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| Obama on Immigration
Posted: 5/31/2008 9:05:18 AM | No, no, no, Sillygoose!
That post of yours is really confused. I don't mean confusing; I mean confused.
You are mixing 9/11, terrorism, legal immigration, and illegal immigration, all in one paragraph, as if all of that is one and the same thing.
You are going to need to explain what your thinking in all of these subjects is, otherwise your post will be just what it is. It doesn't make much sense. | |
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| Obama on Immigration
Posted: 5/31/2008 9:28:43 AM | It certainly does make sense..
The 9/11 hijackers were Illegal Aliens! They had once been legal with green cards but those, like many many others here, had expired. And the way things are right now, without any control of our borders to speak of, that could easily happen all over again.
Terrorism is only one of a huge array of problems that massive illegal immigration brings with it. But certainly one of the most crucial considerations..
SillyGoose is also referring to trying to get a job in those particular industries. You can't do it. They are all taken. Filled by Illegal Aliens who are willing to work for much less than American citizens can possibly afford to do.. And that's not even addressing the additional crime problems and overpopulation, in many cases. All this is having a dramatic negative effect on the economy of this country. Border security is a major problem that has got to be solved.
-Suth'nBoy
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| Obama on Immigration
Posted: 5/31/2008 11:29:18 AM | Suth'nBoy,
I have a lot of respect for you, even though I don't agree with you on the Hillary or death issue
On this issue you are confusing me with your understanding of the post by Sillygoose. People who end up confusing several issues into a single messed-up idea are easily manipulated by those who offer them a scapegoat. Trying to point a finger to illegal aliens for 9/11 is reminiscent of the tactics of fascim and the nazis. Would you like our country to start rounding up the illegal aliens, destroy their families, confiscate their property, etc? I have told you that the experience of legal immigrants that happen to speak with an accent similar to that of the "illegal" aliens is not very different. For those that don't want people who aren't like them, we are all "illegals" because we all look and sound the same.
I will try to explain why I differ on this issue.
The 9/11 attackers were not "illegal aliens." They were terrorists. Terrorists who came here on a mission. (I know that this has been discussed in other venues, but I think that a lot of people should start learning about the reasons why a bunch of young people from another country would come here to kill themselves and cause as much damage as possible.) They came here via the legal means, but they were terrorists. They didn't come here to work in order to help their families. They came to carry out a plan. (I tend to think that if a terrorist group is determined to strike somewhere there isn't that much that you can do to prevent it, although I hope that I am wrong about this.)
The "illegal aliens" that Sillygoose was referring to by the industries mentioned at the top of the post are those that most people associate with the illegal immigration coming mostly from Spanish speaking countries. You know that, I know that, and it is our responsibility to let our fellow citizens that there are very important differences between those people that come here to work for slave wages in order to help their families, and those terrorists who came just to cause harm to our country. Allowing people to be confused about that is very harmful to the soul of our country, and it will play into the hands of the fascists who like to present easy solutions by scapegoating those who can't defend themselves. If they are "illegals" then they have no rights to be here. --Let me have his car! --Well, ok. Then I will get his house! --No way! I get this one, but you can go get the one around the corner. Those people are also illegals! --No, no, no. They showed me a paper that says that they are legal. It says that he is a naturalized citizen! -- Those papers are all fake. Anyone could buy one of those for five bucks! Besides, those papers aren't valid now because we don't want them here
Do you want to go down that road?
I agree that we need to control the borders first, and then we have to deal with issues related to the people who are here illegally. I have heard Obama explain his position on immigration and I agree with him. He is not inviting illegal aliens to come and destroy the country. He is not planning to give visas to terrorists. Fine big-time the employers who hire illegal aliens, and prosecute all those that are making profits from skirting the laws on immigration.
In the meantime, to allow people to confuse terrorism with the immigration issues as we face them now, is not something that we, as informed citizens, should be doing. The enemies of democracy are spouting that kind of ideology, and all Americans that have their hearts in the right place should line-up to combat it whenever and wherever it shows up. | |
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| Obama on Immigration
Posted: 5/31/2008 11:51:04 AM |
The number one problem with that is that the illegals have taken up jobs that, "hard working Americans," refused to take. I mean, how many of you if you lost your jobs tomorrow would:
Apply for a job as a basic cook (i.e. fast food)
Apply for a job in construction
Apply for a job in housekeeping/cleaning
Apply for a job as a grounds keeper
Apply for a job as a farmer/farmer's hand/farmer's aid
This is the biggest load of carp... what a lie.... I've done three of these jobs while working my way through college. No, they might not have been my dream job, but they paid the bills. My daughter is now looking for work in any of these fields.
Look at the kosher meat packing plant in recent news and at least admit that the employers were hiring illegals so they could skip those pesky OSHA, minimum wage, and child labour laws - not out of some ideal of giving some 'poor downtrodden worker a break'.
Next, how do you defend illegal's use of stolen identities? You can't. Especially if you've had yours stolen and realized how frustrating it can be to prove who YOU are.
Finally, I know your next mudball is going to be... my ancestors came from somewhere. Yep, and they underwent body searches for lice and 'infirmities', deformed limbs, disease, criminal checks AND had to have a sponsor as well as money in pocket - or they were put right back on the boat that brought them. | |
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| Obama on Immigration
Posted: 5/31/2008 1:26:53 PM | Obama, Clinton and McCain may give good speeches on illegal immigration that sound reasonable and effective, but when you look at their voting records, it tells a different story.
Check out this link for more info.
http://www.betterimmigration.com/candidates/2006/prez2008.html
Also, Obama said he worked with McCain on the McCain-Kennedy immigration reform bill(which many people opposed to illegal immigration who did their research rightly dubbed it shamnesty)and he supported it.
The Congressional budget office estimated the plan detailed in the bill would only cut future illegal immigration by 25%, not taking into account guestworkers who would come in and never leave(they were supposed to leave after a period of time and not stay indefinitely). So really it was meant as another amnesty(quite similar to the Reagan amnesty)with little in the way of effective enforcement. You can bet if Ted Kennedy and McCain are behind immigration reform legislation, it will be weak and ineffective, just like they intended it to be, while they are touting it to the people(who don't bother to research it) as an effective solution to the problem.
The Heath Shuler immigration reform bill HR 4088, though not perfect, is far better than the failed McCain-Kennedy bill that Obama, Clinton and McCain supported, yet all 3 of them do not support the bill and do not want it to even come up for a vote because it is too strong and effective and would do far more to solve the problem of illegal immigration than the McCain-Kennedy bill would have. | |
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| Obama on Immigration
Posted: 5/31/2008 4:37:37 PM | He's the democratic nominee!!! ...wooohooo...2,050...He'll have the official numbers next week. Hope we can all join together to beat McCain....Ooooooo happy daaay | |
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_JAFO_
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Joined: 11/9/2007
Msg: 75 | |
| Obama on Immigration
Posted: 6/1/2008 11:07:59 AM | Obama also voted yes on this vote. It was primarily voted yes by democrats. No by republicans.
Date: 10/24/2007
Permanent Residence for Certain Undocumented Immigrants
S 2205: A bill to authorize the cancellation of removal and adjustment of status of certain alien students who are long-term United States residents and who entered the United States as children, and for other purposes.
Highlights:
-Allows the Secretary to cancel the removal of undocumented immigrants and adjust their status to lawfully admitted for permanent residence if they can prove that they have been present in the U.S. for no less than 5 years and were younger than 16 years old at initial entry, have been admitted to an institute of higher education or earned a high school diploma, have never been under a final judicial order of deportation, and have not yet reached the age of 30 years old (Sec. 3).
-Allows an undocumented immigrant with an adjusted status to retain a conditional permanent resident status for up to 6 years (Sec. 4).
-Allows someone with conditional permanent residence to become a permanent resident if they have "demonstrated good moral character," have not been absent from the U.S. for over a total of 365 days during their conditional residence, have acquired a higher education degree, have served in the uniformed services for at least two years and have provided a list of secondary schools attended within the U.S. or with the absence of a higher education degree or military experience, can demonstrate compelling circumstances for the inability to complete a degree or military service or can demonstrate that removal from the U.S. would result in "exceptional and extremely unusual hardship" (Sec. 4).
-Allows undocumented immigrants who are at least 12 years old and meet the requirements to obtain an adjusted status to qualify for a stay of removal if they are enrolled full time in a primary or secondary school (Sec. 7).
-Allows undocumented immigrants with adjusted lawful permanent resident status to be eligible for student loans and federal work-study programs (Sec. 10). | |
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