| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 5/25/2008 4:32:50 PM | if they would have got help they would still be alive.
Again, this is a lie.
I encourage you to read the bible . it says we are to go to DOCTORS. look at the kids that have died with something silly becuaes mom wouldnt take them to doctor thinking God would heal them. if she would have took them they would still be alive. so no maam this is not a lie. | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 5/25/2008 6:21:39 PM |
Sassy Aquarius , yes I can say that I believe it happened with out being there. I cant say that others would believe , that is up to them. I have no problem with the above as you state clearly that it is your belief... but earlier you had stated "it happened" as though your belief makes it true for a certainty, when clearly it cannot..
Same with belief in God, for me I can say without doubt, that God exists, there is enough 'proof" for me, the burden of proof has been met. No way I can make someone else believe though, its a great free world of thoughts out there, makes life interesting doesnt it? I agree 100% and feel the same way myself...
Unfortunately many others feel the need to project their own subjective views out onto all of humantity as though they must believe the same or face dire consequences.. as is evident throughout this thread
Personally I love to find the middle ground where we can all stand no matter how our views may differ.. it's part of what keeps me coming back here for more.. thanks for sharing your thoughts :) | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 5/25/2008 6:33:09 PM | was my healing performed by flying spaghetti monster. the stupidity of some people blows me away. maybe if u try to belive or even try to learn for yourself just maybe God would help you out and give u a miracle
Of course it was the FSM. He always answers prayers. He doesn't even care if you pray to him or not. Can you prove it wasn't the FSM that healed you? | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 5/25/2008 6:36:32 PM | We have Bible Prophecy that is coming true,
Which prophecies?
we have historical evidence that Jesus existed
What evidence? Be forewarned, I've done a lot of research in this area.
In fact , there are those that if they actually saw Jesus rise from the dead, angels roll the stone from the entrance of his tomb, would still deny him for the right price. It happened.
Really? Who did this? | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 5/25/2008 6:40:00 PM | For anyone who has read the bible it states... God help those who help themself.
I've read the Bible and I don't recall seeing this anywhere. Do you have a book, chapter, and verse?
I encourage you to read the bible . it says we are to go to DOCTORS. look at the kids that have died with something silly becuaes mom wouldnt take them to doctor thinking God would heal them. if she would have took them they would still be alive. so no maam this is not a lie.
Where does the Bible say to go to doctors?
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 5/25/2008 6:54:59 PM | Interesting question, well I can only talk for myself and everyday I feel the presence of God when I walk through a field and see birds , animals and other people.
How do you know that not the presence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster? I've seen video footage of him creating the universe. Can you say the same for your god?
The human eye is a work of precision and perfection
Actually it's quite poorly designed. It's incredibly inefficient for its size and it has a blind spot. The FSM must have been hung-over when he designed it. Or maybe he was having a little joke on us.
Logic dictates that order does not arise out of chaos(big bang) so to me this indicates a grand designer at work.
Who designed this Grand Designer? If the answer is no one, then why suppose the universe needs one?
This earth is a master piece of design and perfection .Perfect for our needs and the needs of all life
Hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, the desert, droughts, volcanoes, UV radiation, tsunamis, etc. are all perfect for our life needs? Ask the victims of Hurricane Katrina how hurricanes have improved the quality of their lives and the lives of their dead friends and relatives.
Look around at the simple yet intricate things on this beautiful planet, and who can doubt Gods existence.
Looking around is actually a good way of becoming an Atheist. | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 5/25/2008 7:53:50 PM | I will give it a stab. Prove an existence of God without Faith. I downloaded this so cool thing on Google last week or so. Called Google Earth. I am sure everyone knows of this and it may have been around for a long time already. Its so awesome, makes you realize how small we actually are. The earth is like a speck of sand in the universe. Then when you look at the earth and see how big and beautiful it is. We, as in you or me or (I) are like a speck of sand on the earth.
Now when we look at time. We are all here in a small moment of time. We will all be dead and you know the saying, time flies by and your gone. If there is no God. Life has no meaning and what you do or say means nothing. It doesn't really mater what any of us does in our life when we are gone. Should we all do what just makes us happy?
History has shown us that the many religions of the earth has always existed in one form or another. Most of us feel that we are here for a reason. If its just a big bang thing and random choices and all these other kind of theories. I have too say that is farther fetched for me then God the Creator. The human body is so unique in so many ways. I really can not fathom that we just evolved from a tadpole which made its way to a Ape or chimp. As to the Bible that we all know about. I have read it many times and still read it. I am sure there are many that have read it too. To me its like a chain ling fence. The stories all come together and has real meaning. Where everything comes together to a perspective. If you really want to examine it as I have. We do know today that the bible has not changed since the discovery of the dead sea scrolls in 1947. The scrolls where 2000 years old. They have found it to be basically word for word and matched the the bible that we have today.
My point is this. Prior to Abraham the world believed in many Gods. Abraham was one of the first to believe in a world which only has one true God. Story goes, in his fathers house according to the oral stories, his dad made Idols. So he knew there must be something more then created Gods. As many of us today feel too. Sorry I am dragging this on. The Old testament came from a very small group of Jewish people which started as small as 70 people in all going into Egypt and becoming slaves. After many many years the Jewish people being captured again and again so many times throughout time and history until this very day. They should have been wiped out over and over again. Has to be a god up there to protect them from all the conquerors of the world, remember Hitler? Just a small note. Kind of hard to believe that the "Old testament" does not say all this great stuff about themselves the Jewish people. Actually says not so nice things about there leaders and the people too. Not a book you would want to brag about to others. Would you say? But it survived! And the people survived too! Kind of strange wouldn't you say. Though out time they should have been killed and destroyed ten times over. But their Bible and way of their life is still here to this very day. All I can say is there has to be a God in Heaven that protected them and kept his word of there God to be given to the world. Which it is all over the world. Also the prophecies of the Old testament have come true and they did in so many ways, to many to count. The odds of it are astronomically beyond measure. Just look at a country hated by everyone around them in a state the size of New Jersey and they are well protected from the enemies all around them. We are so small in this world and there is so much hate of each other in this world. Jesus was right, if we would all just love our neighbor as ourselves the world would be in a much better place. | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 5/26/2008 3:32:56 AM | | I will find the phrase about doctors. it says we are to go to doctors. thats why they are here. I found that in the bible yrs ago. if ur bible does not say it then it prooves the bible has changed. my bible was copywrited 43 yrs ago. it not an updated version. it says thats why doctors are here. if ur bible does not say it then it prooves the bible has changed or has missing verses. | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 5/26/2008 4:56:22 AM | | Wow, great opening post OP very simple to prove god. God is the sun. every day is god's gift to you. Read up on the egyptian god of Ra if you want. There's a video that goes into detail on how many of the stories in the bible simply describe god as the sun I can try to find it again if you want. It's a simple foundation for a spiritual awakening, but it works. So many people go through their days without taking time out to appreciate their surroudings. I don't think you're going to find a god more real than the sun. The 3 days Jesus was dead and then resurected can be interpreted as the winter solstice where the sun is at the lowest point in the sky for 3 days the 23th 24th and 25th, then resurected. to prove any other god requires faith. first a person needs to find faith in themselves and to do so you need to expand your mind outside of the physical scientific realm. | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 5/26/2008 5:50:17 AM | | ok so there are 'gods' out there, not just a god. My personal belief is of that where the sun is proof of god, but that leaves something up to faith, so I just said that the sun was god. I could go into how I believe that 'god' is everything that is not physical, the spiritual realm so to speak. the physical is what defines what god isn't or more specifically what god was, but I don't see the point in getting into my philosophies. The op wanted proof and I doubt anyone can come up with one better. | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 5/26/2008 7:10:51 AM | | Regarding the "the Bible says go to doctors", it shouldn't be an issue, but the Count will make it so just to score points. After all, you believe in God, and that is not something he can really live with. Anyway, there is no verse that tells people to go to doctors. "Go to the doctor" is a relatively modern concept. Maybe you read something like when the foreign general was told to bathe in the river to cure his kin condition, or something similar in which someone was given a "treatment" and cured by someone acting like our modern doctor, dispensing advice or compounds. I don't really know, just trying to help. If you want to do a search in your version, you could go to http://biblegateway.com and select your version and key words. It might help you figure out what verse you are referring to. | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 5/26/2008 7:29:47 AM | Where does the Bible say to go to doctors
Luke in the bible was a doctor. but outside of that it is in the bible. I came across it yrs ago while skimming through the bible. I came across it by accident. and if i can find it again i will be happy to post it here. | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 5/26/2008 7:45:41 AM |
Luke in the bible was a doctor. but outside of that it is in the bible. I came across it yrs ago while skimming through the bible. I came across it by accident. and if i can find it again i will be happy to post it here.
kittenshere
I would recommend that you spend some more time in the Word in hopes that maybe you will get a better understanding of how to rightly divide the word of truth.
There are many instructions in scripture that need to be read by the Spirit in order to understand what is being said... for example, when Jesus says if the eye causes us to sin, 'pluck it out' or if the arm causes us to sin, 'cut it off'...Jesus gives these instructions and then says .."it is better to enter life an amputee than go into death a whole being"...
should we take this literally?? I hope not!..or one would also have to believe that there are amputees in heaven, with no eyes and no arms..... | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 5/26/2008 8:20:09 AM | Regarding the "the Bible says go to doctors", it shouldn't be an issue, but the Count will make it so just to score points.
You're right, that's not the real issue. The issue is that she's using the Bible to justify her beliefs even though these beliefs aren't supported in the Bible. I agree with her that when people need medical treatment they should go see doctors. I just think a better argument can be made than "it's in the Bible." That's actually the worst argument you can make.
After all, you believe in God, and that is not something he can really live with.
I'm fine with people believing in god(s) (though I'd prefer that everyone was Atheist). What I'm not fine with is Theists flying airplanes into buildings, blowing up abortion clinics, banning stem cell research, banning cloning research, teaching Creationism or Intelligent Design in public schools, getting government to subsidize religious institutions, etc. | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 5/26/2008 8:26:28 AM | It's a constant battle. But it's better than it used to be.
Used to not be able to say anything that went against religious beliefs without a knock, knock, knocking on your door by some inquisition or mob.
Exploring the unknown shouldn't be verboten. We learn how to better the world when we learn more about it's things. | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 5/26/2008 9:20:31 AM | Luke in the bible was a doctor. but outside of that it is in the bible. I came across it yrs ago while skimming through the bible. I came across it by accident. and if i can find it again i will be happy to post it here.
kittenshere
I would recommend that you spend some more time in the Word in hopes that maybe you will get a better understanding of how to rightly divide the word of truth
And is there some reason you belive ur right and everyone else is wrong? You have no idea and u will not know until you meet ur maker. if bible says he was doctor then he was doctor. | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 5/26/2008 10:32:24 AM |
And is there some reason you belive ur right and everyone else is wrong? You have no idea and u will not know until you meet ur maker. if bible says he was doctor then he was doctor.
kittenshere
I am saying that the entirty of our faith and understanding of the gospel needs to be balanced with all of scripture. I am not saying what I say is right or wrong and I am not saying what you said is wrong in itself either....what I am saying is I would rather have a doctor operate on me who has actually read the entire procedure for the operation and understands it entirly , instead of one who ........ahh just forget it...cherry pick scripture all you want, it makes for some discussion.... | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 5/26/2008 10:56:06 AM | Seriously, if this is what you believe to be intelligent debate, and you paid for that education, get your money back. you got an "F". Anyway, back to discussing intelligent matters with intelligent people. You're dismissed!
If you learned anything about geography from a teacher have that teacher shot, cremated, scatter the ashes in a sewer, have the ashes eaten by rats, burn the rats and scatter their ashes into the home of the late Mr. Rogers so that those ashes may never be discovered again. Your logic has the estimated worth of a counterfeit penny. You fail. About face. Forward march. Left, left, left, right, left into a ditch. | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 5/26/2008 1:04:03 PM | _______ said it.
I believe it.
That settles it.
Everyone justifies their belief.
They defend it vigorously.
Who likes to be told they're suckers.
Even if P.T. Barnum said their's one born every minute.
BTW my belief is the true belief.
And I have the scripture,
religious/ scientific experience,
manifestation, angles,
miraculous events/healings,
scientific data, experiments,
theories, and undeniable
proof/faith to prove it.
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 5/26/2008 3:04:59 PM | | consig. look up luke. it says luke was a MEDICAL DOCTOR. thats not hard to understand for some of us anyway. its right there in front of you face. what else can medical doctor mean? if u have a new meaning for the term medical doctor I woud like to know what it is. | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 5/26/2008 6:19:39 PM | Luke in the bible was a doctor. but outside of that it is in the bible. I came across it yrs ago while skimming through the bible. I came across it by accident. and if i can find it again i will be happy to post it here. look up luke. it says luke was a MEDICAL DOCTOR. You forgot the chapter and verse. | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 5/26/2008 7:47:42 PM | To the OP:
Why is it so hard to accept something that is wholly mysterious?
Can you fit the infinite inside your head?
Since you obviously can't; nobody can, is that any reason not to believe He exists?
Because something is hard to define, and well, your a philosopher so how can you believe something if you cannot even define it, let's look at some things that are also hard to define...
How many poets have written about Love? Did they all say the same thing? Have you read them all? Were any of them in absolute agreement as to what love is? The Greeks came up with some nice terms. Yet can Love even be quantified into words? Can anything? Isn't language rather arbitrary? How can two humans actually TRULY communicate when each person arrives with a different set of connotations to each word? How does the human mind even process the human experience? Why? How?
Is there really a need to attempt to disprove someone's faith? Is there any good that will come from that? Is there any good?
Here's an analogy: To me, faith is like the wind, when I have strong faith, I know a parcel amount of the direct effects of God on my life. I can't see the wind, but I know it's there. I can feel it. Please don't try to prove the wind exists, to disprove the analogy. It's an analogy. | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 5/26/2008 8:11:35 PM | I want you to pick up your mouse.
Feel that?
That's God. Everything around you, within you, outside of you; everything you see, touch, feel, taste, and smell is God. Every creature was created by it's algorithms and patterns; it's species shaped by its choices and viewpoints; that is God. You are as much a part of Reality as Reality is a part of you.
Reality is God; it has a personality all of its own and wants certain things. It allows the willful suspension of disbelief that enables people to feel and be in control, when in reality, it is they who are control.
God is love.
God wants novelty. | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 5/26/2008 8:48:28 PM |
*- This thread is rapidly going off the rails. I would like to remind the participants at this point to reacquaint themselves with the original post and stay on the topic of discussion. While some tangential thread drifting is allowed, this is NOT, repeat NOT a thread to prosletyze or preach EITHER belief or unbelief in any faith or non-faith path. Offenders are on notice now that drifting too far off the beaten track will result in post deletion. Apparently since even this is not clear enough and I just had to delete the first post made after my warning, I will say it again. Before you decide to post to this thread - READ THE OP. There will be zero tolerance for violations at this point. Repeat offenses will earn a holiday of increasing duration. I trust that is clear. Please resume your discussion but stay on topic. TheMadFiddler-* | |
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