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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/17/2008 4:10:17 PM | This is a great topic! I never get into religion at all, beceause of the double standards and meaning of the word it self is debasing. Re, equals back ligion means binding. Legion in the bible is like a vampire or somthing.lol. Most religions are just out to suck the life force out of it members. Nothing more then blood suckers of the poor. However back to the original question. The word God itself means takes on way to many meanings. Gomar oz dubar is my favorite, which means wisdom strengh and beauty. It represents the the 3 focal points of the sun. Dog is also another name that was used for the most high, hence the dog star. Dog is just God backwords. So, I never really focus on titles. Lord is another one thats has double meanings. We are made up of everything in the universe, so the tree of life is us, or the well of life is us. Infact we are the us that the bible and quran speaks of(creation of man.) Just do some research. Let us make man gene-isis. In the quran it says "we" made out of sounding clay. Now before you come sword poking. Get this it say's of" Black MUD." Wow. The bible has 2 creations one after the other. Which was taken from the epics of Geglamesh.
In closing I would like to say nothing is new onder the sun, and the only God is common sence. Peace (proper education alway's corrects errors.) Uni-verse.U-n-i-verse. Blessings. Ausar | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/17/2008 5:20:31 PM | WoW! Sometimes a post comes along that just makes you wanna go "HuH??"
With the plethora of online dictionaries, I wonder how people can come up with such nonsense without first checking their claims.
Religions: English, from French, from Latin religio, related to Latin religens meaning piety.
The Dog Star? Too funny.
"Gene-Isis"? Only if the English scripture you're reading has a typo. It's "Genesis" (the beginning).
"Black MUD"? OK, this I gotta hear explained.
Peace (proper education always corrects errors.) - Amen, brother, Amen.  | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/18/2008 8:33:18 AM | | If you havent read the Quran you wouldn't know what I'm talking about anyway's so go study first. It say's man was fashioned into shape by black mud. Now do I personally take this at face value No. Things just dont work like that, only in magic land lol. I just used it to prove a point. Because everything comes from blackness even you brotha. Maybe if your pinal gland was open to recieve light(knowledge) then you could understand or overstand. However your the man that has the number of man that is 6. Read your bible. Those that study secret know what I'm talking about. However the information is there. They continue to teach of a spook God or a spook devil. I can hardly believe that, unless I am dumd death and Blind to the fact. Even the pope worships the original black madona and child. Which is why I wrote genesis the way I did, Gene-isis was not a mistake. Gene of Isis or Auset. It is khemit, Anthropologist have found the oldest bones to be of the Negroid, hence black race. If one studys metochondria (dna) he would find some interseting information. The most High has alway's been the Original Man and woman. Original meaning first or before. The old Test, is only about 4000 years old. I think it is safe to say that man has been here alot longer then 4000 years. Well I know my history goes further then that. So gene-isis is not the begining, and further more Moses wasn't even alive in the first chapter of the bible yet he is credited with the torah. The first five books of the bible. I close in with peace. (protons elecrons alway's cause explostions) | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/18/2008 8:53:01 AM | I'm not going to let you degrade this into a race issue. Your train of thought is as offensive as those who used the Scriptures to condone slavery or racism. And your grasp of the English language is in sore need of some remedial work. As for your claim I've got something to do with 666, you're just "whacked".  | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/18/2008 11:57:54 AM | Sodapoppi,
I"m not gonna do the gender thing. A question was asked and I answered it.
I didn't use faith or scripture.
If my kid asks a question and I answer it, nobody says "hey wait.....prove that !"
I ask God questions all the time. Sometimes I get immediate answers and sometimes I get total silence. | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/18/2008 1:11:21 PM | This guy proved god's existence with a banana.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of90cKxSeuw
And this guy does it with peanut butter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZFG5PKw504&feature=related
The both call it "the atheists worse nightmare."
So there you have it. Undisputed prove of god's existence without faith. | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/18/2008 1:11:37 PM | | I appoligize if I have offended you in any way romanticoptimist...I in know way want to beef in anyway. I dont except for you to grasp what I'm saying if you haven't studied. Also, I was using the Quran to prove a point. The Black Mud is there. I'm pretty sure you can find it on the internet. Why is it that when a person say's anything about the color it is attributed to racism? I never painted God in any color at all, nor his prophet Jesus. Know finite mind can comprehend the infinite. You attack my reason for using the scripture however I didn't write them. In fact they say shake spear has somthing to do with that. So, I guess you win that arguement.lol. Peace | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/19/2008 6:17:58 AM | Hey kaagwaantaan. Thanks for the reply. I did want to metion a couple of things about your reply. You said
I"m not gonna do the gender thing. A question was asked and I answered it.
I only raised the gender question in reference to your initial post where you used the word "he" twice. I was wanting to be clear about your concept of "god" since I don't know you or your particular beliefs. I assure you I was only attempting to get a better grasp of your concept of "god".
I still don't see that you "answered" my question or "challenge", however you DID respond to it. What I mean is that you say your proof is that
He has a voice, he talks to me.
which seems to create a problem that you may not have considered.
If EVERYONE is able to claim THAT as "proof" of their "god(s)" or any being that isn't able to be detected beyond ones personal experience then we are left AGAIN with the inability to verify the validity of ANYONES concept of "god(s)".
To state the obvious , we both know that people have VARYING concepts of "god(s)" and alot of which are concepts that CAN'T ALL BE CORRECT. You know what I mean?
With all due respect this is why I don't believe you have proved your concept of "god".
Now onto where you stated
I didn't use faith or scripture.
I wouldn't accuse of using scripture b/c I still don't know the details of the concept of "god" yo believe in. You haven't metioned whether its derived from a particular religion or "holy book(s)" so I can't address that issue out of fairness and honesty.
However, when it comes to the "faith" issue I would have to say that you are using "faith" to believe in your concept of "god". And ofcourse I will explain :)
Just because anyone "hears" a voice whether audible or inwardly from a source unseen or unknown doesn't necessitate drawing the conclusion of the "god(s)" concept
as being the source of this voice.
I also want to point out that it also DOESN'T mean that one is delusional or insane who is in this position. If anything questions should be raised about the source of the voices.
This is why I also asked if the voice was audible. Some as I'm sure your aware of say their "god(s)" speaks to them but not in any knd of audible way but it's more like a feeling that they get. I wanted to be clear which category you would place yourself in.
As a side note I wondered if you or anyone else that reads this post have ever thought about how when we dream we are able to hear voices and carry on conversations w/ the "people" in our dreams as if these people are actually in our head interacting w/ us.
Theres so much to learn about how the human brain functions and its capabilities.
As to when you said
If my kid asks a question and I answer it, nobody says "hey wait.....prove that !" I'm not really clear of the point you were trying to make so I won't try to assume I do. I will just leave that alone and you would like to clarify it please do so.
Lastly you said
I ask God questions all the time. Sometimes I get immediate answers and sometimes I get total silence. A few questions come to mind in regards to that statement but on account of brevity I will just ask this one:
How do you know that your prayers are being answered or not answered in light of considering how good/beneficial and tragic/disasterous things that naturally happen within the human experience?
Thanks again :) | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/19/2008 9:33:17 AM | | No muss, no fuss. I probably misunderstood your reference to me as "the man who has the number of man that is 6" as having to do with the "666", and your use of the word "spook" as being a racist slur along the lines of "whitey". And then there was references to the black Madonna and child. Anyway, from my point of view, ALL have a common bond under God, and "in Him there is no slave or free, Jew or Gentile, male or female, black or white". If that works for you too, that would be great. If not, no problem. HAND | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/19/2008 11:28:55 AM | sodapoppi,
you make a mountain out of a molehill.
My point about my responding to my children was this. If my kid calls me up and said "Can I spend the night as Kristina's House " and I say "No" (or even yes).....
It's not like one of her friends are gonna say "prove that you just had a conversation"
Scripture tells us that sheep KNOW their shephards voice. Scripture tells me that the Father knew me before the foundations of the Earth were laid.
Why wouldn't I know my Father's voice?
my son knew my voice and would track me 24 hours out of the womb. Nobody bats an eye over this bit of info. | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/19/2008 2:11:44 PM | Scripture tells us that sheep KNOW their shephards voice. Scripture tells me that the Father knew me before the foundations of the Earth were laid.
Baaaaahhh. Great to see ya, sis. Been a fishin'?
I only raised the gender question in reference to your initial post where you used the word "he" twice. I was wanting to be clear about your concept of "god" since I don't know you or your particular beliefs. I assure you I was only attempting to get a better grasp of your concept of "god".
If I may butt in, our God is often refered to as "He" by His appointed writers in that Holy Book we call the Bible.
This God never identified Himself as a male but His Son, Who we are told is "one with His Father" is.
Even after His time on earth, in the NT, he is once again refered to as the Groom, and we are His bride.
Nature and logic in itself tells of a Creator that has put man as the head of things.
The Bible states that man is in fact "over" the woman, but do not think that to be some great gift or unfair. It also says that the man will be responsable for his wife and her soul as well. Anyway, forgive the longwindedness, my point is that yes, although God is Spirit, He is refered to as a masculine Diety, by His prophets, his children and His own Son. | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/19/2008 3:05:14 PM |
This guy proved god's existence with a banana...
So there you have it. Undisputed prove of god's existence without faith.
hehe! Oh, I get it... all bananas are male, yup... makes good sense to me... Now where can I find me a tasty grapefruit?  | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/19/2008 5:13:49 PM | Apologist,
While the biblical authors certainly use the masculine pronoun "he," it would be a mistake, on my estimation, to infer that God therefore has a gender (which is a biological description). The language is analogical. And lest we forget, there are several passages that refer to God in the feminine (the quasi-Divine being "Sophia" wisdom in Proverbs 8 comes to mind).
It's also a mistake, I think, to infer that Christ's "oneness" with the Father includes his biological masculinity. I'm sure I don't need to remind you that the hypostatic union of Christ only means that he shares his Divinity with the Father; not his humanity. If we include the latter, we run into all kinds of problems.
The bride and groom language is analogical. Are we literally marrying Christ? Ridiculous questions follow: is Christ a polygamist? Will he enjoy conjugal rights with us? etc.
Nature might prove that men are more aggressive, and have greater muscle mass, but I don't know that we can infer male "headship" from that. That seems to be a truth of revelation, if you're a Christian. How would logic prove it?
The rest is all revelation.
If you're a Christian, then God is a spirit, and has no gender. Masculine pronouns are attributed to God analogically. | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/19/2008 8:27:33 PM |
Scripture tells us
His appointed writers in that Holy Book
in the NT
The Bible states
Ah yes...the "book". Because that's not a faith-based argument, and is in fact
Nature and logic in itself
The Book says so so it must be true. Men wrote the book, but those men were inspired by God. The Book says God inspired them, and the book is right, so the men MUST have been inspired, so the book is true, so... in circulum demonstrando is NOT logic, and "the Book" is NOT nature.
Weakest argument in a while. | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/20/2008 5:29:42 AM | If God exists, and one is asked why one refers to God using male pronouns, it's perfectly acceptable and proper to explain how the Bible uses male pronouns to describe God. It is perfectly logical to describe God in masculine terms simply because masculine terms are used to describe God. There is no leap of faith in that and your dismissal is simply an argument for argument's sake.
"The God" of the Bible is described in mostly masculine terms. "The God of the Bible" revealed Himself to humanity as a male. It's perfectly normal and proper to refer to Him as a male. However, "the God of the Bible" has also revealed that He is spirit. Therefore, the reader should understand that any references to Him as male do not imply that "God is a man". Nitpickers, seekers of Straw Men, and the Terminally Clueless will have problems at this point. Intelligent readers and those not seeking offence will just nod their heads and say, "Amen". | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/20/2008 7:31:37 AM | Nitpickers, seekers of Straw Men, and the Terminally Clueless will have problems at this point. Intelligent readers and those not seeking offence will just nod their heads and say, "Amen".
Ever notice how christians talk about non-christians?
Intelligent readers and those not seeking offence will just nod their heads and say, "Amen".
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/21/2008 8:02:51 AM | | Romantic, you are for getting the law of duality, yin and yang. They continue daily to teach athropromorphic attributes of god as being what ever ones imagination thinks off. The God in the bible flys, sits, stands, has hands, talks, walks, and has emotion. My god is common sence, and truth is tangible reality. When I said spook it wasn't a slur to the white race( although according to science there isn't a white race.) Spook is another word for scared or ghostly. That is exactly what they have made the supreme being out to be. Everything other then the truth. We all came from a seed, with in that seed hold the attributes and qualities of The God(s). Atom or adam or atum all represent the same aspect Oneness or the Frist(light and life) The adam of the bible was not the first man or the original man. In fact in hebrew he is discribed as a reddish man( white) or(albino). Which leaves alot of questions in the open for the intelligent mind to wonder?? The 6 I was speaking of is of adam who was birthed on the six day then we rested. It's all in your bible. In the quran the angels asked the most high " will thou place in the earth one who causes the shedding of blood." Allah responds by saying I know what you know not." My question is who is the man and what does he look like? I am not implying that you are that man, or kind of man. It's on you to research. I do know when this man was born sin entered the earth. Nothing Holly at all. This man has a long track record of evil. Look up the word devil and tell me what you get? Then who is representing the devil today. If you read the devil was just a little old snake, and the only way for a snake to be upright, it most rap itself around somthing. It reminds me of the old cross. However just like I said we have duality in everything. Im not giving up my birth right, nor is the original woman. We are Gods and Goddest. Allah and Allat. If Africa is the birth place for all were the climate is Hot. It's safe to say the civilization sprang up out of the "MOTHER LAND." Eu-rope was still in the dark ages, untill MUSA came not mosses. Then the ape man was civilized or put on the square, and tought signs and symbols, which you get in free masonery or other secret societies. I hope you will read this with a open mind. Do some research for your self, then prove me wrong. Peace | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/21/2008 9:40:09 AM | Dear ausar81
Thank you for clarifying. I have no desire to prove you wrong. What you believe is what you believe. It's not what I believe and it doesn't make any sense to me, but that's fine. It is, after all, what you believe. Peace. | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/22/2008 6:06:00 AM | I guess I would have to keep it really simple. Can you see the wind...No...
Can you see the evidence of the wind...Yes...
Is the wind real....Yes...
How do you know the wind is real....by the things that are "Moved" by it....
Can you see God...NO...
Can you see the evidence of God...Yes
Is God real...Yes...
How do you know God is real...By the way He "Moves" me...By the brush of His breath on my face when all seems hopeless...when someone who is self-centered miraculosly
does something incredibly kind...etc...It is not a faith thing...the evidence is all around if you have the insight to "Look." | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/22/2008 6:28:33 AM | I am more intrigued with Pagan gods nowadays.
They seem to be personifications of states of existence. And their interactions inevitably lead to new states of existence. They seem to imply that the expansion and complexities of existence will keep going and involve cycles relying on conflicts following by periods of peace.
It is curious to think about.
Almost as though existence is getting sick and tired of it's own design that leads to ridiculous levels of emergent complexity and wishes it to end already.
To assert that it is now a totality, now no more of this wanting to grow and expand knowledge and create new states of existence.....please?
Recently I saw a person on tv talking about how heaven is not the end. That there is more work to do in heaven, and it'll lead to another level of existence, and then still more work to do, and more after that, and more after that.
That it is a journey that will never offer peaceful rest and most certainly never get any easier. I see an escapable truth unfolding.
But then I am mad. | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/22/2008 8:51:54 AM | As explained by a Messianic Jewish guy, a) open your mouth about one inch, b) try to inhale through your mouth without saying Yah (as in Yahweh).
Vancer, if you need a god, use my dog.
Last night I said, "God! Get off my lap!"
She complied. She must be God. | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/22/2008 9:00:26 AM | who can prove to me love exists,,without using faith?
I dont believe it is doable,,since you cant see love.
But wadda I know
God owes nobody any proof of his existance,,if you want it you get it like the rest of those who got it.
You ask him.
Should he choose to give you any,,then good.
If he ignores you,,too bad.
But you can not prove God does not exist,,because you are meerly a mortal,,with very limited knowledge,,and a corrupt mind who can not even see into the spiritual realms.
Just because you dont see God,,doesnt mean he isnt there,,it might be because you are blind,,and have already made up your mind he isnt real,,so then you will never see him in this life.
Asking someone else to prove God is real to you,,is lame,,lazy,,slothfull,,and ignorant.
Go to youtube,,look up the nine eleven world trade center videos of phone-calls made to 911,,and listen to them.Look at many of the 911 vidoes of the buildings coming down,,and see how many times you here this phrase spoken,,Oh MY God,,Oh My God,,so when faced with certian death,,and fear,,and tragidy,,your own soul will tesify agaisnt you,,that in your heart,,you knew God was real all along,,but you choose to reject it,,out of rebelion.
If you want proof,,get off your lazzy asss and get it yourself,,like everyone else who knows God is real,,has done. | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/22/2008 9:13:29 AM | I guess I would have to keep it really simple. Can you see the wind...
Classic example of theistic non-proof.
False analogy, non-sequitur, circular argument, cum hoc ergo propter hoc, abetted by subjective rather than objective "evidence".
"Wind" has a concrete, testable, measurable definition. It is the movement of air. We may not be able to see air, but we can feel it, measure it, separate its components. It is very much real, testable, and interactive.
"God" is none of these, thus the false analogy.
Can you see the evidence of God
If every possible outcome to every possible question has the same answer, then the answer is actually useless and non-predictive. Without a logical link, your evidence...isn't.
By the brush of His breath on my face when all seems hopeless
Completely subjective and useless as "proof". The topic alludes to proving to others, not to yourself. Only objective evidence can do that.
It is not a faith thing
It absolutely is. This argument has no basis in evidence. The solution has been decided in advance and all "evidence" has been made to fit the solution.
addendum
who can prove to me love exists,,without using faith?
Another false analogy. Love, anger, remorse, etc etc etc...are all emotions. They are internal mental conditions which are sometimes reflected in appearance and behavior. They are not "things". They have no existence outside of the being experiencing them. Unless you wish to actually *define* "God", and define him as an entirely personal and internal emotion, the analogy is again useless.
Should he choose to give you any,,then good.
If he ignores you,,too bad.
In other words, all possible outcomes to all possible questions are "proof". Once again, as proof, that's useless because it's non-predictive.
But you can not prove God does not exist,,because you are meerly a mortal,,with very limited knowledge,,and a corrupt mind who can not even see into the spiritual realms.
Just because you dont see God,,doesnt mean he isnt there,,it might be because you are blind,,and have already made up your mind he isnt real,,so then you will never see him in this life.
Appeal to ignorance fallacy. You cite numerous examples of evidence lacking, and none for evidence existing, yet you cling to the conclusion. The simplest and most rational conclusion to no evidence isn't a string of excuses - it's "the cause does not exist".
so when faced with certian death,,and fear,,and tragidy
Covered in another thread - the old "no atheists in a foxhole" line, which has been easily proven false.
,,and see how many times you here this phrase spoken
Appeal to numbers fallacy. A million people wrong are still wrong. Numerical superiority doesn't prove anything.
Asking someone else to prove God is real to you,,is lame,,lazy,,slothfull,,and ignorant
If you want proof,,get off your lazzy asss and get it yourself,,like everyone else who knows God is real,,has done
Once again, subjective "proof", which is no proof at all. An ad hominem fallacy to boot. I don't think there's any laziness involved whatsoever. It's actually a challenge to believers to prove their case rationally, which they can't.
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