| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/22/2008 4:14:30 PM | | Well I guess it comes down to a heart felt thing ,and, how can you explain it to someone who has never experienced it....Proof by dialog?....I pray your journey will lead you face to face with God...I may not see him (like air) but I certainly can feel Him...Subjective or not...It is factual to me...and you have no instrument that can measure, prove or disprove that one. May God touch your life in a way that is beyond intelligence and leave you, without question, as to the reality of His existence! | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/22/2008 4:18:13 PM | | Would it be logical for anyone to try to prove their god exists? Think about it... most, if not all gods, are faith-based. Proving their existence would negate them as gods. They would no longer have any power over their human creations. | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/22/2008 6:53:44 PM |
most, if not all gods, are faith-based. Proving their existence would negate them as gods. Interesting point...
But would proof be a negation... ? or a validation??
I think it would be a bit of both, as usual... | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/22/2008 7:58:08 PM |
most, if not all gods, are faith-based. Proving their existence would negate them as gods.
Interesting point...
But would proof be a negation... ? or a validation??
Good question.
The statement presumes that "god" can only exist as long as "god" is "unproven", and therefore proving "god" exists necessarily causes "god" to become no longer "god". That would (necessarily) make "god" subject to the inability of anyone to prove the existence of "god". if that were the case, "god" would not be "god" as I understand "god" and as "god' is generally defined (self-existent and self-actual). Therefore, I believe the statement is logically invalid.  | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/22/2008 8:26:36 PM | Vancer, if you need a god, use my dog.
Last night I said, "God! Get off my lap!"
She complied. She must be God.
If I had to choose a god it would be the people I share this world with. I don't hold any faith in divine retribution or miracles, just people and what people working together are capable of.
Religions to me right now are interesting symbolic puzzles. Ones that may contain secrets of what direction existence came from and what direction it may go, but those directions all demand physical action if we are to explore them. No physical action on our part, and we'll see no exploration.
Faith and words are only as good as the actions they induce.
I'm sure most of us think that way.  | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/22/2008 8:36:10 PM | You really can't.can you?
Other than faith (and texts written by the faithful) there's really no "proof" of a god or gods.
No scientific evidence.
No "miracles" (Rather no "miracles" that have occured since the invention of video and widely available and easily used recording equipment)
No one that has gone to an "afterlife" and returned...
Or for that matter proof on an afterlife and its location or locations.
If you have no faith...you have no belief.
If you have no belief,it's doubtful that it exists. | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/23/2008 1:34:31 AM | Maybe our works define our faith which defines our God...
I think that is how everyone sees it.
No institution or faith can persist if the actions of any of it's constituents are viewed as a threat to the preservation of others, and justified by their religious beliefs.
I think it is why conflict is escalating in this world.
There needs to be extensive testing and exam passes before one can be part of any religion.  | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/23/2008 8:42:03 AM | My statement: “Would it be logical for anyone to try to prove their god exists? Think about it... most, if not all gods, are faith-based. Proving their existence would negate them as gods. They would no longer have any power over their human creations.”
The point is the Bible clearly states its revelations are based on belief, thus one needs faith for it to be ‘real’ in any sense of the word.
Sassy
Interesting point...
But would proof be a negation... ? or a validation??
I think it would be a bit of both, as usual...
Hmmm, I can only assume that in essence the recipients of faith-based gods are the only ones who can validate their faith. It is faith which makes the biblical god what it's presumed to be.
romanticoptimist
The statement presumes that "god" can only exist as long as "god" is "unproven", and therefore proving "god" exists necessarily causes "god" to become no longer "god".
Yes and no it doesn’t. Yes, any god can exist in the mind of the beholder BUT what it states is that in order for “God” to have ‘All Powerful’ significance it requires merely faith through Christ… a whole world of difference. That said the existence of Christ is not proven either… thus complete FAITH for both. | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/23/2008 12:57:18 PM | skypoet, you've moved the goalposts.
You began with "god". Now you're saying you were talking about the Bible (the "Bible God" presumably) and Jesus Christ. I stand by what I said -- based on what you said. | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/23/2008 3:29:33 PM |
skypoet, you've moved the goalposts.
“Moving the goalpost”? Nice try romantic...
I'm talking god(s) including the Christian "God", since a debate on any one variety would be exclusive. 
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/24/2008 4:10:44 AM | I propose a battle royal between all the gods, last one standing exists!
Ok, so it seems most gods are not going to show up for our mere entertainment or to prove thier existance... so, i have devised that we get one main object that is a symbol of that gods religion and throw em all in a big bowl and see wich survives.
I have a feeling the fire worshippers would come out ontop, unless the water managed to put it out first.... and then we would have some kind of strange mystery soup.... All hail the Soup!! | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/24/2008 5:23:49 AM | History has shown over the ages that aboriginal people had a sound spirituality that stood up well for them. The gnostics and atheist were a large part of history BEFORE man made religions were forced on the masses. I don't think a supreme being (the same for all) judges people nor says you go "up" you go "down". I believe strongly that man made religions are the basis of wars, strife, idol worship. If one believes in one God then who needs a mere mortal man (or woman) as a middle man destined to live a priviledged life and who leads the masses to slaughter (anyone remember Hitler).
I keep it simple, there is one supreme being and different people have different ways and means of interpreting it. It's the injection of the mere mortal man who has fragmented the population and injected their "truths".
And please don't send the extreme right after me, I deal directly with a supreme being! | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/24/2008 7:27:07 AM | Nope. And never will be. Of course, people on all sides of the discussion need to define their terms more clearly and stop using words like "evidence' and "proof" in scientific and non-scientific contexts (those of the quasi-"science" crowd who don't have a clue are the major culprits in that).
shypoetone: Yeah. Sure. Right. OK. I still stand on what I said in reply to what you said prior to its "conversion".  | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/24/2008 1:27:06 PM | Hey ghostwalker3952 . Thanks for your response. I am unsure if you have read all of my posts in this thread but assuming you haven't I just wanted to point out that I didnt
intend for this to be a thread on disproving the concept of "god(s)".
Some have interpreted this thread in that way as I have seen by replies to this thread.
I also see that some wish to define the concept of "god(s)" in light of there own beliefs while excluding concepts of "god(s)" others might hold to.
I have posted the definition to the words "god", "deity","faith", "proof","evidence","superstition" and a few others in some of my previous posts. Some have chosen to overlook them. But my purpose was to maintain a consistent usage of the terms in question.
I'm not talking about you by the way.
If you get a chance check out my last couple of posts if you have the time.
I've been kinda busy as of late and havent had the chance to respond to some posts that I really want to respond to. But I will :)
Your input is appreciated.
Thanks again :) | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/24/2008 3:03:11 PM | sodapoppi, I read all eight pages.
And I swear I felt the ground shake when I found myself in agreement with romanticoptimist in his last post. lol
As for "intent".....I've noticed that topics tend to have a mind of their own.
However, when I get bored, I'll show up for some more down-home conversation. | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/26/2008 6:40:07 PM | Nope. And never will be. Of course, people on all sides of the discussion need to define their terms more clearly and stop using words like "evidence' and "proof" in scientific and non-scientific contexts (those of the quasi-"science" crowd who don't have a clue are the major culprits in that).
It would be helpful if Theist would define what they mean by god. | |
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Nergal
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Joined: 5/14/2008
Msg: 196 | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/27/2008 1:36:32 PM | Why would I have to "prove" that my God exsist's to anyone? You kinda make it sound as if I want to sell my belief and faith.
He's very real to me, and he's not really happy with what we've done as caretakers of this planet, plus the choices we've made with "free will" and "choice" have really NOT made him very happy I'm thinking.
My friend....as far as I'm concerned and feel, he said it best when he said: "I am who I am." | |
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| Who can prove their god(s) exists w/o using faith?
Posted: 6/28/2008 12:04:52 AM | | well ghostwalker, I said the sun was god. sodapoppi never said if that was good enough proof of a god or not. I saw in another thread that someone else views the sun in the same way I do. I'm glad to see I'm not alone. Oh I forgot to ask, what kind of god are you looking for proof of? a physical one? spiritual one? omnipotent one? the question is really open to how a person chooses to percieve god. God the creator? I think the sun would do wouldn't you? | |
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