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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/25/2008 5:32:43 AM | .Marc...
right... I quit work to raise the kids and be there when they needed someone.
So... I should keep a separate bank account? humm??? Do you think he was paying me a wage to be the housekeeper/cook/nanny/car pool/etc?
I had a good career, but left it when it was clear that someone had to be there for the kids.
What exactly do you think would be in that separate bank account? It sure wouldn't be money.
Oh.. and one other thing. He has a very (VERY) nice retirement account... I have none.
I'll say it again.... when he decides that the 'commitment' is over... without marriage... she is discarded for the next female sucker to fall into the line... "but..Love is the only thing that counts honey...and I'll love you forever". | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/25/2008 5:37:08 AM | This is game playing 101. Withold sex and then he'll want sex enough to give you everything you want.
Newsflash, Men are not children so don't treat them like they are. (taking away their favorite toy.)
I think you need to grow up a bit, and I don't mean that in a harsh way. Men don't marry women they aren't committed to. If they aren't committing, maybe they are with the wrong person? Did you consider this?
You can't make people do something they don't want to (marriage in this case) simply by having a tantrum and witholding sex. For you to honestly believe this, shows a lack of maturity.
Good luck OP, that's quite an attitude to display on a dating site. I note that you don't take responsibility for your own actions, but blame OTHER women for theirs. LOL!@!!
It's all our fault, you are blameless. Gotcha. | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/25/2008 5:39:30 AM | I realize that it sounds very bitter the way I have expressed this here. Let me just say; it is long in the past now. I have picked myself up, and moved forward.
I realize that by revealing my experiences there is a good chance the other people reading this on my profile will decide to not contact me ..... but..... I am writing this in the hope that some other woman will take a second look before following the path I took.
I enjoy my life now... I have a freedom I never knew before.. While I must work, I am fortunate to have work I truly love.
But... please... Ladies... learn from me! DO NOT PLAY HOUSE! If there is commitment.. then there is marriage. Without it... why bother? Just date. He keeps his household you keep yours.
If he will not afford you the protection under the law that marriage represents..then..do not "play" at marriage with him instead. | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/25/2008 5:52:28 AM | (Darrr) Well, ya know, if I have to stroke a man's ego too.........they are just to darn high maintenance for me.
It really boils down to definitions, doesn't it? When does complimenting your partner, and doing nice things for him/her, edge into "stroking his/her ego"?
(Darrr) I dated a man my age for quite some time who could not move past the "missionary postion." There was only one way to do it according to him...........at that was it, there was no further conversation to be had in his mind anyway.
*shrug* So, some guys are idiots. Doesn't mean we all are. And, some guys just like Vanilla Sex. Doesn't mean we all do.
(Darrr) Books are a great beginning, but so is experience.........why do you suppose there are so many young men trying to date older women (cougars). It's because they want to experience what an older woman knows about sexuality.
I'm sure that there's a subset of guys who just wanna "bag" the "cougar", for the experience/bragging rights. I suspect, though, that the majority of guys just wanna get nekkid and sweaty with the Hot Chick, and if the Hot Chick happens to be older? I know that's my mindset... Hot Chicks are like art: I may not be able to define hotness, but I know it when I see it.
Arlo  | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/25/2008 5:52:31 AM |
The reason why less men ask their lady to get married to them is because they are too damn spoiled by women. Women give them sex and everything they would be getting in the marriage. To make a man want to get married to you marriage must have something to offer.
Lets say e.g. me and my boyfriend had been together for 2 years and still not a word about marriage, then I could almost assure you that he would ask quite fast to get married if I didn´t give him sex. Only problem is that so many women are spreading their legs so fast these days that a man would just move on to the next lady if a woman denied him sex.
Men are just spoiled with the smorgasbord these days. Too bad for women that want to get married.
I haven't read through the 14+ pages... so maybe this is somewhat redundant to the subject..
And, although the second poster to your question cant wait for the Divorced guys to start ranting about the inequalities of the Divorce Industry....
Do a google search on Matthew Weeks... The Marriage Strike.
As far as "men are spoiled" LOL.... I believe you should probably take a look at what the Womens Rights/feminists crowd have done to your gender, all in the name of "equality" which really isnt equal at all.. | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/25/2008 7:10:31 AM | ^^^^^ I think Matthew Weeks did a disservice by slapping a label--marriage strike--to a natural consequence for bad behavior...bad behavior on the part of our governments, bad behavior on the part of advertisers, bad behavior on the part of TV and movie producers, and, yes, the behavior of women who've grown up and benefitted--intentionally or unwittingly--from a culture that portrays men as stupid and owing women everything--except men are valuable as cannon fodder in some rich sociopath's war, like, say...IRAQ! It's not a strike, it's an avoidance of something exceedingly painful and soul-destroying.
why dont you girls prepose to us instead, get down on one nee and take a leap of faith , you girls have fought for equality for so long , here is your chance ! ask your man !!! throw tradition out the window !!! You're missing a big point in your assertion of "equality." Remember that some people are more equal than others. After the initial victories that Feminism wrought, like any program that's around a little too long it gets stale, and when it does that's when sociopaths move in to set a, well...sociopathic agenda. That's what post-Feminism has wrought: to establish the female of the species as superior in every way...and they've got the ear of the powerful, rich and influential.
The day a card-carrying post-Feminist gets on her knees to a man is the day that the Chinese Army invades North America, kills all the males and take women as their sex slaves. Uh oh, I read an article somewhere that says that that's entirely possible. | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/25/2008 7:30:22 AM | I think many have been severely hurt, and are afraid of opening themselves up to serious commitment. Everyone always says, "get over it". But truthfully, it's deeply personal and complicated to truly come full circle.
Oh, and there's always the scumbags that just don't appreciate a good thing when it's right in front of them. | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/25/2008 7:36:35 AM | upstate gal,
Kudo's to you for keeping your dignity intact and moving forward to have a good life in spite of the dirt you were dealt. Although it would be tempting, I hope you have not restricted your children's access to their father? Women who are hurting from scenarios like you have described will too often do that and it's a shame. I don't believe children should be denied their right to both parents. They learn very quickly just what kind of human being each one is. | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/25/2008 7:42:24 AM | Been married, had that, never want it again. It's a pain. I'd like a long term relationship, but I'm not sure if I want to live with a man again and share my space...
...so, it's both genders who may not want marriage. Let's not just lay it all on the males' doorstep. Just my 2 cents. | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/25/2008 7:49:31 AM | Because women mostly can't accept a man for who he is.
Does that include men who aren't great lovers? According to the statement above, women should not be idealistic about what just "is". If someone's not very exciting in bed, that "as is" philosophy applies here too, so we should look elsewhere for better sex, no? Let's see:
No, i would not kiss his ass and sweet talk him into thinking he is some kind of stud muffin. He either knows what he is doing or he doesnt. i would hope a man of my age at least has a clue.
Seems to me the poster quoted above is accepting a man for exactly what he is...she may not like it or stay, but she seems to have good radar about it. Another example:
I dated a man my age for quite some time who could not move past the "missionary postion." There was only one way to do it according to him...........at that was it, there was no further conversation to be had in his mind anyway.
Yep, same thing here - there seems to be no confusion about accepting him for who he is...
On the contrary I think women do accept men for who they are - maybe too well, they always have - nowadays tho, a lot of women realize they don't have to live with it, as they might have years ago. The days of trying to change men are in the past...a lot of us would rather stay single, or find someone who fits the bill than stay where it's not working and change anything.
it's both genders who may not want marriage. Let's not just lay it all on the males' doorstep. Just my 2 cents.
I agree with this totally, in fact I think that men are more verbal about it, but just as many women are turned off to it these days...as I have said 1,000 times before in forums, some people want the whole traditional marriage and kids thing, but overall the concept of marriage (which was more about creating stability, status, financial security and property) is becoming outdated unless you want children (and even then it's not necessary) because regardless of gender nowadays it's possible to build your own empire... | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/25/2008 8:00:32 AM | DJ -
"I think women do accept men for who they are, they always have - nowadays tho, a lot of women realize they don't have to live with it, as they might have years ago. The days of trying to change men are in the past...a lot of us would rather stay single, or find someone who fits the bill than stay where it's not working and change anything."
I think you've nailed it. I would only add that in a loving relationship, two people might try very hard to change - to the best of their abilities at least. But ultimately, don't we all feel that we have a right to be who we are? Why should he change if the missionary position is what feels best for him? And the answer is, he shouldn't. But she doesn't have to accept it either.
Here's where it gets murky for me. She's told him, we assume with love, that she would like to explore a deeper sexuality. He says, ok, but is not capable of it. Now what? She moves on, he pleads with her to give it another try, insists he can change, and perhaps even believes it himself, but nothing changes and they are back to the ol missionary spot, his comfort zone again. Now what? She either accepts "who he is" or moves on. I don't see any other choices, do you? | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/25/2008 8:12:02 AM | | This missionary sex discussion is off topic, but what the hell: if you found yourself in a totally satisfactory relationship except for the fact that your partner has a "missionary position only" quirk, does that amount to a dealbreaker? Personally, I like lots of other sexual positions, but if my partner were healthy, intelligent, I was attracted to her beauty, she treated me well, she was funny, we did lots of fun things outside of sexual intercourse, I guess I'd "settle". | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/25/2008 8:15:41 AM | | Bikeman (OT: I always envision a weird super hero-- part man, part bike) I'm not sure that I'd make the same decision. I don't know. Sex and romance are the things that, for me, separate relationships from friendships. Those, again-- for me, are huge things in the relationship... because, for the sake of being redundant, without them we might as well just be friends. | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/25/2008 8:17:14 AM | ""..your partner has a "missionary position only" quirk..."
Is that called a "Limited Partnership/Company"? lol lol lol
Can we get back on topic (Opost)?
Why men don´t want to get committed these days?
Because they value Freedom. And many women do as well. People have died fighting for freedom! | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/25/2008 8:20:01 AM | What legal issues? You can commit without marrying! As long as both people work keep themselves up no one will suffer if it goes to hell.
Too many people rush into marriage relationships. People need to be picky! | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/25/2008 8:21:50 AM | | When someone "commits", he/she commits to thick and thin. And since most do not intend to keep that, why commit in the firstplace? It is IMO more honest not to! | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/25/2008 8:22:40 AM | Sorry, but I DO think this is on topic. The missionary position is just a euphamism for ANY deal-breaker circumstance in a relationship - I just borrowed an analogy stated from another poster because I thought it simplified things. Insert any fundamental philosophical difference instead, no pun intended.
The OP has asked why men don't want to commit and subsequent posters have suggested women are also reluctant to do so. I think one of the reasons is that when we come to deal-breaker issues, issues we have tried to work through and cannot resolve, issues that we cannot live with, we need to make an exit. Generations ago, most men and women just put up and shut up. Today, we have alternatives at our disposal that make it harder to stay than it is to go. | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/25/2008 8:32:21 AM | some people want the whole traditional marriage and kids thing, but overall the concept of marriage (which was more about creating stability, status, financial security and property) is becoming outdated unless you want children (and even then it's not necessary) because regardless of gender nowadays it's possible to build your own empire...
Thats what it comes down when you peel back the layers. Women don't want men anymore because they don't see a need for them. Humans need humans. Denying that is just folly. Thinking otherwise means Bye-Bye society. Exactly how does this line of thinking or the lack of compromise evident in it have to do with forming healthy societies -- much less healthy marriages?
On the contrary I think women do accept men for who they are - maybe too well, they always have - nowadays tho, a lot of women realize they don't have to live with it, as they might have years ago. The days of trying to change men are in the past...a lot of us would rather stay single, or find someone who fits the bill than stay where it's not working and change anything
So what about when a man does not want to put up with a women's negative behaviors? So men have become window dressing. Either a trophy or an amusement. Like a pet dog or cat that you just have put down when you no longer like its company.
The thing I find most amusing about all of these complaints about "how men are" is the big social push in the late 1980's and in the 1990's to make men "more sensitive" and let the typical gruff competitive male that much of male culture creates. So a lot of men rose to that challenge and read all those so called self help books on being better lovers, husbands, fathers, etc. Now popular female culture has rejected all of that thinking and says men should go back to being gruff, aggressive, and competitive to be good providers, assertive in the bedroom, responsible members of their community, yadda yadda.
Point is ladies you are not happy with the way men are, yet men in general are sensitive to what women want and do make genuine attempts to fulfill that role. Yet now because nothing we do is supposedly right women are againt talking about how they dont need men at all. This is the same old cycle of destructive female rejection of male society showing up in public thought again. When exactly is this nonsense suppose to stop?
Do you not see any of the hypocrisy in how you think or what you say?
It is a valid question that when women answer it reveals a lot about how they think. Don't get me wrong - this is not a statement of blame. That would be pointless at this stage of the game. What I am saying is that as an outsider to society it is easy to see these trends in female thinking, and the long-term faults that evolve out of it. It's far too much like a rejection of all things male, and that as a result men are now nothing less then third class citizens who are less valued in the general culture then criminals and mental children. How exactly is this the equality that so many women claim is needed in a working social equation?
Then you wonder why we do not want to get into marriage type relationships with women who seem to think this way. Good god are all women really this blind?
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/25/2008 8:43:40 AM |
Sorry, but I DO think this is on topic. The missionary position is just a euphamism for ANY deal-breaker circumstance in a relationship - I just borrowed an analogy stated from another poster because I thought it simplified things. Insert any fundamental philosophical difference instead, no pun intended.
I agree it's on topic, but I'll take it further and say that it doesn't even have to be a euphemism to be on topic.
Problems in the bedroom can be both indicators of problems elsewhere....as well as the cause of problems elsewhere.
If one person wants more than just 'missionary position' and the other is refusing to budge on this...the other person is not getting what they need to be content within the relationship and that will surely cause problems. Sex is a big part of relationships and if I was in a relationship with a woman and we weren't sexually compatible?
Yeah, that's a dealbreaker....but it should be a dealbreaker for both people.
If I was with a woman and she wanted me to do something...that I refused to do...I would expect it to be a problem for her and if she chose to leave...it would be understandable.
As to why men won't commit? There's a million reasons why ANYONE won't commit and it can't be narrowed down to one thing.
If YOUR man won't commit...then you need to sit down and communicate with him and find out why. His reason...is different than another man's.
But witholding sex until marriage to GET someone to commit?
That's just straight-up game playing. | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/25/2008 8:53:25 AM |
Thats what it comes down when you peel back the layers. Women don't want men anymore. Bye-Bye society. Exactly how does this line of thinking or the lack of compromise evident in it have to do with forming healthy societies -- much less healthy marriages?
There's a big difference between healthy formed societies and healthy marriages - since marriage was about function, community and raising children - it wasn't always fun for the couple itself...unless they worked hard to find in each other some reason to make it fun, or "learned to love" as I heard so much as a kid growing up. The couple that was suited for each other in every other way and actually did love each other was an added unplanned bonus...and probably became the 50, 60, 70 year marriages people always talk about witnessing and wanting to have. Pure luck. Now people get to choose who they want to be with - some aren't choosing BEYOND that attraction, and that's a side effect, but we now don't have to stay with someone who's not good or matched for us if there's no happiness in staying.
So what about when a man does not want to put up with a women's negative behaviors? So men have become window dressing. Either a trophy or an amusement. Like a pet dog or cat that you just have put down when you no longer like its company.
What kind of people do you know? I'll try not to emotionally react to this - being an animal lover, I would NEVER adopt a pet that I didn't expect to take care of their entire lifespan - I adopt em at 2 months old and keep them over 14 years. Anyone who puts down a pet because they don't feel like being bothered is a sick fvck, and that's all I am going to say about that. People who don't want a pet for the sake of the pet shouldn't have em...the companionship is a nice enjoyable part of it, but it's not the purpose - just as having children should be about the children, not to fill a void for the parents. End of story. If you've felt like you were treated as a pet in a past relationship, then you should have made better choices, but don't project "pet" theories on women you don't know.
Also, pets and SO's aren't even in the same ballpark - last I checked the men I dated fed themselves, had jobs, places to live, social lives and didn't need care from me, I don't date men so I can take care of them, or so they can take care of me - they're independently able to do so, just like myself.
The thing I find most amusing about all of these complaints about "how men are" is the big social push in the late 1980's and in the 1990's to make men "more sensitive" and let the typical gruff competitive male that much of male culture creates. So a lot of men rose to that challenge and read all those so called self help books on being better lovers, husbands, fathers, etc. Now popular female culture has rejected all of that thinking and says men should go back to being gruff, aggressive, and competitive to be good providers, assertive in the bedroom, responsible members of their community, yadda yadda.
I think it's evident in these types of threads that men think there are only two extremes we want from a man - how about being MORE sensitive but not a doormat? How about being ambitious rather than aggressive? Why NOT be assertive in the bedroom? Don't you want to participate in your own sex life? The answer is, you can be all of those things at different times. Women wanted a nicer guy - if men took that to the ultimate extreme and we now want them to center a bit more, how's that our fault?
Point is ladies you are not happy with the way men are, yet men in general are sensitive to what women want and do make genuine attempts to fulfill that role. Yet now because nothing we do is supposedly right women are againt talking about how they dont need men at all.
Need to survive? No...do we want them in our lives? Yes - but not as either subservient men or controlling ones...just equals. I personally want a parallel relationship...if I can be in one where I still have my freedom and do what I want when I want, then I'll bite. The only guy that can do that for me is one who values HIS space and has his own life. Leaning on someone and being involved does not equal losing who we are...if it does, I'll pass.
Do you not see any of the hypocrisy in how you think or what you say?
No, but I do see the strong reaction to how you're taking what you think I've said.
It is a valid question that when women answer it reveals a lot about how they think. This is not a statement of blame. That would be pointless at this stage of the game. What I am saying is that as an outsider to society it is easy to see these trends in female thinking, and the long-term faults that evolve out of it. It's far too much like a rejection of all things male, and that as a result men are now nothing less then third class citizens who are less valued in the general culture then criminals and mental children.
That's a REALLY extreme reaction to what's been said here...I don't see anyone saying anything like that.
Then you wonder why we do not want to get into marriage type relationships with women who seem to think this way. Good god are all women really this blind?
Women who think this way generally would agree with you and not want marriage either, so they're not blind at all - I don't see the problem. Women are saying they understand, they agree, there are some that are not for it either. That's not good enough either, is it? | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/25/2008 9:13:47 AM | Too right. You should not get married at all if you know in your heart that you plan to demand that your partner accept "unacceptable" behaviour once the honeymoon is over because you also know it's a plan that will probably fail.
Most people have the means these days that they don't have to accept persistent "unacceptable" behaviour and if they did they'd only get slammed for letting themselves be treated as a doormat anyway. That goes for both men and women in and out of the bedroom of course. | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/25/2008 9:42:32 AM | think women do accept men for who they are, they always have - nowadays tho, a lot of women realize they don't have to live with it, as they might have years ago. The days of trying to change men are in the past...a lot of us would rather stay single, or find someone who fits the bill than stay where it's not working and change anything."
So are we now allowed to be ourselves now, thanks, glad that's over. | |
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