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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/23/2008 1:25:19 PM | ^^^^^I think that mindset is easier for a guy to have. If a woman wants to think about having a child/family - she doesn't necessarily have the luxury of just going with the flow forever. Once you get to be to 40-41, as a woman, the risks of having a child (and even the ability to get pregnant/not miscarry) are greater....whereas, a guy can play around for years, into his 50's if he wants, and if he wants to have a child, he can simply find someone who's young enough to have a child. So in this respect, yes - a woman has to consider whether she's being strung along.......because you can't turn back the (biological) clock.
Some people are looking for more than just someone to hang out with and have a good time with. If you're a woman and you're looking to find the right guy to settle down and have a child/family with, you don't have the luxury of spending endless years going nowhere. | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/23/2008 1:30:36 PM | I just can't stand to watch the blood spurting from the forum version of what happened to William Wallace, except he wasn't pissy. O! The horror! The horror!
Quoting William Wallace (well, at least Mel Gibson's heroic version), it boils down to many men like this: FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOM!
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/23/2008 1:31:10 PM |
Well as far as being raked over the coals in a divorce settlement, can't a person take reasonable steps, proactively, to help lessen the chances? Yes, but all one can do is LESSEN the risk. Certainly not eliminate it. I know several guys who didn't cheat on his wife, he treat his wife well, the wife cheats, then she initiates the divorce, and takes the guys money.  It happens. I've read that technically pre-nups aren't really legal documents. Meaning even if a guy is reasonable and proactive, gets a signed pre-nup, it doesn't necessarily hold up in divorce court.
This unfortunately is the world men and women live in.
Some women are actually pretty successful and stand to potentially lose more than some men! (not to sound arrogant). This is certainly possible, but historically this doesn't happen very often. The courts really are tilted against men and toward giving women favorable divorce settlements whether she truly deserves it or not. Sad but true. | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/23/2008 1:36:06 PM | I've read that technically pre-nups aren't really legal documents. Meaning even if a guy is reasonable and proactive, gets a signed pre-nup, it doesn't necessarily hold up in divorce court.
If that's the case, I'd tell the courts/judge "Hey, I've done what I was suppose to do."
And then, on protest, I'd disobey the courts and still take my crap and leave if I have to. In fact, I'd probably skip the country. (That is if I didn't have kids). | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/23/2008 1:52:52 PM | wutz,
I'm all for marriage. It's great when it works out, and in theory, I'm not commitment-phobic.
However, in my case, I married my ex-wife a year after we met. I didn't want to tie the knot that soon, but against my better judgement I did. And in hindsight, I wish I'd waited... because there were aspects of her personality that didn't develop until shortly thereafter that would have made me reconsider the decision.
She was an excellent girlfriend, but did not make a good wife. I wouldn't have traded the time we spent together (both pre- and post-marriage) for anything, but in the end, I should have waited. If I had broken up with her, though, that would not have made me 'all talk'. It just meant that I wouldn't have rushed into something that ultimately was a very bad experience, and could have been avoided.
S.
Oh, and when I say "in theory", I mean that I'd *like* to commit to the right woman but I have yet to meet her. Everyone I even consider giving my heart to just winds up hurting me in the end. It's honestly better to just 'play'. You don't get what you want, exactly, but you do get more than you'd have otherwise, which is... nothing. | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/23/2008 2:07:53 PM | | WonkaBar -- just curious, what made her a great girlfriend but not a great wife? I'm just trying to understand this. Why wasn't she a great wife? What changed about her by going from girlfriend to wife? | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/23/2008 2:46:51 PM | Wonkabar,
"If there is a (sexual) smorgasboard, then there's a bouncer who's not letting me get near the table."
That's the best one I've seen on this thread! Thanks for the laugh.
grkboy - thanks for your comments. It gives me hope when I express myself and men step forward and agree instead of trying to find the one point that they can disagree with. In many ways, men and women are more similar than not - and you just proved it. I know what you mean about sticking around and trying to be supportive and nurture them through whatever evils they are battling, I've done that as well. In the end, people are who they are. You staying with them through all that bad behaviour is almost tacit endorsement of it - you're saying "hey, it's ok to treat me like shit, I'll still be here for you." We think our love and support will show them the light, but all it does is embolden them to engage in more of the same. | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/23/2008 2:48:57 PM | ^^^^very true!
In the end, people are who they are. You staying with them through all that bad behaviour is almost tacit endorsement of it - you're saying "hey, it's ok to treat me like shit, I'll still be here for you." We think our love and support will show them the light, but all it does is embolden them to engage in more of the same. | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/23/2008 3:04:15 PM | wutznot2love,
well, here's my sad theory. In the long term relationships I have had since I divorced 14 years ago, it was, in each and every instance, the man who raised the topic of marriage, commitment, settling down with me, there would be no other, there had never been anyone like me, blah blah blah. That's what I like to call 'the hook.' That's what they say to get you to be exclusive to them.
If they genuinely like you, they really are not even remotely comfortable with the idea of you dating anyone else. Even if the relationship has not become intimate yet, but certainly once it has (another good reason for women to delay that part of the relationship -- not because we're dangling it like a carrot, but because for many women, once we are intimate, we are committed on some level at least. And for most men, not so much).
So there you are, intimate and invested in a relationship that you have been purposely led to believe has the potential to be the committed relationship you have been seeking. What happens next? 'the backpedal.'
That's the phase of the relationship where all talk of marriage and future kind of become very vague and hypothetical, with a lot of 'time will tell' thrown in to the discussion. That's where you're in a big limbo, trying to reconcile what he said early on with how he is behaving now.
Some women stay here in limbo for years. I guess it depends on the value of the relationship and the amount of time you have to give it. For women who have not had children yet, but yearn to, this can be excruciating. And for the men who genuinely love them, let's be fair here, the thought of giving her that gift is fraught with all of the insecurities of being a good husband/father/provider that will definitely encroach on his 'freedom' going forward. Not a step to be taken lightly. Of course, the fact that many men refuse to talk about it with their female partner only heightens her insecurity over it. So at that point, it really is a judgement call, and don't be afraid to make the call. Because it IS your call. You can love someone very much, and still choose not to be with them, because your goals and attitudes are just too different for it to ever work. And you can end things respectfully, leaving each free to find what they really want. He may discover that it's you after all, but that can't be the motivation for departing. Leave before exasperation and bitterness set in. Leave with love. But leave. | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/23/2008 3:13:05 PM |
WonkaBar -- just curious, what made her a great girlfriend but not a great wife? I'm just trying to understand this. Why wasn't she a great wife? What changed about her by going from girlfriend to wife?
Though I'm not wankabar, I'd like to make a note on this topic.
Women, well... people, in general have to remember a lot of us have seem more than the other. Personally I've watched my mother go through 7 marriages. I've seen the guys who 'love themselves more than anyone else' - I've seen the guys who 'love their dog more than other people' - I've seen the ones who think it's OK to hit a woman when they argue..
Here's what I've learned.
A lot of men are ready, but a lot of men won't admit it. Same goes for women, exact same thing. On the same coin, however, a large number of men and women want it but wouldn't know what to do with it when they got there.
When I'm finally ready to get married this is what I'm going to look for :
1) stable home environment (Both in my field and the womans)
2) stable financial environment
3) communication
4) trust (more on this one later)
5) friendship
6) having my own life in track
I'm not going to go beyond myself here and say that a bunch of men are good guys and we're just not treated right, but I will take the even road here and say that plenty of men and women both don't know how to play this game nowadays.
The main thing that's missing is usually number 4 and 5. People get into relationships because of physical attraction and lust in todays age, then wonder why the emotional relationship fails. Emotional relationships, the ones that are born from friendship and trust, are the ones that succeed and end up in marriage. You need to be able to let your partner do things without you butting your nose in, and if you have a friend then you know they have your best interest in mind. | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/23/2008 3:15:42 PM | I can't vision a young man or woman, someone your age not wanting to diversify his/ her portfolio in the relationship forums that are at a constant spiral upwards or with life in general. There is so much to do at that age that does not require the involvement of another person. At your age I was travelling the world alone and preferred it that way.
Commitment without having completed school or having at least accomplished a few short term goals I would think could be disastrous in someones personal life. Get out there and experience what you are capable of without that need for commitment at least not yet.
I'm not sure but I do believe the demographics have changed so drastically that these researchers can't even keep up with today's trends, which are already of tomorrows concerns. Most peoples lives change so much in during these young ages that nothing , I believe nothing can be cast in stone ,not even comitment, it's really chasing something you can't see, but banging into it around every corner only to look up and its gone again. | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/23/2008 3:21:05 PM | WonkaBar -- just curious, what made her a great girlfriend but not a great wife? I'm just trying to understand this. Why wasn't she a great wife? What changed about her by going from girlfriend to wife?
It's a fair question, and there were two things.
The first is that she was a neat freak, and I am not. I simply was not capable of keeping things tidy enough for her, which meant that she was constantly picking up after me and eventually began to resent it. I did try to work with her, and did do my best to not make messes, or to clean stuff up on my own, but it was simply never enough, and eventually I got tired of spending my weekends doing housework.
The second is that once we were married, my financial success suddenly became both of our concerns rather than just mine, and monetary success was extremely important to her - so much so that I eventually found out that one of the reasons she wanted to marry me was because I was working a well-paying job at the time. To make a long story short, my career took a slump and she began to resent me for that, too.
She was a sweet, loving, caring, intelligent, secure woman - with standards so high that no one could meet them for very long on a 24/7 basis. Stuff like that doesn't become a problem until you start living together. | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/23/2008 3:29:30 PM | | People are never ready for change,or do they expect it. Case in point, Wonka ,I am a firm believer in marriage counseling, they really make you put everything out there, questions most would never ask or are to scared to, similar to your situation, loss of a job. I feel for people in these situations that they should have never been in the first place, I hope for you a much brighter future and a nice life. | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/23/2008 3:30:09 PM | "She was a sweet, loving, caring, intelligent, secure woman - with standards so high that no one could meet them for very long on a 24/7 basis. Stuff like that doesn't become a problem until you start living together."
Well - I didn't know her so I'll have to take your word for it, although personally I have trouble with the 'secure' characterization. A secure woman makes her own income, and a damn good one at that. And while she's delighted that you're doing the same, and thrilled when you buy her gifts with it, a secure woman is focused on making her own and less on your 'stack.' | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/23/2008 3:36:24 PM |
Because they are scared, men still want to play the field and don't want to be a one's women man
I'm gonna have to call you out on this one. I personally know a lot of young guys looking for the long term. It has a lot to do with the other person in the relationship, time span spent together, wants, needs and desires of the people - and I don't think it's really fair to cut it all up to men being scared. | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/23/2008 3:45:42 PM | Well - I didn't know her so I'll have to take your word for it, although personally I have trouble with the 'secure' characterization. A secure woman makes her own income, and a damn good one at that. And while she's delighted that you're doing the same, and thrilled when you buy her gifts with it, a secure woman is focused on making her own and less on your 'stack.'
Perhaps, but this is where cultural differences came into play. She was a Chinese national, and in her neck of the woods, a man is defined by his job - so when I lost mine it was a huge embarassment to her family. So much so that she didn't tell her parents for a long time. At one point I was struggling very hard working odd jobs... she did make her own income, and a 'damn good one at that' - but she was A) frustrated that she wasn't 'gaining' on her boss, who was a self-made millionaire, and B) that I wasn't able to keep up with her.
Again, I'm not saying she was right or wrong (I'm sure none of you ladies would have enjoyed supporting a man who was, at one point, working in a pool store), just that those points of view do not make a good wife for someone who was in my position. To her credit, she put up with it a lot longer than I expected her to, looking back.
Because they are scared, men still want to play the field and don't want to be a one's women man
You're wrong, and if you need proof, look right here. I've given up trying to find someone online, and everyone I meet offline just wants to 'have fun'. | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/23/2008 3:54:26 PM | Sometimes people have it backwards. They decide "I'm ready for a relationship" then try to find someone to plug into their "readiness".
Noone fits anyone's "mold" of what they usually either want or feel the "right one" would be like. I believe there's definitely dealbreakers, things we can't or even shouldn't live with as doing so would make both people miserable.
That being said, noone really knows what the "mesh" of two people that truly care for each other and accept each other will evolve into. Being not too rigid about expectations, timetables, agendas...any of that will force a situation needlessly.
If your heads firmly set...I want to get married, I DON'T want to get married, then you should make that clear up front. Doesn't leave much room for flexibility or seeing how things develop, but people want what they want. I think things tend to flow much more naturally when it's a more "hands off" approach and the relationship grows at its own pace and time.  | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/23/2008 4:01:06 PM | Wonkabar,
Yes, I see where cultural differences would have made your situation quite different from the one I hypothesized. I am sorry for your experience. You sound like a very understanding and forgiving guy - not carrying a whole lot of baggage around that experience. That is admirable.
I once worked with a Chinese national (in broadcasting) who had practically been disowned by his family for taking a degree in English. I guess it is considered a colossal waste of time in that culture, as are most pursuits that don't involve making a lot of money. We often see that with so-called third world cultures too . I"m not being critical, but I guess when you don't have much and you come to a country where hard work can get you so much more than you ever dreamed possible, they just go after it. Canadians, on the other hand, tend to think the government should get that for us LOL. | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/23/2008 4:19:27 PM | I disagree totally. The reason why men don't want to get married is because women have been so conditioned to beleive they don't need a man. For a man to want to marry a woman, he first needs to feel needed. Sex can be had anywhere, for all. Being needed is essential for a man. We love to feel we are the protector and the provider. Today's woman is an expert at letting the man know he is not needed and she can take care of herself.
Denying anyone sex is a sure way to else them to someone who won't deny it. Never use sex in any way other than to show someone how much you care about them, it's a powerful act that can be easily used as a weapon.
My 2 sense.
Lawrence
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/23/2008 4:22:31 PM |
The reason why men don't want to get married is because women have been so conditioned to beleive they don't need a man. For a man to want to marry a woman, he first needs to feel needed. Sex can be had anywhere, for all. Being needed is essential for a man. We love to feel we are the protector and the provider. Today's woman is an expert at letting the man know he is not needed and she can take care of herself.
Needed as in how? So what should a successful, stable, independent (obviously she'd need to be able to look after herself) woman do? - according to your theory, she'd be screwed unless of course she "pretends" she's a fragile, needy little dingaling who just can't survive without a man to rescue her? | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/23/2008 4:28:34 PM | Denying anyone sex is a sure way to else them to someone who won't deny it. Never use sex in any way other than to show someone how much you care about them, it's a powerful act that can be easily used as a weapon.
Totally agree with what the gentleman said. When you start "using" sex or anything else you will come to realize it can be used against you, too. A man that you cared about withholding his affection and tenderness becuase you're denying him sex would be a sad thing. You'd both lose out. 
The whole needed/wanted debate will rage on for eternity. Wanted, needed, whichever term you care to use, it's important for the person IN your life to feel that they're important and hold a special place in your life and heart that noone else does.
Apologize for the double post....OOPS!! | |
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| Why men don´t want to get committed these days
Posted: 5/23/2008 4:29:14 PM | I disagree totally. The reason why men don't want to get married is because women have been so conditioned to beleive they don't need a man. For a man to want to marry a woman, he first needs to feel needed. Sex can be had anywhere, for all. Being needed is essential for a man. We love to feel we are the protector and the provider. Today's woman is an expert at letting the man know he is not needed and she can take care of herself.
Men seriously have to choose a side on this already.
Men want a woman who won't take them to the cleaners in a divorce. Women who are independent and don't need a man to survive (not conditioning, more like fact these days) won't take you to the cleaners because they already make their own money and don't need yours. So in order to protect yourself, on the contrary you should seek a woman who doesn't need you - as she won't try to extract from you what she needed you for in the marriage should it dissolve. Ironically, these women don't usually see the point in marrying anyway (myself as an example) because marriage has in the past been about merging home/family and security/stability. Now both genders are capable of all on their end...so it's silly to think in old fashioned terms.
On the other hand, if you want a woman who does need you (need in her terms = means of survival) - then you're inevitably going to have to hand over your wallet in one way or another. Women who feel they need a man are the ones you're technically trying to avoid (when it comes to losing what you've worked for), because they are the ones who don't have a solid foundation of finances, property, etc already or may not wish to build on what they have once married...therefore your stuff is at risk should you legally entangle yourself to her.
In order for a woman NOT to go after what you have, she has to have the same as or more than you do and be afraid to lose it. You cannot ideally find a woman who both needs you and takes care of herself simultaneously. You can either look for a woman who needs you so you can take care of her, or a woman who pulls her own weight and doesn't need to be taken care of.
Make up your mind which one you want, and suck up the downside of that choice. Or...just don't date. | |
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