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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 6/6/2008 5:04:03 PM | keyzguy369,
First of all, remove the boat and the cobra from your profile. You are sending the wrong message and will consequently attract the wrong women. Secondly, why not just offer to meet at a coffee shop? That way you can size up the date in a casual environment without spending a lot of money. And if your date don't agree with that since it would be deemed another "cheap" suggestion, then count yourself lucky you did not spend a dime on that golddigger!! | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 6/6/2008 6:05:31 PM |
Consider that there are just some things you don't know that you don't know.
Good advice. Try taking it.
Do you know that the Dalai Llama is a tantric?
Do I care? | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 6/6/2008 7:35:01 PM | ( I am posting this here as well as on this thread [Are US males being taken for granted? ]... since they are so related.. forgive me )
What I don't get is why there are so many women on here complaining about this thread when they say that they would expect a man to do this or that.. then complain when he does just that... wtf..?
Anyway.. here is my take on all of this.
Men -
Man 1: Pays for everything, acts like a gentleman and expects a woman to lay with him on the first date.. then when he gets what he wants.. he is down the road.
Man 2: Pays for everything and expects nothing in return, acts like a gentleman and doesn't expect anything.. and usually doesn't get anything, other than the company of a nice woman.
Man 3: Acts like an ass.. expects everything but gives nothing. Looser
Women -
Woman 1: Dates a man in order to get stuff for free.. be that a meal.. or whatever else that you do for a date. Going to the movies.. doesn't matter. These women expect a man to pay for everything.
Woman 2: Does not want a man to pay for anything.. they would rather pay themselves so they feel that the man doesn't EXPECT anything of them.. IE.. sex.
Woman 3: Doesn't mind going dutch but would like to have the man be a gentleman in every other way.
My take:
I have dated all these women... and personally, I am of the opinion that most men have come to. I am just not going to date anymore... at least not anytime soon.
I don't know about other men.. but in my area. Most of the women have fallen into catagory one. At least that is what I see.
I don't think there is anything wrong with dating some one that can bring the same things to the table.. ie.. a good job... makes the same amount of money that the woman does. Has the same believes and values.. nothing wrong with that.
For me.. I owe child support.. I have a fairly decent job. But with child support and all the normal bills that come with life... there isn't a whole lot left over at the end of the month. Like most people.. both women and men alike.
Yet.. most women expect that men to pay all the time.. here in lies the problem.. at least for me. If I dated as much as I would like.. trying to find the ONE... then that becomes a huge problem. I can not afford to spend that kind of money and quite frankly.. why should I? If the woman has a job.. which I don't date women that do not have a job.. just as I would not expect a woman to date me if I were unemployed.. then why should she or I pay the whole bill.. doesn't make sense to me.
If you are the type of woman that demands that the man pays.. just out of Chiverals attitude.. then that just tells me that you are out for a free meal... so be it.
I just choose not to do that. I have many qualities that (I) think some one of the opposite sex would find attractive.. just not money. But.. here I am single. I know we all can't appeal to everyone and I don't expect to.
I am handsome, a little over weight.. but not obese by any means. Find me a woman that is my age that is in great shape!? NOT going to happen. At least not for the majority. I have been told that I am a gentleman... I do all the gentlemanly things.. ie .. open the door.. am respectfull... and all that. I just choose not to buy the dinners... again.. why would you?
IT's a double standard.. women want to be equal.. well.. buy the men the dinners then? lol Of course that isn't going to happen.. cause those types of women will continue to call us whinney men that don't want to be a gentleman.... whatever. Lets see how much money you end up spending at the end of the month TRYING to find the one.
I am happy being single... I don't NEED some one in my life.. would I like to be in a relationship? Sure.. who wouldn't. But not at the expense of being broke at the end of the month cause of all the dinners I spent on undeserving women.
So.. as some women have stated.. then why do it... you have a choice. That's right.. we do. And I choose to NOT date... and just enjoy my freedom.
As far as the sex goes.. I don't NEED a woman for sex. 6 times out of 10, my hand is much better anyway. Not that that can't be taught.. just saying. All the money that I was shelling out for dates could be spent on hookers if that was all that I wanted. So.. instead.. I will live with pleasing myself... at least I can. Don't need any batteries for that either! lol
Not trying to be nasty.. just telling it like I see it.
Do I have high expectations in finding a mate!? I don't think so.
All I ask is that someone make as much money as I do... so that we can both enjoy doing at least some of the things that you can do around my area. Be respectful, be in at least as good as shape as I am in... I don't expect some flat tummy fine model.. in fact, most models are nasty in my eyes anyway.. wayyy too skinny for my tastes. Not much else really.. looks are somewhat important.. but looks are only a small part of it IMO.. in fact, most of the women that I have met that are really good looking, in my eyes, are total beotches. They think that the world OWES them something just because they were born with beauty.. and will most likely be alone or just attracting the kind of guys that will use and abuse them. But hey.. that's their deal.. not mine.
just some other dudes opinion..... :drink: | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 6/6/2008 11:14:35 PM |
keep in mind the poster is referencing a tv show which naturally takes one side of anything to the extreme end of the spectrum
find me a television show where a man is married to a woman and she either a) doesnt call all the shots in the house or b) doesnt give him major flak for doing things he enjoys. go ahead, I'll be waiting.
no one in their right mind is looking for a "project" as is implied above
Then why have I seen nothing but change in the hundreds of married men I have been friends with or worked with? Why do guys who have never picked up a hoe before are now become master hortoculturists? Why do guys who previously did things as innocently as play a round of golf or go to a single baseball game have to do favors for their wife when they get home to make up for their "bad decision making"
I kid you not these are the kinds of things I have seen and continue to see. It's of course not everyone. But it is a whole heck of a lot of them
anything worthwhile is worth real effort and work
I'm not saying its not worthwhile. I am saying getting married has caused a lot of change in a lot of guys. It seems like the infamous "honey-do" list gets mixed up in the vows somehow. I'm saying I'm one of the guys the OP is talking about, kinda. I have certain things I like to do (golf, watch games on TV, read, workout) and won't change that for a woman. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 6/7/2008 9:20:36 AM | well, to start- thanks for letting me vent some frustration. i'll step down from my soap box now.your comment "the more we clarify what we want and need and so on--" made me think.i realize that i might be putting too much emphasis on something more long term and committed.this is a "dating" site and i probably should not expect everyone to fit into my beliefs.the few people that i have talked to have just come across as noncommittal, i think thats the fault of the quote-"vastness of cyberspace", not the people.thanks again- | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 6/9/2008 5:36:19 PM |
Why haven't I been trying to date or "find someone"? Most of the reason is that since I started pursuing women in my life (age 16), it's been nothing but one bad experience after the next. One flake after the next. One rejection after the next. One wishy-washy "I don't know what I want" female after the next. The sheer amount of women I've met who basically choose to be with horrible abusive men over anyone who would be good to them alone pushed me.
I hate hearing these types of stories because I've never been interested in ***holes or being treated like dirt. Not all women reject nice guys for ***holes. I've rejected nice guys because I didn't feel chemistry. My first boyfriend turned into a jerk but he wasn't to begin with. I was 19 so I was allowed to make a mistake like that but I've never dated someone who was mean to me the way he was.
I expect to be treated with respect and I won't settle for less. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 6/10/2008 10:31:21 AM |
And now I am done! The ultimate male chauvinist PIG, will wait for any responses and FEILD, them as they come in... seeing as I don't have A DATE,this evening the least I can do is accommodate you, and your questions????
Dude, the one constant on all that you have said and they have not responded is you. And quite frankly there are a couple of issues NOT working for you. Let's start with the materialistic stuff. If all you have to offer, or to show is the boats, the money, how much this that and the other cost all you are going to attract is women who are gold diggers. Nothing more. Second, if you are buying the women drinks, dinners and all that. Again, you will attract a particular type of women that will take you for all that, then tell you that she wants to go slow in a relationship, only to meet Tony at the hotel and fvck his brains out. And by the way, Tony doesn't make much, will not buy her drinks or dinner, but doesn't put up with her crap.
So who would you rather be? Tony who gets women to sleep with him. Or the guy with the big boat that women use. Hmmm. Now, you can change all that. But first you have to come to terms that doing what you are doing has not worked, and guess what, it ain't going to work in the future either. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 6/10/2008 10:38:55 AM | Is it a trend or indicative of people that choose not to be serial daters. They all say they are not dating but if they met a woman who knocked their socks off, are they also saying that they are confirmed bachelors that would walk away?
If it is indicative of a trend I suspect that it illustrates that many people are growing up and realizing they would rather be by themselves than the wrong person just to be with someone. It is often when people are in these modes that they do find someone that is actually who and what they want, the not looking for anything deal. Perhaps because they are not in a dating mode and actively looking they are able to see what is under their nose.
Did you talk about whether they would shy away from a relationship if the right woman presented herself? | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 6/10/2008 11:26:15 AM | What a read this blog is. Too many people stuck on,,,, something. I would recommend to most the posters here that they should not date. Why not pull yourself out of it?
Packagedealx3, that, I think, is a very astute observation. Growing up is hard to do, especially when the head is stuck in the muddled mix.
But then, how would one identify the right woman? At school a couple of months ago, I was sitting there trying to figure out calculus, paused and looked around at the women in the room. Someone said ‘what are you doing, math or thinking about women?’ I said Both. On cue, a friend of mine looks at me and she says, ‘women are evil’. What do you say to that? I couldn’t really confirm or deny it. After reading through a lot of these posts and thinking about it, women really do behave that way often enough.
I have not been on a date in a few years and I am fine with that. I feel as packagedealx3 had mentioned; I would rather be alone than with the wrong person. I know that there are some good women out there, but at times it does feel like there are so very few to bother with hope.
What a dilemma huh? | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 6/10/2008 12:17:26 PM | Uh Oh, God talk follows, so if you don’t like it then please skip.
Here is a spin on this topic
If you think about it, it is the story of the biblical Eden. A woman, with her ignorance, destroyed the relationship between a man and god, his purity. So the man goes and thinks to himself ‘well shit’, why did she have to go and ruin a good thing? But he sticks with the woman because she is a part of him and he accepts his fate.
The only way to resist temptation is to deny it battle. To be a man, one must accept a woman for who she is, but not give in to her random tantrums of right and wrong or her many silly ideas.
Now for the rebuke.
Jesus had mentioned a bit, that if a woman were to become less ignorant, for lack of a better term, that this would be a good thing for the relationship between man and woman. Which is, I think, the way that our society is heading towards. I think that there is a lot of disequilibrium in our society as we grow as people, but it should settle in time.
*Disclaimer* all biblical talk in this post is of my own sortment and my own decipherment and may not be the actual views of the authors.
Written by Mr. Sits on rock with elbow on knee and chin on fist. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 6/10/2008 1:19:03 PM |
Dude, the one constant on all that you have said and they have not responded is you. And quite frankly there are a couple of issues NOT working for you. Let's start with the materialistic stuff. If all you have to offer, or to show is the boats, the money, how much this that and the other cost all you are going to attract is women who are gold diggers. Nothing more. Second, if you are buying the women drinks, dinners and all that. Again, you will attract a particular type of women that will take you for all that, then tell you that she wants to go slow in a relationship, only to meet Tony at the hotel and fvck his brains out. And by the way, Tony doesn't make much, will not buy her drinks or dinner, but doesn't put up with her crap.
So who would you rather be? Tony who gets women to sleep with him. Or the guy with the big boat that women use. Hmmm. Now, you can change all that. But first you have to come to terms that doing what you are doing has not worked, and guess what, it ain't going to work in the future either.
Why can't tony have a big........... boat? :P Seriously though, the poster is right on. If you don't know how to attract women, you will fail every time. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 6/10/2008 2:31:11 PM |
Is it a trend or indicative of people that choose not to be serial daters. They all say they are not dating but if they met a woman who knocked their socks off, are they also saying that they are confirmed bachelors that would walk away?
If it is indicative of a trend I suspect that it illustrates that many people are growing up and realizing they would rather be by themselves than the wrong person just to be with someone. It is often when people are in these modes that they do find someone that is actually who and what they want, the not looking for anything deal. Perhaps because they are not in a dating mode and actively looking they are able to see what is under their nose.
Did you talk about whether they would shy away from a relationship if the right woman presented herself?
Very well put! | |
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twkarl
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Joined: 4/28/2008
Msg: 264 | |
| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 6/10/2008 3:18:28 PM | | I think the trend has always been that a guy felt that he had to have a " mate" in his life to be complete. I know as I was coming up I found everyone telling me I had to have a wife and raise a family. I had to join the army because that was the way . Guess what ? when I stopped listening to other folks and listening to my heart and my own mind I discovered I was happier . and that my friends is the key. Be happy with ones self !!I go on occasional dates And yes I would love to find someone I could settle down and grow old and enjoy evening conversations with or take trips with . however I refuse to sacrifice my happiness for it. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 6/11/2008 9:19:03 AM |
I no longer choose to live that lifestyle, and it is by simple choice, not by necessity, and hopefully one day you will be in a financial position to understand the difference between choice, and necessity.
It sounds to me that your finances define your reality instead of your reality defining your finances. You have shackled yourself to a narrow reality of black and whites, thus not able to define your new reality and instead give up. But that has been your choice. And no matter what I say, also in your vast experience and perhaps arrogance, you will not even listen to any advice. My friend, you are doom then, for you can learn from the beggar, you can learn from the celibate, you can learn from the whore, as long as you are open.
I used the Tony metaphor not to indicate how many women you can bed in a week, or that life of sex, but to define a different aspect of a woman's psyche. This is defined by evolutionary physiology, in other words it's hard wired into their minds. Women seek unconsciously two things: good genes and/or a provider. The man she wants to reproduce with, fall in love with, is not always the same one that becomes the provider. The man she will sleep with is an emotional choice made by attraction, something that she feels as supposed to something the thinks. The provider type she choses rationally, with her mind, with objectivity. I've seen this over and over again where a man wine and dines a woman, buys her romantic trips around the world, drink champagne in Paris, go out on a boat and so forth, yet that same woman falls in love with the guy who didn't do any of that. And money has nothing to do with it, for in a case I know, the woman fell in love with the guy who owned a sail boat, still had plenty of money, but it was never about the money.
Now, however you present yourself to a woman, as the man that rocks her world, or the guy who buys her stuff it's up to you. Unfortunately you keep thinking that you are going to find that woman through buying her stuff. So you have pegged yourself to the way they will see you.
Again, this is not about how many women you can sleep with, but finding a woman that desires YOU, not your MONEY. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 6/16/2008 10:58:26 PM | | Miashakti, you're views on a relationship remind me of a great marriage. My sister & brother-in-law have that type. Their bodies age, yet their love deepens and seems to defy time. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 6/16/2008 11:10:22 PM | are you content with not dating?
.. I think that this choice is based on the individual... with no regards to the gender they belong to... | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 7/1/2008 9:28:34 AM | I found your comments interesting, so read your profile. There's an interesting contradiction between this discussion topic and that.....since you start with sex talk...and then quickly become abusive, as you list a series of details that are sure to turn you off.
Is it possible that men at this point in western society's "end game" have got themselves in an increasinly narrow space...a box in which on the one hand, all they really are interested in about a woman is sex...the old "chemistry" gambit.....BUT at the same time, they themselves are not too comfortable with sexuality, in all its human diversity?
Being a woman who prefers both sexual intimacy and loving companionship, as well as being a human being of considerable persistence and fortitude....I have met (briefly) a few of this tribe. Men who prefer to be alone, and celebate....do exist...but I think not as a "growing trend".
My analytic and experiencial guess is that if this group is growing, its because their expectations of the other are inordinately high....and their ability to appreciate difference, experience genuine interest in another human soul....and let their sexuality emerge naturally out of their pleasure in another's being, has had no chance to develop.
In short....men are picky and critical.........they assess women as you would a horse, a rather nasty "slave market" hang-over.
And on the other side of the coin: They avoid mirrors, especially the ones that reveal our own weaknesses...fears...and anxieties....so they can never genuinely open up to a bright woman, for fear she'll reciprocate with the nitpicking. In short, they aren't so hot in bed...never mind the snoring!!!
Sometimes, I think we all need remedial courses in being human, and treating other humans with respect and dignity....and I'm not leaving the female sex out of this. I have a friend on here...and I'm amazed by how often he's in bed with some woman the second or third date. When I asked him how this happens, and teasingly.."what its like to be a male slut?" he tells me usually its the ladies who initiate!!!!
How smart is that? | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 7/1/2008 9:52:41 AM | MESSAGE 52 - stevelfun
SO THAT WAS EVERY WOMAN ON THIS SITE THEN, YOU WERE NICE TO THEM ALL AND THEY ALL KICKED YOU IN THE D*CK?
Oh behave - not all women hate men being nice to them MAYBE YOU DATED THE WRONG WOMEN?
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And as for older men not liking women asking them not to change habits 'OP', well why should she not ask him to change if they are disgusting habits that he likes to do? We dont know what the habits were? Leads me to thinking.......
old men that live alone can lose some of the social skills that are normal when out in public but of course they wouldn't notice. check out the thread :- what made you go Ewww and bail on a date, the funniest thread ever, but cleanliness, hygiene, clean homes, and habits that have long since become normal are all mentioned. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 7/1/2008 10:04:45 AM | Weird thread this has become.
People seem to want to blame others for them not being what they expect them to be, rather than trying to change so that they, themselves, will fit someone ELSE's ideal. That is a choice, but don't pretend it's a happy one if you REALLY want a relationship. If you want to click with another human, you WILL have to change-- what you are doing now obviously isn't working.
To all the men who choose not to date any more, cool, go for it. Better to have you out of the dating pool than wasting my time, right? It's not punishing me, but I think you think it is, OP. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 7/1/2008 10:35:03 AM |
I have met (briefly) a few of this tribe. Men who prefer to be alone, and celebate....do exist...but I think not as a "growing trend".
Havana Nights. In your generation (baby boomers), this might not be an emerging trend as old traditional values still have a stronghold. However, in my generation and in particular the generation after the picture looks different. Women has enjoyed the spoils of the woman liberation and independency and now its the men's turn. In other words, liberation from social expectations and gender roles. That is creating a new "independent" man who do not feel the pressure of the old traditional expectations such as getting married or forming a family. Having that said, I would say that roughly 50-70% of the males I know (and its a lot) in the late 20's to early 40's have made it expressively clear that marriage will never be a consideration, not even with the right woman. So yes, it is a new social phenomenon. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 7/1/2008 11:21:05 AM |
Women has enjoyed the spoils of the woman liberation and independency and now its the men's turn. In other words, liberation from social expectations and gender roles. That is creating a new "independent" man who do not feel the pressure of the old traditional expectations such as getting married or forming a family.
LOL... you should read some of the other Threads... Many of which have women complaining that they are "old fashioned" and the Man should be the one to make the first move, should be the one to pick up the tab, should be the one to xxxxxx
The feminists of today have subverted the concept/ideals that were put into practice back in the 60's / 70's... Its gotten so bad, that many men are just retiring from it.
You can open the door for one woman, and get your head taken off with the freshly sharpened tongue of a modern woman feminist for being a chauvanist... She can open her own door... blah blah blah..
Same token, different side... Next time, you dont open the door... the woman thinks you a mannerless/classless fool.
The "spoils of womans liberation" has created more social strife and heartache, not only between Men and Women... but its pit women in direct competition with men. That somehow they are "less" if they do not prove themselves in the corporate world, as well as being a mom/wife and an integral part of the family unit...
Causes a lot of bitter women to be created.... and so... the men are just sick of it... give up trying to keep up..
Hopefully it will come full circle, and people will see the errors of it all. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 7/1/2008 11:38:18 AM |
Stunningly, well said
... and here you've been babbling about peace, love and harmony between the sexes yet agree with a blatantly sexist comment.
Ah, true colours eventually shine through.....
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 7/1/2008 12:13:13 PM |
... and here you've been babbling about peace, love and harmony between the sexes yet agree with a blatantly sexist comment.
Ah, true colours eventually shine through
I doubt it is intentionally. It’s just that the sword of hypocrisy has been swung for so long that they can no longer identify hypocrisy even when it is blatant. | |
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