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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/22/2008 4:55:17 PM | I agree with you . It kinda seems to me that women are so idolized that men have become subservient to them . I have had some good experiences on this site but also some very nasty ones. It seems like a power trip to have all these guys drool over them and they can reject us and be ignorant while doing so.
Why are these georgous women on here for years at a time ? God knows they probably get hundreds of messages a day. Is not one of these men good enough ?
Or is it just a game?
Having paid for the package already once I would not go into a serious relationship without a pre-nup.
I know girls that think they are just the hottest thing on 2 legs cause they are female. They have no training , skills or work ethic . Unless you consider shopping and maxing out credit cards a skill.
Most of these girls won't cook or clean.
I dated a girl that lived about 2 hours away. I would drive the 2 hours to come to see her after working 8 hours myself, get groceries for supper , cook supper myself
and if I was lucky she would do the dishes . This went on for months until i had enough and i dumped her. In 3 months she NEVER cooked me a dinner.
To be attractive as a female all that is required is you are not obese. Men on the other hand can be fit , good jobs , nice guys and still end up not attractive to the females.
My ex was very beautiful but a major byotch . It seems now the price is too high. We are getting treated like crap because we are men and its a joke.
I would rather hang around with my guy friends than get treated like crap. Besides how many relationships have a lot of sex after a few years ? So the longer we stay the crap increases and the sex decreases.
When did we become their servants? | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/22/2008 5:04:14 PM | [qoute]There were 7 guys including 1 priest
the group contained several PhD's, a CEO, a doctor, a lawyer, a couple of VP's etc. All but 1 of the 6 have been married and divorced.
and to quote the point that most missed: (again I quote! lol) [quote}OK, I must be bad at arithmetics. How many people were at your party again, OP?
me thinks the OP had an "interesting" cough cough .. theory.
If men and/or women were happier not dating, there's a whole lotta people on THIS site going about it the wrong way! lol | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/22/2008 5:04:44 PM | i know know if this helps, but by about age 25 i realized that a person can feel high on knowing there's many wanting them, and that sensation can be more powerful than settling down with one person. there can be a fear in the settling for it would mean a big loss in the attention. women would like to not admit to it. once in a while when things are going so well with men in them being admired, they may have a momentary glimpse into the sensation that is only that, temporary, whereas it could be years and years for women, depending on their age and how sexy they are.
i view this site as not immune from the aforementioned, in fact it might even be accentuated. men have more nerve to contact women through this more innocuous route and it creates an even bigger Frankenstein*...men are help creating an even worse woman through the attention we are giving them. but what are men suppose to do? unless you can state you are a professional football player or a heart surgeon, you won't get anywhere here unless the woman is desperate and women don't want to put themselves in that spot for rejection, but some do try.
And this is why i propose a month moratorium on men making contacts with women on this site. say beginning June 1, and watch how things change.
* this is a word, look it up. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/22/2008 5:11:11 PM | I saw the "new school" when everything was "old school"- I was raised by a single mother in the 50s-70s. No men were around. I did all the grunt work, and housework. Mom got burned lots, and finally gave up. I can tell you it is sad to see someone 72 yrs old without a life partner, she is single for over 50 yrs. I think the key is compromise. Not all men and women are alike and are going to play games with your feelings. I want to grow old with someone, but I don't want to be a handmaid, like many men my age expect. As far as 100s of responses a day that women supposedly get- that is bizarre. I was married for over 25 yrs, and did everything. I think that many men over a certain age are used to getting things their way, a man's world, and things have changed. It is a good thing that they are learning to take care of themselves so they can be equal partners for someone else who is making money too. I also buy tickets, etc, but am ok with going places and doing things alone. I am not looking for someone to entertain me- but "dating" is so we can see if we "click"- not trying to use anyone here!
I think everyone needs to reconsider their attitudes, because trust me, you don't want to be alone when you are 60, 70, and older. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/22/2008 5:20:00 PM | Oh this whole thread seems sad to some degree.
I think it is normal and healthy to accept yourself for who you are and to have your own life.
I personally want to share my life with someone and grow old with them. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/22/2008 5:53:24 PM |
i've given up on women a few times, haivng months to years in between then suddenly being with a woman for a week then seeing she has a blank mind and wants to create problems, so i leave to go another year or so without, but i am still a dreamer.
Sounds like you are on the same track that many others I have met recently... and where they end up is doing things that make themselves happy and after a year or so of building their own life into a happy state they don't want to do anything that takes away from that.
I was just struck by the OP's friends pretty much ruling out dating. I'm so sorry that they have been burned by some women...but trust me, we are all not like that. Take me, for example! I love to go out, and I am still very optimistic and hopeful that I will meet someone for a long-term relationship. I just hate to see the guys give up!
One buddy of mine (PhD & VP of R&D at a billion dollar corp) said it this way: I am waiting on a woman who comes with her own happiness and is not looking for me to fill some void or gap in her life." | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/22/2008 5:58:48 PM |
So my question is this: Has anyone else noticed this trend? Does anyone else know any guys who have built happy lives without dating and now don’t even consider dating an option? Or perhaps know a guy who in headed in that direction? Or perhaps you ARE a guy who is headed in that direction...
I think I'm headed in that direction. I tried dating, but the frustration and rejection started to get to me so I backed off. It just seemed like the women I was interested in and attracted to weren't interested in me.
It's so much easier to follow my own interests and passions without worrying about what someone else thinks. It's nice being able to do what I want, when I want, and how I want. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/22/2008 6:14:14 PM | Maybe most of it boils down to sex! These types of men
don't NEED sex! I know men like this. Doesn't mean their
Gay as someone suggested although I have wondered on
occassion. lol
And, they know the ropes! Certain kinds of women with an
agenda, just can't get anywhere with these men.  | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/22/2008 6:20:53 PM | | It truly is a beautiful thing to find one that you can share your life with; however, as stated before the independent nature of both male and female has caused a shift in society. I think though, if we are ever to find that special one in our lives we must be able to calm the independent spirit restless within and find a place of mutual clarity where two can share the core of who they are. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/22/2008 6:25:18 PM | Re the Opost
Between find "the one" in one's life (!!!) and celibacy, well, there is a lot of "water" in between. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/22/2008 6:27:26 PM | I'm confused OP, you complain that women are too independent, then quote someone who seems to be pining for a woman doesn't 'need him to fill a void'. Most of us here have jobs, friends, interests, and lives, and therefore aren't willing to date someone incompatible or who we are not particularly attracted to just to have someone.
For those here who think all the women get 100's of messages from great guys, sorry to burst your bubble, but it doesn't work that way- your version of reality is utterly skewed by your own negative experience apparently.
I also have the feeling that many men only approach women who meet some type of beauty standard, but then get angry when their looks or height are in turn judged by these women. You can't have it both ways...
I think the main issue with dating is this- it's just not that easy to find someone you're attracted to, who is attracted to you as well, AND is compatible in other ways. If you don't have much of a sex drive, (or are gay and haven't quite admitted it yet), or are happier with platonic relationships then by all means just don't date- I doubt anyone will desperately try to convert you back to dating. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/22/2008 6:42:28 PM | But is it more beautiful to find someone to share your life with than it is to find and maintain your own inner peace and happiness?
It's not to say the two are mutually exclusive but with the number of failed relationships perhaps it is? | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/22/2008 6:47:08 PM | | I've noticed it, but it's usually because there is something wrong with the guy, or he just wants to work and make money. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/22/2008 6:48:14 PM | No, I didn't know that was a social phenomen. It sounds more like a story from a writer on the Oprah show. If you don't want to date don't date....How often do they need a "date". Maybe they are gay and in the closet.
FYI, most people "date" when they meet a person they want to "date"..in the meantime we are all just stardust waiting for another big bang. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/22/2008 7:01:20 PM | | I thought it was normal as men and women aged they went back to being with their own sex. Men and women meet up for sex or to go dancing. But otherwise, socialize with people you can relate to. Dating is a pre-marriage activity, which is a pre-family activity. When you're done with that, why date? | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/22/2008 7:34:55 PM | regarding some comments about these guys not needing sex: i can't speak for others, but i know my sex drive is not lacking, though it may be as low as the typical 18-yr old by now. I imagine these other men have decent drives as well, as testosterone is said to be augmented by the feeling of accomplishments.
**they likely do not want to sell themselves out.**
imagine a woman being a nympho- she can have her wildest desires met at any given time. however, when a woman has a heightened drive and yet is restrained in waiting for a boyfriend, that is very much admired. i don't see why the same can't be admired in these men. perhaps the OP could make some phonecalls and provide more info regarding this about them.
anyway, i'd like to speak with some of those guys about some inventions - i need to apply for more patents. this would be better than talking about who's in some dancing contest or singing contest on tv. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/22/2008 7:42:03 PM | I'm confused OP, you complain that women are too independent, then quote someone who seems to be pining for a woman doesn't 'need him to fill a void'. Most of us here have jobs, friends, interests, and lives, and therefore aren't willing to date someone incompatible or who we are not particularly attracted to just to have someone.
For those here who think all the women get 100's of messages from great guys, sorry to burst your bubble, but it doesn't work that way- your version of reality is utterly skewed by your own negative experience apparently.
uhhh... check your facts Snake. I have not complained about anything nor do I believe that all women get 100's of emails nor is my friend pining for anyone.
And no one was talking about converting anyone back to anything, this is a discussion about an evolution some men are experiencing.
And why do you have to assume they are gay or have no sex drive just because they have a higher set of piorities? To think that men have no conntrol over their libido is to equate men with animals which, quite frankly, takes a very narrow minded individual projecting her own negative experiences with men onto other men. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/22/2008 8:55:13 PM | | Oh whawww.... Quit your whinning and get pickey! Amazing the sexual revolution may have pushed us futher apart rather than closer. Price of gasoline could change all that. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/22/2008 9:42:23 PM | All this time I thought that there was something wrong with me... So I'm not the only person that feels this way...
What a great thread!... Made me think! | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/22/2008 9:47:24 PM | I'll throw out there that my current lifestyle is pretty much as the OP describes.
I haven't been on a date since last November. I went on two dates with women I met off this site. Before that, I hadn't been involved with a woman since January of 2007. I haven't even had sex in over a year.
What do I do with my life? I work, go to grad school, hang with friends, exercise, and take part in several hobbies for my own enjoyment.
Why haven't I been trying to date or "find someone"? Most of the reason is that since I started pursuing women in my life (age 16), it's been nothing but one bad experience after the next. One flake after the next. One rejection after the next. One wishy-washy "I don't know what I want" female after the next. The sheer amount of women I've met who basically choose to be with horrible abusive men over anyone who would be good to them alone pushed me.
All these things pushed me more and more into wondering what value is in it all anymore. I hear to death about having that special somone, being in love, etc...but in the last six years alone my dating life has been a cycle of meeting women who start off fun, friendly, cool, and interested in me...but they shortly go from normal to headcase and make a mess of everything. That or they have some ex they can't get over or some other baggage.
I'm seeing now that I'm not alone, despite how many "alpha males" tell me to death how I should just treat women as pieces of meat or to forget the idea of love and marriage and just pursue sex with hot young women. I tell you...I need more.
So when I get frustrated with dating, I take a break. I back off. I fill my life with my own pursuits and I become happy again. Things seem very drama-free. I can't blame men when they get like this that they decide to just not bother with women at all in their lives.
I get lonely at times...that need for more than just friends around me, but what keeps driving me away from trying again is simply all these bad memories and experiences. I keep asking if I really want to start shelling out money and time dating, only to just end up right back where I keep ending up....disappointed.
I remember scaring a female friend once when I said "I can cook my own meals and clean my own house". In her eyes she felt totally devalued, as if I had no need for her or any woman whatsoever. She started to wonder if she is now in a hopeless pit where she'll never see her dreams of being Mrs Someone. She wondered if all men were thinking as I do.
It's hard to explain, and I think Jillian Strauss would call this the "Cult of I" and the "Why Suffer" Mentality. I think both men and women have had such bad dating experiences that they simply just decided it's better to not bother, and it's bad when I more look at all this as a divorce I'll never have to face, or even the freedom to spend my life and money on me as opposed to a wife and family.
Some can say it's "selfish", but I more look at my life as "all about me" until a woman steps up that can prove to me that it's worth it to try again. Still, it seems when I meet one of those, she goes from royally interested to hiding in a hole...scared to death of any guy getting close to her or even the fears that a man will simply become an obstacle to her life.
I wish I had a more positive picture to paint, but at the age of 34 all I keep seeing are more damaged women or women who believe a wealthy David Beckham clone will come along and marry them...thus average guys like me aren't "worthy" in her eyes. I see marriages failing, friends miserable with their relationships, cheating, drama, etc...
...and more makes me ask "am I really missing out on something here?" | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/22/2008 9:57:10 PM | | Wow, that sure is not good for their health. Many studies show men die sooner without wives. Women do better without men, but men do not do very well alone. This is news to me. Most men I know have one woman after another and never go up for air. Studies show men are more likely to marry right after a divorce, whereas a woman waits a bit longer. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/22/2008 11:38:42 PM | > It's always been more acceptable to be a bachelor than a spinster.
A somewhat similar claim was made not long ago on another thread, so sorry for the cut-n-paste...
The prejudice against singleness has been particularly virulent in America, where survival and salvation alike made it imperative to marry in the eyes of the Puritan fathers. Patriarchs of the New World like Jonathan Mayhew (writing in his Christian Sobriety, of 1763) railed against bachelorism as a "criminal way of life" and warned of the "many civil and political bad consequences of celibacy", the chief being the prevention of increase in the population. Parson Weems addressed many pamphlets like Hymen's Recruiting Sergeant (1899) to "singles", urging them to put away "the leprous stains of old Bachelorism" and "the pestilence of celibacy for the sake of God, man, and country". Many of the original colonies established ordinances preventing bachelors from living alone. Conduct manuals published throughout the nineteenth century continued to deplore the "selfish and perverted" life of bachelors. One newspaper commentary from the early 1800s summed up the general attitude toward the single state: "To live merely for one's self -- how despicable!".
- from Madonna Kolbenschlag's book Kiss Sleeping Beauty Good-Bye
Looking at the portrayal of single males versus single females in sit-coms and elsewhere in popular culture it would be especially difficult to argue that the former are more acceptable than the latter IMO.
> Is this a new social phenomenon???
Depends on what you mean by "new". It's been observed and reported by others going back at least a dozen years that I know of.
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/23/2008 3:44:14 AM | | Kind of saddening but true, i've felt like it at times (mostly during my teen years), but not quite ready to give up yet. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/23/2008 4:00:03 AM | I have to say, I have seen this lately. I actually have a late 30's friend of mine with the same exact attitude.
What's keeping him not as "girl crazy" as he used to be, was the fact that he lived with 4 female roomates (I think one including his sister). So he was around female behavior alot.
And of course, certain bad experiences with women.
FINALLY after years and years of being without a girlfriend, he met a female co-worker (at another store branch, so not REALLY a co-worker) of his that he became good friends with. He THOUGHT she was going to be a pretty cool woman, interesting thing was, she was always calling him and asking him to do favors for her. He even was picking up her kid at school. I thought it was pretty pathetic.
And I was like "have you even KISSed her yet?" Nope....lol
Anyhow, some friends of hers and his were noticing them spending alot of time with each other, so they "assumed" they were a dating....so friends started making remarks to her about him l iking her and if it's true and all that.
Then HE gets an email from her out of the blue saying, "I'm NOT your girlfriend!"
At this point in her life, she's acting immature, started into her 30-something "adolescense" (sp?) by partying all the time and drinking. So she basically flaked out.
SO, he's back on his dry spell again for the long haul, enjoying himself, his toys (electronics and stuff) and so on. He has no real "drive" to pursue women. He actually prefers to stay at home most of the time. Unless he gets invited somewhere once in a while to a friends BBQ or something.
I don't think I've quite gotten there yet, but I can see the logic to the OP's post. Can't say I blame these men. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/23/2008 4:04:04 AM |
Or perhaps you ARE a guy who is headed in that direction
Yup....
all so confusing, you open the door or hold a chair for one woman and she takes your head off because she's "independent"
Been there, been on the recieving end of that...
After trying - being a nice guy - and, basically, getting kicked in the crotch for doin' so numerous times by women who would think of themselves as 'nice women', a 'great catch', etc... one can not help but come away from these experiences, stop and take a long hard look at the situation and wonder why this is happening.
I don't have any answers for anyone, however - for me - I will just keep on plugging away at it for now. I used to be more 'into it', however the last few years certainly has seen a reduced level of enthusiasm for all of this on my part.
One thing that I truly feel would go a long way toward making the entire situation better (and the world for that matter) - if people would just be a bit nicer to one another. | |
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