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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/24/2008 1:28:05 AM | grkboy made excellent points.
IMO, no it's not a new social phenomenon. It's just more visible. It's as new as terrorism, sexual predators, polygamy, gender wars, miserable marriages/relationships, incest, celebrity gossip, teacher/student affairs, economic recessions, uninspiring leaders, politicians having mistresses, cougars, homosexuality, questionable pop music, etc.....
Women shouldn't feel threatened either. I've seen some females respond negatively to the OP's post. If a man takes himself off the market for personal reasons, in what way does this affect you? That's one less man wasting your time. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/24/2008 1:39:07 AM | to onefunnybabe
re sharing and growing old
perhaps age may have something to do with it~ I was married for over thirty years, certainly grew old, shared some (but not enough), and then ended up on my own in my early sixties. At this point of time, I'm enjoying life again, meeting some really nice people, but the prospect of a future relationship of a permanent nature is probably unlikely. Getting burned keeps you away from the fire. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/24/2008 2:02:13 AM | Yikes I hope not. It's difficult enough to stumble upon a man willing to enter a relationship (as oppose to just sex) among those who are in the dating the pool. If interesting men start removing themselves all together that makes the odds even worse. Looks like women will be left with all the jerks till they eventually give up and do something else as well.
Guess that was the whole point of patriarchy wasn't it? Keep men and women from drifting away from each other - now that it's crumbling we'll end up not bothering with each at all? | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/24/2008 2:02:55 AM | No, I for one am not threatened. There are men and women who cannot be in a healthy relationship. So, that is a blessing in disguise. It is better to live alone and be happy rather than be the cause of more heartaches. If you cannot and know that you are not capable of being in a loving and devoted relationship, which is actually full of compromises, you should get yourself off the market and do others a favour. It is much easier to please oneself and live for onself, in short be your very own priority than another human being. There are many people who are like that and by nature should really be alone.
Being in a relationship means you are willing to put yourself behind a loved one. Some of us refuse to do that. If you cannot accept the fact that you are not #1 in a relationship, it is best to get off and be generous to yourself. By so doing you have done mankind a huge favour.
Escort services probably will be on the rise because knowing the nature of many men, I doubt those who claimed to be celibate are telling the truth. That's precisely one of the reasons for shortage of priests. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/24/2008 4:21:02 AM | I am not one that needs to get in touch with my emotions, don't have 'walls' up, nor am I a commitment-phobe, nor do I carry an inordinate number of issues around with me like a portfolio. I am not looking for a woman to 'fill a void' per se either. Yes, I want a relationship - the last one - and if it is agreeable to both parties - yes, marriage.
The original post and, I thought, the viewpoint/s expressed were about not dating because of lack of enthusiasm for it because of all their poor experiences with it.
Too, I can understand that there are women that feel similarly as well.
Guess the entire thing is just too difficult to pull together via meeting online. I mean - when you meet someone in your daily life - you can tell if you click or don't - through measures, sometimes subtle, but you have signals so to speak. Online, it is more difficult - you do not have the visual nor verbal cues, merely an email.
Also, I too have found it much more difficult as of late to merely get together for quick meet for a cup of coffee say. I used to communicate via multiple emails initially - finding out what I could - then move to the phone conversation stage - then the meet in person phase - typically for dinner. However, I found that this didn't always work out well. So I decided - okay, why not meet sooner rather than later to see if there is any 'click'. No pressure - something quick - coffee, drinks, whatever. However, this - as another has pointed out - seems to be tough to pull off as well. Why is this???? If you are interested - you are interested.
I have these periods where I seem to have multiple women that are interested. Last one was a few months back. I send emails. We exchange some information about one another. Maybe phone numbers for some that feel comfortable with it. Talk on the phone perhaps. Okay - lets do a quick meet for a cup of coffee. Last 'streak' was six women. I tried to meet EVER one of them for coffee. Out of the six that I communicated with for THREE MONTHS - I was able to finally coordinate meeting ONE for a cup of coffee. ONE!!! OUT OF SIX!!!! Everyone of them - 'yes, when I get back from....', 'I am busy tonight....', 'My mother needs...' and on and on and on. OMG!!!
After trying for three months to meet for a simple cup of coffee, I started to give up on these women. I just let things dwindle - didn't persue - if they contacted me - fine - I would follow up, but if they didn't seem to get back with a 'Can't do it then, but how about .....', I didn't initiate a follow up.
For crying out loud. One woman - I almost took a day off from work to meet her for lunch (she lived a bit away and meeting required some travel). You mean to tell me - three months - we can't coordinate meeting for coffee????? Weekends. Evenings. LOL Yes, yes - I understand you are busy, but so am I.
If one party proposes a time and you can't do it. You should reciprocate with a counter - propose a time/meet of your own that works for you.
I look at it this way. If their level of interest, schedule , family happening, what have you is/are such that in three months you can't meet them for a simple drink or coffee - then the odds of a relationship working are really quite slim. Adios. Ciao. Bye-Bye.
This is my frustration. This is what I read the OP was talking about. This is what I relate to here in some others posts
Perhaps all these people that initially contact you and yet are impossible to meet just want a cyber-email relationship or are married looking for a 'little somthin' on the side. I have a hard time thinking that all these women are married though.
Like I said - I take a step back, take a look at things and give a fair bit of thought as to what to do about it. For now, I just keep pluggin'.
Best,
Steve | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/24/2008 4:24:59 AM | Actually, gay men and pedophiles aren't looking for women to date either.
My point is that sometimes, they are still in the closet and don't feel sharing this part of themselves is appropriate for dinner conversation with a priest.
A rather foolish notion Val. And narrow minded. I get a kick out of people that think men like them (possibly me, because I am growing tired of it...but not quite there yet) are "in the closet) gay.
You get guys, who are NOT at that point, who hasn't had a date in a year....and women ask him, "Are you gay?"
And alot of these assumptions are WAY off. I Think the "Are you gay?" is some sort of retalitory response made by women, who THEY themselves are the problem....not the fact that the guy is "gay".
It's kind of like saying, "I fail to admit women are all "that bad", so it's not them, it's the fact that he's probably GAY!" So, I'll ask him if he's gay.
Some women are afraid to admit that they are the ones that are making it hard for men to pursue them....but of course, since men are "giving up" on the chase, they are gay of course, right?
Apparently, men are "gay" because they ask a woman out and get blown off all the time. Or they are gay because they are tired of the dating game.
For crying out loud. One woman - I almost took a day off from work to meet her for lunch (she lived a bit away and meeting required some travel). You mean to tell me - three months - we can't coordinate meeting for coffee????? Weekends. Evenings. LOL Yes, yes - I understand you are busy, but so am I.
LOL...I hear you man! LOL Man out of 6!! It's like pulling teeth!
Yeah,it's "I have to wash my hair" or "I have to de-flea the dog" or "I have to pick lent out of the dryer" with these women.
With a couple of these women, I stood my ground and said, "Listen, do you want to meet or what?" And they get isssy with me and say, "hey, if you can't accept the fact I have a busy life , then this won't work"
I had one tell me to just leave her alone after confronting her or calling her on her B.S.! lol They give you the "I don't have to explain myself " speech. When there really is no excuse. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/24/2008 4:43:35 AM | | Men are very concerned about money..if they have been in relationships in which they were the main supporter(likewise women)then most likely they have had to give up some of their equity and not liked it...so,rather than go thru that again,and risk losing financially again,they would rather stay single..I don't blame them...when you work hard all your life and then your relationship,one in which you figured you'd be in till death do you part,falls apart,and then you have to pay out big bucks on top of it,you get a little cautious...also,people who work in high stress jobs,have lots of responsibility,and seniority,tend to be more wrapped up in their work then their spouse..sex becomes less of an issue...so put this all together and you might have your answer as to why older people stay single....there also is the little skeleton in the closethat might have something to do with sex drive and lack of it...all due to age,work,responsibilities,health,emotional trauma,etc. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/24/2008 5:48:52 AM | Hellofagal - right...I met some recently divorced "stay-at-home" moms...they were housewives and mothers all their life.
So they actually had Alimony coming to them on top of child support. When they divorced, they had no "job skills" just "Mommy skills"...and this was after around 20 years of marraige.
I think they started going to take classes at a community colleges or something though. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/24/2008 6:03:59 AM | Wow, I love these forums...
I have no problem getting dates, exactly the opposite. Relationships take time and effort. Most people get burnt out on one and don't want to make the future investment. It's really that simple, and that complex. Older women? They are delightful; for the most part, the "players" are easy to spot because they aren't truthful (pics don't match, age is wrong, etc.), while the honest ones are so very interesting.
Remember, chemistry is a class. Give it time. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/24/2008 6:10:02 AM |
"So, while I was adjusting my expectations I started doing charity work, I learned a new language, I started a woodworking shop in my garage, developed new male friendships and before you know it a year had passed and I was happier than I had ever been."
He was happier because he was a more complete well rounded person. Also he was free to be selfish. It is easier to be alone. You don't have to try to please anyone else. On the other hand, there's just something so special about working, sitting or lying next to a person you love that you know loves you. I just don't think any amount of charity work, friendship, or hobbies would totally replace that feeling. Without love, giving up the freedom to be selfish is a burden. With love giving up that freedom is a joy. Maybe its better to strive to become a well rounded fulfilled happy person and then add that special relationship if love comes along. Your friend who liked the girl until she asked for sacrifices did not love that girl. If he had they probably would not have seemed like such big sacrifices.
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/24/2008 6:26:09 AM | No. I get contacted continually on POF and it seems to me anyone on here is enjoiny the company of the opposite sex. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/24/2008 7:10:55 AM |
So my question is this: Has anyone else noticed this trend? Does anyone else know any guys who have built happy lives without dating and now don’t even consider dating an option? Or perhaps know a guy who in headed in that direction? Or perhaps you ARE a guy who is headed in that direction...
With whom do they have sex? Their hands? Prostitutes? Friends with benefits? Abstinence? Am I the only one who thinks that cutting sex out of one's life is abnormal and unhealthy?
The Priest acknowledged this as part of why he became a priest saying "one does not need a mate to be happy, successful and fulfilled."
From the notable scandals of the Catholic church, priests seem to have more sex than some of the population at large.
The men whom I have known who have gone in this direction (both platonic friends and men who were still in the dating game) have done so because:
1. They can't find a date--for whatever reason.
2. They are, on the surface, as you say--compassionate, etc., but underneath, they are emotional cowards who can't face the possibility of commitment because inside, they are scared quivering bowls of mush.
3. Saying:
"Man has always turned to woman as his best friend and constant companion and women no longer desire that role and many of the good ones just want a weekly dinner companion and someone to take the occasional vacation with but not someone to grow old with." He continued by saying "I want more than that and if I can't have it, I prefer to build a life that makes me happy based on what I choose to do."
is a cop-out. MANY women, if not most, seek a partner. Read these forums, they are filled with "good" women who seek "decent" men with whom to settle down. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/24/2008 7:14:22 AM | "Older women? They are delightful; for the most part, the "players" are easy to spot because they aren't truthful (pics don't match, age is wrong, etc.), while the honest ones are so very interesting. "
RangerPete does have a point here, not necessarily about older women per se, but that age is a factor in relationships. Younger men and women are "programmed" to find mates. Women look for providers for themselves and potential children. Men look for women that will bear progeny. As we grow older, those priorities change, and with modern society being what it is, and the fact we are all living longer (a very recent development in the history of mankind) we are dealing with issues that are very "new" to us. Honestly, we don't quite know what to do with ourselves after the years of childbearing and rearing those children. Not so many years ago, we just died off before finding a second, third or more partner was ever an issue.
Seems to me that people, as we grow older, make more concrete lists of what we want in another person, and expect them to bend to meet our expectations. It is a rare person who is willing to make huge changes in their life for another person, to make a relationship a true partnership. The OP lists people who, in their work lives, have been the ones setting the rules, so I seriously doubt any one of them is flexible enough to accept flaws in a woman.
Meanwhile, women are growing older and now have the time to put themselves and their needs first, and these men find that unacceptable.
What are the true expectations of these men when it comes to finding a mate? Is every date like a job interview, where the woman is being sized up as the "ideal mate for me", with the emphasis on the "me" part? ("I want more than that and if I can't have it, I prefer to build a life that makes me happy based on what I choose to do." , " "one does not need a mate to be happy, successful and fulfilled.")Has anyone of these men been humble enough to think, "Am I a good match for her?" ('I took time off to figure out and adjust my expectations.", ""So, while I was adjusting my expectations ...." Can anyone in that group explain just how they adjusted their expectations other than to expect no woman would live up to them?)
What about the ones that don't even want to "waste time" having a woman as a friend? All or nothing - how sad that is. I have men who are friends, and I am happy to say there are a lot of men out there that don't have the attitude this bunch of crusty, inflexible, lonely old (no matter what the chronological age) men have. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/24/2008 7:28:36 AM | Re post 90:
"With whom do they have sex? Their hands? Prostitutes? Friends with benefits? Abstinence? Am I the only one who thinks that cutting sex out of one's life is abnormal and unhealthy? "
Nope, the fellow poster is not alone. There is at least one other poster, mois, who thinks that! Not wanting to be married or a co-habitational rel is one thing, but a rel between a man and a woman can take many different forms/formats today, to fit almost any quirk or POV. And of course, sex or making love is a very important element in life, not only for the hedone but also for health! It cannot be substituted with celibacy, m'bating or pros. No reason is good reason for a man to give upp on women. If burnt, one can simply be wiser in one's choices. It is a well known fact throughout history that people who do not have regular sex are, at least, cranky! Human nature. ONSs cannot solve that equation. If a man has developed an antipathy towards closer rels, an FwB one is but one solution. Giving up on sex and romance is missing the point in life, IMO. Suppression of sexuality goes against nature, IMO. Thus if this is a social plenomenon, it is not one that will last very long, IMO.
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/24/2008 7:40:13 AM | It is a well known fact throughout history that people who do not have regular sex are, at least, cranky!
Um....if you say so, if you get cranky or something as far as lack of sex, find another avenue to release your tension.
GO work out, work on a project, do something productive (the OP and his friends are). there's other things you can do in lieu of sex, sex is not all that, it's over rated.
1. They can't find a date--for whatever reason.
I think this the most common. Due to overly picky single women or just single with issues...like one poster said, he was only able to land a date with 1 out of the SIX he corresponded with. lol. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/24/2008 7:51:30 AM | Your comment only testifies that you may never have had a blow your mind coupling with a sublime erotic counterpart.
Well, you can I always test out that theory.  Hope I don't get my mind blown too much. lol. You could pacify my "yearning" ;-) Try out the "Tantric" experience you have there.
True, there's always that exception to the rule too. I don't deny that. :-)
1811 (whatever that means, lol) | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/24/2008 7:59:15 AM |
So my question is this: Has anyone else noticed this trend? Does anyone else know any guys who have built happy lives without dating and now don’t even consider dating an option? Or perhaps know a guy who in headed in that direction? Or perhaps you ARE a guy who is headed in that direction...
I think your friends have stated it well.
Most women seem to have an "ideal man" in thier head that was created by the mass media... Its hard as hell to compete with that... besides... seems the dating pool is limited.. too many women seem to be towing kids along with them. Its hard as hell to develop a relationship one on one... but add 1-4 little ones in the mix it just gets harder...
One gets tired of being second to something that has nothing to do with you....
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/24/2008 8:07:43 AM | Re post 95:
"Big au contraire, my friend. Sex is highly under rated!!!!!"
Could not agree more!
Re post 94:
"Um....if you say so, if you get cranky or something as far as lack of sex, find another avenue to release your tension."
I am 45 and been in the dating world 29 years! So I am not only talking of personal experiece or situations in one country or area of the world or decade! Eg unmarried virgin women in the past, "spinsters", it is a well known fact that they were cranky! And occasionally mean. The make love, not war slogan was not a social idea only, btw, it is proven that people who do not make love are more prone to hostility, men AND women, nastiness and ... gossip.
"GO work out, work on a project, do something productive (the OP and his friends are). there's other things you can do in lieu of sex, sex is not all that, it's over rated."
These things have been tried and tested throughout history!!! They simply are not the same and do not have the same wide and positive effects as a good sex life. Sex is the best workout, better than jogging or weights or swimming. And what does being "productive" have to do with it? People who do not have good sex are known to become aggressive in the workplace, etc. If more people had better sex lives, the world would be a much "nicer" place to live, for all of us! | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/24/2008 8:08:38 AM | OP - I'm gonna be very blunt.
This relationship thing ain't no cake walk for any of us. These wonderful guys you know have all wimped out.
I'm glad they're happy. I'm very happy with my life as well, and if I live the rest of my days without a good solid man, I'll still consider myself blessed.
However, I'm not ready to forgo the celebration and the magic that happens when two people who are right for each other, actually find each other.
Nobody ever said dating (as in the search for a true lifelong partner) doesn't take courage. Nothing worth having is easy. If you don't have the courage, don't have the determination, don't have the sheer intestinal fortitude, go play cards with the Priest. lol
Bitterness is easy. Giving up is easy. Love takes courage. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/24/2008 8:10:36 AM |
They simply are not the same and do not have the same wide and positive effects as a good sex life. Sex is the best workout, better than jogging or weights or swimming.
Well, with that said, it depends on who you ask, depends on the person/individual.  | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/24/2008 8:11:00 AM | There have been several comments about the "dating pool". It seems to me that the dating pool is filled with sharks, pirranahas, and gators. Now some swimmers are choosing to get out of the water and the predators are getting mad. Too bad. Maybe they shouldn't have bitten so hard.
I admire men who can do this. I only wish I could. Instead I waste time and money looking for something that I know is never going to happen. I can stay away for a time, usually because of either extreme bitterness and frustration, or vigorous physical activity, but those don't last forever. If there was a way I could eliminate the urges without doing physical damage, I would in a heartbeat. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/24/2008 8:22:44 AM |
.....but it is a journey and not for the weak, or faint of heart.......may they learn woodworking and be useful and euniched in their eternal men's groups.
Amen Sister! lol
There is so much joy to be shared between men and women. If someone (of either gender) has nothing but bad experiences..................well, they are the common denominator. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/24/2008 8:28:25 AM | | So why, then, are men who have "had it with dating" still on a dating site? Gee, wouldn't possibly be for sex? Nah, that would perpetuate a stereotype. Luckily, I know there is a vast majority of men out there who are absolutely wonderful, normal, average Joes. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/24/2008 8:33:15 AM | Here's my take - these guys, who have ther lives together - have been in relationship with one too many cuckoos who have so extremely warped their senses that the guys now believe they can be truly, truly, happy without dating anyone except Rosey or Lucy.
Statistically at least half of your friends will snap back to reality and realize hey, she looks good, I'm gonna talk to her. And the trend will revert. | |
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| Is this a new social phenomenon???
Posted: 5/24/2008 8:37:33 AM | ....but it is a journey and not for the weak, or faint of heart.......may they learn woodworking and be useful and euniched in their eternal men's groups.
This is akin to the immature statement that guys made fun of other guys who couldn't "get laid" in high school.
I haven't completely "Given up" hhowever, I do see the OP's points making sense
There is so much joy to be shared between men and women. If someone (of either gender) has nothing but bad experiences..................well, they are the common denominator.
Explain please. | |
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