| Obama ducking sniper fire?
Posted: 5/29/2008 7:42:29 AM |
Obama and his Obvious embellishment/Lie....
The essential point of Obama was unchanged. He does have a tie in to a family member that was part of the group that liberated a death camp.
This is now somehow some great embellishment/lie ?  | |
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| Obama ducking sniper fire?
Posted: 5/29/2008 8:03:35 AM | .
The names don't match. What is the uncles real name?
Here's the WWII service list for the 89th infantry division.
http://89infdivww2.org//home/list_p.htm
Here's a few names, the one in bold is Obama's great uncle Charlie.
Payne C. T. Pfc 355thInf K
----------------------------
14. Rolla Charles PAYNE was born 23 August 1892 in Olathe, Johnson County, Kansas and died in Kansas in October 1968.
15. Leona MCCURRY was born about May 1897 in Kansas.
Rolla Charles PAYNE and Leona MCCURRY married in Kansas about 1922 and had the following children:
1. i. Madelyn PAYNE
ii. Charles W. PAYNE born about 1924.
iii. Arlene PAYNE born about 1926.
What is the Uncles name?
Payne C. T. Pfc 355thInf is not the name listed in the genealogy
Charles W. Payne, born 1924, enlisted 10Nov42, Navy, 6293977 Registered, order #12019, Kansas City, Wyandotte Co., Board #4 | |
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| Obama ducking sniper fire?
Posted: 5/29/2008 8:36:37 AM |
Helps if you read the entire thread. But for your benefit
I did . I chose to stick to the facts and original topic rather than ramble the highways and byeways of excuses and Obama-diversions.
Getting a fact wrong in a story is certainly not the same thing as making an entire story up for your own personal glory.
Wrong relative and wrong place....if the story is true at all ."wrong" here is a lie for anyone else.
.......... if it was true like you quote......................and he was "proud"........
Senator Obama's family is proud of the service of his grandfather and uncles in World War II — especially the fact that his great-uncle was a part of liberating one of the concentration camps at Buchenwald," campaign spokesman Bill Burton said in a statement. "Yesterday he mistakenly referred to Auschwitz instead of Buchenwald in telling of his personal experience of a soldier in his family who served heroically."
........you would proud enough to know who the relative was.........and where he was...........if he was........
Hillary much as I don't care for her was actually where she said she was.... .Bullets were flying around those parts in those days but maybe not over her head............lol .He lies just as well ...........nobody wants to own up........yet.
As a matter of interest......the 3 man British Army scouting party that came upon Belsen gave talks in our school some 14 years back as I was starting O 'level history .
They did not enter...........they reported back and I remember one guys name to be Warrender . My granny has a friend whose father guarded Hess in Scotland right through the war years .He died last year . | |
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| Obama ducking sniper fire?
Posted: 5/29/2008 9:34:35 AM | .
a 2002 speech, Obama, "My grandfather signed up for a war the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed, fought in Patton's army."
Obama's claim his grandfather enlisted in the Army the day after the bombing of Pearl Harbor is contradicted by Army records showing Dunham signed up June 18, 1942 – six months after Pearl Harbor.
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| Obama ducking sniper fire?
Posted: 5/29/2008 11:14:29 AM | Jimmy Carter's Second Term
By Paul Miller
It was a cold and rainy October night when my mother and I stood outside a Skokie, Illinois Synagogue to hear and hopefully meet Georgia Governor James Earl "Jimmy" Carter. My parents and most Americans were still sickened over Watergate, President Gerald Ford's unconditional pardon of Richard Nixon and the disaster of the Vietnam War. They hungered for "change" and "new hope". Many Americans believed they found what they desperately yearned for in a peanut farmer turned politician from Georgia.
Four years later Jimmy Carter's name couldn't be uttered by my father without being proceeded by four-letter expletives. My mother cried herself to sleep believing that Carter's school-busing program was going to take me from my elementary school down the block to a school and hour away on the southside of Chicago. Supporters of Israel began to distrust him as he began showing signs of an anti-Israel bias. The economy was devastating families with double-digit inflation and the Iran hostage crisis made Americans ashamed of their President.
Today there is an eerie similarity to the election that led up to the disastrous Carter administration. All the Presidential candidates are speaking the rhetoric of "change" and "trust" in government. However, assumed Democratic nominee Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) has based his entire bid for the White House with Carter-style ideas and campaign policy advisers stemming directly from the administration and school of thought of the Carter Presidency.
Obama has already begun running against GOP nominee Sen. John McCain (AZ). He is playing on the fears of Democrats, Independents and some Republicans that the Arizona Senator will be a third term for George W. Bush. While McCain has shown significant policy and philosophical differences then our current President, Barack Obama is a Democrat from the same far-left mold of Carter. I contend that Obama if elected, will be the second term of Jimmy Carter.
The first signs of an Obama/Carter similarity began early on the primary race when the Illinois Senator began hiring former Carter aides and cabinet members to be policy advisers. The biggest name that surfaced was former national security advisor under Jimmy Carter, Zbigniew Brezinski.
Why Obama would want to be in the same room with Brezinski is mind-boggling. He was the first prominent politician to deny that Islamic extremism was or would become a danger to the world. In a February 2, 1979 memo to President Carter he claimed Islamic fundamentalism is not an imminent threat and will not gain prominence in the Middle East.
Like his former boss, Brezinski has the same "blame the Jews" mentality. The former national security advisor has publicly endorsed the views published in the John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt paper "The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy," which has provided endless ammunition for anti-Israel activists, Zionist conspiracy buffs and Holocaust deniers.
Continuing the Carter tradition of employing "blame Israel" advocates, Obama hired former special assistant to President Clinton, Robert Malley. Recently the British newspaper, The Times interviewed Malley in which he admitted that he had visited Syria and held discussions with the terrorist organization Hamas. Last month President Carter also met with the terrorist organization in Egypt and Syria.
As news began to surface about Malley and his meetings with Hamas, he resigned his position with the Obama campaign. Unfortunately the public will never know to what extent Sen. Obama was influenced by Malley. Obama has called for direct talks with Iran, a country that continously calls for the destruction of the state of Israel. Malley and Carter are also vocal advocates for direct talks with Iran, without any stipulations such as denouncing terrorism or their desire to murder millions of Jews.
One of the criticisms facing Obama is his lack of foreign policy experience. Carter was under the same scrutiny during his 1976 Presidential campaign. He relied on Brezinski, Anthony Lake and his eventual Secreatary of State Cyrus Vance. Today Obama also utlizes Brezinski and Lake as well as similar minded foreign policy advisors such as Susan Rice and until recently Malley and Samantha Power, who resigned from the campaign for referring to Hillary Clinton as a Monster. The fact that she was hired by the campaign in the first place shows a dangerous lack of judgement. A judgement that is comparable to President Carter.
Obama's trust of the above mentioned policy advisors has been well documented by the "alternative/new media," so most likely I'm not telling you something you haven't heard before. However it can never be stressed enough that Carter's foreign policy was a disaster for the United States, so it must be asked until properly answered, "why would Obama want advisors who have already demonstrated incompetence under a previous administration?" Maybe Obama doesn't believe Carter's policies were detremental to the America. Does he want to once again go in that direction? America must know before election day.
If Obama's choice of advisers isn't an indication that his Presidency would be Jimmy Carter's second term, than his speech this past Saturday in Roseburg, Oregon undoubtedly was.
In July of 1979 President Carter gave a nationally televised address in which he told America that he believed the nation was facing a "crisis of confidence." His speech would later be known as his "malaise" speech.
During his Oval office conversation with America, Carter did something no President before him has done. He gave a speech that was critical of the attitude and way of life of the American people. Many accurately perceived his speech to be about a defeated America. Carter dwelled on a what he believed was a lack of faith and confidence that had overwhelmed the American people, placing more blame on them instead of the failures of his Presidency as well as the Democrat controlled House and Senate.
"I know, of course, being president, that government actions and legislation can be very important. That's why I've worked hard to put my campaign promises into law -- and I have to admit, with just mixed success," Carter said. "But after listening to the American people I have been reminded again that all the legislation in the world can't fix what's wrong with America."
Carter would go on to literally chide Americans for their lack of confidence in the country. After campaigning to restore America from the toll taken after Vietnam, Watergate and the energy crisis, he had failed and the blame was going to be placed on the people not his lack of leadership.
Obama's speech this past Saturday had a frighteningly similar "blame the people" tone as Carter's speech. While Obama still emphasizes the failures of Washington he also blames Americans for how they live their lives.
"We can't drive our SUVs and, you know, eat as much as we want and keep our homes on, you know, 72 degrees at all times, whether we're living in the desert or we're living in the tundra, and then just expect every other country is going to say OK, you know, you guys go ahead keep on using 25 percent of the world's energy, even though you only account for 3 percent of the population, and we'll be fine," Obama said.
Obama later added fear tactics in making his case that Americans have to change their lifestyle. "We are also going to have to negotiate with other countries. China, India, in particular Brazil. They are growing so fast that they are consuming more and more energy and pretty soon, if their carbon footprint even approaches ours, we're goners."
Brian Fitzpatrick senior editor at Culture and Media Institute also believes that Obama's Oregon address is comparable to Carter's "Malaise" speech. He recently wrote about the media covering up his comments blaming Americans and their way of life. Carter had also become a media darling during his 1976 Presidential campaign. The media pass Obama received in Oregon is a blatant attempt to not add credence to the argument that Obama is the Second Coming of Jimmy Carter.
When you take an honest look at the advisors Obama has selected, his desire to meet with leaders who promote genocide and rule their nations with an iron-fist, the comparison to Carter is undeniable. When you add the fact that both men are media favorites, place much blame on the way Americans live and support increased government regulation and big government programs instead of the free-market ideas to solve America's ills, the fear that people have that an Obama Presidency would by Carter's second term, is not just a concern, but a harsh reality | |
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| Obama ducking sniper fire?
Posted: 5/29/2008 11:36:07 AM | Nice revisionist history.
Carter was an average president, but there hasn't been a good Republican president since Ike! So, how's that glass house working for you? | |
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| Obama ducking sniper fire?
Posted: 5/29/2008 11:44:28 AM | http://thepage.time.com/obama-camp-memo-on-clinton-saying-she-misspoke/
TODAY on KDKA Pittsburgh radio: “You know I have written about this and described it in many different settings and I did misspeak the other day. This has been a very long campaign. Occasionally, I am a human being like everybody else. The military took great care of us. They were worried about taking a First Lady to a war zone and took some extra precautions and worried about all sorts of things. I have written about it in my book and talked about it on many other occasions and last week, you know, for the first time in 12 or so years I misspoke.” http://www.kdkaradio.com/pages/22441.php?contentType=34&contentId=592 | |
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| Obama ducking sniper fire?
Posted: 5/29/2008 12:29:05 PM | Very factual and enlightened post nefarious!
Jimmy Carter was a disaster! and, I agree that Obama is the same rhetoric. What scares me is that he believes it is the answer.
I think Obama will duck any fire from the Media once the established race b/w him and McCain is in full swing. But, I have high confidence in the American voting Public to get McCain elected versus Obama. | |
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| Obama ducking sniper fire?
Posted: 5/29/2008 1:03:54 PM | Carter was NOT a disaster!
Aside from the mess in Iran, instigated by the CIA's removal of their leader in 1953, his foriegn policy went well. He gave Panama back the canal, that so many Panamanians died to create. The Cold War eased with the SALT II treaty. And Americans were respected abroad.
Wages increased as did inflation. But inflation is a GOOD thing, not bad!
What was bad is what happened during the Reagan Administration, with the deregulation of the savings and loan industry, busting of Unions and concentration of wealth.
If Carter was a 75% out of 100, Reagan is a 20 and Dubya is a 5. Carter was no disgrace before, during or after his administration. That you don't know the difference is a sad statement of your lack of understanding! | |
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| Obama ducking sniper fire?
Posted: 5/29/2008 1:11:00 PM |
Very factual and enlightened post nefarious!
LOL a copy and paste of an appeal to emotion, and massive historical revisionism. Of course you think it's factual and enlightened.
I mean the president who came after him only armed the Taliban right? and provided weapons to the Iranians AND the Iraqis.
Good call, good call. | |
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| Obama ducking sniper fire?
Posted: 5/29/2008 1:35:59 PM | Thanks Jedi
exodusi...yep Carter was a disaster alright. Thanks for the help with the shift key...works great. See...The algore...The obama...You are da man!!
K1ngmaker...what's copy and paste? You mean I don't have to retype these articles by hand? | |
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| Obama ducking sniper fire?
Posted: 5/29/2008 3:40:46 PM | This is now somehow some great embellishment/lie ?
A good example of how McCain's camp is desperate for straws to grasp. Another one is how McCain is still talking about the "sitting down with Iran's leaders" phrase. Save it for the debates and move on old fellow!
I liked what I heard today about Obama considering going to Iraq, though not necessarily with McCain. It indicates that he is not as closed minded as the Bush/McCain camp and is open to suggestions from outside sources. | |
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| Obama ducking sniper fire?
Posted: 5/29/2008 4:03:44 PM | | ^^That would probably be a smart move on his part, after all it's been only 872 days and counting since he was there last and it would be a good idea for him to see what is going on over there for himself. | |
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| Obama ducking sniper fire?
Posted: 5/29/2008 4:21:55 PM |
good idea for him to see what is going on over there for himself.
Sure, like McCain did with his 100+ troops surrounding him. All him or Bush know is what their kiss-a$$ people tell them..........what they want to hear.
Scott McClellan used to be one of those kiss-a$$e$, and then he stopped telling them what they wanted to hear so they got rid of him.
Obama is much closer to real people and when he does go over there, he will do his best to sit down with real people, and listen to them. | |
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| Obama ducking sniper fire?
Posted: 5/29/2008 5:48:14 PM | Sure hope you are right, and I'm very curious to see what his take will be on the state of things over there once he's been there and seen for himself what is going on. I think he should go soon, and personally I also think that he should take McCain up on his offer to go together.
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| Obama ducking sniper fire?
Posted: 5/29/2008 11:05:02 PM | To find out whats going on outside of Iraq, you'd have to leave the green zone.
Good freaking luck.
As for McCain knowing whats going on in Iraq...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6GBdyws5YU
McCain doesn't even know who is on what side over there. | |
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| Obama ducking sniper fire?
Posted: 5/29/2008 11:52:58 PM | Back on topic!
http://www.89infdivww2.org/
Concerning the service of Mr. Charles Payne: C.T. Payne was a soldier in the 89th Infantry Division. He served in the 355th Infantry Regiment, Company K. The 355th Infantry Regiment was the unit to liberate Ohrdruf. Mr. Payne was there.
He named the wrong concentration camp. But his uncle helped liberate a concentration camp. | |
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| Obama ducking sniper fire?
Posted: 5/30/2008 7:01:29 AM | The uncle according to all the genealogy is named Charles W. Payne, born 1924
NOT>>>>>>>>>>>>C. T Payne........
Charles W. Payne, born 1924, enlisted 10Nov42, Navy, 6293977 Registered, order #12019, Kansas City, Wyandotte Co., Board #4
Joined the navy..............
Obama said his grandfather enlisted in the Army the day after the bombing of Pearl Harbor is contradicted by Army........... He enlisted June 18, 1942
WAS PEARL ATTACKED ON JUNE 17th??????
This all sounds like he is ducking sniper bullets in Hawaii...... | |
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| Obama ducking sniper fire?
Posted: 5/30/2008 7:14:19 AM | Sounds like you are ducking facts, too.
I contacted the webmaster of the 89th Infantry Division site to see if I could get more information. He simply said that the site stands by its previous statement that Obama’s great uncle, Charles Thomas Payne, served in Company K of the 355rd Regiment of the 89th Infantry Division.
The sad thing is that people are taking this seriously as some sort of horrible sin committed by Obama. If you count this somehow as evidence that Barack Obama will make a bad president or that he is some sort of gaffe machine, I can only conclude that you’ve been comatose for the last decade.
http://hanlonsrazor.wordpress.com/2008/05/29/
obamas-great-uncle-and-the-shameless-nay-sayers/
From the history of the 89th Infantry Division:
The Ohrdruf hellhole was one of many sub camps of the nearby Buchenwald Concentration Camp outside of Weimar Germany, which is located about 32 miles ENE from Ohrdruf. The Buchenwald camp had been established back in 1938. Buchenwald had it all including an execution facility and crematorium.
The story now shifts to the 89th Recon Troop, a platoon leader of which sent me the following account. "My 2nd Platoon was reconnoitering ahead of the infantry regiment (355th) on that day and we came upon this complex and two German soldiers who were guarding the front gates. We shot and killed one, and the other ran off. Setting up a modest defense, we entered the compound and saw first hand the horror of life in a Nazi concentration camp. We radioed our troop headquarters for instructions and were told to remain there, keeping the inmates contained (this was hardly necessary, as most were in their bunks, hardly able to walk) while HQ contacted the infantry to relieve us. In less than three hours, the infantry (3rd Battalion, 355th Inf) arrived and we were sent on a new mission". Lastly, another member of our society who was in the 3rd Battalion of the 354th Infantry, advised me that shortly after the 355th Infantry took over the camp, the 3rd Battalion of the 354th replaced the 355th, also for only a short time. During these days, the 355th Infantry in its entirety had apparently been attached to the 4th Armored Division. All of this helps explain why both the 89th Division and the 4th Armored Division have been credited with liberation the Ohrdruf Concentration Camp.
Now, as to which of the two units described above that entered Ohrdruf Concentration Camp first on that day of April 4th; only the two fellows who corresponded with me on the subject of Ohrdruf can settle that one. We are talking about morning hours of April 4th. I have sent each of these fellows an advance copy of this story.
http://www.89infdivww2.org/ohrdruf/ohrdrufintro.htm
So the story is indeed based on fact. | |
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| Obama ducking sniper fire?
Posted: 5/30/2008 7:22:11 AM |
So the story is indeed based on fact. Not exactly, the fact is Obama referenced Aushwitz as it is probably the most recognizable names of the Concentration camps.Most of the times when people Lie or "misspeak" there is an element of truth,but their embellishment is a conscious choice...also if he didn't get the camp right or the other historical information what does that say about the rest of his story? Right, just like Hillary was in Bosnia did get off of a Helicopter etc..etc... Nice to see that your side is still continues to apply a double standard when it comes to Obama... | |
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| Obama ducking sniper fire?
Posted: 5/30/2008 7:23:11 AM | A relative of his was involved in the liberation of Buchenwald.
Which part of this don't you get ? | |
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| Obama ducking sniper fire?
Posted: 5/30/2008 7:34:10 AM |
Breaking: WHICH Obama "Uncle" was in the 89th Infantry?
Because the rosters of the 89th Infantry for the relevant time frame do NOT include a Charles W. Payne. Nor do they include EITHER of the appropriate Dunhams for it to have been Obama's grandfather or other great-uncle.
Right now this increasingly looks like someone is up a creek, without a paddle, caught with their glib mouth running. Look for further "explanations" from the Obama campaign, ones that change the story yet again.
It remains entirely possible that one of those three relatives was in theater when the camps were found and saw the horrors therein, but to date not one single version of the story has checked out. Not ONE.
More at Transterrestrial Musings. I am off to visit archives to check the Infantry Journal's 1947 Combat History of the 89th Infantry Division: 1942-1945, which includes complete unit rosters. While I'm at it I believe I'll check the 1930 census for some other verifications.
UPDATE: Obama supporters (but not the campaign) are pointing at CT Payne of the 355th/89th as being Uncle Charlie. The 1947-published rosters do indeed include CT Payne and the 89th Assoc. verifies he's alive and living in Chicago, God bless him, but that still doesn't make him the Charles W of Augusta, KS. Charles Payne was a common name, and that one was in the 89th is as startling as finding a Bob Smith in the NYC phone book. The electronic Census record I saw doesn't list a middle initial for Charles Payne son of Rolla Charles Payne. There is NO draft registration or enlistment record for a Charles T Payne in Kansas of the time, and the Charles Payne we're looking for would have been 17 at most at the time of Pearl Harbor, and most likely found in his home-town draft registration records. A 1941 city directory might be helpful.
http://stubbornfacts.us/politics/2008_election/breaking_which_obama_uncle_was_in_the_89th_infantry
What are the facts?
Pearl Attacked June...
Uncle is from Ill. That is where CT Payne of the 355th/89th was from.
Or
Obama just misspoke? | |
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| Obama ducking sniper fire?
Posted: 5/30/2008 7:36:06 AM | | The webmaster of the 89th Division confirmed the fact that the man was in the unit. | |
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