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| Wartime PTSD Up About 50% in 2007
Posted: 5/27/2008 10:13:44 PM | EXCUSE me..."thebestguyhere",
I would appreciate it, if you took your potty mouth to the toilet! The forum rules state NO cussing in the forums.
As far as for "us being there"; you have a right to your opinion (and your NOT even American); BUT little do you know! There are many nationality extremists fighting in Iraq that are NOT even Iraqs. The IED's and roadside bombs are NOT being placed by the local Iraqi people.
FYI, I do NOT support our war, NOW that Saddam has been tried, found guilty and sentence; but I do support ALL of our soldiers, especially those that are coming home with PTSD! | |
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| Wartime PTSD Up About 50% in 2007
Posted: 5/27/2008 11:19:47 PM | I saw a kid here on the evening news getting released from a rehab hospital after an explosion 3 weeks in Iraq left him with very severe brain injuries. He could barely walk and talk and faces a lifetime of severe disability. The angle of the story was the kid who wasn't expected to live, miracle surgeons, etc.
The news person asked where he wanted to go from there....... I found that to be incredibly insensitive.... just where is it you go with a lifetime of disability ahead at 19 years old?
He answered, "I just want to go home"....
Well, that's one kid who will never go home.........
And you have to ask: "why????????" | |
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| Wartime PTSD Up About 50% in 2007
Posted: 5/28/2008 12:41:30 AM | | No kidding Steven....that's exactly what I ask. Head injuries and loss of hearing (believe it or not) are also going to be just part of what we're seeing more of from surviving IED's. I had a vet in my class last semester who was just brilliant, literally picked up anything I lectured on immediately. He was also status post closed head injury and it literally made me sick. I remember teaching the night of 911, watching students exit classes prematurely to go serve and now........coming back. We had better be ready for them........ | |
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| Wartime PTSD Up About 50% in 2007
Posted: 5/28/2008 2:21:19 AM |
You defend a group of people that will behead someone on video and share it with the rest of the world. The military has released an awful lot of video of death, destruction and dismemberment rained down on the population from the air.
Seems to me, neither is defensible.
Wartime PTSD Up About 50% in 2007 I wonder what the percentage is for the Iraqi civilians. | |
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| Wartime PTSD Up About 50% in 2007
Posted: 5/28/2008 2:25:09 AM | I just have one thing to say to my fellow Americans. We do not "own" this war.
I'm tired of Americans who seem to think that US political and military actions dont affect the rest of the world. Keep that in mind when you vote. | |
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| Wartime PTSD Up About 50% in 2007
Posted: 5/28/2008 4:16:10 AM | gimme a break now you want to blame all your issues and deaths on the iraqui people? hm well i can see how in perfect yanky world. all the enemies would just lay down and commit suicide, in an attempt to protect your soldiers from ptsd
do you even think about your ridiculous comments prior to writing them?
theres a cure for ptsd. instead of electing warmongers, try electing someone with a brain and the ability to talk out cultural issues rather than sending soldiers to kill everyone.
im still waiting for the survey that makes mention of whether these soldiers are already suffering from ptsd prior to even being sent to invasions. and damn rights they deserve to suffer, after all they have killed people, that isnt a natural act.it isnt natural for one man to actually want to go and kill other people, unless you already are a maniac to begin with | |
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| Wartime PTSD Up About 50% in 2007
Posted: 5/28/2008 4:31:51 AM | | unforyunately- this is an example of what we have or will give in order to keep civilian life safe from bombings and rogue planes. There is no punnisment worse than one that affects the mechanics of one's mind. It is what I think hell must be like. It's hot as hell and you are subjected to the same gory details over and over again. I feel sorry for all the poor saps that came back from 'NAM only to get called muderers, spat on and were locked out of the job market. The movie rambo never meant as much to me untill I found myself in the army. Civilians see it as nothing but another action movie- I see the point behind the mayhem. | |
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| Wartime PTSD Up About 50% in 2007
Posted: 5/28/2008 4:46:54 AM | | hey troublemakr look. We are attempting to hunt down the people that are responsible for killing our children, mothers, fathers, wives, and husbands. Unfortunately it's in a land where their children are brainwashed into believing that they will have a bunch of virgins waiting for them when they kill themselves. This whole war is extreemly crazy and nobody likes it cuz everybody including the hire ups sees what the byproduct of war is. What we are actually fighting is a religion that's hell bent on killing alot of people. Warmongers? Hmmmmmmm- I don't see any warmongers on any election boards- I've only seen men and women doing what they can to keep you civilians alive. So before yo go off trying to start your own little civil war and creating more casualties and being counter productive, try thinking about your friends that went to the war and see if they could use some help getting back to normal eh? | |
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| Wartime PTSD Up About 50% in 2007
Posted: 5/28/2008 7:05:51 AM | Here's my opinion.
I believe the US and her allies are currently in Iraq attempting to rebuild and prepare a country for it's own autonomy as well as defend against those who would seek to return that country to the dark ages. I think in some respects we're fighting what liberals might consider a far right conservative movement with muslim extreemists.
As far as terrorism is concerned there may not have been any terrorists in Iraq prior to the fall of Sadaam but there are plenty of them there now. Iraq in a weakened state you could say would be up for grabs if we were to leave any time soon. I expect that the US will maintain a presence there for a very long time. The differences between the Shia, Sunni and Kurds are all affected by the presence of western civilization and in time western culture, with it's concepts of freedom and equality will impact the existing culture. I believe many of the perceptions of those in the middle east who think western civilization is evil are born out of ignorance and fear and that our mere presence there has a great promise to change that for the better. In this way terrorism as we know it will eventually become a thing of the past.
The notion of that occurence of PTSD in returning soldiers is a reason for leaving Iraq
is kind of like quitting a job because a co worker said they didn't like you.
I think the reports of the frequency of PTSD in returning soldiers are an indication of a need for improvement with regard to military service and the manner in which a soldier returns to civilian life. Training is well provided in preparation for battle and it's mandatory but currently when a soldier returns services are only offered and for many accepting those services is considered a sign of weakness and couple that with being eager to return home many opt to forego those services. That is the issue at hand regarding the article posted. The Military is addressing this issue. It's my opinion that re-entry programs should be mandatory and soldiers should be re-trained prior to returning to civilian life so that these and other issues are dealt with. | |
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| Wartime PTSD Up About 50% in 2007
Posted: 5/28/2008 7:13:36 AM | The problem with PTSD ( or so I see it) is the fact of a military stretched thin in Iraq by overextension. That's the reason for the stress on the troops involved. Long rotations in, stop loss, etc....
This can't continue for much longer.
One cannot afford to lose these numbers of men from the military for prolonged periods of time, especially as many of them are the most experienced on the ground there. I would doubt that they could be treated while there in any real way, and that sending them back too quickly after treatment risks damaging them even more.
We are even seeing high numbers of these cases in the Canadian troops returning from Afghanistan. | |
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| Wartime PTSD Up About 50% in 2007
Posted: 5/28/2008 7:16:01 AM | Yes, I don’t know how anyone could possibly be surprised by these sort of findings.
Maybe it is possible for some to kill and to witness the killings of little children and other fellow human beings without a problem, but most times humans can not make it through something like that without much damage to every part of them, to the depths of their souls.
War is often not taken as seriously as it should be…it is pretended to be but, mostly by those who have not seen any of the carnage.
Yes, I know I have not seen it myself, but I have a grandmother who has and I am a human being like any other and it doesn’t take a brain surgeon to get the whole entire brutal picture.
That is why, PTSD or whatever you want to call it, whether or not a licenced psychiatrist would call it that or would categorize it as serious or not, there is damage done. | |
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| Wartime PTSD Up About 50% in 2007
Posted: 5/28/2008 5:03:31 PM | We are attempting to hunt down the people that are responsible for killing our children, mothers, fathers, wives, and husbands. Unfortunately it's in a land where their children are brainwashed into believing that they will have a bunch of virgins waiting for them when they kill themselves
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hmm noone fromiraq set foot on american soild or killed anyone i know or am related to
the only ones killing children mothers fathers wives and husbands are the morons that invaded a foreign country
to be honest ive never even heard anythign at all about an iraq /american invasion plan .the country where they brainwash their kids is called the united states, why else would you be defending a pointless invasion
you are soldiers, you goto war. this isnt a war its an invasion, therefore you are going against the purpose set out for you by the american taxpayers
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this whole war is extreemly crazy and nobody likes it cuz everybody including the hire ups sees what the byproduct of war is.
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yes the byproduct of invasion is the warmongers get rich by selling arms to the morons that are fighting and killing people. and the industrialists get resources at bargain basement prices because they get to set up a yank friendly government in a previously anti yank country
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I've only seen men and women doing what they can to keep you civilians alive
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thats the biggest joke yet
you arent protecting the american people or canadian people
you are protecting the rich peoples money and the rich peoples oil futures
save that we do it all for you speech for someone a little less realistic
thats like saying im going to work everyday just so my tax dollars can support the military so you should respect me for my contribution to your upkeep
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So before yo go off trying to start your own little civil war and creating more casualties and being counter productive, try thinking about your friends that went to the war and see if they could use some help getting back to normal eh?
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actually i dont waste energy on people that are willing to murder other people at the behest of some fascist.
my brother was in the military here
i wouldnt waste a moment on him , as far as im concerned he gets what he deserves if he opts to go somewhere to kill other peoples children
as far as beingcounter productive tho , by your continuing to allow these people to use you as cannon fodder you are enabling them to continue to erode your freedoms and rights of all your fellow countrymen
if instead the military did what ir was intended to do as in defend the united states . then you all would have even higher quality of life there now
instead of the military helping the people suffering in your own country ie katrina victims, earthquake victims etc you are off ruining the lives of innocent people on the other side of the globe | |
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| Wartime PTSD Up About 50% in 2007
Posted: 5/28/2008 7:20:05 PM |
I would appreciate it, if you took your potty mouth to the toilet! The forum rules state NO cussing in the forums.
Pissing ? too funny doesn't even get edited in here ? shitting doesn't either ? you ssimply didn't like the truth of the statement since it goes against your belief of silliness. | |
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| Wartime PTSD Up About 50% in 2007
Posted: 5/29/2008 4:45:25 PM |
im sure montreal guy, old mike, exodus , simma donna, crash, frank p all heartily agree and cant wait to either sign up themselves or their kinfolk.
As a polite liberal, I say:
After you. | |
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| Wartime PTSD Up About 50% in 2007
Posted: 5/29/2008 5:06:10 PM |
yes the byproduct of invasion is the warmongers get rich by selling arms to the morons that are fighting and killing people.
You do realize that Canada is a major manufacturer and exporter of ammunition to the US military? I understand you think you have the American psyche pegged, it probably helps you to feel like you have some sort of control over things. Perhaps the gist of your advice (America should just mind it's own business) can also be applied to Canadians? Pot, kettle, and all that? | |
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| Wartime PTSD Up About 50% in 2007
Posted: 5/29/2008 7:19:44 PM | You do realize that Canada is a major manufacturer and exporter of ammunition to the US military?
I don't remember hearing anyone in here defending Harper ? He's just a big of a freak as GWB. | |
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| Wartime PTSD Up About 50% in 2007
Posted: 5/29/2008 7:19:51 PM | oh so because i didnt specify individuals ,you feel you can enlightn me on canadas contribution to the american genocidal conquest of iraq?
and somehow in your limited mind you think i should feel insulted?
i dont , maybe when you learn to read , and look back in posts ive made you will ralize i am anti war , regardless of who is doing it
even tho the united states isnt at war and hasnt been since ww2
even then they were still not truly at war, they were just protecting their assets. thats why they came in at the end and bombed everything but the factories their rich american financiers owned
they didnt bomb auschwitz because it was owned by them as well
i thought you americans were almighty and reqd nothing from anyone.
so do tell what type of ammunition it is that is sold to the americans? after all from what i hear all the red necks down there think that we canadians are nothing more than peace keepers and a cheap supply of oil and narural reources
exactly what your comment had to do with the op i dont know | |
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| Wartime PTSD Up About 50% in 2007
Posted: 5/29/2008 7:48:47 PM | | MG; By definition PTSD requires an initial Trauma which in some people results in a stress disorder afterward. It has to do with working through or processing some event percieved as horrid. A long or extended rotation likely will increase stress and lead to burnout but those are not causative for PTSD. I don't know if you've seen the beheading of Daniel Pearle, I have not, but several of those I know who have experienced difficulty getting the images out of their heads; insomnia, nightmares, feeling on edge etc are symptoms of PTSD but to a much lesser extent than seeing something like that in person. | |
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| Wartime PTSD Up About 50% in 2007
Posted: 5/29/2008 7:58:04 PM |
You do realize that Canada is a major manufacturer and exporter of ammunition to the US military?
Actually, Canada privitized it's ammunition factories.
Title : Lessons from the North: Canada's Privatization of Military Ammunition Production
Corporate Author : RAND NATIONAL DEFENSE RESEARCH INST SANTA MONICA CA
Abstract : The U.S. Army owns more than a dozen plants that today manufacture ammunition, ammunition components, and other ordnance materiel such as gun tubes and gun mounts. Some 70 completely private plants, at which the Army spends roughly two-thirds of its ammunition dollars, complement this government-owned base. In contrast, during the period 1965-86, Canada privatized all its government-owned munitions plants, achieving beneficial results. This report is a companion to Rethinking Governance of the Army's Arsenals and Ammunition Plants, a report published by the RAND Corporation's Arroyo Center (Hix et al., 2003b). That report recommends that the Army privatize most of its government-owned ammunition plants and divest of two of its arsenals. This case study addresses the applicability of Canada's experience should the United States decide to follow the Canadian example by privatizing its ammunition plants along the lines of RAND's earlier recommendations. Familiarity with the earlier report is essential to a thorough appreciation of the context in which this case study's findings and recommendations are made.
http://stinet.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix
=html&identifier=ADA426609
The Canadian Experience
Canada turned its ammunition production over to private providers over a period of several years. Today, that production base consists of modern, efficient production facilities that earn most of their revenues from sales to other countries, while still providing the Canadian military with its needed munitions. This result suggests that the Canadian experience might offer useful lessons for the United States.
Canada Is Not the United States — but Does It Matter?
Canada differs from the United States along many dimensions. The Canadian military is about one-twentieth the size of that of the United States and, NATO membership notwithstanding, it focuses on domestic defense. Political differences are equally large.
Some would argue that these very substantial differences render the Canadian example moot. RAND analysis suggests otherwise. While the U.S. ammunition base is much larger than that of Canada, in reality it employs a relatively small number of government workers, who operate only 3 of 14 ammunition plants. Government employment at the other plants is small, generally consisting of a handful of government employees who administer contracts and attend to safety and command and control matters. While the privatization process might be more complicated politically, procedures used in Canada could also work in the United States. Furthermore, some of the same issues addressed in the Canadian privatization effort would have to be dealt with in the United States, e.g., employees with vested government benefits and environmental liabilities.
Insights from the Canadian Experience
The Canadian government is satisfied with the results of the privatization. Privatization of Canada’s ammunition industry has had positive economic results, and thus the Canadian government has no interest in returning the plants to government ownership. Despite a sharp drop in government ammunition purchases, employment and production at all three plants that produce ammunition have increased since privatization, and the plants’ global market share has increased dramatically. At the same time, plant productivity has improved, lowering prices to the government.
The smaller relative scale of the Canadian privatization does not invalidate the Canadian experience for the United States. The positive outcomes the Canadians report — higher employment and lower prices — resulted from the incentives owners had after privatization to expand their business base, not from the relatively small size of the base. In fact, the larger U.S. government procurement could provide even greater opportunities for efficiencies and savings than are possible in the relatively modest Canadian ammunition budget.
Competition, buyers, and contract types matter. The company that bought the ammunition plants enjoys a near-monopoly in providing munitions to the Canadian government, but it must also compete in often protectionist international markets. As a result, the Canadian government benefits from the increased productivity and efficiency that occur as a result of competitive pressures. The size of the U.S. market and the number of U.S. manufacturers would likely result in competition even for government contracts after privatization of U.S. plants. When the Canadian government decided to privatize its ammunition production, it invited only a few highly qualified firms to bid. It was more interested in ensuring reliable, responsible manufacturing than it was in generating the highest possible proceeds. A similar approach might serve the United States as well in any future privatization. Finally, the Canadian government discovered that its traditional cost-plus contracts lacked incentives for improved productivity. When government purchases declined and the firm decided that it needed to grow its international business to survive, the government agreed to new contract types that provided incentives for the firm to become more efficient and productive.
Conclusions
The process of moving a large segment of the Army’s industrial base into the private sector represents major change. However, the benefits can be substantial, and, as the Canadian experience illustrates, such a change will not jeopardize the Army’s ability to meet the nation’s security needs.
http://rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB9048/index1.html
SNC Tech (probably the largest Canadian supplier of ammunition to the USA) was sold off to General Dynamics.
Montreal: February 23, 2006
SNC-LAVALIN AGREES TO SELL SNC TECHNOLOGIES INC.
SNC-Lavalin announced today that it has agreed to sell its shares in its wholly owned subsidiary, SNC Technologies Inc.(SNC TEC) to General Dynamics for CAN$315 million.
The transaction announced today is subject to Canadian government approval and regulatory approvals in Canada, the U.S. and in Europe.
SNC TEC manufactures small, medium and large calibre ammunition, and produces Simunition training systems. EXPRO TEC, SNC TEC’s subsidiary manufactures extruded propellant for military purposes, as well as for sporting use and commercial application in the automobile airbag industry. SNC TEC clients include the Department of National Defence, police agencies across Canada, law enforcement agencies and armed forces in other NATO countries, and the U.S. Department of Defense. Revenues from SNC TEC represent less than 10% of SNC-Lavalin Group’s total revenues on an annual basis.
http://www.snclavalin.com/en/8_0/8_1_1.aspx?id=190
September 30, 2004
Canadian Company Manufactures Bullets for War in Iraq
The Dominion - http://www.dominionpaper.ca
SNC Technologies Inc., based in Le Gardeur, Québec, is under contract to supply the US military with 300 to 500 million bullets per year in a contract that could potentially run for five years. The occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq are of course taking longer than initially expected, and the US manufacturers cannot keep up with the demand for ammunition, so SNC's bullets have become part of Bush's "war on terror."
SNC, according to its website, has annual revenues of CAD$266 million, and it is also the sole military ammunition producer in Canada. SNC supplies the Canadian Department of National Defence with 70% of its ammunition and also sends its products to several companies across Europe, the Middle East, the Far East, Australia, and New Zealand.
So that company is now owned by Americans.
May 30, 2001
President Bush to Announce Eight Individuals to Serve in His Administration
The President intends to nominate Michael W. Wynne to be Deputy Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition and Technology. He is presently the Chairman and CEO of the Ixata Group based in San Diego, California. From 1997 to 1999, Wynne was Senior Vice President for International Planning and Business Development for General Dynamics.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/05/20010530-3.html
He also selected Gordon England, vice president of General Dynamics, for Navy secretary .
May 31, 2001
As General Dynamics' executive vice president, England held more than 71,000 shares of the firm's stock valued at $5.3 million in January, according to federal records. England and the others will be forced by the Senate Armed Services Committee to sell their stock as well as investments in any other defense-related companies.
The rules assume that once the stock is sold the potential for any conflict of interest is then legally eliminated.
During his Senate confirmation hearing, England did not seem to understand those ground rules. When asked, England said he would refuse to make decisions about certain topics involving General Dynamics. "So if there's a conflict with prior knowledge or involvement, then I would certainly recuse myself," England said. "I can't do this for my whole tenure, of course." England's response annoyed the ranking Democrat on the Armed Services panel, Michigan Sen. Carl Levin. Levin wants England to watch out for General Dynamics programs vital to his state. "We need to work with you to exactly define your role in those decisions affecting General Dynamics," he said.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/0601-03.htm | |
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| Wartime PTSD Up About 50% in 2007
Posted: 10/15/2008 6:49:51 AM | I find trubblemaker's comments to be disturbing. As someone in a relationship with a veteran who suffers from PTSD, I've experienced the effects it has had on his life. I've heard stories about some things that happened.
Something you need to remember is that the US is looked at as the world leader. Whether the government wants that title or not, that is what we are. I know that many will say this current war is fought over oil or some hidden agenda the public doesn't know about. I have found that wars are generally started for one of two reasons; the hunger for power (IE, Hitler, Hussein, etc.) or religion (Muslim vs. Christians, Jews vs. Muslims).
PTSD has been around since the beginning but has been referred to by different terms. Shell shocked or PTSD, it's all the same. I am more shocked that the numbers aren't higher for those diagnosed. How can a human experience what happens in war and not be affected? The person I am seeing is greatly affected by PTSD and all he wants is help. He doesn't drink, abuse drugs or have violence issues. He tries hard every night to go to bed in a calm state hoping that that night, he'll make it through without the horrible nightmares; remembering the faces of those in pain, those he had to shoot in order to protect his company, his family back home, his country.
He has the strongest sense of duty of any individual I've ever met. That is something you, Trubblemaker and the others on this forum who have posted negative comments do not have. When he signed up, he knew full well that he might not ever come home. If someone came into your town and started to kill all the members of society from one particular group, would you stand by and let them do it?
Tell you what Trubblemaker, you and the others on here complaining about soldiers spend three days out in the rain with blisters on your feet that are bleeding, your only bed is the ground and your blanket is your poncho and there's an inch of water standing around you. If that doesn't do it, jump out of a plane 1500 feet from the ground and slam into it because if you jump much higher, they'll shoot you out of the air. Be an army ranger, at times they jump 500 feet from the ground and you do the physics, you hit the ground in approximately 2 to 3 seconds. My boyfriend doesn't whine and **** that anyone made him do this.
I'd give anything in the world to make the PTSD go away for him. I am proud of him for serving his country so honorably and all the others who have been right there with him. While I do not support this current war and neither does he, I do support the troops who are there giving of themselves and their families who suffer along with them.
Shame on all of you on here who want to disrespect these individuals. Funny, they'll still go out and fight to protect your freedoms even though in my mind you don't deserve it. | |
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| Wartime PTSD Up About 50% in 2007
Posted: 10/16/2008 8:00:54 AM | PTSD is not just a wartime disorder. Many civilians who have suffered traumatic abusive experiences display the same behaviours as soldiers. However, right now, the main way that PTSD is treated is just to put you on drugs, which numbs the mind and makes it difficult to think straight. Therapy is provided, but the first requirement is to stabilise the patient, and drugs are used for that. However, therapy tends to be so over-subscribed, in that there are far more patients requesting therapy than available therapists, that patients are often kept waiting for years, and in the meantime, they are on these drugs. Soldiers on such drugs would find it difficult to obey orders without hesitation, as the drugs tend to project a kind of "mental fog", so although you can get to reasonable conclusions, it takes several minutes, and those minutes would cost lives under fire. So it makes it very difficult for people to react to new circumstances quickly, and so they cannot be required to continue with their duties.
In addition, the acknowledgement that these soldiers suffered PTSD through their deployment, would mean that the armed services would have to foot the bill for their treatment and their financial welfare until they are well. However, doctors don't give any definite answers as to how long it might take to cure someone, and many PTSD sufferers may remain on financial support for the rest of their lives. That would be an enormous drain of their budget, for years and years to come, for every sufferer.
So I can well imagine that the armed services don't want to declare many thousands of soldiers with PTSD, because they would have to discharge these soldiers, but still pay for their finances, for many years to come.
That doesn't make it right, though. | |
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