|
|
|
|
|
| What do you think of Former Press Secretary McClellan's book? Posted: 5/30/2008 3:22:03 AM | | One of the things I think is interesting is that the right is pretty much attacking his character, but they are not really refuting any of the statments in the book, are they? They are saying Oh poor Scott.....this is not the Scott we know and love....but where is the outrage at the claims made in the book? They are more upset that he broke ranks than they are outraged at the facts he addresses. Wonder why that is. | |
|
| What do you think of Former Press Secretary McClellan's book? Posted: 5/30/2008 3:31:25 AM | | While the Dems sit back and eat their popcorn, they allow the Rep spin machine go to work. They need to jump on the statement that McClellan made on the Today Show wth regards to how the White House is "compartmentalized" with only a few people knowing what is actually going on. That's known as an OLIGARCHY. Our government is no longer a democracy with regards to foreign policy. | |
|
| What do you think of Former Press Secretary McClellan's book? Posted: 5/30/2008 6:24:50 AM |
I am looking forward to reading the book and believe it will contain alot of truth and some exaggeration.
Do you think he is full of BS?
I think he is a guy with a book to sell and the way to do that is to generate controversy. True or not really doesn't matter in today's political climate. | |
|
| What do you think of Former Press Secretary McClellan's book? Posted: 5/30/2008 7:36:49 AM |
There is a connection with George Soros and Peter Osnos and McClellan and his book, and Vincent Bugliosi,
... and for a while there i thought i wouldn't be able to find a salient point in your whole post but then there it was... and you're right! they are all alleging Bush et al to be criminals!!
... and i noticed you find nothing to say which is false about his claims ..... attack the messenger .... good GOPer... you get a scoobie snack.
... is there a right wing rehab opened yet? it must be so hard to vote for these criminals twice and still do math these days... but God Bless the Republifacists Theocratic Oligarchy!!
repeat the GOP mantra of the day with me "This is not happening. This is not happening. This is not happening........" | |
|
| What do you think of Former Press Secretary McClellan's book? Posted: 5/30/2008 9:09:16 AM | I was watching Richard Clarke on The Daily Show last night. He wrote his "scathing tell-all book" while McClellan was still the Press Secretary. At the time, McClellan was engaging in the same discrediting rhetoric against Clarke that is now being used against McClellan. Oh, how the shoe is on the other foot now!
How many "disgruntled" former employees need to come forward before the last 25% and the overly hawkish "bomb Irannites" get it? | |
|
| What do you think of Former Press Secretary McClellan's book? Posted: 5/30/2008 10:05:32 AM |
the right is pretty much attacking his character, but they are not really refuting any of the statments in the book, are they? No they don't. And whenever they try to refute his conclusions, their spin is thrown back in their face if the interviewer knows his or her facts.
They fan out on the cable shows to trash McClellan for being disloyal and at the same time they seem to think getting bunches of people killed for no good reason is not nearly enough of an offense that any of them should be held accountable for it. Criminals, liars, scumbags, Nazis, pick your favorite profanity and it applies to all of those immoral bstard cowards and their ignorant base of supporters as well.
Whew. Better now.
 | |
|
| What do you think of Former Press Secretary McClellan's book? Posted: 5/30/2008 10:48:37 AM | I haven't read it, but it's my impression that it consists of his personal opinions and doesn't contain backup documentation. He didn't help develop policies, he was the messenger. Unlike Douglas Feith, a person who actually did attend the meetings and wrote a recent, meatier book that didn't rate a Today Show/NBC/MSNBC Book Tour.
In the preface of the book he states that in the process of writing, he constantly questioned his assumptions and his own interpretation of events. He said over the past several months he wrestled with his experiences to find himself much closer to his truth than ever before. So what happened, did the wrestling ref blow the whistle before he actually got to his truth? Was he in the neighborhood if not at the exact address of his truth? Notice that he calls it "his" truth, not the truth.
None of this means it won't be an interesting book to read, even if it is just his personal interpretation of events. The breathless media circus is just a big turnoff though and reminds me of late 2004 when they did the same thing over a Kitty Kelly book about Bush. | |
|
| What do you think of Former Press Secretary McClellan's book? Posted: 5/30/2008 1:25:58 PM | it's my impression that it consists of his personal opinions and doesn't contain backup documentation. If someone is witness to a rape, should he have to have documentation to take the stand for the prosecution? I didn't think so.
I'd like to see any of these Admininstration officials dare to come out and debate McClellan about the information in the book. He is far more eloquent and well spoken than all these chumps, and in the world of politics...eloquence is your sword.
For all the skeptics who claim that McClellan waited until an opportune time to make a buck, remember that the guy left the administration in 2006...it's only 2008. How long would it take you to write a book that you know everyone in the free world is going to sift through and scutinize? | |
|
| What do you think of Former Press Secretary McClellan's book? Posted: 5/30/2008 3:35:47 PM |
If someone is witness to a rape, should he have to have documentation to take the stand for the prosecution? I didn't think so.
I'd like to see any of these Admininstration officials dare to come out and debate McClellan about the information in the book. He is far more eloquent and well spoken than all these chumps, and in the world of politics...eloquence is your sword.
Witness to a rape? More like he was a participant in consensual sex, and defended it daily for years. Although I've never heard him accused of being eloquent and well spoken, even on his best days. You must have him confused with Tony Snow! | |
|
| What do you think of Former Press Secretary McClellan's book? Posted: 5/30/2008 3:37:57 PM |
he fact is... retired generals, intelligence officers and now the former press sect keep spewing out books that are critical to the Bush administration.
I think it's time you realized that a good portion of this adminstration belongs behind bars for so many crimes I don't even want to begin to list.
As Freud said - "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar". More simply, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, yada yada yada. It's always unfortunate that when some people see the handwriting on the wall, their knee jerk reaction (like Pavlov's dogs) is to call it a forgery. Fortunately, for those of us more grounded in reality, it doesn't change the facts. "Puzzled"? Indeed.
I think it would be most interesting to see the ways in which McClellan is personally discredited.
Oh it will happen wait for it. The press will pounce on it and here is the headline in advance from all the republican blogs: "Famous publisher of McClellan's book has disclosed that his nieces friend's classmate's mother has a cleaning girl whose sister once attended Obama's church". Be afraid people. Be very afraid. | |
|
| What do you think of Former Press Secretary McClellan's book? Posted: 5/30/2008 3:56:03 PM | Auricirra, I see where you're coming from. I saw McClellan on Keith Olbermann last night, and he addressed those concerns. He was not a policy maker, but he was in on a lot of the meetings...until they redefined the role of the press secretary to not be included in some meetings. That's some insight right there, someone mentioned oligarchy above. He talked about how you live in a bubble-and the truth of what Bush was becoming was hard for him to see (or come to terms with, not sure there) because he was so loyal to Bush. He was with Bush in Texas and was so proud of his bipartisanship and the good things he did in Texas, and even Bush himself is so far in the web of it all he doesn't see it from an outsiders' perspective. But even though he wasn't in meetings, he had to clarify a lot of things before going in front of the press. When the whole CIA leak came out, and when Bush was matter of fact about the fact that he was responsible for it, is when McClellan finally said "I can't handle this anymore".
I think we'll get a lot of insights on the personal dynamics and private conversations that took place in his years there. (p.s. it's not available till June 19th--my pre-order has been placed with Amazon!!) | |
|
| |
| What do you think of Former Press Secretary McClellan's book? Posted: 5/30/2008 4:12:54 PM | does he realize he's talking about treason?
I believe he does. Keith had John (?) Dean on after McClellan, the guy who pretty much blew the whistle on Nixon. The difference with Dean was that most of his info came out during a trial...would that it could only be the case here.
He's going to be on Chris Matthews' Hardball on Monday night, and also sometime this weekend on Tim Russert.
| |
|
| |
| What do you think of Former Press Secretary McClellan's book? Posted: 5/30/2008 5:05:59 PM | And maybe testifying in Congress soon, in front of the House Judiciary Committee.....
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Former White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan said Friday that he would be willing to comply with a possible congressional subpoena to discuss the administration's handling of prewar intelligence, telling CNN's Wolf Blitzer he'd be "glad to share my views" if asked to testify.
Rep. Robert Wexler, D-Florida, said Friday that McClellan, who left the White House in 2006, would be able to provide valuable insight into a number of issues under investigation by the House Judiciary Committee.
The committee is looking into the use of prewar intelligence, whether politics was behind the firing of eight U.S. attorneys in 2006 and the leaking of CIA operative Valerie Plame Wilson's identity, Wexler, a senior member of the Judiciary Committee, said.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/30/mcclellan.wolf.interview/index.html
This should be interesting. | |
|
| |
| |
| What do you think of Former Press Secretary McClellan's book? Posted: 5/30/2008 7:53:01 PM | Some more tidbits to savour :
McClellan backs some of Obama's agenda
"Some of what Obama says, his overall message, is very similar to the one we ran on in 2000 about changing the way Washington works and what I had so much hope in," said McClellan, who became the White House press secretary in 2003 after serving as spokesman for President Bush when he was the governor of Texas.
"But it's a very difficult thing to do, and I hope some of the Obama staff will take a look at [McClellan's book] and consider what they need to do if they become president."
Speaking with Cooper, McClellan responded to one of the harshest criticisms he faced this week, from former senator and Republican presidential candidate Bob Dole.
Dole reportedly sent McClellan an e-mail saying every presidential administration has "miserable creatures like you ... who don't have the guts to speak up or quit if there are disagreements with the boss or colleagues."
The message accuses McClellan of reveling in the attention he received at the White House then cashing in with his book.
"I have great respect for Sen. Dole -- he's a great public servant and someone who has served in the military as well and someone who actually did try to work across the aisle with Democratic leaders at times, back before things got so bitterly partisan in Washington, D.C.," McClellan said.
"But I would encourage him to see what I say in the book before he makes those comments."
What they need to do ?  | |
|
| |
| What do you think of Former Press Secretary McClellan's book? Posted: 5/31/2008 3:33:13 AM | Just maybe, we'll actually get a former executive prosecution out of all this, one way or another.. Doubtful but possible.. In order to restore faith in our system of politics, I certainly hope so.
Too bad Pelosi sold out regarding impeachment, some time ago. All things considered, she shouldn't have been allowed that level of congressional authority.
In any case, prosecution would do a lot of American hearts good!
-Suth'nBoy 
| |
|
| What do you think of Former Press Secretary McClellan's book? Posted: 5/31/2008 3:53:59 AM | As much as most would have loved to see it, impeachment isn't something that would sell...even now, and that's damned unfortunate. It requires more spine than can be found in the hallowed halls of congress these days. But to protect us next time, I would certainly like to see gross incompetence added to the list of impeachable offenses. I would like to see repeated and manifest ineptitude, poor planning, poor execution, poor judgment. Let's just cover everything he's done to be on the safe side. The words are "high crimes and misdemeanors".
Here is an interesting discourse on just what that means:
Meaning of "High Crimes and Misdemeanors" by Jon Roland, Constitution Society
The question of impeachment turns on the meaning of the phrase in the Constitution at Art. II Sec. 4, "Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors". I have carefully researched the origin of the phrase "high crimes and misdemeanors" and its meaning to the Framers, and found that the key to understanding it is the word "high". It does not mean "more serious". It refers to those punishable offenses that only apply to high persons, that is, to public officials, those who, because of their official status, are under special obligations that ordinary persons are not under, and which could not be meaningfully applied or justly punished if committed by ordinary persons.
Under the English common law tradition, crimes were defined through a legacy of court proceedings and decisions that punished offenses not because they were prohibited by statutes, but because they offended the sense of justice of the people and the court. Whether an offense could qualify as punishable depended largely on the obligations of the offender, and the obligations of a person holding a high position meant that some actions, or inactions, could be punishable if he did them, even though they would not be if done by an ordinary person.
Offenses of this kind survive today in the Uniform Code of Military Justice. It recognizes as punishable offenses such things as refusal to obey orders, abuse of authority, dereliction of duty, moral turpitude, and conduct unbecoming. These would not be offenses if committed by a civilian with no official position, but they are offenses which bear on the subject's fitness for the duties he holds, which he is bound by oath or affirmation to perform.
Perjury is usually defined as "lying under oath". That is not quite right. The original meaning was "violation of one's oath (or affirmation)".
The word "perjury" is usually defined today as "lying under oath about a material matter", but that is not its original or complete meaning, which is "violation of an oath". We can see this by consulting the original Latin from which the term comes. From An Elementary Latin Dictionary, by Charlton T. Lewis (1895), Note that the letter "j" is the letter "i" in Latin.
periurium, i, n,, a false oath, perjury. periurus, adj., oath-breaking, false to vows, perjured. iuro, avi, atus, are, to swear, take an oath. iurator, oris, m., a swearer. iuratus, adj., sworn under oath, bound by an oath. ius, iuris, that which is binding, right, justice, duty. per, ... IV. Of means or manner, through, by, by means of, ... under pretense of, by the pretext of, ....
By Art. II Sec. 1 Cl. 8, the president must swear: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." He is bound by this oath in all matters until he leaves office. No additional oath is needed to bind him to tell the truth in anything he says, as telling the truth is pursuant to all matters except perhaps those relating to national security. Any public statement is perjury if it is a lie, and not necessary to deceive an enemy.
When a person takes an oath (or affirmation) before giving testimony, he is assuming the role of an official, that of "witness under oath", for the duration of his testimony. That official position entails a special obligation to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, and in that capacity, one is punishable in a way he would not be as an ordinary person not under oath. Therefore, perjury is a high crime.
An official such as the president does not need to take a special oath to become subject to the penalties of perjury. He took an oath, by Art. II Sec. 1 Cl. 8, to "faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States" and to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States" to the best of his ability. While he holds that office, he is always under oath, and lying at any time constitutes perjury if it is not justified for national security.
Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr erred in presenting in his referral only those offenses which could be "laid at the feet" of the president. He functioned like a prosecutor of an offense against criminal statutes that apply to ordinary persons and are provable by the standards of "proof beyond a reasonable doubt". That is not to say that such offenses are not also high crimes or misdemeanors when committed by an official bound by oath. Most such offenses are. But "high crimes and misdemeanors" also includes other offenses, applicable only to a public official, for which the standard is "preponderance of evidence". Holding a particular office of trust is not a right, but a privilege, and removal from such office is not a punishment. Disablement of the right to hold any office in the future would be a punishment, and therefore the standards of "proof beyond a reasonable doubt" would apply before that ruling could be imposed by the Senate.
It should be noted, however, that when an offense against a statute is also a "high crime or misdemeanor", it may be, and usually is, referred to by a different name, when considered as such. Thus, an offense like "obstruction of justice" or "subornation of perjury" may become "abuse of authority" when done by an official bound by oath. As such it would be grounds for impeachment and removal from office, but would be punishable by its statutory name once the official is out of office.
An executive official is ultimately responsible for any failures of his subordinates and for their violations of the oath he and they took, which means violations of the Constitution and the rights of persons. It is not necessary to be able to prove that such failures or violations occurred at his instigation or with his knowledge, to be able, in Starr's words, to "lay them at the feet" of the president. It is sufficient to show, on the preponderance of evidence, that the president was aware of misconduct on the part of his subordinates, or should have been, and failed to do all he could to remedy the misconduct, including termination and prosecution of the subordinates and compensation for the victims or their heirs. The president's subordinates include everyone in the executive branch, and their agents and contractors. It is not limited to those over whom he has direct supervision. He is not protected by "plausible deniability". He is legally responsible for everything that everyone in the executive branch is doing.
Therefore, the appropriate subject matter for an impeachment and removal proceeding is the full range of offenses against the Constitution and against the rights of persons committed by subordinate officials and their agents which have not been adequately investigated or remedied. The massacre at Waco, the assault at Ruby Ridge, and many, many other illegal or excessive assaults by federal agents, and the failure of the president to take action against the offenders, is more than enough to justify impeachment and removal from office on grounds of dereliction of duty. To these we could add the many suspicious incidents that indicate covered up crimes by federal agents, including the suspicious deaths of persons suspected of being knowledgeable of wrongdoing by the president or others in the executive branch, or its contractors.
The impeachment and removal process should be a debate on the entire field of proven and suspected misconduct by federal officials and agents under this president, and if judged to have been excessive by reasonable standards, to be grounds for removal, even if direct complicity cannot be shown.
Now why can't Ms. Pelosi simply read that and find something applicable. There's lots of jewels in there for the taking.
But practically speaking, there's simply no way a congress at this moment in history with everything that's going on right now with an election on top of it, impeachment, sadly, is just not going to happen and Bush's fate will be left to his god. | |
|
| What do you think of Former Press Secretary McClellan's book? Posted: 5/31/2008 10:37:05 AM | | that book is crap from a traitor. im sure benedict arnold was disappointed and had a few bad things to say about our government too. the dems will seize on it...oh the timing! but in the end its just crap. no real substance to mc clellans claims, claims are all they are. i wonder how much he made saying that crap? | |
|
| |
| What do you think of Former Press Secretary McClellan's book? Posted: 5/31/2008 11:15:20 AM |
If someone is witness to a rape, should he have to have documentation to take the stand for the prosecution? I didn't think so.
Umm... well, in this case, they could have the documentation but the Bush administration is refusing to comply with the court order, remember? | |
|
| What do you think of Former Press Secretary McClellan's book? Posted: 5/31/2008 12:01:53 PM | I remember McClellan being bold and straight-forward with reporters when he was the press secretary. He was critical of other tell books. Some White House staff claim he was a wussy. There were times that he was but most of the time he was pretty good. Perhaps because he was still in good standing with the President. The times he was a wussy were the times he was supposed to lash out at some two-faced Democrats wanting defeat in Iraq when they supported it from the beginning.
The book is not a smoking gun. Not even the liberal media have taken that notion as a few here have. They, the media, take it as McClellan being a turncoat, a rat and of being a disgruntled ex-employee. McClellan is not perceived as a whistle-blower in all the interviews by news network. Mainly because the book has nothing new that anti-Bush people have been singing since 2000. The difference is that McClellan, being a former White House press secretary, falls under the Judas Iscariot betrayer and in effect, receiving his 15 minutes of fame. His character is indeed question because no one likes a fink. His statements have been refuted. McClellan was kept out of the loop, he was never included in any of the meetings and therefore the book is nothing more than the same old talking points from lefty drama queens these past 8 years. Boring.
There will not be Congressional hearings. Democrats know McClellan will admit under pressure and oath, that the book's a joke, written with the assistance of publishing liberals. If anything, PBS's Frontline on Bush's War was a smoking gun and nothing was made of it. McClellan got his money from the publishers, he's been unemployed since being fired. Now the publishers are going to get their money back and profits from the book sales. Book sales to the little liberal guys thinking the book's a revelation from heaven. Too funny. | |
|
|
| Page 3 of 5
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5 |
|