| If Clinton Doesn't Get the Nomination...
Posted: 6/1/2008 9:36:07 PM | I'll admit...as I have already... that my vote goes to McCain based partly on my own Military background. A common thread so to speak.
Like Cotter said... there are those who openly state it. Those of us in Service Industries have seen it/see it and many of us have no problem with it..since it's honesty displayed. Nothing more or less.
I do not fault the Blacks who openly admit they vote based on Race. At least they are honest about it. It's the fakers who get me. You can read em a mile away. | |
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| If Clinton Doesn't Get the Nomination...
Posted: 6/1/2008 10:29:53 PM | "So your solution would be that the candidate who won the most votes"
by not counting quite a few of them from Michigan and Florida
" ran a better campaign"
with a LOT of help from the national media
"and won a majority of the delegates"
let's wait until they're all counted shall we?
" should bow out and concede to the candidate that he beat?"
Someone is calling for Obama to bow out? I don't think so.
" And if he doesn't do this, he's the sore loser?"
I'm having a hard time following your logic, it's beyond comical. Are you asking for Obama to bow out, cuz I'm not.
I am saying the Obama organization will be doing plenty of whining when Clinton supporters do not vote for him. Lots of complaining and gnashing of teeth that democrats will lose the white house if clinton supporters don't get behind obama. Like they don't have the right to vote their conscience.
It's not a "solution" it's an observation.
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| If Clinton Doesn't Get the Nomination...
Posted: 6/1/2008 10:33:10 PM | Cotter, I'm absolutely certain that there are more people against Obama because he's black than there are for him simply because he's black. I can't even count how many people I've talked to who hate him "cuz he's a Moslem" or some other racism-by-proxy BS reason....but who know NOTHING about the issues (or him) at all.
***************
But as for the question, as has been said many times before, IF Clinton were to decide (which she won't and wouldn't) to run as an Independent, it would (probably) destroy her career AND (surely) ensure a republican victory in November.
But even aside from that....I think that someone is missing the point of what running as an Independent means (or should mean). Lieberman's decision to run for his senate seat as an Independent wasn't that bizarre, because over the last few years he has departed more and more from democratic ideas.....because he's basically a neo-conservative. Clinton ISN'T. She's a democrat through and through, and so it doesn't make sense for her to leave her party to run as an Independent....at all! Sure, if you hate Obama enough you can fantasize about having her as an alternative candidate despite the fact that she's not going to have the nomination...but in one sense, this is what political parties are for: to have a set of ideas that groups can come together around and thus have influence in the political world even if you aren't always blessed with that influence being represented by the candidate of your choice.
I don't believe for a second that all these Clinton supporters swearing up and down that they won't vote for Obama will stick to that at the cost of seeing McCain into the White House. Perhaps some will....for visceral reasons of their own...but people who are really committed DEMOCRATS won't, because the stakes are too high and they know it. AND, even Clinton supporters who are committed DEMOCRATS might well be seriously put off her if she showed so little integrity and party loyalty as to stalk off in a huff and run as an Independent. Not only would she be offering McCain a red carpet into the WH by doing so...she'd also be basically saying that her agenda is wholly personal, her integrity is non-existent....
Don't get me wrong--IF she got the nomination I'd (an Obama supporter) vote for her. But if she did something as outrageous as what's being suggested here, in my view there would be NOTHING she could do to redeem herself....EVER. | |
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| If Clinton Doesn't Get the Nomination...
Posted: 6/1/2008 11:43:49 PM | Most of you do realize that Hillary Clinton was a very active Republican early on and switched to Democrat only when she met Bill Clinton.
Possibly this is why she had made the favorable statements about McCain. Their political views may not be as far apart as many think. Just an observation on my part. Nothing more or less. | |
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| If Clinton Doesn't Get the Nomination...
Posted: 6/1/2008 11:50:51 PM | ^^^ not true. She was raised a republican but left the republican party while still at Wellesley, having already worked on Eugene McCarthy's 1968 campaign before making the final break.
I don't really give a damn whether you want to suggest that she continues to harbor some republican points of view....(maybe you could identify them)...but you are implying a "weak woman changing for her man" kind of thing, which is insupportable. | |
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| If Clinton Doesn't Get the Nomination...
Posted: 6/2/2008 12:07:52 AM | Geez... nomadic... so I was wrong on the timing of her switch. Excccuuusssseee me.
I was simply offering up a tidbit of info. No slant to it at all. Where do you people come up with these ideas. Not everyone has a negative agenda here.
It never occurred to me of H. Clinton as a weak woman. I was referencing a timeframe... Nothing more or less. | |
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| If Clinton Doesn't Get the Nomination...
Posted: 6/2/2008 12:57:17 AM | If Clinton Doesn't Get the Nomination it would be happy days. No more Clintons. The Democrat party, despite all the new revelations about Obama, prefer Obama over Clinton. We all know she has had a good run due to her husband, Bill. So much for not being a weak woman. Everything has been handed to her. She has been the dumbest senator. She likes being patronized and has been by the Democrat male elite. That gravy train is over for her and she knows it.
If New Yorkers had not voted for her, there wouldn't be this mess in the Democrat party. New Yorkers are at fault for continuing the Clinton dynasty. She got that senate seat due to her husband. If not for husband, she would have been an unknown. Finally there would be no more Clintons. She won't run as an independent because all the votes for Obama was due to the disdain Democrat voters have for her, not just half the nation. Message 179 is the real reason she is disliked.
That kind of BS feminist thought is the main reason voters go for Obama. Remember now, Obama is not just inexperienced and more liberal than Clinton, he's ignorant and black. He's also tainted, courtesy of Jeremiah Wright. Obama's talking points reflects the same anti-American BS one hears from university liberal professors. You know, America is the blame for all the ills in the world crap.
Obama's favorability ratings among white women has declined significantly in recent months, particularly among Democrats and independents, presenting an immediate obstacle for the likely Democrat nominee as he moves to shore up his party's base. Forty-nine percent of white women view Obama unfavorably while only 43% hold a favorable opinion. In February, 36% of these women looked at Obama unfavorably while 56% had a positive perception of Obama. White women as a whole now prefer John McCain over Obama by 49% to 41%." Let's see. Look at who Obama is losing. He's losing blue-collar white voters in key states Democrats need to win. Now he's losing the white female vote, and yet what's on the verge of happening? The Democrat Party is going to nominate this guy as its presidential nominee. He is in a free fall. | |
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| If Clinton Doesn't Get the Nomination...
Posted: 6/2/2008 2:19:52 AM | The Democrat party, despite all the new revelations about Obama, prefer Obama over Clinton. We all know she has had a good run due to her husband, Bill. So much for not being a weak woman. Everything has been handed to her.
Really???  I guess that would include handing her all the relentless bashing by the anti-Hillary National Media.. Eh? So you think you could stand up and still thrive under that continual abusive onslaught?
-Suth'nBoy 
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| If Clinton Doesn't Get the Nomination...
Posted: 6/2/2008 3:33:28 AM | Tanbury, wow. You dream this stuff up during some FOX news trance?
I'm not even going to quote one or several things in that post that are factually incorrect or just flat out fabrication, because the whole post was just too rich.
I'd like you to show me one thing Obama said that was anti-American. Show us the demographics you're talking about where people are voting for him just because they don't care for Hillary. And I don't believe your statement that he's losing favor with women.
As far as him being "tainted, ignorant, and black"....I think that speaks for itself. Again, just wow. | |
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| If Clinton Doesn't Get the Nomination...
Posted: 6/2/2008 4:07:31 AM |
As far as him being "tainted, ignorant, and black"....I think that speaks for itself. Again, just wow. Okay ... I'm no Obama supporter (as is quite evident), but even that is too much for me.
Good grief ... it would be bad enough to think something like that, but to come right out and say it?
If Clinton Doesn't Get the Nomination... I've been sitting here trying to imagine how Obama could win some of us over if he absolutely did not put Clinton on the ticket with him. I really do think that putting her on the ticket with him would seal the deal as far as getting the majority of the Clinton supporters on board, and it would also assure him the swing states.
I suppose even offering her a cabinet position might inspire some of us to give him our vote as long as we know she will be active in there in some way. | |
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| If Clinton Doesn't Get the Nomination...
Posted: 6/2/2008 4:21:16 AM | Hi Cotter,
"Okay ... I'm no Obama supporter (as is quite evident), but even that is too much for me.
Good grief ... it would be bad enough to think something like that, but to come right out and say it?"
Again, sorry to disturb you, but you have saying something like that about the black people who are supporting Obama just because he is black, but they don't know anything about him. I know how to read, and that means: they are black and ignorant. I have tried to get you to reflect on that stance of yours, and I have seen other people here going after you for the same thing.
Now, so you don't see us as your enemies, many of us have been saying that Obama and Clinton should work to unite against McCain. The only problem I have is that I don't go along with the idea that if Clinton doesn't get the nomination, then we should vote for McCain, or that Clinton should run as an independent, because that amounts to handing the presidency to McCain. We need to keep the eyes on the ball. | |
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| If Clinton Doesn't Get the Nomination...
Posted: 6/2/2008 4:41:13 AM | | Sorry..you can't have it both ways either you hate Clinton or you don't...If Obama were to put Hillary on the ticket as VP it would prove to the nay sayers that Obama is really just an ordinary Politician that say or do anything to get elected.. So your side has no problem with trashing Hillary for the past year and then using her to get Obama elected...I guess it shows why you guys don't have a problem with all those who the Clintons helped turning their backs on them...Nah ,I think the most important thing is to keep Obama out of the White house...I hope Hillary keeps fighting so that more will be revealed about Obama. Your side can only make excuses for so long and you can only divert attention to Bush for so long I look forward to the day when your side has to actually address some of the Issues surrounding Mr Obama... | |
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| If Clinton Doesn't Get the Nomination...
Posted: 6/2/2008 5:12:47 AM |
don't believe for a second that all these Clinton supporters swearing up and down that they won't vote for Obama will stick to that at the cost of seeing McCain into the White House. Perhaps some will....for visceral reasons of their own...but people who are really committed DEMOCRATS won't
You are totally missing the point. The reason that Clinton supporters won't be voting for Obama is because they don't think that Obama has the goods to be President. That isn't going to change just because their candidate didn't win the nomination.
Voters who ALWAYS vote Democrat or ALWAYS vote Republican are sheep. Regardless of party affiliation you should always look critically at the candidates and vote for the one who has the combination of best experience and views on the issues TO YOU.
The women that you see on TV are ardent supporters who have donated large sums of money to the campaign and are well educated on the issues. Many will stay home and many more will vote for McCain because they think he's the BETTER candidate. That is not an emotional decision but a rational one.
The first election in which I voted was 1972. I have voted Democrat around 90 percent of the time, but there have been times when I thought that a Republican was a better candidate. In those elections I voted for the Republican.
"Committed Democrats" who blindly vote for their candidate regardless of whether they think he or she is the best one for the job should BE committed. This is not the kind of voter we need out there. | |
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| If Clinton Doesn't Get the Nomination...
Posted: 6/2/2008 6:33:21 AM |
"So your solution would be that the candidate who won the most votes"
by not counting quite a few of them from Michigan and Florida
Clearly you are having trouble reading posts and following links.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html
Obama has a vote lead of over 72,000. This figure gives Hillary all the concessions. She gets awarded all the votes and Obama gets credited with none in Michigan. She is still behind in the popular vote. Instead of just listening to the Hillary spin, why not look up the actual figures. However, it is typical of Hillary and her supporters to believe that if a lie is repeated often enough, it becomes the truth. Why not check out the link. It's in black and white. A state by state tally of exactly how many people voted for each candidate. Have a look at that and then come back and tell me she leads in the popular vote.
" ran a better campaign"
with a LOT of help from the national media
Once again, Hillary did not get better treatment from the media than Obama did. Here's the link to a Harvard study. I've pasted it before, but I think you'd rather just listen to the Hillary spin because it confirms what you want to think. In fact she got a lot more positive air time than Obama. However, I doubt you'll read an academic study, it's much more fun getting swept away in the Clinton angry woman drama.
http://www.hks.harvard.edu/presspol/research_publications/reports/Character%20and%20the%20Primaries%20of%202008.pdf
"and won a majority of the delegates"
let's wait until they're all counted shall we?
Ok. We can wait. You still think Hillary is going to win more delegates? Even she knows she won't. That's why she's perpetuating the "popular vote" myth, which can be so easily disputed by anyone who actually looks up the numbers.
I am saying the Obama organization will be doing plenty of whining when Clinton supporters do not vote for him.
No they won't. His organization hasn't whined this whole campaign, and they are not about to start now. It's really a Clinton campaign habit to whine. I'd rather that people vote for the candidate they feel is best, and if the Clintonbots don't want to vote for Obama, they shouldn't. It wouldn't be democratic - same as the principle of changing election rules half way through the election process because one candidate wants to manipulate the rules to change the outcome. Besides, even if a few bitter bags desert the party because they feel hard done by, I'm confident that enough repugs will cross the other way.
Lots of complaining and gnashing of teeth that democrats will lose the white house if clinton supporters don't get behind obama.
Lol, very descriptive imagery - I like the teeth gnashing part.
It's not a "solution" it's an observation.
Only one candidate can win. Good thing it's going to be Obama.
Obama 08
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| If Clinton Doesn't Get the Nomination...
Posted: 6/2/2008 6:42:19 AM |
... but you have saying something like that about the black people who are supporting Obama just because he is black, but they don't know anything about him. Yes ... that's what my friends are confirming ... they do not know anything about Obama but they are willing to support him because he is black. It's not something I'm making up ... my friends are proudly telling me that ... and yes they are BLACK. Is there something wrong with them being proud to support a fellow "black"?
I know how to read, and that means: they are black and ignorant. I have no control over how things I say get interpreted. If you know how to read, and you read what I wrote ... and I wrote it very clearly ... I'm being TOLD by my "black" friends that they are supporting Obama because he is black. I repeat ... is there something wrong with them being proud to support a fellow "black"?
Twist it any way you want ... it doesn't change what they told me. I could care less how anyone interprets it.
I have tried to get you to reflect on that stance of yours, and I have seen other people here going after you for the same thing. It's not MY "stance" ... it's the stance of the people I work with and socialize with. If you are "black" or "Caucasian" or "Whatever" and are insulted by what I report ... that's on you. I just report what I see and hear.
I too can read and I know exactly what you're trying to say and it won't float with me. What I hear from you is that you are insinuating that I do not support Obama because he is black and that is not what is going on here.
I have made it clear as to why I do not support Obama ... but nice try ... better luck next time.
The only problem I have is that I don't go along with the idea that if Clinton doesn't get the nomination, then we should vote for McCain ... I have never promoted that idea ... and I will not vote for McCain even if I do not vote for Obama.
It has been stated often that if we as Democrats do not vote for Obama, that it will be as good as a vote for McCain ... words that many of you are desperately trying to put in our mouths ... but that's nothing that I have personally said because it isn't something I would do.
Again that appears to be all in the interpretation. Stop ASSuming things.
If Clinton doesn't get the nomination ... or is not on the ticket or even gets a Cabinet seat ... I do not see a lot of her followers voting for Obama. We're just not going to do it. No matter how many of you try to twist our words and insinuate this or that about us ... it won't change how we feel.
Stop trying to make us just blindly vote for someone that does not represent what we want in a president. Some will no doubt just go out and no matter who is on the ticket (even if it was the man in the moon) ... will just vote the Democrat on the ticket.
There are still some of us who really believe in voting for what the candidate represents to us. Unless Obama changes HIS "stance" on some of the issues ... or puts Clinton on the ticket ... it would violate my principles to vote for him.
Insinuating that we are somehow "racist" ... or whatever it is that you're trying to shove down our throats ... just because we do not want to vote for Obama, is not going to convince us to support him.  | |
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| If Clinton Doesn't Get the Nomination...
Posted: 6/2/2008 7:00:10 AM | ^^^^^
Seriously doubt that your "friends" would be thrilled to hear that their views were being ridiculed by you on this forum.
I guess that's what "friends" are for,eh?
Anyway,Clinton has already lost.
It's sad that such a political player as her has to be repeatedly shown and told of that fact.
Moving aside and taking one for the team would be the best thing she could do at this time.
For herself...and others.
Obama will be the Democratic candidate...as much as that fact pains a sizable number of people, both in this forum, as well as in this country.
Frankly,it's curious that after eight years of possibly the worst POTUS in this country's history that anybody can muster more than faint criticism for Obama or any other candidate that looks to change the status quo.
But then again,when you allow personal prejudices to outweigh rational decision making ....anything is possible. | |
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| If Clinton Doesn't Get the Nomination...
Posted: 6/2/2008 7:19:01 AM |
Sorry..you can't have it both ways either you hate Clinton or you don't.
Wrong.
I don't hate Hillary. In fact, I was a huge Clinton fan before this primary season. Had you asked me at the start of it, I would have presumed she would have easily won it - with Obama as a good potential candidate for VP.
It's not because she's a woman, either. My country has actually had a woman Prime Minister, at least for a short while. I was against her as a leader, but I wasn't alone in that perception either - she was a weak candidate, and lost an election badly.
The province I live in has a nationalist movement that elected a female leader, who may (if tides turn) be the Premier of this province.
Have you ever seen me use the "Shillery" etc name calling on ANYONE running ? Even Bush ?
The reasons I don't support her are because of what I've seen her do, as I've mentioned here over and over again. It's her actions that sealed her fate in my eyes. That surprised even me, to be honest. I would have never thought it could have turned out this way. | |
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| If Clinton Doesn't Get the Nomination...
Posted: 6/2/2008 7:36:40 AM | "Committed Democrats" who blindly vote for their candidate regardless of whether they think he or she is the best one for the job should BE committed. This is not the kind of voter we need out there.
But it's the kind of voter Obama needs to get elected. The irony is, when they don't get that vote, they'll be blaming Hillary, instead of blaming their candidate for being ineffective. | |
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| If Clinton Doesn't Get the Nomination...
Posted: 6/2/2008 7:37:44 AM |
Seriously doubt that your "friends" would be thrilled to hear that their views were being ridiculed by you on this forum.
I guess that's what "friends" are for,eh? LMAO ... ridiculed.
Amazing how some people twist things around. Again ... nice try, but they already know about what I write on here. Some of them follow my posts and they have their opinions of how they feel about "people who get so worked up over politics". They're view is just choose a candidate and vote for them.
In case you missed it above ... They are are PROUD that they are supporting a fellow black. They have no interest in "polititcs" ... they are simply thrilled that there is a fellow black they can vote for this time. I'm just telling it the way they tell it and say it. If you don't like that ... that's your problem. If as a black man, you are insulted by what some of your fellow blacks are doing ... please don't take it out on me.
I personally would want more of a reason to support a candidate, but some folks apparently don't need that. What's wrong with that? | |
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| If Clinton Doesn't Get the Nomination...
Posted: 6/2/2008 8:12:45 AM | ^^^^^^
So your saying that they have no other views about the man other than the fact he's black?
Is that even a serious statement?
Do you even really know these people other than to talk w/ them at work?
I doubt that their only reason for supoorting Obama is his race.
To even suggest that does your "friends" a serious disservice,doesn't it?
Wouldn't that be similar to saying you primarily oppose Obama because of his race?
I'm not insulted by your saying other people are saying to you...
I'm insulted that you think so little of other people that you would use your perception of their views to bolster your own personal animus.
If you don't like Obama...that's you.
Don't try justify that dislike by making blanket statements about your perceptions of what other people think or believe.
Since the topic of this forum is "If Clinton Doesn't Get the Nomination..." I'm not sure why you (and several others) keep hijacking it to espouse your anti-Obama screed.
Why don't you all save your hysterical comments until AFTER he's elected and mail them to the White House?
I'm sure they'll be filed in the appropriate place...
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| If Clinton Doesn't Get the Nomination...
Posted: 6/2/2008 8:34:39 AM | Simple as this, if Clinton DOES get the nomination, I'll be at home eating a ham sandwich.
This message is approved by a proud Barack Obama supporter. | |
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| If Clinton Doesn't Get the Nomination...
Posted: 6/2/2008 8:56:09 AM | This just in;
Two more superdelegates have rushed to Barack Obama's side, bringing him within 45 of clinching the Democratic nomination.
This morning, the Obama camp announced the support of Nancy DiNardo, chairwoman of the Connecticut Democratic State Party, and of Jerome Wiley Segovia, a Democratic National Committee from Virginia.
“Senator Barack Obama has helped to energize thousands upon thousands of Democrats in Connecticut and across the country. He has inspired the electorate and won their confidence by demonstrating sound judgment, strength of spirit, dedication to those in need, and belief in the transforming power of community," DiNardo said in a statement. "Although we are blessed to have two outstanding candidates for the Democratic nomination this year, Senator Obama was the choice of Connecticut Democrats on February 5th, and he is my choice to head the ticket in November."
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/06/superdelegates_3.html
I'll give it to Hillary though, it must be frustrating to win a committee decision on a Saturday that gives her more delegates, win a primary on Sunday that gives her more delegates, and still have Obama inch ever closer to the nomination, The little lady has put up a spirited fight. Peppy little minx. | |
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| If Clinton Doesn't Get the Nomination...
Posted: 6/2/2008 9:06:55 AM |
They are are PROUD that they are supporting a fellow black. They have no interest in "polititcs" ... they are simply thrilled that there is a fellow black they can vote for this time. I'm just telling it the way they tell it and say it. If you don't like that ... that's your problem. If as a black man, you are insulted by what some of your fellow blacks are doing ... please don't take it out on me.
To be honest with you, I had planned on voting for Huckabee in the general, but he lost out. Obama was actually my second choice (and now my only choice). To say I support him only because he's black like I am is absurd. That's like me saying that you support Clinton because you're proud to support a fellow white woman like you when you may not even support her for that reason.
I supported Obama because he was trying to transcend the race issue that the media continuously tries to put into play time and time again in this election. I have yet to hear about him trying to do something for the black community only, which I find to be good because he's not trying to see color in the election. M.L.K.' s dream was not to be seen as a black man, but to be seen as a man that could bring people together, and I feel that Obama is an excellent representation of that dream. That's why I voted for him in the "Potomac Primaries".
I didn't make my decision just because he's a black man like me. I saw the content of his character (as M.L.K. would've wanted it to be), and I found it to be good. If someone like Al Sharpton were in his place, I wouldn't give a s--- about this election.
I'm by no means politically correct, and I'm not offended at all by your post. As far as my fellow blacks, why they choose to support Obama is their business. | |
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| If Clinton Doesn't Get the Nomination...
Posted: 6/2/2008 9:52:41 AM | Hot off the press;
Sen. Barack Obama picked up another superdelegate during his visit today to Troy High School.
Southfield Mayor Brenda Lawrence, who is a superdelegate because of her role with the National Conference of Mayors, said it's time for the Democratic Party to unite behind Obama.
"I was undecided, but he's worked hard to show that he's the best candidate," Lawrence said before Obama arrived at the high school, where 2,000 supporters waited in excited anticipation for the probable Democratic presidential nominee.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080602/NEWS15/80602060
The superdelegates are making their choice. I'm pretty certain Obama had a lot of them "banked" and wanted them to announce in a steady stream to keep his campaign positive and upbeat, but now that it's dragged on too long they will announce to end this spectacle.
Look for a flood in the next few days. | |
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| If Clinton Doesn't Get the Nomination...
Posted: 6/2/2008 10:25:49 AM |
I'm pretty certain Obama had a lot of them "banked" and wanted them to announce in a steady stream to keep his campaign positive and upbeat, but now that it's dragged on too long they will announce to end this spectacle.
Look for a flood in the next few days.
I thought it was Hillary that was dragging this out? So Obama drug it out to break up the party. | |
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