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| Native American Spirituality
Posted: 8/3/2008 3:26:50 PM | On romanticizing indigenous cultures: I've been a part of the intentional communities movement for a long time and read books that describe indigenous cultures. Often these indigenous cultures are great examples of things we are trying to re-create. Cooperative living, egalitarianism, tribal mind instead of individual focus, various decision making structures, different ownership structures, more humane child-raising practices, and physical systems that make for a comfortable way of living while giving back to the Earth at least as much as we take if not more.
A lot of these books warn against over-romanticizing indigenous cultures, imagining they don't have problems, imagining that our lives would be perfect if we were just born in a different time or place, and imagining that we can not achieve our goals or live our values within our own cultures, or change our culture.
The books I'm thinking about, btw, are The Magical Child, The Continuum Concept, Learning from Ladakh, the film From the Heart of the World, The Elder Brother's Warning, and many articles and discussions.
I do see the problem with romanticizing indigenous cultures. At the same time, you can't blame people for being interested in wisdom that is so urgently needed.
On Native American Spirituality and "Saving the Earth": PBS filmed a reality show with some pretend colonists and some Wampanoags. One of the Wampanoag leaders said something like that she felt that white people continue to ignore the message and wisdom of the Natives at their own peril.
Spirituality is a personal matter, and it is nobody's obligation to "share" their personal lives, their communities or their cultures with anybody else.
But as a family on this planet, I think we're in trouble. I don't think that learning the specific stories and traditions of any one culture is necessarily necessary. But as a human family, we are in need of all the input we can collectively gather about how to change the way we live so that we are giving back as much as we are taking. If we don't do this, I believe we are all going to die. Now, that's not the end of the World, literally. I think the world would go on. But I think it's a worthy endeavor to try to save ourselves and learn how to live in harmony.
It's just like how our old people that are dying off now have skills that we may need in the future if we return to a lower tech society. We may find ourselves needing the older technologies and begging nursing home residents to tell us how to make soap out of ashes, or how to make cloth out of flax.
The intentional communities people I know, who are trying to learn how to live sustainably, are keenly interested in the Amish for these reasons.
That same interest is there in how Native American societies lived and live, in terms of sustainability.
This interest in the more sustainable technologies, skills, and knowledge of different cultures becomes an issue of spirituality only for those who realize that intimate communication with the natural world around us is necessary for true harmony.
Anybody can learn to listen to the plants and the animals, but it's much easier with the guidance of tradition, elders, and already amassed knowledge.
There is a book called, "My Name is Chellis, and I'm in Recovery from Western Civilization." She talks about her own walk of first taking in and grieving how destructive our society is, and then spending lots of time with the plants and animals and earth around her and learning from them about how to live in harmony.
I have been finding myself wondering if there is a dividing line where Native Americans who are interesting in sharing wisdom and skills to sincere seekers, could share certain helpful things, but keep other things sacred....
Please don't hear this as a "should" but as a question. A brainstorm. A trying to think carefully about a multi-faceted issue that effects all of us.
It's like in the film, "From the Center of the Earth, The Elder Brother's Warning", this indigenous tribe (in South America?) decided to let European film makers in, so that they could send a warning out to "The Younger Brother" (white people, who are obviously younger because they lack foresight in their actions). The Elder Brother (their name for themselves) felt they needed to point out the changes in the Earth, the crying of the Earth seen all around them, and asked the Younger Brother to stop their mining operations.
Chief Seattle pleaded with us to change our ways.
As we speak, sacred sites and reservations are being mined and ruined.
Not communicating seems problematic. And, I honor that communicating is also problematic.
Unfortunately, or fortunately, the political, social, environmental, and the spiritual are impossible to separate completely.
I saw this film about the mining of reservations and sacred sites. It interviewed Natives and Europeans. At one point in the film, I had to stop and hit the pause button. I'm not usually that emotional when I watch things, but in this case I was up out of my chair, pacing, ranting, and then crying. They were talking about a sacred site that was being used for recreational rock climbing. The Natives were explaining why it was a sacred site and how important it was that it not be hammered, eroded, and trampled on with beer cans. This white lady said, "Well, I've been out there and sure, it's nice, but I don't feel anything sacred about it. It's a lot more of a sacred feeling to go to church."
 This upset me so much because... well it's just too infuriating to have to explain... people in my generation would usually say, "uh! AS IF!" The speaker was totally blind to the idea that someone else could have a different experience than she had. She was totally deaf to the idea that there were other experiences to be had, but that they required her open-ness. I can't even quite articulate why that was so offensive and hurtful, but it felt like a punch in the gut to me.
I've also seen films and read books about the atrocities against Native Americans that are the most traumatic things I've ever been exposed to, anywhere.
So, I really get how self-damaging it seems to cast pearls among swine. I get how futile it seems to speak to those without ears to hear.
But it also seems to me to be to everyone's benefit for the most possible people to have the opportunity to come to see themselves as one with the planet. There are so many people ripe for this awakening. There are so many who give it lip service and are so ready for the visceral experience. It will help us all if this happens. My heart cries for this.
Again, I hope I am not heard as making a "should" statement, but I am naming the cry of my heart. | |
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| Native American Spirituality
Posted: 8/3/2008 5:21:24 PM | there are some native americans in Southern California as well. A friend Jeff brought me to meet his parents at their home in Hawaian Gardens. it was a very humble abode about like a railroad car. and in palain sight was a full headress of Eagle Feathers He was a sporty type and he was a ladies man Yet found it diffucult to find or keep a job. He became a bouncer at a reggae club for a while.
and I know that he did die at the age of 36.
the average age of an alcoholic is 36 so he was an average person living in an average town and trying like hell to fit in. | |
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| Native American Spirituality
Posted: 8/3/2008 6:41:50 PM | Casheyeblond,
Very impressive reading! I don't know how to box in the quote and this entry belongs to "gottalight":
"Actually, if you go back to my posts of last year, you will see that I am a self-styled Libertine Spiritualist Minister, who was seeking the door to the Kingdom at the time of my previous writings. I was, and still am, someone who believes that God and Truth are one and the same. Before last year, I had never thought I had seen spirits." | |
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| Native American Spirituality
Posted: 8/3/2008 6:49:00 PM | | Silverlake, yes, the alcoholism is for real, it's in my family--up close and personal. I blame it on NA blood. I'm sure that most people on this post are aware of the "dark side". I've also heard stories of "bad medicine, too". This includes loosening lug nuts on someone's truck at a Hopi rez. | |
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| Native American Spirituality
Posted: 8/3/2008 7:49:34 PM | we are one pain klr but leaves from the tree top never see the rest until they are picked by the wind to fall. Truth you can not heal a wound by saying it is not there. The hurt will heal once enough light is on it then we will be stronger. Did some one tell you it was chief seattle that you quoted?
I know my ability to flow in the spirit is from my tribe Great Grand Father Grand Mother Mother and I all able to call health in to a body and command illness to go no topicals needed if health would be accepted. All of us were able to see life or death in a person. All of us are different in the way we flow I have the picture of the needy person pop up before me. I asked for this way of knowing instead of the way it first happened, I was seeing the need. If you ever seen CSI entry wound camera shot that is it kind of what it was like. Gov term "remote viewing" NA term "soul flying" Wendy term "EW" I did not want to see that.
Peace freedom and mercy be with you all | |
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| Native American Spirituality
Posted: 8/3/2008 7:52:04 PM |
"....I've also seen films and read books about the atrocities against Native Americans that are the most traumatic things I've ever been exposed to, anywhere....
But it also seems to me to be to everyone's benefit for the most possible people to have the opportunity to come to see themselves as one with the planet. There are so many people ripe for this awakening...... It will help us all if this happens. My heart cries for this.
Again, I hope I am not heard as making a "should" statement, but I am naming the cry of my heart. "
(imo) Your post, ParadoxicalPrincess, shares, the cry of the heart of humanity. How can we hurt and destroy what we know is sacred? For those who are truly ignorant of these cries, who can't hear them, we all suffer. And for those who can hear them, the tears are a bottomless well. The tears of shame also line this road. Sacred sites are being destroyed by the ignorance, sacred truths are being devalued by greed, and our sacred planet and all on it are being put under huge strain to keep producing, even though all know, even the ignorant know, I believe, how damaged she is by the greed and neglect to take all the beauty and nourishement from her and, as you so well put it, not give it back. We do this with each other also (i believe).
(imo) We abuse her and we abuse each other and our collective awareness knows this is not the right path we are on.
The body of humanity is hurting.
The heart of humanity is grieving.
The mind of humanity knows we are on a path of destruction and can see a path of peace.
The soul of humanity witnesses it all.
The Spirit of All offers the answers.
The paradox, I believe, is humanity has within us as much potential to correct the imbalances and injustices as we have to continue as many have been and by choosing ignorance, I fear we walk a very dangerous path and risk destroying everything and everyone here.
I believe Humanity is one Spirit, one body, one heart, one mind, one soul, one with the trees and one with the animals, one with the elements, and one with Spirit, and all energy, light, beings, realms both near and far. I believe deep within we all can touch the pain of all. We all can touch the love of all. We all can touch the sacredness of all. We can all hear the truth of all. And for those who do not believe this, we can learn. It is within us and all around us. We must learn to listen. The truth is out there, and it is in here within each of us.
I pray it is not too late. 
I pray we choose to honor our unity and love and all that is sacred and not use our energy to further feed the fire of fear and separation that closes our hearts to each other and closes our awareness of what must be done to honor and save all that is here.....for it may not be here next year. | |
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| Native American Spirituality
Posted: 8/3/2008 8:15:34 PM | Well the fellow sympathetic humans, It is easy to see we are working on this more than is required.
Also in the past one year the food banks run for the sake of needy family's has had a 800% increase in requests.
All "Faith Based " care givers whom work for free are taxed.Indicating that Domestic workers are laid off and spend their day in waiting lines to be a productive member in their homes. a bit of food to contribute.
then the Corn that exists in most every food product you eat is going for a higher price.
Tortillas are a staple of diet as is rice corn and beans. water too.
Why is a gallon of water still more than a gallon of gas?
did you know that all 50 states will get an arial spraying
lets see if the Chief in the white house will give up cocaine for a minute and help us. | |
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| Native American Spirituality
Posted: 8/3/2008 8:25:09 PM | Good Evening All,
Wonderful reading! We just had a giant thunderstorm and there is nothing else that compares to the majesty of Creator! I have nothing great and wise to share. I have had a wonderful weekend in Houston. Will go back to the country tomorrow or Tuesday. Have felt so quiet and peaceful about this thread the last couple of days. Very different than the anger and excitability I felt last week. But, I think it was a necessity for my mind to become quiet. I was cutting myself off from Spirit. SPirit never closes the door on us. We close the door on Spirit. Trying to think of some things I have learned to share. If you have never been to a Sweat Lodge, I would encourage you to find a good, traditional one and see if they would allow you to attend. To go into the Lodge and have the heat take away the toxins from your body, mind and spirit is a wonderous thing. But, one of my favorite things is when you come out of the lodge, (you crawl out, just as you crawl in) and you feel the fresh wind upon your face and it is as though you are reborn. To lie upon the good dirt and look into the sky and see the star beings in all their majesty and to feel the breeze upon your face, you Know there is a Creator and you are one with all. You feel this incredible connection. To then go back to the house and have a potluck feast and companionship.......I so encourage you all to try this. If you can find a good Lodge. If they are going to charge you something, it is not a traditional Lodge. But, it is fine to take a pouch of Buglar (sp) or some type of tobacco for the water pourer in the lodge. But, even that is not required. Just have a respectful attitude, not over rambunctious, LOL, kind of quiet and reverant and follow instructions. If it is too hot in the lodge for you, they will tell you how to let them know, so that you can go out early. If necessary. It is best to try to pray your way through it, for it will get better.
Okay, I don't want to start preaching, as I am certainly not a minister, but I did want to share with everyone. I hope you all have a very lovely night
Sherry | |
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| Native American Spirituality
Posted: 8/4/2008 1:03:03 AM | | I am very new to this thread and wanted to give an impression from someone who just peeked in a read for about 45 minutes. Obviously many here have been so for some time. I have ached for years over the history of human rights violations against the NA's. I was always the one kid who wanted to be the "indian" at 6 yrs old when we played cowboys and "indians". I had intense feelings of past lives involving my own sufferings at the hand of these "white men". I cried to my mom after my first day of kindergarten because I didn't want to go off to war because I knew I would be killed and not see her again for a very long time. (Long story) but here's my two cents worth. The "red man" has his unique ways and so does the yellow man and the black man and the white man. We all have issues and we all have attributes. But can anyone contest the fact that we can't change history? As far as current events, can anyone contest the fact that, "United we stand, divided we fall"? So if there are AIM reps who see abuses by otherwise adoring fans of NA spirituality, smote their ignorances with a sage stick of education. Harness their love. My biggest issue is what are these supposed "wise men" trying to protect? The culture they cling to may be the one they despise in their next incarnation as a racist of another color. Sound cold? I only say this from the POV that I am a white guy (this time around) but that's only a vessel for the eternal spirit within. Was I once a "red man"? If I as a white guy can see past this vulnerable and superficial "meatsuit" of a shell, why can't these otherwise spiritual masters? We are all able to access the same wisdom via each unique culture as long as we don't use the church to get it. You love Jesus Christ? Refer to Gnostic Christianity and get past the superstitions. Muslim? Check out the Sufi's. As American's we should be granted by the Native Americans, unconditional access to a true and pure method of understanding their path if we want to choose it as one for us to walk. Claiming we are trying to steal it like the church did with their lives and their land is apples and oranges. Is their creator or "Great spirit" different than ours because of our superficial skins? Their biggest "white enemy" imo, is the church and politicians. Neither of which I think is trying to steal their religion. Where's the middle road for the white man who respects these wise ways but is denied the information to give them their due? | |
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| Native American Spirituality
Posted: 8/4/2008 1:21:12 AM | To lighten things up a bit, this is great!
A UFO lands in the field of a ranch owned by a wise old Indian (if I may use this term). An alien gets out and sees the great chief sitting on his porch step not bothered by these strange events. So he walks up to the chief and says, " I see you have many cows on your ranch and I would like to buy them from you." The chief replies, "I have worked this ranch my whole life and know every cow by name. I could not possibly sell them all to the first buyer who comes along, even if you are an alien". So the Alien offers him a suitcase with $1,000,000.00 in it and the chief decides to accept the deal. With that the alien pulls a minature cow out of his pocket and sets it on the ground and it goes running all over the ranch gobbling up all the cows and comes back to his side and he picks it up and puts it back in his packet. Then he asks the chief if he will sell him all of the beautiful horses that are all around the ranch. Again the chief replies, "I have worked my whole life on this ranch and I couldn't possibly sell...." but as the alien shows him another suitcase with another $1,000,000.00 he accepts before he can finish his sentance. So the alien pulls out a little minature horse and sets it on the ground and just as before it runs all over the ranch until every last horse has been gobbled up andthen it returns to his side and he picks it up and puts it back in his pocket. He thanks the chief and turns to head back to his ship. He doesn't get three steps when he hears the chief calling him back. He stops and looks to see what the chief wants and the chief askes him, how would you like to get all of your money back before you leave? Sure! says the alien, but how? The chief replies, "Do you have a little "white man" in your pocket? | |
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| Native American Spirituality
Posted: 8/4/2008 7:40:48 AM | GOOD MORNING! How's everyone today? :) Did you see Grandfather Sun get up this morning? Grandmother Moon shining last night? Did you hear the birds start making their daily plans at dawn, ... stopping in prayer for a few minutes, as the animals awoke? Appreciate every day, as if it is the last, and you will be starting to walk... the "Good Red Road".
Pain-klr --- (Must say... quite the profile name for someone involved with the healing field ... :) --- Good J.P. song, too, eh! Ha!)
I enjoyed your two posts above, but I have a small disagreement with two sentences:
..."Their biggest "white enemy" imo, is the church and politicians. Neither of which I think is trying to steal their religion."...
Yes..., some things have changed a lot, since white-men first set foot on this continent many years ago. But..., other things have only "slightly" changed. There still needs to be MANY land-claim issues resolved, if respect is going to be accepted & given. I believe that this is ONE of the causes for a "lack of trust", ... and in sharing openly & completely. Why?
I don't have it in front of me right at this moment, but I do have a copy of the St. Lawrence seaway treaty, that was "signed, sealed & delivered", many years ago (forgive me my friends, for not remembering the exact Indigenous title & words to this treaty). Basically, the treaty "implied" that: We (Indigenous Peoples) will SHARE this river with you, SHARE the fishing grounds, .. and help you with anything you need, but we also want you to respect our own ways & customs, and respect Mother Earth's creations (something close to that fact, anyway). There was never any thought to Indigenous People that "anyone" OWNED the land. The true land-owner was "Wakan-Tanka"/ "Great Spirit"/ "Yosin"/ "The Creator" (etc.). In my understanding, the normal way of respecting Mother Earth was to farm & work the land, until it was time to move the village to a slightly different location, so that everything could replenish itself & that the land & animals would not be "over-worked/ over-hunted". Not only were there THOUSANDS & THOUSANDS of treaties like this one that were NOT honoured, but white villages did NOT move around, and land & game were depleted in many areas.
(Still going on with this same thought, but this next point also ties into something a previous poster implied, pages ago. ) Someone implied that Indigenous people "scalped" each other in war, and did so to the white race. Obviously, this poster has not read enough history (TRUE history) about what really happened. When the "black robes" (missionaries; priests; etc.) first came to this land, a fee was paid by the Church for the scalps of "infidels & "heathens" (THEIR own terms for those Indigenous People who would not convert to organized religions). My numbers may be a little off, but I believe it was something like: $100/ for the scalp of a brave; $50 for a woman's scalp & $20 for a scalp of a Native child (any Elders reading this, please correct me if I'm wrong with my numbers.. Meegwetch!). If you put those numbers in ratio of what the dollar is worth today, that was a LOT of money, back then! This is not hear-say..., it has all been written down and acknowledged as "fact". Indigenous people did not "start" the terrible act of scalping. It was the Church, who wanted to eliminate (and pay for) scalps of Indigenous Peoples. I thought that this was a very important point that needed clearing up. Never mind talking about what atrocities happened at boarding schools!
So... Pain-klr.... That is why I think that I disagree with your statement about the government & Church not wanting to steal Indigenous Spirituality. They already did so, in a variety of ways. The hunting grounds, the animals, the waterways, the land & every other part of creation are ALL : "part of Indigenous Spirituality". The treaties were NOT honoured, the land was corrupted, the animals have dwindled, the air & water is polluted.... and almost every treaty (promise) was not honoured, as it was written.
*The second post with the joke, was VERY funny, though! :)
How can Indigenous Peoples have "trust" that the world will respect & be honest with them, until everything that was "promised" is owned up to? If a used car salesman sold you a lemon, would you go back and buy another car from him? Would you "trust" his word? I think that a LOT of us here don't think like past Government & Church, and hopefully..., neither does the Government & Church of today. But..., a word of HONOUR to a Native American is something that is said & taken , with pride & respect. Whether they are words from the past makes no difference. They must be honoured, and the faults of past Governments and Churchs must be rectified, ... for there to be any complete, and unqualified respect & trust expected in return. I don't mean to be so political here, but I believe this is a necessary point, in understanding why "some" Indigenous Peoples have a hard time sharing anything else. If your child makes a mistake & steals something from the store, do you not sit him/her down and explain why it was wrong, and make them take the stolen property back to the store & apologize? Isn't this very much the same, but on a MUCH larger scale? What lessons are we teaching our children, if they see wrongful acts in history, with no consequences to the actions?
I think that the wise Elders can easily see who walks with a "true heart". And that those who do, will be welcomed with open arms, in sharing a beautiful spirituality. "Intention" is the most important thing, I believe. But honoring the past, is also very important. I just truly believe, that rectifying the past does not have to include any more violence & sadness, ... from any organization. "Two wrongs, don't make a right." Agreed?
Peace, Understanding, & Change.... All are needed, for a better tomorrow...... | |
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| Native American Spirituality
Posted: 8/4/2008 7:42:34 AM | Pain-kir,
Yeh, you might have been Red in a past life time--IMO. We seem to carry with us our pleasure and our pain. The Buddist do a good job of balancing these issues. This re-tracing of the past incarnation is usually really prominent with young children's behavior and interests.
In my case I use to lay awake at night playing with balls of light in my bedroom swirling over my bed and I played with toy airplanes and not dolls. I loved dog fight films. Under hypnosis years ago I saw myself as a WWII fighter pilot.
Pain-kir, your statement, "American's we should be granted by the Native Americans, unconditional access to a true and pure method of understanding their path if we want to choose it as one for us to walk," says what most of us feel here. Personally, the rich NA with the casinos should be offering legitimate colleges for us to go to. (besides sharing with others of their blood who are poor). They could convey the message but not the Spirit. Spirit arrives on a one to one basis--usually. Plato has been through this process on many occasions, and a few others on this thread.
Our shared stories are healing for us and community. Obviously, despite opposition, we still persist.
Blessings. | |
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| Native American Spirituality
Posted: 8/4/2008 7:44:54 AM | Good morning!...
I have read the posts and I keep having one word that comes to my mind...Sorrow
and... it just happened that I am at the section of Sorrow in the book written by Oriah.
It doesn't interest me what planets are squaring your moon. I want to know if you have touched the center of your own sorrows. If you have been opened by life's betrayals or have become shriveled and closeed from fear of further pain. I want to know if you can sit with pain, mine or your own, without moving to hide it or fade it or fix it.
There is an other exert that just brought tears of healing to my soul...
page 44 (Again, the number four shows up... four crows... page 44... )
...I find the intimacy with myself and the world for which my soul hungers, and in holding another or being held myself, I am able to retrieve the pieces of self I had left behind in my attempts to flee from pain.
I find again the hopeful part of myself I divorced when my hopes were dashed.
I find the woman who longs for a man, the woman I left behind when the loneliness seemed unbearable.
I find again the part of myself that loves the earth as a sacred sister, the part I sometimes try to leave behind when I fear that the pain if watching her devastation at the hands of my people will be too much.
When we learn to be with our pain, we retrieve the parts of ourselves we have attempted to leave behind, and we are able once again to love those parts of ourselves.
We find our wholeness ad leave behind the impossible ideal of perfection that keeps us from the wisdom we need to live fully and compassionately with our humanness and the world.
I isolated the sentences because they all have such an impact...
We need to heal... We need to become whole again, accept our pain and heal and learn and I believe we can become one... We must be true to ourselves...
That for me will be a great challenge... I remember when my mother read to me the story of the ugly duckling... I cried for days and days... In a way, I have always been the ugly duckling... Not really fitting in... Not quite "all there"... Sort of speak. I never "felt" I belonged in the white man's world... (sort of speak)...
I KNOW I have to address issues with my father... because I KNOW that there are things he is keeping from me concerning my great grandmother... I KNOW... Her burial does not make sense... It is impossible that she had both a catholic and a native burial... The only way is that she did not receive her last rights from the priest and that would have been unthinkable in those days... It knaws at me... I have to know... I have to deal with my own sorrow... As much as it is painful, as much as it helps me... I cannot explain...
I am sharing in a candid way but I just KNOW we must all deal with this issue before we can even think of becoming one or I should say, the people that will be part of the rainbow warriors, must be true to themselves before anything can progress.
I want all of you to know, it took a great effort for me to write this post... It has been knawing at me all morning... Hope it helps someone...
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Posted: 8/4/2008 8:12:46 AM | Healing and becoming Whole again. I had heard last night on a radio program "I listen to KPFK.ORG" that Holy came from the word Whole.
I would be considered to have healing hands and I attribute that to the spirit being channeled thru them. healing eyes because I can look into a babys.
Ability to comfort by being empathetic.
I cried my tears alone and licked my wounds alone as well on the road less travelled it is nice to meet others.
when I buy a book I don't read it I just buy it.
when I hear a first hand storie I remember it.
I once rode across northern Washington with a native american Okanagen Indian in his Picup. we had shared the love of the Okanagan Lands he spoke of his life as we drove
It seems he ad been a Cowboy or rodeo Cowboy he had shown me his riding gear for Bronco Busting.
I too ride and know a serene approach yeilds the horse a secure feeling.
Well I heard his life and remember I am sort of a listener and I am a 24-7 observer.
in the world we live in Lies Voo doo and mis information abound I seem to think it comes from a need to survive that is complicated by a need to be approved of causing the lie to look ok on the surface but killing the spirit.
Look at a pool of water and see how it glistens strive to glisten | |
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Posted: 8/4/2008 11:52:47 AM | Platojag,
You said you dissagreed with two sentances but I only saw one of mine in your reply. I certainly offer my thoughts and feelings to this forum with open heart for rebuttle. The problem is that what I read in your reply only seemed in agreement with what I said. The enemy is "the church" and "polititians". Both are liars and worship only one god, "money". I don't assume that the individuals within these organizations are aware of their full responsibility in the cause and effect of their individual roles. But as organizations go (corporations) they operate without a soul. ie: the priest may be a loving man but the organization of his faith is a business with no soul. Only lawyers and advisers and bankers operating a hugely profitable and tax free business. What happened throughout history by this great evil-doer, happened to whites as well if their land was wanted by the church. The church called them witches and whamo! Innocent people killed, property became posession of the church etc... (another thread somewhere else I'm sure). What is the Pope and all the Cardinals? Polititians in robes....
Every religion that opposed Christianity was attacked (historically) and temples destroyed so the new faith could erase the roots of it's own birth. Who would convert to "literalist Christianity" if they saw that jesus was a copy-cat of a Pagan god who understood the importance of the sun and moon and Earth? The abuse of land goes with our culture as technology makes us all lazy and dependant upon it. Even the Native Americans that I saw in Az, Wyoming, Montana, Colorado and New Mexico had used pickup trucks with bad exhaust etc. polluting the air. We are all having some roll (almost out of nessesity). I am planning my new home in Sedona with all Green technologies and hoping for a hybrid car by next year. But those who can't afford? The part where I said the church isn't trying to steal their religion (modern day reference) is in light of the fact that it was my understanding that the NA's were upset with whites partaking of their ceremonies. It isn't modern day "literalist" Christians doing so. Nor the Jews or Muslims.... That's all I meant in that statement... I hope it is our agreement to agree to offer views that may differ slightly to come to a clear view of the whole and see where we can learn and grow to heal this rift in a united and loving way. You are my brother in spirit and I am humbled by the love of this place.... The NA way isn't the only path and I hope they don't try to keep it a racial issue but if they do it would seem to me that they are doing to spirituality what the white man did to the Earth. Putting up fences.... | |
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Posted: 8/4/2008 12:26:40 PM | If a person comes to you in pain. Well now did they tell you or did you see and say you could relive it. or the best scenaro someone had mention you .
I had at many times been discussed then ask to take that Pain.
Sure thats what I do.
and it is universal. not just a paly for pay.
In fact I lived in an old bread truck a empty shell of a house ora geodesic dome a root cellarer etc.
Now I do have a home it was my grandmothers.
to look out on the world and see the busy bees is another joy in itself.
Nutrition is kind of key as well I visit a Senior center in the park here nice food and only a buck.
had you seen eleders today?
some are in your neighborhood and they are lonely. to live a long life is to be a loner because the older you are the more help you need and the less you can ask.
to have a conversation is crucial. I did spend my twentys with those over 80 and my thirtys with those over 50 and my fortys with tose ove 89 and I can dip into the past as well. since to be awake is to let in what is next I am looking for that . I tone tune a guitar and listen there . | |
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| Native American Spirituality
Posted: 8/4/2008 1:21:52 PM | @ Hill of Silver Lake...
Look at a pool of water and see how it glistens strive to glisten.
It is one of the most beautiful sentences that I have read in a long long time... Thank you...
I also noticed, your name , Hill of Silver Lake well, goes well with the sentence...
Sometimes the reflection of a lake is like a beautiful strand of silver... Awsome... | |
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| Native American Spirituality
Posted: 8/4/2008 1:43:22 PM | Silver Lake it is resting in a wonderful hilly place. There the water is protected It is ok to look and ok to exercise around its shores. In 1938 my dad and his friend climbed over the fence to swim one boy was towed under, my dad got him back, that did not stand well when there was a dispute over my mom
' to look upon the waters is a mystical experience I adore. just me and the water because no one has time for that. | |
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| Native American Spirituality
Posted: 8/4/2008 4:43:39 PM | Well, I just spent a few minutes reading through some of the "Plastic Shaman" web sites. If you haven't done so, please do. I must admit I've never taken a course on NA topics. I've been fortunate to learn from folks who are part NA or who lived for a while with a tribe and were taught by elders.
But what struck me about some of the info--an issue that him home for me intensely is this:
When I was younger I had a bunch of situations of potential sexual abuse, if you will, by such individuals who were in positions of power.
Once I was at a New Age School in Cambridge MA (can't remember the name) around 18 years ago and took a fabulous workshop with an African man named Patrice Some'. He has printed several books. Mr. Some was taken away from him tribe by Jesuits and as a youth walked hundreds of miles through the jungle and found his elders waiting for him. Anyway, besides being a "medicine person" if you will, WITHOUT OFFENDING ANYONE, please, he had a couple of PhDs. He was for real and absolutely fascinating and was literally sent out by his elders to teach their ways because they felt it was pertinent for their survival.
One night I wanted to meet the director of this school. I introduced myself. This guy was Spanish. I could read his spirits and feel his personal power and I was honing in on a "vive" with my radar. I stated that I would like to talk to him outside of the office.
Flat out this dude asked me to have sex with him!!!! Having experienced this CRAP from men who possess "power" before I was ready and armed . . . . . .
I asked him if he was a Santera Priest, etc. I knew what he wanted. He wanted to drain "power" from me with a sex act. At this moment a couple of women, groupies of this man, stuck their heads in the door and sort of flirted with him a bit.
Take any "new age" man on any pathway who is attractive and it's like he's a rock star with his own flock of groupies.
Please note that this nonsense is over the top and it's everywhere no matter what group--whomever--you might want to hang with.
Of course, I have noted that most people on this thread are older and not 25 years old. I would have been a nice trophy on the wall in my younger years. Fortunately, I had this experience once in my early 20's, figured it out--painfully--cleaned my aura up--it took years, years.
I realized that the sleezarama is out there. This is equivalent with the Catholic Priest sex abuse cases. | |
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| Native American Spirituality
Posted: 8/4/2008 4:44:44 PM | I must apologize to Pain-klr, if I have somehow offended you? I see you as my brother, too. Have sent you a private message to better explain my words, as I sometimes am caught up in a thought, and forget to explain myself better / use a better choice of words (I was also expecting family company this morning & rushed my posting.. ha!).
Yes..., there are MANY different races, creeds & religions (and others!) who have been taken advantage of by "corruption/abuse of power", by both government & Church. This has happened in the past, .... and unfortunately, it continues today. Since this is not a forum discussing how the Church had ALL domestic cats "eliminated" throughout Europe, during the days of the Black Plague, .. I wont go into detailed dialogue of how the cat population controlled the rat population, and where that all leads to. Since we are not talking about African Americans, ... I won't go into all the details of slavery, the Klan, and signs in public washrooms. Since we are not discussing the Holocaust, ... I won't go into the whole "white supremacy concept" and how millions of innocent people were killed, because of their religion & heritage. Since we are not talking about J.F.K. , ... I will not go into details about how the U.S. government has possibly hid secrets of assassination plans that were made. Since we're not talking about Roswell, Area51, or S4, .... I won't go into details about experimental aircraft & how the stealth bomber was invented & test flown in the late 1940's... Need I continue?
I think you all know that we could apply many different scenarios throughout our world history, where there has been an excess of prejudice, irrational behaviour & a lack of positive thinking. Many things have happened that involve Government and/or Church power, that was used & abused, over the history of the world. I happen to have long hair at the moment... Why is it 2008, and people are still obsessed with "judging a book, by it's cover"? Longhairs are still looked at strangely, by the average person? One of my favourite sayings is: "ignorance breeds contempt". Too bad, ... because if you judge someone by where they come from, what they look like, what spirituality they follow and/or anything else BEFORE you take the time to get to know them, .. you are just doing the same kind of thing that people did to the American Indigenous population. Good and bad comes in all shapes, colours & sizes... ALL people are "unique", and should be treated this way. Are we in agreement?
Now.. ha-ha! Pain-klr... I do take one other thing you said to be a little "judgemental", as none of us were around to meet Jesus in person. Maybe I am wrong, but you seemed to imply that Jesus was not somehow a very special person, in the whole realm of Spirituality? I think he was. I just think that his original belief, preachings and words have sometimes been "misinterpreted" & sometimes, "twisted" to fit with certain people's beliefs & "control issues"... And that is all I will say on that subject on this forum, because we are going to get off topic going in that direction. I think that some of the words of Geronimo (Golathlay) have also been twisted at times to support acts of aggression, as I have read his own biography & other writings, that speak of his desire for unity & peace (see the quote I posted earlier, by him). People often take "what works for them" out of someone else's words. I agree with you, Pain-klr. There has been many "sweaters pulled over the eyes", by both government & Church. Maybe it's time that we change into "a new set of clothes"? GOOD DREAMS, EVERYONE!! | |
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| Native American Spirituality
Posted: 8/4/2008 5:09:46 PM | Observing the Male Teacher in action Ha Ha the beatles copped an attitude.
the one we had here in los angeles was Amir a Sufi Dance Person. We did appear before the Wonderful ones at the sports arena, but he would get lost in a female and get a whopping parking Violation | |
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| Native American Spirituality
Posted: 8/4/2008 7:03:12 PM | This world of ours is many thousands, probably millions of years old. No one has any idea when the first human appeared. But, I am sure that as soon as there were one group of humans with a certain color hair, they were Wary of meeting humans of another color hair. Or eyes. I think of the book Clan of the Cave Bear and how suspicious they were of anyone who looked different. I think this is human nature. We are, by nature, leery and watchful of those who are very different in appearance than ourselves. Even to this day, this is happening. Not so much as in years past, but it still exists. So, when we take into consideration that during the 1500, 1600, 1700's there was still much unoccupied land to be settled, it was inevitable that the Native American and the Europeans would compete for land. And it was a powder keg. Already distrusting those that appear different, it would only take a few fights or skirmishes for total distrust to evolve. And the white man was without sympathy, for the most part,. As I said before, we are a very brutal race. But, what I am getting at is it is no longer necessary for us to be at war with each other. We know each other. We are used to seeing each other. We know that the Native American Church is different than a Protestant or Catholic Church, but so is the Mormon Church, Islam, and Buddism. I think there is a social class distinction that is abhorable (sp). And this distinction is worldwide, not just American. The poor do not get the socialize with the rich. You oppress a people and make them poor and then say they are not good enough to sit at the table with you. We did that to the Redman. But, hopefully, this is changing. I believe it is. And when this happens, we get to know one another. And trust one an0ther. So, how do we make amends and reparation to a whole race of conquered peoples? I do not think we can. We can only Stop Doing What We Were Doing. And I think many are doing that. And with this comes knowledge of each others ways to worship. Many white people find the Native American way to be more comforting to them. Should they be denied because of their ancestors actions? I hope not forever. If allowed to learn the Red Path, should they be able to take away and add to as they see fit. Absolutely not. That is how many religions are corrupted. But, usually, the original way prevails. For that is the true path and the others are simply branches that wither and die. I do not think we should steal any more from the Redman. But, I hope that one day we can join them, and I think there are many that are now allowing this. I am so grateful.
I am not preaching. LOL! And I am so grateful to IndianJim and PainKiller and Wendy and Hills of silverlake and all the others for joining this thread and sharing their stories and wisdom. It makes me wish I could go to those that hate us and plead our cause. I have found such happiness on this Red Path. With every year that goes by, I learn more and become a better student. I am so grateful.
Sherry Whitefeather | |
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| Native American Spirituality
Posted: 8/4/2008 7:15:23 PM | for our original thread starter seeking others who had in some way found a native perspective as she had long ago.
And for us who shared a little this is what has just arrived via the channel.
It is my thought now that the poster is in a new crisis, one she un un equipped to handle. a crisis because neither a drink nor a pill is going to fix it. shooting out flying combatants and
seeking on line info is not going to fix it either we must pool to gether now and give enigma a hug. it is that which she needs now.
Her great grandmother has held her tight but the demon she is facing is lonelyness coupled with that Trophy syndrome. I had seen it transpire and it is horrid.
no one is going to be able to tell her about the nutrition needed or that a long list of degrees is useless it is a empath she needs someone please get busy. | |
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| Native American Spirituality
Posted: 8/4/2008 7:35:56 PM | Silverlake, don't worry. I'm a real tough "broad". I've survived Satanist, even. When your aura gets as big as a house with an army working threw you it's no big deal. Trust me.
I'm not in pain. I have a big bullshit meter that functions very well. But thanks for the warm thoughts. | |
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| Native American Spirituality
Posted: 8/4/2008 7:45:52 PM | ^^relief flows. thank you for telling us quickly.
something I just learned -
"Natural Wonders"
'All of the leaves on a single tree will open on the same day.
Similarly, all of the flowers on the Japanese Cherry tree will open at the same time.'
Perhaps it is like that with hearts and minds of people.
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