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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 5/31/2008 7:43:11 PM | Confident people dont need to say a thing about how good they are to anyone; Arrogant people need to tell everyone how good they are.
I'm not into all the pheremone crap; has nothing to do with it. If that were true I'd sell certain pheremones and be a billionaire.
Everyone is different. But lets be honest. I have a client that is super good looking, arrogant and women are all over him like bees to honey. he can get anyone he wants and often does.
Women are as shallow as men in todays world. They are about getting someone hot to show off to friends and family. And money isn't a deterrent either.
Confidence can be learned to a point. I think you are wrong. And also if your going to try to be taught confidence just to land a relationship, its not really confidence.
I was taught by great parents at a young age to be confident. Always look at others before yourself and dont brag. We have the see me generation that is obsessed with attention and being seen. Well I was taught the opposite. Be humble.
You can also be confident but not treat a woman right. Confident people cheat too.
I think you are simplifying relationships down to one thing and its much more than confidence. Just because a person is confident, doesnt' make them a good person. | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 5/31/2008 7:55:54 PM | Another point is that, someone who is confident does not necessarily need a partner. Confidence allows one to be comfortable on their own as well as with a partner, and to stay on one's own until they meet someone who is truly compatibile with them.
Yep.
They never are satisfied with just anyone. I know I can't.
And I would rather be alone than miserable. | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 5/31/2008 10:16:34 PM |
But I don't think you're understanding the "nice guys" people are talking about. They aren't really nice, they just claim they are. If they looked within themselves, they would understand that they are abusers... subtle and non-violent, but still abusers. They use their "kindness" as a manipulation tactic. They're not doing nice things because it's the right thing to do, they're doing it to make women feel indebted to them. "I did this for you, you'd better stay with me." When they don't get what they want, they become hostile and aggressive. How nice is that?
Yeah...that's not nice at all...Maybe I should take "I'm nice" off my profile if that's what it means in this arena...In my world what you just described is a Schum*k. Oh yeah and a mysogenist. I was married to one of those...no seconds thank you.
I appreciate you clarifying the word "nice". Too bad...it was a nice word. | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 5/31/2008 10:41:35 PM | No, I'm not simplifying relationships down to one thing, not in the least. Saying that confidence is a key factor for many people is a far cry from simplifying relationships to one thing, mthomjmark.
People who are confident do not usually feel the need to call the views of others wrong. You have your opinion, and I have mine. I do not feel it necessary for you to agree with me, but it is also unnecessary for you to call the views of another wrong.
I'm not into all the pheremone crap; has nothing to do with it. If that were true I'd sell certain pheremones and be a billionaire.
Note that the question outlined in the thread header is worded "Is confidence THE pheromone?" Then note "for lack of a better word" in reference to pheromones when applied to the attraction of confidence. Pheromones were suggested as a factor in confidence being attractive to many people, but not asserted to be absolutely the case. Merely suggested. However, confidence is being asserted in this OP as a main factor in attraction for many people.
Confidence can be learned to a point. I think you are wrong. And also if your going to try to be taught confidence just to land a relationship, its not really confidence.
I was taught by great parents at a young age to be confident.
So what you are saying is that I am "wrong" that confidence can be learned, but it can still be learned "to a point". But you can be taught confidence with no limit on the "point" to which you can learn, but others can not? Care to explain, mthomjmark? | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 5/31/2008 11:13:04 PM | here is my 2 cents
Attraction("spark") requires the following elements: confidence, appearance (look, height, muscle, etc)
Nice things to have but not nessary: financial security, social status.
Not required: honesty, integrity, humour, STD-Free, no gf/wife, cuddling, love kids, love animal, nice, etc
Most women never tell the truth of what women want in their profiles. they bs what they really want. If there is a woman disagree with me, i think she is just lying and trying to cover the truth. | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 6/1/2008 12:17:07 AM | | Ever considered that some of those good looking, well to do, sociable people just prefer to be single if given the choice. Not everyone wants to be in a relationship and is desperate for a date or hook up. | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 6/1/2008 7:24:16 PM | Yes confidence is in part a pheromone.
Confidence can not be taught in so far as it is more an acquired trait.
Confidence grows from successes.
The more successful you are at a skill the more confident you become.
The human nose is generally not so sensitive to the source of the confidence however.
If one is confidant in his/her ability to deceive, this person often appears as confident.
Confidence is the result of successful endeavors.
Success is the true pheromone. | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 6/1/2008 8:17:51 PM |
Confident people dont need to say a thing about how good they are to anyone; Arrogant people need to tell everyone how good they are.
Fiddle sticks. Arrogance is just a more aggresive/outspoken version of confidence. | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 6/1/2008 8:36:32 PM | Couple things to keep in mind;
There've been a spate of threads, recently, from women who openly wonder what "possesses" men who are so "obviously" "beneath" them to deign to send them a message, or hit on them, or whatever.
These men are being confident, in approaching someone they like, even though they may not be Mr. Rich Handsome. Is this winning these women over? No, they find these men creepy and pushy.
If you like him, what he is doing is "assertive" and "confident". If you don't like him, what he's doing is "pushy" and maybe even "sick". Often, men who aren't "perfect" in these very forums are asked, when they express the kind of woman they want, "what makes you think she'd want to have anything to do with you?"
Isn't that confidence? No. To these women, it's "delusion".
Also, to those of us who use logic, confidence cannot naturally develop unless actually reinforced by success. After all, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result each time. I, personally, have been turned down so many times I pretty much don't ask women out anymore. My friends don't understand it, they can't understand why I'm so "down" on myself and why I have a "negative" attitude, when all I'm doing is observing that I've never actually met a woman who was single and who was attracted to me. When they ask me why I don't ask out a girl I like, my answer is usually "she's not attracted to me". And, quite often, I'm right.
That's not a lack of confidence - that's simply observing the truth. I'm not attractive to women. Four years on this site and three dates attests to that.
The long and short of it is... A) if you never succeed, you're essentially being told to throw your entire life's experience out the window and assume things are going to be different on try 1,000 when the last 999 did not work. It'd be a foolish man to take that bet - it is imperative that you actually have success enough times to reinforce the notion of confidence, otherwise you're just believing in fairytales. And B), what one woman sees as confidence, another woman does not. I've been viciously chewed out on these forums for standing my ground or stating a potentially unpopular opinion - according to some, I'm psychotic. I'm not, though - just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe. We cannot control how others see us, and in dating... how others see us is more important than how we see ourselves. | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 6/1/2008 8:47:18 PM |
There've been a spate of threads, recently, from women who openly wonder what "possesses" men who are so "obviously" "beneath" them to deign to send them a message, or hit on them, or whatever.
And such women are doing me a fantastic favor by not replying to my e-mails. My confidence is not affected by being shunned by women who put themselves on pedestals. | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 6/1/2008 8:49:11 PM |
The long and short of it is... A) if you never succeed, you're essentially being told to throw your entire life's experience out the window and assume things are going to be different on try 1,000 when the last 999 did not work.
The beauty of it all is that, in the end, you only really need to succeed once for the game to be over. | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 6/1/2008 8:56:51 PM |
The beauty of it all is that, in the end, you only really need to succeed once for the game to be over.
I thought the same way until my divorce. | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 6/1/2008 9:54:20 PM | | Silver Cella, dating and courtship is somewhat of a sales routine. Presintation and display of a product makes alot of difference. Alot of times having a great product is not enough. | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 6/1/2008 11:15:49 PM | wonkabar:
First of all, approaching someone that one likes does not necessarily constitute confidence. If one's advances are consistently found to be "creepy and pushy", then the only common denominator is the one making the advances.
Often the men you are describing are approaching the wrong people. Just because you are attracted to someone does not mean you are compatible with them, or that they will be attracted to you.
In those instances, true confidence is recognising that it is not a compatible match and moving on.
I've been viciously chewed out on these forums for standing my ground or stating a potentially unpopular opinion - according to some, I'm psychotic.
This statement itself illustrates what confidence is not. One who was confident would, for one, not refer to it as being "viciously chewed out", you get what you give in everything in life, and that also applies to the forums. As you even said yourself, we can not control how others see us, and confidence means you do not even need to mention the negative opinions of others to try and show your confidence.
And such women are doing me a fantastic favor by not replying to my e-mails. My confidence is not affected by being shunned by women who put themselves on pedestals.
CSIAnaheim, every woman who does not reply to your message is not putting herself on a pedestal. That is a common rationalisation of a lack of responses, nothing more.
Silver Cella, dating and courtship is somewhat of a sales routine. Presintation and display of a product makes alot of difference. Alot of times having a great product is not enough.
And that attitude displays exactly why you may have trouble dating. If you treat relationships as a "sales routine", don't be surprised when you don't find a market for your product. | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 6/1/2008 11:57:33 PM | First of all, approaching someone that one likes does not necessarily constitute confidence. If one's advances are consistently found to be "creepy and pushy", then the only common denominator is the one making the advances.
At the risk of repeating myself, we are now in the realm of perception. I won't quote the dictionary, but the very definition of confidence is "faith in one's abilities". If the person doing the approaching was not confident in their abilities to make the person like them, and did not have faith in the fact that they were a good catch, they would not be approaching - they would be doing what I do, and, well, not.
And, who said anything about consistency? I didn't say any one individual was repeatedly being called creepy or pushy - I merely said that any *one* approach could be considered as such *depending on the perception of the person being approached*. Some women on this site are offended by the very notion that men who aren't their exact match might deign to send them a message.
This statement itself illustrates what confidence is not.
Okay then, at this point I'm confident that we're working off of different definitions of the word - and I really have no idea what you think it is. If I relate the fact that someone responds to a post I make with hateful language that leaves little room for interpretation, I don't see how that's affected by my self-perception. I mean, if they flat-out say "you've got anger issues" because I won't relinquish my position on a topic and they think I'm being argumentative, that neither means I have anger issues, nor that I don't have any confidence in myself or my opinion. I'm relating that to illustrate the fact that some people can, and will, have irrational responses to perfectly reasonable behavior, and it is not any fault of the person engaging in that behavior.
CSIAnaheim, every woman who does not reply to your message is not putting herself on a pedestal. That is a common rationalisation of a lack of responses, nothing more.
A) he didn't say every, and B) the women who use the sort of language I am referring to, are in fact being overly egotistical about it. Or maybe those sorts of men should just "learn their place" and approach "their" kind of women only, instead of thinking, nay, being confident that any women with any self-worth would want them?
Often the men you are describing are approaching the wrong people. Just because you are attracted to someone does not mean you are compatible with them, or that they will be attracted to you.
Generally, the women in question are referring to physical body type, age, or any of a bunch of other not-really-set-in-stone qualifications. Or are you implying, again, that only beautiful people should date beautiful people? Can you, for example, give me an ugliness rating so I know who I won't be compatible with?
One who was confident would, for one, not refer to it as being "viciously chewed out", you get what you give in everything in life, and that also applies to the forums.
So what would you call it, an invitation to tea? If I wrote some profanity-laden spew in response to your last message instead of the reasoned response I'm typing now, and you said to yourself "wow, this guy's totally gone off the deep end", would that mean you don't have any confidence either?
As you even said yourself, we can not control how others see us, and confidence means you do not even need to mention the negative opinions of others to try and show your confidence.
So confidence is in fact a blind disregard for anything negative, and that potentially creepy guy is, in fact, just confident? After all, if he felt he was creepy, that would just be a lack of confidence on his part, right?
Help me out here, 'cause I'm just not getting it. | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 6/2/2008 12:39:12 AM | I often wish I had a lobotomy so I could blindly go through life not trying to analyze this kind of thing. I could be dumb and happy.
Ever see the movie Pi? The ending? It's a happy ending.
And are we talking about self-confidence here, or confidence in the rest of the world? | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 6/2/2008 1:10:38 AM | Confidence, not to be confused with arrogance, is THE pheromone!
You have to have confidence to walk up to a lady you would like to know and engage her in conversation.
I was a late bloomer, it wasn't until my late-20's I realised the sky wasn't going to fall in if a girl rejected my advances, and I haven't looked back.
On the other hand, there's nothing that stinks like a skunk on a person than the sweet scent of 'eau de desperation!' lol | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 6/2/2008 5:01:31 AM |
silver calla: "Often the men you are describing are approaching the wrong people. Just because you are attracted to someone does not mean you are compatible with them, or that they will be attracted to you.. "
see, women have double standard, and Wonkabar is right. When the man appear like an alpha male with money, look, status; whatever he does is confidence and he can do no harm. but when the man has none of the money, look, status; he can do no good; he is creepy, pushy and call him imcompatable. Thats double standard! | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 6/2/2008 5:42:22 AM | "Many don't dress in a manner that is attractive!"
I dress how I want- not at all bothered if it doesn't appeal to the ladies.
And I've ended pretty much every relationship I've been in (for one reason or another)
I was thinking about the OP's post ^^ up there somewhere, and I did find that I was in my last relationship for 'relationships sake'.... being pretty philosophical about it all, I then ended it.
Yeah it's a lot to do with confidence, but when you meet the right person, it's almost effortless because the feelings are mutual. Personally, the more effort both parties have to put in (in the initial stages), the less chance you have of woking out.
It should- just flow.
I'll chase, for all of 5 minutes... till I realise that I can speak to most women easier than I can men. Guess I'm lucky in that respect...
Granted- for any man it's a little uncomfortable to go and speak to the 'hottest' gal in the room, but if you don't push yourself, you cannot overcome.
Every day is a learning experience, so there's no point in being afraid of living.
And theres one thing that breaks the ice better than alcohol- Laughing. Preferably at yourself ;)
my 2 cents | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 6/2/2008 7:44:28 AM |
see, women have double standard, and Wonkabar is right. When the man appear like an alpha male with money, look, status; whatever he does is confidence and he can do no harm. but when the man has none of the money, look, status; he can do no good; he is creepy, pushy and call him imcompatable. Thats double standard!
Of course that is the conclusion you would draw from my post. As I said in an earlier post, you are living the reality you believe in.
Confidence does not involve moaning about superficiality. If one is not interested, confidence allows one to move on from there. Looks/money/status have nothing to do with what I am saying. Compatibility does, however.
Not everyone is going to be attracted to another person. This does not mean for superficial reasons, but it will be if you tell yourself it is.
A) he didn't say every, and B) the women who use the sort of language I am referring to, are in fact being overly egotistical about it. Or maybe those sorts of men should just "learn their place" and approach "their" kind of women only, instead of thinking, nay, being confident that any women with any self-worth would want them?
No, he said the women who do not reply. Hence, every woman who does not reply to his messages.
You can try to imply all you want about the "evil wimmins" who are not looking for, well, whoever is complaining about them at the time.
You said yourself, the definition of insanity is doing something over and over and expecting a different result. This, again, has to do with compatibility. If you are not getting results, then maybe you are not compatibile with the people you are contacting. So try something different. | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 6/2/2008 9:44:49 AM | It is all about the attitude. I like a guy who isn't whining and blaming others for whatever happens in his life. And the other extreme isn't very attractive either, always thinking that he is due something in life because he is special.
I am very attracted to people (any kind of relationship, from friends to mates) who can take responsibility for who they are and can find happiness within themselves. People who are truly happy with themselves usually have a good confidence level. Their happiness doesn't need others for validation and thus they tend to be more giving. They are easier to be around. | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 6/2/2008 2:28:19 PM | I think most of us just need a little practice and familiarity to gain confidence in anything.
I suspect the confidence being discussed here, that so many women find attractive in a man, is social confidence. That is the ability to be cool, collected, even charming, in any social situation. For most people, all that takes is practice socializing with other people who are friendly and social as well. And a little booze helps to get things flowing. | |
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| Is confidence THE pheromone?
Posted: 6/2/2008 2:47:22 PM | I read much of this thread.
OP Yes, Confidence effects women in a very deep primal way,
that sparks attraction. They in fact come prewired from the factory
in this manner! lol Although feeling this attraction through text is
a little unusual. Sounds a little more like an obsession to me!
But as I mentioned earlier, there are still a host of factors determining
if a relationship is even possible. | |
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