|
|
|
|
|
| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/10/2008 10:44:11 PM | Sweethang posted
<div class="quote">I think you misunderstand the concept. I never said that women take advantage of the man, in this way. In fact, I said that women contribute to the tune of approx 120,000 a year, didn't I? That's what you gentlemen seem to forget. It's not about money, per se...but, many of you have become bitter (in my opinion) because you THINK that women are taking advantage of you.
However, notice the women DON'T THINK YOU'RE taking advantage of THEM by asking them to cook, clean, take care of the children, laundry, etc.
Sweethang your not even on topic anymore. Your in your own little world. I think you just argue for the fact of arguing. Do you argue with yourself in your sleep too?
I don't think the woman the ~OP~ was talking about is cooking his dinner and washing his laundry or what ever else your tossing in there for arguement persay.
What does cooking, cleaning, taking care of children, doing laundry have to do with a man an a woman sitting in a restaurant eatting raw fish and him drinking a sprite?
Stay on Topic Sweethang, or go argue with your bathroom mirror.
Original post below:
<div class='quote'>Okay, so Sunday night I made dinner and ate. Someone calls me up to go eat sushi at 9 pm. I say I've already ate at 7 but I'll go with her.
We goto a sushi place and she orders her food. I order a Sprite. The bill comes at the end and is like 12 bucks. I didn't offer anything because it was a Sprite and I was invited. I think nothing of it.
Well fast forward to tonight(Friday). I get a message saying thanks for letting me pay for your Sprite. This wasn't our first contact since that night. Since when did a Sprite get to be $80? I then have it explained to me that she is use to having guys pay for her and the guy should especially pay for himself. I didn't ask her out, she asked me out. I ate nothing. If I had water was I suppose to pay for that too?
Then to make things better, she has deleted me off myspace. Because I didn't pay for a soda? Seriously, the world has come to this? I should pay for the pleasure of watching her eat? Was this a test and if so what did I get tested on? Being cheap because I don't pay for everything she does? We aren't even dating. This was the first time we had gone out to a restaurant.
I know I say women are crazy in Vegas but give me a break. I know now that I should pay two bucks for a soda now. I'm not sure why but I guess it's wrong for a woman to splurge for a soda for me to hang out with them.
So what should be my resolution?
(1) Let it die. It's better to know what kind of person she is
(2) Get her address to mail her $2. Pay for insurance on the letter so she knows I'm not cheap.
(3) Ask her out again and act like nothing happened and grab the check.
(4) Ask her out again and expect her to pay dutch.
(5) Stop dating crazy women.
Feel free to make all the comments you like on this subject. I can't wait to hear how I am wrong...
Personally I'd move on and never give it another thought. I think her and sweethang should go out and eat together and then they can argue who pays for who. | |
|
| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/10/2008 10:44:37 PM | You should find it hard to believe I could take advantage of a man, because I wouldn't.
I could take you any day on a tennis court, or probably in any other sport.
Yeah, I know I'm the ignorant one, because I don't expect some guy to take care of me, sorry, but "I" can take care of myself.
......................................................................................................................................
I didn't say you "wouldn't" take advantage of a man, I said you "couldn't". I'm also not tryin to play a 50yr old woman in tennis, then I would have to hear VULF aka Mr. Honest, bashing me for breaking your hip or something. He doesn't see the antagonistic approach you take on my posts, but only the end result when I set your ass straight. He has the underdog mentality, that, or he would like you to buy him dinner one night.
Mike, glad to see you you're talkin to 3 chicks. From what I read, #3 sounds HOT!  | |
|
| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/10/2008 10:50:16 PM | Ouu...can anyone say 'bitter'? Actually, it has a lot to do with it. You see, the sprite is the first step regarding creating a relationship with another, which is what I was trying to explain in the beginning. You can't get to that relationship, unless you respect the person for what they can bring to the table. And, what they bring to the table might not be in a financial sense. It could very well be "MUCH MORE!" But, how will any of you know, if you don't stop worrying about what you might lose, just by being a gentleman...or, even a friend?
Nah, no sense in arguing with those that have their mind set, regardless of new information being input.
As one great man said to me, "There are those that can only see one small frame, even though there are many frames. And, those, my lovely friend, are the ones that are not worth your time."
Enjoy the frame, hehe. ;) | |
|
| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/10/2008 10:59:25 PM | Thank you, kelle. Still more proof that none of us can read minds.
I do see the hostility you speak of. I see yours, too. Hell, I only tried to broker the peace. I didn't fault you for your misstatement. I make mistakes. We all do, all the time. I'm not interested in playing 'gotcha.' I was trying to help out. I am sorry you took it so hard.
I don't know what you mean by "the underdog mentality," but I do know there's no need to fear. And I do like dinner, no matter who's buying. So, no harm, no foul.
Honest!
AKA Vulf  
no sense in arguing with those that have their mind set, regardless of new information being input.
Sweetha, dear, that's what people have been saying to you. You haven't acknowledged or dealt with one bit of information offered to you, not that I've seen. And the information you give us is either irrelevant quotations or information about sweetha and the girls. Sooooo, what? | |
|
| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/10/2008 11:03:44 PM | # 3 is pretty hot Kelly. I know I said she was cute, smart and funny but I'm not sure why you would question it. I think you just like the fact that she is a Red Sox fan.
Should I add that she is a professional smart ass too?  | |
|
| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/10/2008 11:16:45 PM | I think we're missing the important question here. Where the hell could you possibly spend $80 on sushi for one person?
I live in the middle of the freaking continent, and a stuff-myself-til-I-explode meal at our best sushi restaurant here would probably cost me $40 at most. | |
|
| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/10/2008 11:24:36 PM | VULF, this is what you said to me....
kell, is it honest to reword someone's argument so that it is easier to dismiss than to deal with her real argument? For instance, no one here has said that you are 'a "user" because [you] enjoy a man taking care of [you].' You are a user if you insist that a man pay for everything, even when it is your responsibility and not his. Trust me, no one has taken a position on your "enjoyment." It's only about what you do.
....................................................................................................................................
You keep talking about ME making misstatements, I replied to this post by jnh...
....................................................................................................................................
I know you don't know much about that, but that's okay, because now, everyone that reads this knows, YOU expect to be taken care of. Good luck with that.
What's real is that women like you and the one the OP is talking about are just users.
.....................................................................................................................................
Now I ask you Mr. Honest, is it right to reword my argument rather than to read all of the posts? Maybe I'm an idiot, but I think that rabid woman called me a "user"! And why? Because I gave my opinon on my likes? Because I ENJOY certain things a man does for me? Now she wants to kick my ass in tennis? Well good frickin luck with that old lady!  | |
|
| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/10/2008 11:25:48 PM | You certainly proved my friend's saying right, Vulf!
Just because I disagree with your thoughts does not mean I don't respect your right to have them. However, apparantly, you believe that no one else should have any other opinion, besides yours. So, I will leave you to those thoughts and be the mature adult, by stepping aside. Enjoy your forever singular frame! :) | |
|
| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 1:45:10 AM | dance monkey dance
This has nothing to do with manners - and you miss my point completely. What I am saying is that you stand a better chance of 'getting what you want' if you treat people with respect.
In the realm of dating this usually means treating someone as a romantic partner - not many people don't want to feel special on a date! It's horses for courses, but most women I know like to be treated like a lady - because they act like a lady - but if you don't believe in all that ... fine. But you can't have it both ways and yearn for grace and femininity when you asked for a similar partner to yourself and an input of 50/50! It is my belief that men and women both have valuable things to 'bring to the table' - but these aren't necessarily of the same proportion at the same time - why else do we seek the excitement of romantic love?
For most other major achievements in life you have to be your best, try your best, think it through and (god forbid) fit in with other people - if you go throughout life thinking that everyone should fit in with you whether they like it or not - you won't get very far. Why should this be different when it comes to romance!?
For the record, I am talking about men as well as women, good manners are wonderful barriers to put up if the other person shows disrespect and a bad upbringing - you just don't let them in. To precis the original situation, she invited him to a meal and expected him to pay - bad manners. He ordered a drink and didn't pay for it - bad manners. She rejected him later that week - bad manners. She learns not to invite unless she forks out, and he learns that if he wants to keep someone unequivocally interested he pays for his own drink, or suggests that they make it another more convenient time. But whatever the outcome, if you display good manners, you know that you gave it your best shot - and it's their loss if the relationship fails.
PS - (Momarks) I have no interest in the developing saga of individuals' lovelifes as the post goes on, just the subject of the post which is fascinating enough. Many thanks. | |
|
| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 3:40:42 AM |
PS - (Momarks) I have no interest in the developing saga of individuals' lovelifes as the post goes on, just the subject of the post which is fascinating enough. Many thanks
developing saga? lovelifes?
nah...
the subject of the post: you just needed to hit the op history in order to have seen the new information he put up. it would have helped you- or not- in your choice of what to say.
you really do have selective reading ability as the comment about reading everyone's posting history could not have been taking seriously. at least not as seriously as ' clicking on the OP posting history. Try that option. I put up five or 6 options, just as the OP did with his options. feel free to do one of them.. or not.. your choice.
what is funny is that those people professing to possess good manners rarely ever do.
THese ' I have good manners - YOu should try it people" are the first to jump in to pronounce a person's photos to be fake and that the person sounds conceited or whatever yet insist that they are in fact really polite and huggable sort of person.
the polite thing would have been to say nothing at all but then where would we all be...
Those people who don't care that other people see them are rude or arrogant usually have the good graces to allow the other people to have their point of view. THese rude/arrogant people are actually more polite and civil that those who hold the mask of politeness up to their face. | |
|
| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 10:58:46 AM | Sweethang??????????? This thread is about a man that cooked his own diner about 7pm one night and a short while later a woman called him to go eat. He told her he had ate but would go with her. The lady orders her diner and he orders a pop.
Your looking at this with Tunnel Vision Sweethang. The woman ditched him due to a pop and him not paying for her dinner.. I say the woman is a gold digger and the only reason she called him or any other guy to go eat with her is because no one else asked her out so she had to call an make her own date. I REPEAT She called him and she invited him. He already ate and he told her that. Is she such a cheapo she expected him to feed her just because he set at the same table?
What does this have to do with Dishes,Laundry,Kids,House work? An you talk about women bringing things into a relationship/companionship. Well doesn't men bring things into a companionship /relationship too?
Sweethang100? Are you saying that this is what you would do? Invite someone to go with an sit and drink a pop while you ate and then expect him to pay for your meal? Then would you not talk to him because he didn't pick up the tab for your meal?
OK BACK ON TOPIC !
OP I wouldn't feel like your much at a loss if I was you. I'd be polite to her if she contacts you again but I think I would find someone that likes you for you. Not someone that only wants something to do with you if you will pay for her meals while you drink a pop.
Now if you would have called her an invited her then yes I'm a firm believer if you invite , then you pay.:modhammer: | |
|
| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 1:09:02 PM | Actually, she didn't say that according to the op. SHE was ticked that HE didn't even offer to pay for HIS drink! Oh, and by the way, SHE DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT HIM PAYING FOR HER MEAL! That was an assumption on the op's part and many other men here. Hmm...
No, I'm looking at it from a woman's standpoint, and you're seeing it from a male standpoint.
I said that women bring more to the table 'once you're in a relationship', than JUST financial. I also pointed out that women have routinely looked at men as NOT JUST providers, but protectors and strong points in the family unit, for centuries. Thus, MANY women would see this as CHEAP and not good 'Provider 'OR' PROTECTOR' material, for a possible FUTURE relationship.
Now, the op is asking if HE should send her money, or blow her off. I think someone has FORGOTTEN that SHE DELETED HIM, and BLEW HIM OFF A LONG TIME AGO, and won't even accept his contacts, Duh! Did someone miss this part of the op's post?
Maybe you forgot to read the rest of the posts 'I' posted, where I actually tie the aspects of the conversation together?
It's funny how MANY others can see the correlation; the link, if you might, but some of you can't. Yes, it's very interesting, indeed!
By the way, SHE'S MADE NO CONTACT WITH THE OP! Does that ELUDE some of you that are trying to determine what the op should do? It looks like SHE'S already made HER decision about what SHE wants to do, and HAS ALREADY DONE IT!
This reminds me of a gentleman I ran into not that long ago. 'I' WASN'T interested in him, after I heard him speak for a bit. I told him this! He had been contacting me for days, multiple times, and kept telling me how he wanted to take it further, meet, have a life with me, etc.
Once I told him I wasn't interested in him, because I felt we thought differently about many issues...all of a sudden, he told me that it was ok, because he was speaking to someone else that was "moving in with him."
I wished him well, and was happy for him, naturally. He saved his ego (or so he thought), but according to his messages on 'the same day' that I told him I wasn't interested in him, he was thinking in terms of 'long term with ME!' hehe. I wouldn't want to be the gal that was moving down to be with him...if there was even a real gal. ;)
The point I'm trying to make is that SHE ISN'T INTERESTED IN HIM, anymore, and SHE MADE THAT PERFECTLY CLEAR...and yet, he's STILL trying to figure out what HE'S GOING TO DO?? This is soooo silly, at best, at least to me!
Reality is...she's more than likely 'NOT' going to contact him again. SHE doesn't care about his certified check, and SHE'S NOT interested in what HE THINKS about what SHE THINKS about him. She already told HIM what she thought of HIM, and that is that SHE considers HIM to be CHEAP, because HE DIDN'T EVEN OFFER TO PAY FOR HIS OWN DRINK!!! | |
|
| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 1:27:05 PM | There's no way I'm going to read all the responses to this post. But from what I have seen, I'm amazed at how many people are making a huge deal out of this.
Sure, it's nice to offer a little cash for your Sprite. Whatever. Shame on you.
But really! It's a freakin' Sprite! Big fat deal! Oh my-- I had no idea that so many people could be so deeply offended by a $2 oversight. This thread should be a field day for any social psychologists. To say nothing of the girl in question, who is clearly stuck on the image of a perfect and flawless knight in shining white armor to come riding in on his glorious white stallion, sweep her off her feet, and pay for his Sprite.
"Good day and fair weather, m'lady. I come to you bearing the honors and goodwill of the lordly castle from which I have ridden forthwith to seek your hand. I offer unto you this noble token of my love, in exchange for this, the saintly glass of Sprite soda."
Ha! I say, go with option 2. Mail her the freakin' money that she cares so much about, and maybe include a long, colorful letter of congratulations on winning the lottery.
But seriously... yeah, just let it go. Anyway it sounds like she's already gone. | |
|
| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 1:31:20 PM | he said that the reason for her not wishing to continue seeing him was :
1. he didn't pay for his sprite after she had invited him
2. the guys in the past always paid for her meals. Did she also say that the guy should pay for everything. people may have inferred that from her comment in the text.
it seemed to some people that she was miffed at his not paying for the entire thing but settled at the most obvious and least contentious.
Its probably 30-40-30 s
30 % of the women believe that since she invited him, she pays for everything
40% of the women tbelieve she should pay for hers and the guy pays for his own.
30% of the women believe that the guy should pick up the bill on everything all the time.
The first 2 groups could be rearranged to suit your fancy yet there exists a large group of women who still insist that the guy pay for everything.
There was the question about why it took her 5 days to get upset or say something about it. AS she said nothing at the time and based upon what happened later on, she was more than happy with being with the guy for the rest of the evening.
It is funny that the person who now states that no one is allowing her to have her just finished doing that exact thing for the last 2 days..oh well
People think your belief about who pays etc is wrong. You are allowed to have that opinion.
YOur manner of arguing is contentious but yet again, no big deal.
What people took issue with is how you derided most people, coming just shy of outright namecalling yet it's effects were the same - it was noted- then hid behind the shield of " i didn't do it!" a la BArt Simpson. then cried foul at anyone who commented negatively about you....lol..
You addressed very few of the points in the rebuttals yet rambled on about things not even pertinent to the OP.
Yes, we all know how these things relate to relationships yet that was not the point of the OP.
You are confusing " a few people who agreed with you on the thread " with " many " . AS "many" others didn't post anything .
There are "many " people who are aware that the woman's contribution to the marriage /relationship is not always financial yet is in every way equal if not better than the husband's contribution.
But that has little to do with this thread.
oh well.. life goes on for us all.
WE each look for someone who fits our viewpoint of the world.
as is mike. who appears no worse for wear.
He was never bitter . His posts were always calm and direct.
I am more fascinated at the moment by an entirely different revelation on this thread. | |
|
| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 1:39:54 PM | message 181
.....I also stopped talking to her after she made the fact that I was just a $$$ to her because I should ALWAYS pay for her meal according to the text. When she texted after the Friday when she blew up about this, I ignored the text. I don't want someone in MY life like this. Sure I contacted her after Sunday night. Amazingly enough she contacted me also. Me on Tue, her on Wed.
message 79
Me: Seriously, you want to have an argument over two dollars?
Her: It's not that I can't afford 2 dollars. Its just that a guy usually pays. Or at least they always have with me. Especially for their own stuff.
Me: Well I'm sorry. Glad to see your reaction is to delete someone. Little shocked by it but I guess you have your reasons.
Her: Yeah I do. I wish I didn't though. I really like you.
Me: Well maybe you can explain it to me one day. One soda makes no sense but I guess I look at it differently.
Her: Yeah oh well.
message 35
She's 28 years old, I'm 37. Maybe it's an age difference thing, maybe not?
It was our third time to meet up in two months. Both times before it was for "coffee"(really juice since neither of us drinks coffee) and I paid for it both times. In my mind it was the right thing to do because I asked her to meet up.
Another thing that confuses me is why would it come up 5 days later when we have talked in between? Seriously, shouldn't it have come up before then?
Explanation of where the 80 bucks comes in
The eighty bucks was just to show that in my mind, a Sprite isn't expensive. I didn't order a ton of alcohol and not pay. Bottled water is more expensive there. Some think it is cheap because I didn't throw in any money. I don't carry cash so should have I asked for a split check? If someone did that to me I'd be insulted more that they won't let me pay for the soda.
I don't know where she cut off all contact with him unless you are counting removing him from facebook. This is hardly a slap in the face. But ...
yes, she cut off contact with him Wednesday after she contacted him the last time. or he cut off contact with her after she last called him on Wednesday.
Does it really matter? She said it was done on Friday- 5 days after their Sunday date.
SHe contacted him a couple of times after she sent the " since you won't pay- i won't play " text... He contacted her on Sunday. not much was said about what happened in that one.
He spoke/text to her on Tuesday
Then she contacted him on Wednesday.
not much was mentioned about what was said those times.
So who cut off contact with whom is debatable. but pointless.. who cares..
it only seems important to people who want these sort of things to be a battle in which one person wins.
The thing ended. He didn't seem to be overly concerned aobut it's ending but was baffled/bemused about the manner in which it happened.
like just about everything in life, its not so much WHAT happened but HOW it was described or explained away.
Not always what you say but how you say it. sort of thing.
| |
|
| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 1:49:56 PM | I could easily go point for point, with you, however, it's silly to do so, because I would be here typing like many on this board do...for weeks and no one would read that lengthy a post, anyway. Instead, they would just scan through it, like most. Instead, I relate things in a way that has the most effect!
30% does not make an entire SEX. It also does not mean that 'MOST' PEOPLE AGREE with you. ;)
Maybe you're just ultra sensitive to the issue, and that's why you take it that way?
In actuality, I've only posted my beliefs and based my information not only on my own beliefs, but also on thoughts of women that have spanned across the centuries, long before you or I were ever born.
I've not called anyone names, but according to you, MY TONE bordered on calling names? I didn't know you could 'READ' a tone. Last I checked, in order to have a 'TONE', you must have a 'sound'!
In fact, I never put anyone down, but you did. I never called names, but several of the guys here, did and a couple of the women. I stuck to 'facts' and you took that as ridicule, when there never was any. I posted information from the 'encyclopedia', news articles, and other avenues of well-known citation, and presented qualified argument (not ad hominems) that would have held up in a court of law, and you saw that as inflammatory.
That's why I say, men have become biased and bitter, because of their interactions with 'some' women...similar to what they don't like, when women do the same with them. Tell a guy, here, that all men cheat...and watch him go off the deep end defending his sex and attacking the poor woman who believed it.
However, when men say and think that 'all' women are just out to get their paychecks, and they act on that (simply because the lady thought he would pay for his own drink) [mind you, if it were a guy sitting there drinking with him, he would offer to pay for his buddy's drink] and he would think this bizarre?
Oh, and he contacted her, and she was nice enough to CONTACT HIM BACK in response. Nice gal, considering she could have easily JUST BLOWN HIM OFF, COMPLETELY and not answered his emails. So, at least she was considerate!
"I 'also' stopped talking to her after she made the fact that I was just a $$$ to her because I should ALWAYS pay for her meal according to the text." Duh, she already blew him off, duh! It was a DONE DEAL, already! Hence, the ops communication "I 'ALSO"!
See, this is where the op went wrong: He 'thought' that "I also stopped talking to her after she made the fact that I was just a $$$ to her because I should ALWAYS pay for her meal" Did she tell him that he was just $$ to her? NO, that was an 'assumption' on his part! It was NOT A 'FACT', as he determined it. Did she say, he should 'ALWAYS' pay for her meals? NO, again, that was just an ASSUMPTION on HIS part.
And, you know what they say about assumptions, don't you? What is an assumption? When you assume, you make an "ass out of u to me." ASS-U-ME!
Need I say more? | |
|
| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 2:01:05 PM | go point for point if you wish.
it simply brings more people in to the thread.
you have a different way of looking at things to be sure.
It should have been clear; I am sorry that I failed you on this one.
30% of all the women who viewed this thread agree that the guy should pay for everything.
30% of all the women who have viewed this thread disagree that the guy should have paid.
40 % don't give a rat's a$$ either way and find this all amusing.
This is just my opinion. the percentages could be different give or take a few points.
the gist is that :
a small but significant portion think it's wrong.
a small but significant portion think it's right.
I haven't argued along the lines that I believe that everyone must agree with me. I have taken issue with how you present your 'facts'.
I disagree with your contention that a gentlemen is defined by " he pays".
It has been pointed out by many people that you have tried to shove your viewpoint down our collective throat. and skirted the issue many times. it's no big deal but this is how people saw what you were doing.
In a strange way, I agree with you: there are many women who believe that the man should pay for dinner, if not everything.
and of these women, a substantial portion believe that this means that the man is a gentleman and cares deeply for the woman. or whatever else they believe it means.
oh my god, you actually quoted " ass of you and me!" .... that is too funny.. I have been waiting for the entire time I have been here for someone to dreg that old chestnut up... and laugh at them.........
talk about redund diddly dundant... this is too funny...
you are too much...
so things that have been going on for hundreds of years is a good thing.. no matter how out of touch it is? okay...
it has always been the case that the woman's place was in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant while the guy is out having a mistress. What's to stop these crazy guys who want this sort of society back in vogue from complaining.. oh wait... there probably is a thread about that one now.....lol
Also, women's wages have always been at least 18% to perhaps 40% below the man's wage for similar work and same results. This has been going on for a number of years as well. Where does it end? .... so some crazy guy is going to complain- maybe not here but elsewhere- that if he has to pay for everything , then he better earn more money than his potential dates.
Your comparison of the man paying for the shot MAY JUST IN FACT EXPLAIN THE NEED TO KEEP THE WOMAN FROM HAVING EQUAL WAGES.
Why pay her the same amount of money as a guy when some guy may need the money in order to pay for her meals and upkeep?
it could be that the boss or society was just smoothing out the unravelled fabric of society when it became apparent that the guy was happy paying the bills.
or we could go back to the time when the man EXPECTED a blowjob after paying for the young lady's meal. What happened to those times? lol...
If the guy pays for the meal, he's a gentleman...and ....
a lady knows that this means that she must then put out when he takes her home.
There are going to be a great many men ( but not great men ) who argue that " hey i bought dinner and she didn't put out!! " .. oh wait,,, we have those threads now..
This is all crazy if not completely ludicrous.
Then we are going to have threads about how guys don't build houses for the women anymore.... oh wait,, we have that one already...
all these " high sense of entitlement with very little substance" people are amusing.
They haven't shown WHY they deserve these things given to them.
Note:
the men's arguments for these things will be invalid if not completely wrong- namely as they will be almost entirely self -serving.. A self serving argument is NOT always wrong mind you. however in this case, since one side is so unfairly treated - their choice is taken away from them for one thing - their self serving argument is just flat out wrong.
They want it and argue for it simply because it serves their purpose: they benefit from it. While doing very little if not almost nothing to contribute to getting it. Just for being there really..
much like the argument for the guy always paying.
WHy are the laughing hyenas worth having?
What is it that you bring to the table?
| |
|
| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 2:16:22 PM | When you assume, you make an "ass out of u to me." ASS-U-ME! Notice I said "to" not you 'and' me?
No, I don't have that much time to waste in the forums, to go point for point, with everyone who disagrees. Maybe you do, and I wish you well with that. Besides, everyone is entitled to their thoughts and opinions. No one said you had to AGREE with mine. That's YOUR ASSUMPTION, once again! However, I am entitled to believe what I want too. How about that?
You got these figures, how?? Did you just pull them out of a hat?
How about we do this...we'll do a 'real' survey in the forum.
All women that think men should pay for their own drinks, and not expect the woman to pay for them, post the word, "YES", below.
All those who think the woman should pay for the man's drinks, Post the word, "NO".
Let's see how many women really think this guy is wrong, shall we? That is...if you want 'real' figures, of course?
Oh, and I never said, that 'my' contention is a gentlemen is defined by " he pays". That again, is YOUR ASSUMPTION! You certainly do a lot of assuming, don't you?
I believe that the man should pay for his own drink, since he did drink. If nothing else, he should have been considerate.
"it has always been the case that the woman's place was in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant while the guy is out having a mistress. What's to stop these crazy guys who want this sort of society back in vogue from complaining.. oh wait... there probably is a thread about that one now.....lol
Also, women's wages have always been at least 18% to perhaps 40% below the man's wage for similar work and same results. This has been going on for a number of years as well. Where does it end? .... so some crazy guy is going to complain- maybe not here but elsewhere- that if he has to pay for everything , then he better earn more money than his potential dates."
Yes, and it's still like that. Women are still in the kitchen having babies, barefoot and pregnant. Aren't you guys glad they are the ones giving birth, instead of you? hehe.
Yes, and that's something many of you men might wish to take into consideration. This woman might have kids she has to support and she's going to pay for your drink too? Hmm...considering her paycheck is probably much less than yours, it's something to think about. And by the way, there is presently a bill regarding this, that hopefully will change the lady's paychecks to be a bit more equal. Then again, with the econony the way it is...well, we will see what happens. :)
| |
|
| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 2:25:17 PM | are you sure that you have not said that a gentleman pays. ?
these are from this thread.
message 224
Or maybe, she liked him, was thinking in terms of long term, figured he was taught properly regarding how to be a gentleman, realized he wasn't, and decided she didn't want a part of him...which explains why she deleted him from her page.
this was when she realized he wasn't a gentleman when he didn't offer to pay.. no pay= not a gentleman. so the definition of a gentleman includes " one who pays "
Look, reality is...no matter what most women say, the ladies still look to men to be GENTLEMEN! And, that includes paying for her meal, even though she protests. This isn't a way to take you, fellas, although there is always the bad apple or two that will take advantage of the situation.
you said it pretty much right there.
message 226
Look fellas, if you don't believe me, hang back one day, when around a bunch of ladies talking and just eavesdrop into one of their convos about men paying for them on a date, and find out for yourselves. It's that easy! I guarantee you will hear the word, "CHEAP" passed around like a piece of chocolate, hehe. Women still expect men to be gentlemen, regardless of what you think. Just because I say it outright, because I don't care what one thinks of me for stating the truth, instead of playing these silly dating games, doesn't make me the bad guy...just the messenger. So, don't shoot the messenger
the comment about " i ve been waiting for someone to say ass u me " sort of thing .... I used to post a disclaimer about ' yes,, we all know what assuming does..."
I was waiting for some dunderhead to bring out that chestnut and be sincere about it s use. It is such a well known phrase that I wondered " what fool would use that one?"
and now I know..
The figures...lol.. its' like the person who questions the 80 bucks...
we are not allowed to take a poll.
the numbers are based upon a mathematical system on how people interact with any other group.
This group may be not a random sample as so many men and so many women on the forums have been so horribly mistreated by their partner but it may even out.
In any given situation where something as contentious as this is in effect- the numbers usually play out around those numbers.
it usually is 20-60-20 or 25-50-25.. yet I figured that this group is a deeply opinionated group . so more people care at either end.
you have to word the question differently as this doesn't reflect any real situation.
I would vote NO ON THAT ONE.
nO ONE should be obligated to pay for anyone's drinks.
however to make a big deal about this is something else entirely. | |
|
| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 2:31:47 PM | So, essentially you made up the numbers. There is no mathematical system. I've often taught college level math and you're talking statistics. You cannot take statistics and work it that way, without clear guidelines, of which you have none.
There is a problem with you voting 'no'...the survey participants would have to be female! And, I suspect, since you're male...you don't qualify. :)
You mean, you and she would walk into the restaurant...you would order drinks, she would order and NO ONE should pay? I think the restaurant owner might be a bit miffed about that, eh?
Someone has to pay. Let's see...I think HE SHOULD PAY FOR HIS OWN DRINK and SHE SHOULD PAY FOR HERS! Now, that sounds fair, doesn't it?
Does anyone disagree with this philosophy? If no one thinks that's incorrect...then, clearly, he was in the wrong!
I rest my case and put the decision into the hands of his/her honor and the jury. ;) | |
|
| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 2:35:15 PM | #1 rule: the inviter pays
#2 rule: it's nice if the invitee does a "reach", however that's not necessary
#3 rule: if the invitee does a "reach", it better be genuine
In this situation I'd do a genuine "reach". That reach doesn't mean I'd pay for her fish, just my soda. | |
|
| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 2:40:30 PM | the 'system" is that in any group, there is always people who care at either end about anything and a great many people in the middle who don't care.
I suspect that this is the same.
you could say 10-80-10
15-70-15 or any combination that had 1 standard deviation around the mean with a smaller percentage of people in the outlier position.
you could do a stem and leaf sketch if you wish and it would show the same.
a box and whisker chart would be more appropriate as it would show just how few care.
You know as well as I do ( probably more ) that the greatest % of people is found within 1 sd from the norm- you know the percentages.
so there is a group of people +- 1 SD from the norm. these people don't really care and see both sides.
then the group between 1 and 2 SD on either side. they are more insistent.
and then between 2 and 3 SD- these people are rabid in their response.
Its pretty much the same in every scenario.
What math courses do you teach?
YOur scenario is NOT the one in question.
People should pay for their own drinks. People can offer to pay for someone else's drinks. People can accept that offer to have their drinks paid for them.
there should always be a choice.
Your earlier scenario removed the option of choice.
you are kinda ignoring the part of where you defined being a gentleman with ponying up the dough. it wasn't exclusive but you included this as being something that defines a gentleman.
those are you posts.
I think you never did address this definition of yours.
and what these hyenas have to offer over and above what other women have.
Of course I am doing them a dis-service to compare these to the other animal..
for that I will apologize in advance to the hyenas.
I should have used the term vulture. | |
|
| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 2:55:58 PM | "the 'system" is that in any group, there is always people who care at either end about anything and a great many people in the middle who don't care. I suspect that this is the same."
No, this is incorrect, this is clearly another 'opinion' of yours, but it hardly makes it fact. It depends on the study done, in case you're not aware of it. For instance, if you take a group of people that have cancer, all the victims will care. All will have some sort of an opinion, one way or another. So that negates your 'opinion' of this system.
What math courses do you teach?
I've taught primary to college level courses in both math and language arts.
YOur scenario is NOT the one in question.
Isn't it? He asked questions regarding the drink, as in, what he should do. This equates to, he wants an opinion as to what's right or wrong. Others have pointed out 'opinions' from Ms Manners, etc. Why would this be any different? Other women are the ones that are affected by a situation such as this. He didn't even offer to pay, which put her in a position that she not only had to pay for her meal, but his drink too. Now, if he offered to pay for the drink that HE DRANK, that would be one thing, but he didn't. He JUST ASSUMED that she would take care of it. How arrogant and disrespectful can one get?
"People should pay for their own drinks. People can offer to pay for someone else's drinks. People can accept that offer to have their drinks paid for them."
Well, isn't that what I'm saying? He should have paid for his drink, at least? She made no offer to him to pay for his drink. Who is he to ASSUME SHE SHOULD pay for HIS drink?
"there should always be a choice."
Apparantly, the op didn't think so, because he GAVE HER NO CHOICE, nor did HE make ANY OFFER!
"Your earlier scenario removed the option of choice " Did it? I could have swore I gave the ladies a choice.
"you are kinda ignoring the part of where you defined being a gentleman with ponying up the dough. it wasn't exclusive but you included this as being something that defines a gentleman. "
Actually, I never ignored anything. What I really said was "for centuries, women have been looking to men to be both provider and protector, as well as other aspects of a head of a household. I also made mention that women bring much more to the table then 'JUST' financial aspects, which is something many men don't realize. Thus, many women (given the same situation) would perceive this man, and any other man that follows in this philosophy, as ungentlemanly."
And, regarding the "hyenas", it's just a well-known fact that women (like men) will compare the opposite sex when they get together. Yes, they will laugh at the shallow people that are so busy worrying about whether they're going to pay for the lady's meal, that they don't even realize that they just let the lady pay for their drink.
They would more than likely consider that fella CHEAP, and would probably never go out with them again. Of course, who could blame them? The guy, without realizing it, just told the lady that he had severe anger issues with women as a whole.
And...here comes Vulf...again. Watch and learn about human nature, hehe.
And of course, my response stands...as I said previously, Vulf...someone has to be an adult, not to mention a lady...and since you are neither, I must be both. You are entitled to YOUR OPINIONS, as always! :)
| |
|
| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 3:09:24 PM | You first, kelle. I regret that I wasn't more clear. You were insulted, things said about you that none of us could even know. And those remarks of mine you quote still seem to me to exonerate you. I meant to be clear that someone - not necessarily you or anyone, just "someone" - could justly be called a user if! If if if! s/he expects the other party to pay for everything in all circumstances. You never said that, which I guess I only implied. Of course you take pleasure in another's care and attention! So say we all! OK?
Now, Bikeman has recounted the rules as they have stood for centuries. He only left out one refinement that I think is important. When the guest"reaches" (offers to contribute to the bill, yes?), the host should decline the first offer, because the guest's pleasure is the host's responsibility. However, if the guest then insists on contributing, then the host is obliged (again, as always, by responsibility for the guest's comfort and pleasure) to accept the contribution with warm thanks.
And y'all gotta stop hammering on sweetha. There doesn't appear to be a nail to drive. She's turned a blind eye to the difference between fact and personal preference, and is pleased to call any and all factual information offered to her "opinion," and so co-equal with her mere preferences. She claims to be an authority on our question and ignores the rulings of the real authorities. And when her dishonest methods are pointed out, she calls that a personal attack, though of course it isn't. You can't argue with Humpty Dumpty, for whom a word means whatever s/he says it means, nothing more and nothing less.
It's moot, anyway. Sweetha isn't going to invite anyone out. Those of us who come correct don't have to convince her of her error(s). Even if we did, nothing else in this earth would change.
Cheers!
Vulf  | |
|
| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 3:30:55 PM | Momarks...
Dude.. don't even try to talk to her.. she is nothing but a user.. that's all there is to it! Plain and simple!
She herself even said this.. in so many words.. let her go use.. that IS what she is used to after all! lol | |
|
|
| Page 13 of 18
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 |
|
Home
login 
