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| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 3:41:31 PM | Bikeman has recounted the rules as they have stood for centuries. When the guest"reaches
Actually Sprite was invented in 1961 - so we shall have to look to the swinging sixties for history on this.
All that reaching, or should it be 'retching' is making me feel sick - what the hell is Sprite anyway? (why didn't you at least order a c*cktail if you weren't paying for it? wink wink from a girl who 'knows')
All Hail to the Bikeman the font of all dating knowledge and rules! Private consultations on request.
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| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 4:06:28 PM | First off I think if she had an issue with this she should have said so right then, not waited .... also if 2 dollars bothers her that bad that she acts this way, do you really want to be around her?
I don't understand the concept of why dating is so darned hard.
I say forget about the whole thing. I promise not all women are crazy... not all men are crazy either.. Life is to short to worry about the small things in life... I say NEXT!! | |
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| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 4:39:11 PM | This joke reminds me of some of the folks here that can't see past their arses:
Emotional Extremes
The aspiring psychiatrists were attending their first class on emotional extremes. "Just to establish some parameters," said the professor to the student from Arkansas, "What is the opposite of joy?"
"Sadness," said the student.
"And the opposite of depression?" he asked of the young lady from Oklahoma.
"Elation," said she.
"And you sir," he said to the young man from Texas, "How about the opposite of woe?"
The Texan replied, "Sir, I believe that would be giddy-up."
;) | |
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| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 5:01:09 PM | in response to MSG313 Sweethang100? umm I think the gal did say something about she was used to guys paying her?
Below is copied from the original post.
I then have it explained to me that she is use to having guys pay for her and the guy should especially pay for himself. I didn't ask her out, she asked me out. I ate nothing. If I had water was I suppose to pay for that too?
Sweetang-No, I'm looking at it from a woman's standpoint
I don't see a lot of women agreeing with you here. I think it's your standpoint an yours alone.
Sweethang-I said that women bring more to the table 'once you're in a relationship', than JUST financial.
Read the original post sweethang, he's not even dating this gal and isn't even in a relationship. She's bring nothing to the table but herself.
sweethang-Now, the op is asking if HE should send her money, or blow her off. I think someone has FORGOTTEN that SHE DELETED HIM, and BLEW HIM OFF A LONG TIME AGO, and won't even accept his contacts, Duh! Did someone miss this part of the op's post?
She would have been eatting alone if he wouldn't have been kind enough to accept her invite. I'd say she's at a greater loss than he is. If he was smart he'd consider himself lucky and never look back. She's nothing more than a spunge
sweethang-Reality is...she's more than likely 'NOT' going to contact him again. SHE doesn't care about his certified check, and SHE'S NOT interested in what HE THINKS about what SHE THINKS about him. She already told HIM what she thought of HIM, and that is that SHE considers HIM to be CHEAP, because HE DIDN'T EVEN OFFER TO PAY FOR HIS OWN DRINK!!!
Yes but one thing for sure.She thought enough of him to contact him to invite him in the first place. I'd be willing to bet if he doesn't contact her that within a few weeks she will end up contacting him again in hopes he will kiss her butt.. DON'T DO -IT -OP. Find someone that wants you,not a free meal. Find someone that thinks more of you than the cost of a sprite. She will go through 100 relationships with this kind of attitude. With each guy thinking to himself "Gawd what was I thinking" | |
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| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 5:08:12 PM | (why didn't you at least order a c*cktail if you weren't paying for it? wink wink from a girl who 'knows')
It's because I'm not a big drinker. Someone in this very thread can verify that when I go out I'm a sipper. I think we stayed out til 2 AM and I had 1 beer the last time we went out. If I know I don't have to drive, I'll let lose and have a 2nd. | |
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| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 5:16:46 PM |
All Hail to the Bikeman the font of all dating knowledge and rules! Private consultations on request. I sometimes take requests.  heehee
I actually think there's something else going on here than just a few pieces of raw fish and a sugared soda. The OP has a little bit of a chip on his shoulder and it didn't take much for him to push the envelope here. The OP's chick probably had her friends give her bad advice like "honey, he just ain't into you".
It's sort of ridiculous to expect someone you invite out to pay for your meal. Especially when you know in advance the other person wasn't going to order any food. | |
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| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 5:28:26 PM | No you are not wrong. You made it clear you'd already eaten dinner earlier. I'd have been glad of the company, so I wouldn't have to go by myself, and would have badgered you to have more than just a soda AND paid, since it was my idea.
Option (1). You're lucky to be rid of her. Although (2) is funny.
And here's a beer ... :) 
Jules | |
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| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 5:29:01 PM | #1...and get over it...gheesh...you've spent an awful lot of time thinking and writing about this when you could have been doing something constructive.    | |
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| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 6:06:27 PM | then you know about the bell curve and standard deviations.
Many people on here teach, college level math, calculus derivatives integrals language art. hardy, TS Eliot, coffee spoons and whatever else.
But I am happy that you announced that fact about yourself. It seems important to you for some reason.
there are several opinions on here and they can fit along a continuum.
1. some people believe that it is the man's duty to pay for everything the woman wants.
2.some people believe that the man should pay for the entire meal.
3. some agree he should have paid for his soda.in this specific case. gone dutch
4. some people believe that there is no reason anyone should pay for anyone else's way in life.
5. some people say that he didn't have to pay anything as he was invited.
6. some people believe that the woman was a user and needed a wake up pill given to her.
1 & 6 are the extremes at the end. " he pays for it all: " he didn't have to pay for a thing".
the same thing could be constructed for the woman's point of view:
1. the woman never has to pay anything for anything .
2. the woman should pay for some things.
3 the woman should pay for most things.
4. in the case where the man and woman come together- it should be 50-50.
5. the woman has to pay for everything.
6 men who let woman pay for everything are ungentlemanly...
The specific number assigned to these things is not important so if you decide to say " hey 2 should be after 4 " or whatever, you are being just needlessly dull.
The middle of the roadis that the two people pay their own way through life is probably how 68% of the people see this. it could be as low as 50%.
I can't see how the majority of women on this site - who speak of equality and looking for an equal partner and such things - are of the type who believe that a man MUST pay her way through life.
MOst likely the huge percentage of people believe " they should go dutch and have agreed to this before hand. "
So most people would LIKE to have someone pay their way but these same people don't EXPECT it to happen. So I must believe, that in their heart of hearts, they will say that they don't expect the guy to pay- he doesn't have to and that his not paying does not make him ungentlemanly. That last one is not worth fighting about.
Then there are a few who insist on paying their own way through life and never ever expect a man to cover for them.
Then there are a few who insist that the man pays all the time .
the numbers could be 2-14-34-34 14-2 for the percentage of people who always pay their own way- all the way through the people who don't care and/or split it 50-50 or pay for what you eat- i'll pay for what I eat " sort of people. to the end where they believe that the guy always must pay.
The numbers are not important but this is a lesson on just about everything. The numbers of groups change, then specific percentages change but this is true about almost all things where many people have an opinion about something that has several options.
it could be summed up as
1 " some give a siht,,
2 some are ambivalent: seeing both sides while leaning towards one-
3. some dont give a siht. "
This isn't an opinion of mine. it is how things are.
Your comment about cancer victims: omg... you bring in the most horrific cases... of course people with cancer will have a completely vested interest in their care. Why do you bring in extreme examples to illustrate your point?
However , even in cancer cases, there are patients who are willing to do just about anything to live and there are people at the end who are resigned to their fate. And there are many people in between.
2.
You completely ignored your statements wher eyou said explicitly that a gentleman pays. You did find one in which you were less explicit. But the first quotes still stand. in your minds, if the guy pays for your meal, then he is a gentleman. If the guy doesn't pay then in your mind, he is not a gentleman.
YOu can't have it both ways although you do seem to be able to speak out of both sides of your mouth.
I really don't believe that she is a user. She is upset about something in her life and then casts a dark shadow over everyone else who says something disagreeable.
She accuses everyone of the very thing that she herself is doing.
But this is cyclical as the argument will come " you are doing it too!'
which begets, " well you started it!"
"unh unh"
"yeah. "
"uh huh.."
"unh unh"
okay.
This is something you WANT to happen. It would be great if it did.
How you react when you DONT GET WHAT YOU WANT is very telling.
How you describe yourself, the choice of words, the antagonism, the unnecessary comments that a person can't help but put in there.... you can see how they see the world and how they view their place in it.
Do they argue for inclusion or exclusion.
Do they argue against choice or for choice.
In the overall scheme of things- not that he didn't give her a choice to not pay for his pop. The choice I am talking about is overall, generally.
The choice for a man to not pay and still be considered a gentleman is no longer there.
There is no choice whatsoever: the guy is bound to pay otherwise he's not much of a man. That is what is being proffered here.
The woman in question had the choice of saying something then and there and didn't take it.
So both took themselves out of the game. She was allowed to voice her opinion yet didn't.
He never told her " you are not allowed to ask me for money even though i wouldn't be mad about it. "
he never refused her the option of saying anything at the time.
he didn't make her NOT SAY something
She didn't do it. That was her choice.
Are their arguments self serving?
I actually feel sorry for her. Whatever happened to her must have been something traumatic to have such a view of life. There are several people, men as well as women who are rather jaded in their outlook.
They are most likely nice enough people until something trips them up.
she is saying the same thing about me/you as i write this.
However, we are pointing out the moderate view where choices are still free. | |
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| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 6:26:22 PM | "in response to MSG313 Sweethang100? umm I think the gal did say something about she was used to guys paying her?
Below is copied from the original post."
I then have it explained to me that she is use to having guys pay for her and the guy should especially pay for himself. I didn't ask her out, she asked me out. I ate nothing. If I had water was I suppose to pay for that too?"
So? Women have been 'used' (not USING) to men paying for them for centuries. That's quite normal for 'a lot' of women. Does it mean that she doesn't appreciate when men do? NO! Does it mean that she's taking advantage of the guy? No! Does it mean she's a user? No!
Now, if you perceive her doing this just to get a free meal, then, yes...but, if she truly likes the guy and she wants to continue to see him...there is nothing wrong with him paying for her, and vice versa, her paying for him, if it's agreed upon upfront.
However, how some men see this is considerably different. Many are so angry that women accept a meal from them that they equate every woman that does as a USER. Ever offer to pay for your buddy's drink? It's the same thing, nothing more or less, UNLESS YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH WOMEN, IN GENERAL, of course, in which case, you really should get over your problems before dating someone new!
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"Sweetang-No, I'm looking at it from a woman's standpoint. I don't see a lot of women agreeing with you here. I think it's your standpoint an yours alone."
You are entitled to your thoughts, but I can tell you that I have been out with many women, and watched them interact with each other, while they laughed behind their date's backs.
I've seen this on countless ocassions by the same types of women here. In front of the guys they would say things like...ouu baby, I'd pay for your drink anytime. The guy ends up eventually eating out of their hands.
Then poof, all of a sudden, the guy is paying in the relationship, and she's talking bad about them behind their backs. They would say things like "HE WAS SO CHEAP WHEN I FIRST WENT OUT WITH HIM. I EVEN HAD TO PAY FOR MY OWN DRINK!"
Needless to say, I've heard the story time and time again and watched it over and over.
Then, when someone actually tells you guys, instead of sugar-coating the situation, you want to say, NO, NO, NO! Not all women are like that, hehe. Sureeeee; you keep believing that. Then, when you're married to some lady, tell me how she didn't let you pay your entire relationship, hehe. Talk about silly and ridiculous. Then, you can post another, "I want to know why the lady gets you in the divorce for every cent you own," hehe.
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"Sweethang-I said that women bring more to the table 'once you're in a relationship', than JUST financial."
Actually, I was the one that said that, and if you said it too, then we agree! :)
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"Read the original post sweethang, he's not even dating this gal and isn't even in a relationship. She's bring nothing to the table but herself."
Um...didn't she stay the night? I suspect she brought lots more joy to his house that evening, than him paying for a measely drink, which he didn't even do, hehe.
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"She would have been eatting alone if he wouldn't have been kind enough to accept her invite. I'd say she's at a greater loss than he is. If he was smart he'd consider himself lucky and never look back. She's nothing more than a spunge"
Do you really think she would have been eating alone? Fellas, get real. Ladies have it easy when finding someone to eat with them, if they want them to. You don't think it's that way for most attractive women, do you? If the lady has any sense of looks, or half a personna, she could have just about any man sitting there with her.
Um...she deleted him, recall? What makes you think she couldn't choose anyone to go out with? Trust me, she lost nothing, but respect for him. I think that would be a great idea; he should forget her and move on. However, he appears to be here wondering aloud, in a public forum. Yet, she's not here. She already forgot him, obviously!
Sponge? Um...she's the sponge, yet he apparantly had no thought about sleeping with the sponge and getting her to pay for his drink. Sorry, I see HIM as the sponge, not vice versa.
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"Yes but one thing for sure.She thought enough of him to contact him to invite him in the first place. I'd be willing to bet if he doesn't contact her that within a few weeks she will end up contacting him again in hopes he will kiss her butt.. DON'T DO -IT -OP. Find someone that wants you,not a free meal. Find someone that thinks more of you than the cost of a sprite. She will go through 100 relationships with this kind of attitude. With each guy thinking to himself "Gawd what was I thinking"
Yes, I'm sure she did think of him enough to contact him, at first. I'm equally sure she no longer thinks of him as a gentlemen and he will be one of those sad beings that she makes mention of to her girlfriends, in jest. Of course, those gals will no longer touch him either. ;) Women talk all the time to each other, gentlemen; just something to think about. I highly doubt she will EVER contact him again! She would have to be pretty hard up to do so, and since she deleted him from her myspace...well, op, I wouldn't hold my breath. hehe
Actually, she will simply meet another one that knows how to be a gentleman and doesn't have any anger issues re women. She will more than likely have a good laugh with him, concerning this guy. The difference is, she will respect the new one, because he will understand what it means to be friends, have a committed relationship with a real woman, head for a committed relationship with a real woman (as opposed to a blow up doll), and more than likely, he will know what kindness is toward another human being.
He won't worry about who pays, and will more than likely offer to pay for HIS drink, without her making mention of it. Therein lies the difference!
Now, naturally, I can go post for post, regarding your opinions vs mine, but honestly...I HAVE A LIFE, and after so many of these posts...it's obvious that you will keep your opinions, and I will keep mine. But, I will leave you with this thought:
If you think women will contact you back, after you essentially tell them that you have anger issues regarding women, you are grossly mistaken. She will think that you CAN'T look at a woman in the same way as you do one of your FRIENDS. She will justify it in her mind, by saying to herself that you would more than likely offer to pay for one of your buddies, but you won't offer to pay for her?
Women will eventually look down on you because of this. They will recognize, the same way this lady did, that you have severe anger issues with women, as a whole. I wonder how long you will be going without when word gets around, hehe.
No, she doesn't want your measly $2. In fact, she doesn't want anything to do with you, and that's why SHE DELETED YOU! ;) | |
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| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 6:43:20 PM | Women like her give the rest of us a bad name.Don`t bother with her and move on.
Send her her $2,ask her if she has paypal. | |
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| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 7:11:31 PM | I can only speak for myself here & I am of the mind that as a MAN....If I order anything, ANYWHERE at ANYTIME I am completely prepared to pay for it WHEN the bill comes. Regardless of who invited who.
If I'm hanging out with a gal & it is perfectly clear friends is as far as it will go ...its also perfectly clear she pays her own way.
However, if we have eyes for each other (so to speak) or I am priviliged to her sexualality........ I 'll get the tab no problem!!!! | |
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| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 7:38:29 PM | Sweetthang means dic tracy ...
although it is true that I don't have anger issues with women.
will you please stop with the "anger issues " sweeping generalizations made about any man who disagrees with the thinking that the guy pays for the meal.
There are many examples of men WHO DO pay for the meal and are severely violent towards women. and definitely do have anger issues in general let alone towards women.
Gusy who don't want to pay for the woman's meal or life in general MAY not have anger issues with anyone.
But it is your choice to make if you wish to continue down that road.
"Sweetang-No, I'm looking at it from a woman's standpoint. I don't see a lot of women agreeing with you here. I think it's your standpoint an yours alone."
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You are entitled to your thoughts, but I can tell you that I have been out with many women, and watched them interact with each other, while they laughed behind their date's backs.
I've seen this on countless ocassions by the same types of women here. In front of the guys they would say things like...ouu baby, I'd pay for your drink anytime. The guy ends up eventually eating out of their hands.
Then poof, all of a sudden, the guy is paying in the relationship, and she's talking bad about them behind their backs. They would say things like "HE WAS SO CHEAP WHEN I FIRST WENT OUT WITH HIM. I EVEN HAD TO PAY FOR MY OWN DRINK!"
Needless to say, I've heard the story time and time again and watched it over and over.
Then, when someone actually tells you guys, instead of sugar-coating the situation, you want to say, NO, NO, NO! Not all women are like that, hehe. Sureeeee; you keep believing that. Then, when you're married to some lady, tell me how she didn't let you pay your entire relationship, hehe. Talk about silly and ridiculous. Then, you can post another, "I want to know why the lady gets you in the divorce for every cent you own," hehe.
So you are saying that the women essentially TRAIN their men to do their bidding so at some point downstream, the guys actually end up paying for everything?
And that these same women, while still with their guy, actually make fun of the guy behind his back... when she is with a group of likeminded women. ?
is this true?
so just what percentage of women do you estimate being like this?
and when you say " the same types of women here" do you mean here as in here on POF?
I am really trying to get a grasp of what you are saying.
In all sincerity- what women are you talking about ?
Do you know women on POF?
or are these women just taken from your circle of friends and associates?
You chuckle at the naivete of a guy who says " not all women are like that!" so you are implying ( yes I know that this is my inference ) that either all or a great majority of women are like this. at least more than what guys can imagine.
did you just paint a vast majority of women as being a bunch of duplicitous conniving schemers and scammers who are actually ridiculing their men once out of earshot?
BEcause I can't believe that this is what you meant.
countless occasions? holy smokes... what is going on in your neck of the woods?
How often would this have happened?
what sort of people are you hanging around with ? apparently women who think like this. okay..
I really would like to know more about this ..
and really ST.. can you stop with the sweeping generalizations about how some guy MUST have a problem with women.... the guys are commenting directly to YOU. People are taking issue with you specifically and yes, you happen to be female.. This does not imply that they have a problem with all women.
They may or may not have a problem with women.
There are endless number of men AND women who have problems with the opposite sex. Some of these people have been through hell and back... much the worse for wear for the trip. ANd your continual pressing that button doesn't help matters.
Please stop as the perception- and it may be warranted- is that you are being dismissive . You get angry in response. Just please stop with the unneeded comments.
Women have been arguing with other women on this thread and other threads. They may or may not have a problem with womenin general yet what is clear is that they have a problem with the person who posted. She may have a problem but ...
same thing with guys.. guys who argue with other guys may or may not have a problem with guys.
just leave that sleeping dog be.
Sweetthang means dic tracy ...
although it is true that I don't have anger issues with women.
will you please stop with the "anger issues " sweeping generalizations made about any man who disagrees with the thinking that the guy pays for the meal.
There are many examples of men WHO DO pay for the meal and are severely violent towards women. and definitely do have anger issues in general let alone towards women.
Gusy who don't want to pay for the woman's meal or life in general MAY not have anger issues with anyone.
But it is your choice to make if you wish to continue down that road.
Dic Tracy is right in as far as it suits his life. That is his choice.
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| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 7:39:40 PM | And above, we see a man that does not have ANGER ISSUES with women. He knows the difference between being in a relationship, having a friend, and BEING a friend, as well as understanding what it means to be a man. The op did not know the difference, in my opinion.
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"So you are saying that the women essentially TRAIN their men to do their bidding so at some point downstream, the guys actually end up paying for everything?"
Yes, eventually the men end up paying in one way or another, but are they trained to do so? Was your father trained to pick up the tab, when you went to the restaurant? Was he a dog? No, he wasn't "trained", but he knew, automatically, because he was a part of a relationship and that's just the way it was. People do these things, because they care about each other, not because they're trained!
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"And that these same women, while still with their guy, actually make fun of the guy behind his back... when she is with a group of likeminded women. ?"
"is this true? "
Not while they're with the guy, usually, but many times, if the guy doesn't pay for the lady...YES, definitely! It happens all the time. I've seen it and heard it, thousands of times!
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so just what percentage of women do you estimate being like this?
and when you say " the same types of women here" do you mean here as in here on POF?
99% of the women do this, from what I've seen, personally. And, I know a massive amount of women. I would say I have interacted with close to 1000 women in the last year, if not more. And, that's just THIS YEAR! Yes, there are several women that have emailed me about this already. And guess where they're from, hehe. ;)
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"I am really trying to get a grasp of what you are saying.
In all sincerity- what women are you talking about ?
Do you know women on POF?
or are these women just taken from your circle of friends and associates?"
You chuckle at the naivete of a guy who says " not all women are like that!" so you are implying ( yes I know that this is my inference ) that either all or a great majority of women are like this. at least more than what guys can imagine."
Lots more than you could possibly imagine, fellas. You want to know...then, who better to find out, from than someone who isn't interested in sugar coating the reality? As you can probably guess, right now, I'm not making many 'female friends', because I have a humongous mouth, and I'm telling all there is to know. Now, just think about it...I'm one of THEM and yet, I'm telling YOU, what they say about you. What female do you know would do that? ;) I'm one of the ladies that's actually being STRAIGHT UP with you, and what do I get out of it? Let's see...do I get your interest? Nope. Do I get your approval? Nope. What do I get out of it? Let me tell you what I get out of it...absolutely nothing, except for knowledge that you guys have been given the absolute TRUTH (which is ammunition, if you know how to use it) if, of course, you can handle the truth?
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"did you just paint a vast majority of women as being a bunch of duplicitous conniving schemers and scammers who are actually ridiculing their men once out of earshot?"
Duh, shall I spell it out for you?
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"BEcause I can't believe that this is what you meant."
You never heard women joking about you guys? Come on...many of you have been in relationships before, haven't you? Ever hear the way the women talk to other women, and giggle, until you enter the room? Then....shhhh!
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"countless occasions? holy smokes... what is going on in your neck of the woods?
How often would this have happened?"
Numerous times, hundreds? Thousands? Millions? Women talk, fellas....LOTS!
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"what sort of people are you hanging around with ? apparently women who think like this. okay.."
Ok, how about this one...I just asked my neighbor (a female) the question the op asked and gave her a little background of the convo. She responded (and she is married), "I would never have dated the loser again...and as far as sleeping with him...NO WAY!" She continued on, "God, I would have told every female I could find within a 10 mile radius about him, so they didn't date the loser too!"
Does that give you any idea? Mind you, my next door neighbor and I are not close friends. We kind of say hi, as I'm mowing the lawn. Does that give you any idea? This is just a 'random' female. Ok?
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"I really would like to know more about this .. and really ST.. can you stop with the sweeping generalizations about how some guy MUST have a problem with women.... the guys are commenting directly to YOU. They may or may not have a problem with women."
No, they are commenting because they don't like the response. Sorry, but I'm NOT the one that dumped the guy! Obviously, other women think this way too, and what you hear from some, here? Well...don't take everything they say as LAW, as you will more than likely find out once in the court room, during the divorce, hehe.
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"There are endless number of men AND women who have problems with the opposite sex. Some of these people have been through hell and back... much the worse for wear for the trip. Please stop as the perception- and it may be warranted- is that you are being dismissive. You get angry in response. Just please stop with the unneeded comments."
Actually, I have no anger, nor malice, regarding what anyone has said, here. In fact, on numerous ocassions, I've done extensive research on female and male interactions. So, one's perceptions to me, are just that...perceptions. I understand that everyone has opinions and they are welcome to them. I am hardly dismissing anyone.
In fact, every one of your opinions are valid and valued.
However, I too, have opinions and perceptions, based on training, personal experience, research and basic knowledge.
Yes, you're right...there are an endless number of men AND women who have problems with the opposite sex. The problem, however, graduates when you take those problems into any relationship, because essentially, you repeat them.
So many are fearful of these things, that essentially, they destroy any chance they have of even getting the relationship off the ground. Instead of working through those problems, they self-destruct, as did the op (in my opinion). That's hardly a way to start off in a relationship, wouldn't you agree? | |
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| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 7:51:17 PM | | Can you take multiple answers. Number 1:Let it die because it sounds like you didn't have much in the way of communication with her. I am always up front on my expectations as far as whether things should be dutch or if the guy pays. You both should have talked about the particulars before you went out. As far as the sprite, obviously she's the one with money issues. I'd spring for a sprite for ya. Number 5: stop dating women YOU think are crazy. I don't think this needs an explanation. | |
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| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 8:21:50 PM | i mean really..
I would love to hear from the other women who agree with ST about this sort of thing.
YOu have to :
1. expect the man to pay for all your meals.
2. expect the man to pay for all your drinks.
3. have the guy pay for everything
4. train him to be this way if he wasn't willing in the beginning of the relationship
5. you make fun of the guy behind his back when you are with your friends.
You should have a decent income and not be impoverished in any way or living only marginally.
THIS is what a normal woman does?
I had no idea and am rather flummoxed by the very idea of this.
Possible reasons for the 5 things:
1 - well maybe she is entitled to this for some reason
2- well , maybe they have reached some sort of agreement on this one.
3. again, maybe she is entitled and / or there is an agreement.
4. sounds like a plan but a simpler one would have been to find someone who was more into giving you want you wanted. This sounds like breaking a horse.
5. this one just sounds ..... nasty..
The 5th one is quite disturbing actually.
I would like to read a post by a woman who will admit to doing this AND / or that she thinks is a normal or good thing to do.
About laughing behind his back to all her girlfriends :
Is this normal?
Is it common?
Is it a good thing? is the person who does such a thing ( laughs at the guy behind his back ) still a good person?
I really want to know.
HOw may women follow this routine? I know that the forum people ( forumites? --- ) are not an indication of the overall POF population. and perhaps is not a representation of people IRL. But this begs the question:
how many of these people are out there?
is there a name for the group of people like this?
I thought it was quite absurd but it could be commonplace.
Maybe the guys who whine /moan and complain about the women who don't respond have a valid point.
Maybe the men who complain about the women's high favorite number have a valid point.
AS if women are indeed just as ST has described, then they may indeed be correct about their assessment of women in general.
Posts like ST's alter men's perceptions of womens and contribute to the difficulties between the sexes. it creates a fog of uncertainty for the guy: is this woman going to be laughing at him - no matter what he does or if he doesn't pay for the entire shot?
But if she is correct and this is a true assessment, then the guys' paranoia is valid. She is doing exactly what he is concerned about.
So few women are posting anything negative about her assessment of the women she's talking about so not much can be said. out of 10 000 views, and 300 posts, there have been 3 or 4 women who have directly agreed with her.
they have a vested interest to agree with her.
There is a quiet if not silent group not interested in saying a thing.
they have a vested interest to keep quiet.
that is their choice. | |
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| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 8:32:17 PM | Or maybe no one is saying anything because maybe, if they do, they know they will screw up their chances of being with any guy? Personally, I don't care if I find one or not. ;) So, I say it like it really is!
3 or 4 women, and everytime they did, someone put them down. You see, how you fellas perceive it and how a woman perceives it are quite different.
For eons...women have been routinely taken care of by men. This is nothing new! The only thing that's new is that times have changed and have called for a 'REQUIREMENT' for women to work in order to make a better situation, financially, for the family unit.
That's the difference! If you don't believe me as to how it works, though...take a look at all the divorces and how most women end up going for alimony and child support. Need I give you MORE PROOF of reality?
Money hungry fools...or simply a NEED TO SURVIVE? It's not that they can't do it without you...but, it's easier to do it with you. ;)
Now, if you don't mind...I'm going to spend some time with my family, again. :) | |
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| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 8:38:09 PM | oh momarks, she's just so ridiculous that I wouldn't know where to begin. Really, it's been a fascinating look at the attitude of entitlement that I hear men complaining about. I thought they (men) were completely out to lunch with their assessments. ('course they always counter with "you don't date women"). I've never personally encountered a woman with this attitude. How many 1000's of women in my lifetime?
I have read them on the forums - the "dutch on a first date?" threads mostly. Lurking this thread has been an education to say the least. | |
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| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 8:39:10 PM | No Sweethang100,,I was not agreeing with you. I was quoting you. You need to go back and read my earlier post. Everything in box form is quoting you, excepting the top one where I quoted from the original post.
From what it looks like to me from reading all your (sweethang)posts. Looks like if us guys do not agree with everything your saying here then we must obviously have "anger management problems". What ever. I think your simply angry because hardly anyone agree's with what your saying. Some might agree with bits and pieces what your saying.But nobody agree's with "everything" your saying. What your not letting sink in is "this guy was not in a relationship with this gal. He was just getting to know her it sounds like to me. He already ate and told her this on the phone. He was simply being a nice guy and going with her so she didn't have to go alone. So he orders a sprite. BIG FLIPING DEAL :roll: . It's a sprite. Who gives a flip about a pop? An I say if she gets upset over a pop then fffffffffffffffffttttttttttttt drop her like a hot potato and if your worried about a pop sweethang you wouldn't have to worry about having many worth while men hanging around you very long.I certainly wouldn't. Only guys that was buying your company like some rich guys do sometimes would feel obligated in this situation.That's almost is like being a prostitute.
Oh an another thing Sweethang. I'm not mad at any women in this thread posting. Not even you. I just disagree with the way you view things. I'm jumping off this thread. You (sweethang)wore me out reading and also the lettering off your keyboard too.
You need to learn how to quote people properly too sweethang. Your type of quoting makes it look like I'm agreeing with you. I don't agree with anything you say in this thread. | |
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| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 8:41:14 PM | close to 200 views since my post of "wow".
not one woman has taken any issue with ST assessment of women in general.
edited in: margo came in to say something after I posted..
I appreciate your comments as I almost always do.
I will wait for more, if any are forthcoming.
MM
edited in part deux.
ST- that is part of the " they have a vested interest to keep quiet"
MM
Does the silence mean anything other than disinterest, self protection or agreement.
which one?
ST- the way you described her comments " and in the beginning her wouldn't pay for a thing" or whatever directly implies that he somehow learned the new behaviour that benefited the woman. So, people learn by direct or indirect teaching.
the woman rewards the good behaviour ( the ones she wants) and either
punishes the bad behaviour or gives it no attention whatsoever.
he is thus trained by her actions.
guys will settle for a lot of bullshit- tolerate stuff that apparently he shouldn't , and ignore things that shouldn't be ignored in order to have a quiet calm life. Women do this too, much to their regret.
it is training. you may not wish to call it that but it is what it is.
anyway, thank you for the revelations. most entertaining.
What else can you tell me about this? without sounding weird , do they do something that allows me to figure this out? Have you noticed anything in common - do they all wear oscar or obsession or something.
I have noticed women who are:
a. financially high maintenance . - I can handle some of this.
b. emotionally high maintenance. - i can handle that.
c. physically/sexually high maintenance ( applications accepted at the front office )
What exactly are these people? where do they fit. | |
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| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 9:19:14 PM | Momarks, Sweethang does NOT speak for me. She does not speak for a majority of the women I know, either. And yes, we talk about men--all the time--and how they treat us on dates and/or in relationships. I do have acquaintances and friends who fall right in line with the behavior she is talking about--that is, to behave one way regarding costs until the relationship is established, then to behave differently, and also to consider any man who doesn't always pay as cheap--but as I said, they are NOT in the majority. What they are, I think, is in a different century than most of us.
My silence on this or any thread is in no way meant to indicate agreement with ANYTHING anyone says, ever. Most often silence means one of these: I don't have time to post at the moment; I don't care to get dragged into an ongoing argument/discussion; I suspect saying something would be so fruitless as to constitute a waste of time; I don't wish to begin a back-and-forth dialogue (usually for one or more reasons already listed); I consider one or more of the posters, or perhaps their viewpoints, not worth responding to. Oh, and sometimes it means I don't give a flying...
As far as the OP's question, all those pages ago, my choice would be none of the above--just learn from the experience. And it sounds like he has.
--Ms. Flis | |
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| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 9:41:37 PM | I peeked in, in between. :)
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Oh, I'm sure you'll hear a few say nay...
Well, if you don't believe me, then just look at the courts. Explain why the courts are FULL of (mostly) women that are trying to get alimony and child support payments, from their significant other...even to the point of Canada creating a bill to make it possible for women to collect alimony from DATES. ;)
So much for not knowing what I'm talking about, eh?
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ST- that is part of the " they have a vested interest to keep quiet"
Yes, they do have a part, similar to the keep quiet aspect of males when they gather around and joke about which gal they can bed and how fast they can get the next feather in their cap. I'm sure you've been around many males who do this as well.
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"ST- the way you described her comments " and in the beginning her wouldn't pay for a thing" or whatever directly implies that he somehow learned the new behaviour that benefited the woman. So, people learn by direct or indirect teaching.
the woman rewards the good behaviour ( the ones she wants) and either
punishes the bad behaviour or gives it no attention whatsoever."
Yes, but don't we all do this, in some way or another. Think about the way your mothers taught you. Did they teach you that it's always a good thing that you respect the woman and you treat her kindly? Did they inform you that when you go out, you pay for the date, as a gentleman? Your own mothers teach you these things, from day one, at least, if they're a "GOOD WOMAN", right? See what I mean? It's passed down from generation to generation, from parent to child.
The fact is...even kids are brought up like this, from childhood on. Why? Because most of the times, mothers raise the kids, not the fathers. Not all the time, but most times.
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"he is thus trained by her actions.
guys will settle for a lot of bullshit- tolerate stuff that apparently he shouldn't , and ignore things that shouldn't be ignored in order to have a quiet calm life. Women do this too, much to their regret."
In actuality, you fellas are trained long before an outside woman gets ahold of you. Your own mothers, as noted above, teach you it. It's just an accepted practice that has allowed the population to grow, continue, and thrive, for centuries.
Way back when, women actually went on the hunt (caveman days) in order to help put food on the table. They would pick berries, provide for the children, and point things out to the head of the clans. The males would also get assistance for the actual hunts from everyone in the tribe or clans (dependent on the era), but mostly from other males, since they were considered the stronger of the groups. Thus, women contributed, but not so much with the actual killing of the food.
Now a days, you guys don't kill the food, so to speak, but without your assistance, many women would not be able to provide for their families, properly. So, essentially, you become the strength of the family, so to speak. That's not to say that women CAN'T provide...but, as I said, previously...many do look for your assistance in doing so, especially since paychecks are not equal, but 15 - 18% less. And, her paycheck is usually only less because she is a woman, for no other reason.
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"it is training. you may not wish to call it that but it is what it is."
Then, your own mothers and every woman, is guilty of training you fellas to be gentlemen! By the way, fathers also teach their male sons to take care of their families and any woman they date.
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"anyway, thank you for the revelations. most entertaining."
Your welcome!
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"What else can you tell me about this? without sounding weird , do they do something that allows me to figure this out? Have you noticed anything in common - do they all wear oscar or obsession or something."
" have noticed women who are:
a. financially high maintenance . - I can handle some of this.
b. emotionally high maintenance. - i can handle that.
c. physically/sexually high maintenance ( applications accepted at the front office )
What exactly are these people? where do they fit."
Well, I tell you what...they can be all three, or none of the three! They can be financially high maintenance, emotionally high maintenance, and physically/sexually high maintenance. Regardless, they look at you, the male, as something good, not something bad. But, are they seeing you as more than JUST the bedroom partner? You better believe it! And if you delude yourself into believing that ANY WOMAN wants you JUST to be her partner in bed...you better ask them straight up front, because once you do...YOU WILL GET ONE HELL OF AN EDUCATION!
If you want to see how many women really think this way...just tell her these words and stick to them: "I want you to know that I will never pay for anything, but myself, in our relationship, no matter how you feel about it!" I will never cover your anything, not your bills, not your food, not your meals." Do it for a month. Test drive it, and see for yourself! Let's see how many women will go out with you, and stay with you, if you tell them that upfront. ;) I suspect you won't make it past the time when she realizes...she cannot change your thoughts about this, because some will actually stay with you, thinking they will be able to change your minds, hehe. ;)
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| Am I wrong, you make the call...
Posted: 6/11/2008 9:49:42 PM |
Well, if you don't believe me, then just look at the courts. Explain why the courts are FULL of (mostly) women that are trying to get alimony and child support payments, from their significant other...even to the point of Canada creating a bill to make it possible for women to collect alimony from DATES. ;)
That's New Jersey. sheesh, I'm getting sucked into this madness.
So much for not knowing what I'm talking about, eh?
You were saying?
Who people are on the way into a relationship is not who people often are on the way out. Some, not all, but some are out to get what they can at the end of a relationship. I should think, given how laws are biased in the lower income earner's favour (in Canada and in many states) that a higher income earner would be very, very cautious about getting involved with someone who did not bring an equitable attitude at the start of a relationship. But sheesh, I'm getting confused about what point you are arguing. lol I'm quittin while I'm behind. *grins* | |
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