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Posted: 6/1/2008 8:13:14 PM | I think sometimes when one becomes a couple, certain aspects about their person do in fact change. Hopefully for the better! lol
But one must never lose sight of who they are. As far as changing someone's personality? Why would anyone want to do that? You would lose the person you fell in love with! | |
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Posted: 6/1/2008 8:32:22 PM | The best piece of advice I ever got on the subject was from a former boss. She had been married at that point for about 20 years and said that her future father-in-law had once told her before she got married to make a list of the 5 things that bugged her the most about her potential mate. He then said, "if you don't think you can live with at least three of them, forget it". He might eventually change that behavior...or not.  | |
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Posted: 6/1/2008 9:27:18 PM | | Without exception every woman I ever dated after a short period of time wanted to change me. I can not recall ever wanting to change a woman I was dating because I liked them the way they were when I met them. If I had not liked them the way they were I would not have asked them to go out in the first place! They all changed anyway once they were no longer looking to attract a new man but had settled into the relationship. | |
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Posted: 6/2/2008 3:22:19 AM | How many Knights in Shining Armour does it take to change a fair damsel's flat tire????? 
If anyone is interested I know of a 12 step group that specializes in
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,coming to believe that
we are 'powerless' over others.
But wanting to 'control' or 'change' someone is different from
simply knowing what you can or cannot cope with in a close personal relationship and communicating that to a prospective mate via honest feedback | |
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Posted: 6/2/2008 4:49:10 AM | So you feel you're a happy single and you meet another happy single and the first thing you want to do is change them from being single into being a couple.
Then you do what ever you can to change them until you do become a couple and when you see the other has a frown and you try to change that into a smile and it works so you keep trying.
Then you notice that others recognize you are with a happy person and they gravitate towards this happy person and you get jealous that this person you were making smile is now making others smile. So you decide to change them so you won't be jealous and succede ant making them stop making people happy and you're with an emotional dud that wants to be happy. The dud looks at happy people and wishes to have that but knows it will make you unhappier if they try to attain that and the unhappy person ends up dominating the relationship.
So if you don't want to change anyone, just give up on having a relationship and profess how happy you are without a relationship. | |
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Posted: 6/2/2008 3:58:01 PM | Seriously, OP ... do you really think that this is a 'gender specific' issue ?? My experience has been that members of both sexes equally will have those that will try to change someone that they're becoming close to -- to make them more pleasing to them, I assume. And both sexes equally will see this as a very senseless and foolish thing to do. I don't see how the genders differ with respect to this topic.
cdn guy | |
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Posted: 6/2/2008 6:47:14 PM | cdn, absolutely not a gender issue.
I have seen it on both sides. You just have to look around, and it is pretty obvious. Of course, sometimes you don't recognize it as controlling, which is exactly what it is.
I believe if someone is trying to change another person, they actually have low self esteem and by the other person changing, they have control over them. JMO | |
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Posted: 6/2/2008 7:03:37 PM | Msg 16....Gary, that was very insightful and brave. We all need to do a little "house cleaning" from time to time. Good for you!
Chocolate...thanks for this thread. I only read a few negative ones...most comments have been thought out.
Breath...I used to be like your friend when I was younger..except for the quick turn over! I didn't even realize it until a girl friend pointed out to me I was starting to dress like the guy I had started seeing. Seeing a little hippie chick start wearing jock clothes...well...I kissed my girl friend and started my own reality check list!
I also agree with what several have said about making our own changes...not becoming stagnant (like some areas of a pond ...couldn't resist!) AND when you enter into a relationship changes will happen as you blend both of your lives together.
My last relationship was with a "free spirit". I wanted him to remain such. He had the freedom to come and go. All I needed was for him to commit to this open relationship I offered. He thought that meant settling down. I just couldn't get him to understand no change was necessary other than professing his love.
I finally let it go. He came back two years later and complained that I had changed. He didn't change me...time and I did that. He stagnated.
No Bueno. | |
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Posted: 6/2/2008 7:03:48 PM | I'm not entirely sure that it is always a 'control' thing, Ms. AW (re: msg. 32) -- although, I will agree that it can be sometimes. Sometimes, people try to change others for fairly inocuous reasons like trying to change someone's interests to match their own a little better. And this is rooted in simply wishing to spend time doing shared pursuits with someone that you're getting close to. I don't think it's really meant as any form of control. Many years ago, when I laid up my career day job to spend my time building a music career, the woman I was dating at the time (and becoming rather close to) said to me: "Surely you want to do more with your life than just play music." -- needless to say, the relationship ended that day (lol). But I don't think her wish to see me do something other than play music was really about control, but more about me being more like someone she could be proud of (in her own view of importances). I think it was more about her than controlling me.
But nevertheless, it's never a good idea to try to change someone. Because eventually, the person that has been changed (either consciously, willingly or unwillingly) will wake up one morning and realize that they don't like the person that they have become. And usually, that will be the end of the relationship.
cdn guy | |
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Posted: 6/2/2008 8:37:08 PM | As far as interests, I see nothing wrong with changing to please your partner, such as learning to go fishing, just to be together. Now you men don't need to go to a knitting class just because some woman wants you to. 
I believe there is a big difference in changing interests and changing a person, by taking away their individuality.
We have a 41 year old woman at work, been married 15 years or more, and she is always saying her husband tells her how long she can sleep (she works the graveyard shift) and he will wake her when her time is up, regardless of whether she is still tired! To me, that isn't even changing someone, it is controling their actions. The weird part is she thinks that is normal. | |
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Posted: 6/2/2008 11:51:59 PM | Yes ... posts 16, 27, 25
Very insightful. This topic really fits with a book that I'm now reading, "Dance of Anger." It's a book that has been in print for ages & touches on how communicating effectively is so essential to healthy relationships. Silent brooding or nagging about the things that are apparently bothering us are common communication mistakes that result from not understanding clearly the problem issue. We all probably have to change somewhat when we enter into close personal relationships. It's impossible to completely know your mate & it is inevitable that we will have to either make minor adjustments or just learn when and how to adapt to what should be the joy of being with your unique mate.
It seems like the changing for a partner was only something that we did when we were young and insecure or were not quite sure of who we were. As a 45+ woman, there a plenty of things that I'd love to learn or to experience. I'd imagine it might be the same with men. And there are probably plenty of things that I know by now are just not for me -- and I won't change. Why would I expect anyone else to change for me? I don't want to be with a chameleon. I want to be with a real, genuine person who will not resent me because he believes he had to change to suit my tastes. | |
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Posted: 6/3/2008 8:24:30 AM | Truthfully, I believe this 'you can't change people' is a bunch of psycho-babble.
Of course you can change people or there would be no psychiatrists, psychologists, social workers, marketing, politicians or other professions that depend on changing people.
Here's an easy experiment you can all do to prove how you can change people. If you can find someone that really, really likes you, have them come over to visit and make them some coffee, tea, whatever and have them sit at your dining table. While they are enjoying a perfectly comfortable conversation with you, innocently drop a spoon on the floor and get on your knees. While under the table grab the hammer you hid there and slam it down on their big toe and start screaming about what a fool they are and with a wild look in your eye chase them out of your house.
There you have it, you've changed them forever....
On the other hand, you could be nice to people that you don't like and watch how that changes them too.
My GF tries to changes me all the time. I can feel a bit down about something and she makes me laugh. What's wrong with that? | |
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Posted: 6/3/2008 2:02:37 PM | Mack, I suppose that is change. Or maybe it is more like the kind of emotional support you’d want in a relationship.
However, there are times when I am sad about a real issue & others are uncomfortable with those negative emotions. If your girlfriend never lets you express fear, anger, frustration – because she is uncomfortable with those emotions – I don’t believe that making you laugh is always such a healthy thing to do.
Years ago, I was a golf widow. When my husband had his stretches of days-off (up to 5 in a row), he’d be golfing every day. Some days, he’d go around 18 holes twice. I was actually the dope who bought him the golf membership so, I suppose, I am the person who inadvertently changed him.
I don’t think that’s the kind of change that is problematic. Changes like telling a woman that she should or must wear her hair long or stop/ start wearing make-up, making a man toss out all of his favourite Hawaiian shirts, forcing your mate to listen to only your preferred music while you ridicule his or her taste are all changes that suggest a bad match or a control freak. | |
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Posted: 6/3/2008 3:34:29 PM | Hey I have no problem with a woman changing me any time she feels the need to do so.
Wait a minute! I haven't worn diapers in a long time!
Now my Hawaiian shirt, hippie comic, WW II weapon, computes in need of repair, or obsolete tool collections, well that's another story. Maybe right after she pries off my cold, dead fingers!
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Posted: 6/3/2008 4:52:54 PM | Thanks for all the comments, both negative and positive.
I was thinking more along the lines of people (and I should not have been gender specific, because this is gender-neutral), trying to change the ESSENCE of who someone is....not changing as in, "well, I have never been an outdoorsy type of person, but I think I'll take up fishing for my significant other..."
One of the posters, I believe it was my friend, Ageless Wonder, who talked about a man who woke his wife up at the same time all the time, whether or not she wanted that....those are the kind of people I'm talking about....and yes, I DO believe that is "controlling" behavior. Or, as another poster said, someone who tries to change another person's political views, and gets angry because the individual won't change (I could REALLY relate to that, because that has been an ongoing problem in my relationships with men......I respect their political beliefs, but they don't respect mine).
We shouldn't stay "stagnant", but we shouldn't be forced to change the essence of who we are, either.....if our yin and yang are in balance, it's crazy to allow someone to throw them out of balance..... | |
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Posted: 6/3/2008 5:41:28 PM | That being said, good luck to any man, who expects me to roll over and fetch his slippers.
I would be willing to chew them up...
Most men that I've either communicated with or met expected me to drop everything in my life, to meld into their lifestyle, move to their city, leave my friends and family and fit into their schedule
That's not entirely their fault, though. They are thinking "back in the day"...when most young women's #1 priority was to get married and have a home and family of her own, and they were willing to "drop everything" to get that marriage. That's where a lot of us started out, even though,at the time, there was some lip service being paid to the idea of women being just as entitled to go to college and have careers. To all practical purposes, marriage and motherhood was THE career.
So now 30 or 40 yrs later, men just assume that having a man in our life is STILL something we are willing to make huge sacrifices for. And when we aren't, then we are some kind of feminazi, who the hell ever heard of a woman's friends, family, interests and goals being more important than getting herself a man!
But I think that what's being discussed here is trying to change someone's character, core values, or philosophy of life. Which to me seems utterly stupid. Why bother. If the person YOU are, conflicts with the person your partner/prospective partner is, you either live with it or move on.
Cindy O | |
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Posted: 6/3/2008 5:47:14 PM |
So you feel you're a happy single and you meet another happy single and the first thing you want to do is change them from being single into being a couple.
No, but I might suggest that we 2 happy singles could walk beside each other so as to more deeply enjoy this journey called Life.
Cindy O | |
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Posted: 6/3/2008 5:57:34 PM | | I find it funny how people want you to change into someone they don't know. | |
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Posted: 6/3/2008 9:58:06 PM | | I think it's weird that people willingly change the essence of their own being just to suit who they think I might like -- and then, when we are involved in our relationship, begins the process of cutting down the essence of my being as the curtain is raised, revealing the essence of this complete stranger. Do these quick change artists mistakingly believe that they can live with my 'flaws' only to discover that they have to do some re-working of me? | |
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Posted: 6/4/2008 8:01:15 AM | well first off chocolate your making a generalization. granted you can bet on that one and win but a generalization it remains. that said most guys i have seen try and change there gal are controlling. they have a deep seated fear (from my experience) that the qualities that attracted them will attract other guys as well (logical assumption i suppose). many also suffer from self esteem issues that demand being in charge of something. its a sad commentary really. your also right that most of us guys dont want to be changed either. it takes a while to get comfortable in your own skin and to let someone upset that particular applecart makes no sense to me.  | |
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Posted: 6/4/2008 10:32:18 AM | I hate change, so I never want to change, LOL, LOL
I don't even like to change my toothpaste brand!
Since life is ALL about change, it's a challenge, LOL, LOL
Rossal | |
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Posted: 6/4/2008 10:36:08 AM | MacKevinized: Psychologists, psychiatrists, etc., etc....DO NOT change people........the clients make changes themselves.......NO ONE can change us, but professionals can give us the insight and tools for us to make the changes we wish to.
(Undergrad in Psych....and a lifetime of common sense!) | |
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Posted: 6/4/2008 3:26:02 PM |
MacKevinized: Psychologists, psychiatrists, etc., etc....DO NOT change people........the clients make changes themselves.......NO ONE can change us, but professionals can give us the insight and tools for us to make the changes we wish to.
(Undergrad in Psych....and a lifetime of common sense!)
OK, so you weren't changed by abuse. You were naturally born to take it eh? And a lifetime of common sense made you stay there, right?
All those people at Jonestown wanted the kool-aid after all. | |
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Posted: 6/4/2008 3:34:46 PM | | "Accept me as I am"....how perfect would that be? | |
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Posted: 6/4/2008 3:38:20 PM | I guess men and women just love a project.
I personally don't want anyone who I have to change into something else. | |
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