| CHANGING PEOPLE
Posted: 6/4/2008 5:24:12 PM | Probably...your body and personality change every 7 years... | |
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Posted: 6/4/2008 11:00:59 PM | | Chocolate, when you mention political beliefs, it leaves me wondering what you mean by change. Sometimes it's just interesting when I can talk in a fairly safe environment about my political views or understanding of the world -- for example, how we deal with global undernourishment and that sort of thing. It's a huge topic that affects people in the first world all the way to third world countries. I'll talk to friends about this kind of thing & maybe adjust my way of thinking -- or others adjust -- or we all walk away (hopefully still wanting to know more). I don't see a problem with learning from a companion and having an opportunity to talk about these things. I had the loneliest marriage because I could talk these things over in university but had nobody to talk to at home. I was not trying to change the 'essence' of my spouse. I wanted his full companionship. Talking politics (even debating) is not a demand for change. | |
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Posted: 6/4/2008 11:33:44 PM | Daily Quotation
You don't have to worry about what their vibration is if your vibration is one of connection. Because if your vibration is one of connection -- you're going to dominate the vibration. This is the way you learn your relationships. The thing that most people do not understand, is that you get to control the way you feel, because you get to choose the thoughts you think. Most people think that they only have the option of responding to the circumstances that surround them. And that's what makes them attempt the impossible, which is to control the circumstances around them, which only feeds their feeling of frustration and vulnerability, because it doesn't take very much life experience to discover you can't control all of those circumstances. But you can control your vibration. And when you control your vibration, you've controlled everything that has anything to do with you. --- Abraham (Law of Attraction) | |
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Posted: 6/5/2008 7:24:24 AM | I like what you say, amo-vida.....
I work in the political arena....I work for a specific political party, have been a member of that party since I was five years old....(it's a family thing), and although I don't agree 100% with all the positions the party takes, as no one would, it's the environment where I feel safe in. And I am loyal to the party....after all, they pay my salary! I have encountered men of the opposite political party who say they would love to date me, but I have to denounce my political beliefs 100% and go with theirs, because they are "better".....that's what I mean by change........people of all races died so that African-Americans could have the right to vote, and I take that VERY SERIOUSLY.....and I HATE it when a man tells me that "it doesn't matter because that was in the past...." | |
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Posted: 6/5/2008 7:49:01 AM | People of all races have died so that they could vote, and people are still to this day dying so that they can hope to have the right to vote. Black people in the West have died more recently, but one should be aware that many white americans died in the Civil War so that blacks could eventually have the right to vote. If the statistics were known, probably more whites have died for black civil rights than have blacks.
All of these ethnic/racial/politico-social barrier issues are frought with myths which are largely not true, or distorted for the current political convenience, and are the main source of future violence between people. In the US, the right to vote was first won with revolution for white men, then through war for black men, then through demonstration for women, then through bloodshed for blacks again in the South. In the broad view, however, it is another struggle by people for political and social freedom which is far from over. | |
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| CHANGING PEOPLE
Posted: 6/5/2008 10:50:46 AM | | Sometimes people want someone to change to improve there mate. Sometimes its for the betterment of both. | |
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Posted: 6/5/2008 10:52:32 AM |
.people of all races died so that African-Americans could have the right to vote, and I take that VERY SERIOUSLY
I am not sure why you seem steamed rearguard.
chocolate did say 'all races' died ... and she refers to the right to vote.
Maybe she is not wanting to talk numbers. Maybe she is trying to motivate black people to vote since it was such a struggle to win that right.
Really, kind of sick that anyone ever thought that a black person or a woman was not a human being or didn't have a brain capable of making a decision like selecting a politician. But they probably were the major influences in raising, nurturing & educating that politician. | |
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Posted: 6/5/2008 11:08:52 AM | | I am not steamed. I just observe that the whole issue is not a Black issue. Its a people issue, and I think that it is a very important people issue. | |
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Posted: 6/5/2008 1:03:27 PM | ...I understand what you are saying, rearguard2, that it's a "people" issue.....but it becomes a BLACK/WHITE issue for me when someone tries to change me to fit the way they think a black woman should think.....I think it's a bit presumptious...as much as I would like this to become a colorblind world, we're not there yet, and to pretend otherwise is folly.....
And yes, I did say that PEOPLE OF ALL RACES died for the right for African-Americans to vote.......I am not unaware of the Union Soldiers who fought in the Civil War......did you ever hear of the Buffalo Soldiers???????? | |
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Posted: 6/5/2008 1:04:23 PM | ..and thanks, amo-vida...you "get" what I am trying to articulate..... | |
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Posted: 6/5/2008 6:05:34 PM | Wow...I was coming back in to tell Chocolate my last post was not the thing she was referring too. Then I find this whole new slant on things!!!!
Well, I'm still going to say to you, Chocolate, that I do understand what you mean.
Poster "Parrrothead 13" said pretty much what I wanted to say after thinking about this one last night. The "Controllers" I have known in my life were extremely insecure (don't tell them, though!) and also had low self-esteem (once, again...hush!)
As to Poster "Scottoliver", the only excuse I could give one for "improving" their "mate" is if that person was mentally incapable...like on a life support system or mentally ill. If you don't like something about them....tell them. If they like that something about them...leave. Or better yet...just leave.
My personal fav is my physical appearance. Hey, I'm short, I'm round...was when we met...am after you leave.
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Posted: 6/6/2008 4:46:18 AM | I changed my opinion...
Yes...it is possible...and yes...can be positive...just depends on the kind of influence you use...and depends on the person's personality...you want to change...
We can change person's attitude ...behavior...manners...feelings and beliefs... | |
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Posted: 6/6/2008 6:33:25 AM | | ^^^ I don't believe we can "change" the person's attitude... behavior... manners... feelings and beliefs... BUT we can influence them by our actions and sharing our thoughts with them. The final act of them changing comes from them, not us. JMO | |
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Posted: 6/6/2008 7:41:33 AM | OP: Because those "men" are really synthetic facsimiles. You came close to describing the possible problem: I think it's a certain kind of man who "pretends" that you are for him. Until he realizes he lied to himself and, instead of They delude themselves of coming clean with himself and you, he tries to fit you into the image he conjured up in the first place.
Yet, again..."real" men don't do that. | |
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Posted: 6/6/2008 7:54:43 AM | Indeed, I am familiar with the history of black soldiers in the US Military, and its not an exemplary story in any way.
Personally, I don't believe that people in general can be significantly changed by others in the usual course of life. By the time one gets to this age, the methods, thoughts and approaches one has developed over life are pretty solidly ingrained, and only rather dramatic influences will cause them to change, an then only temporarily. They say that children don't listen, but my experience is that its adults that don't listen. Children listen, evaluate and learn, and adopt according to their experience. Adults, however, tend to do the same thing over and over, and rarely take advice.
As to how a black woman should think, anybody who believes that black people should or do think any differently from any other color of skinned person should think is, in my view, lacking any knowledge of or understanding of the nature of the human being. We all think in ways that we learned at a very early age from those around us at the time and in the place we grew up. That has absolutely nothing to do with color, is not related to genetics, and is largely based on social norms and practices that are of centuries and millennial past origin.
Politicians, on the other hand, continuously strive to profit from tribal tendencies that are manifest in human behavior by first emphasizing trivial differences in people, such as color, language, ethnic origin, physical stature, religion, eating habits, living habits, education and a host of other things so that they can gain power of various groups. As a child, I was forced to identify myself according to the religion of myself and my family for all kinds of administrative purposes, even although I had concluded that religion was largely based on historical myths of dubious factual authenticity. This was solely to enable governments to discriminate against various groups in society. Today, that practice is illegal here, and frankly, things are much better for it.
I support the struggle for equal rights for all people, but I am always sensitive to basing such struggle on the specific characteristics of individuals or groups. | |
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Posted: 6/6/2008 8:06:58 AM |
BUT we can influence them by our actions and sharing our thoughts with them. The final act of them changing comes from them, not us. JMO
If you've influenced them to change, then you have proven you can make them change.
The simple act of leaving a relationship forces change on them. They go from being in a relationship to not being in a relationship.
Pavlov proved you can induce changes and many psychological theories and methods have been formulated since then to make people change.
I believe the issue is being changed into something you don't want to be changed into and that, I can agree is not always a good thing. | |
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Posted: 6/6/2008 8:31:03 AM | Just few things...
-to be more romantic...generous...less impatient and rarely feel anger... | |
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Posted: 6/6/2008 9:55:39 AM | Many years ago, I met a thoroughly ravishing woman, and became quite ‘taken’ with her – the only time I’ve ever crossed a crowded room, plopped myself at a table with a total stranger and said: “Hi, my name’s such-and-such. What’s yours?” It didn’t take long for us to start dating and eventually move in together. The trouble was, she was pretty jaded about the world in general – and in defense of her, she had good reasons to be – and me, well ... I’m an optimist and idealist – always have been. I knew how she was quite soon, as she did about me. We talked about it and proceeded ahead with our relationship, just the same. I suppose we both hoped that my optimism would wear off on her and a feeling of happiness in herself and the world around her would be added to all her other good qualities – and she had many.
We stayed together, all told, about 5 years, and as most couples do, there was a natural tendency to start to move closer to each other with respect to our personalities. But her strength of character was much greater than mine. She was determined to be who she was, and in hindsight, it was her indomitable strength of character that I found most appealing about her. Me, I can be a bit of a chameleon at times, changing bits and pieces of myself to fit the situations that I find myself in. I suppose it’s a bit of my self-defense mechanisms to avoid one-on-one open confrontations, which I so despise. But the affects of all this was that it wasn’t her who changed, but me. Within a few years, I realized that I was becoming a rather cranky person (in my own eyes) and was really beginning to dislike what I was becoming. I was beginning to find fault before decency in my daily encounters with the world and this was really starting to bother me. My own close friends noticed it first, but it didn’t take long for me to see it too. We talked about it, she and I, and within a few years from us meeting, we agreed to dissolve the relationship. We remained friends afterwards, very good friends for a while, but eventually, even that faded so there is virtually no contact between us now – hasn’t been for a long time.
It wasn’t her that tried to change me, just the natural progression of personalities that spend a great deal of time in intimate situations. But I did learn from that experience that it really is never a good idea to be in a relationship where one or both people change in ways that are beyond what they would normally choose to do themselves – no matter how good, incidental or honourable the intentions.
My opinion from my own experience, of course ...
cdn guy | |
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Posted: 6/6/2008 12:08:28 PM | No one under any situation should try and change someone.You can enlighten them to what may be a harmful life style.IE Using certain toxins that are not meant for human cunsumption.People are free .Never become a controling person.Its not a good thing | |
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Posted: 6/6/2008 2:54:42 PM | | canadian guy the mutual adaptation you describe is a natural process that has no relation to what happens when one person in a relationship decides they have the right to decide for the other what is best for them. If I decide that another person needs to change, I am putting myself above them. Most people resent that, and quite rightly so. A person in need may accept it for a time, but when their need is met, their resentment of our assumed superiority will soon emerge. It seems to me the proper attitude to take in a relationship is not superiority but its opposite, humility. | |
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Posted: 6/6/2008 3:24:23 PM | The minute the word "change" is brought up, it's natural for people to want to say "no!"
I just found out that my old boss is leaving and I'm getting a new boss and of course, I HATE the change. I wanted things to stay the way they were...........
Whenever I think I want to tell someone else that they should change, I make myself think about how good I am at changing myself..... If I can't change ME, then how can I change someone else or not understand how difficult it would be for someone to change? I don't like some things about myself but it's hard to change even me....I'm not going to try to change someone else!
However, I actually have found most men very agreeable to reasonable changes.....
They have certain core things which can't be changed (they will not give me the remote for the TV, for example) but I think men are more flexible then women are in compromising about little things. | |
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Posted: 6/7/2008 6:18:43 AM | | I was thinking about change last night on my drive home from work. When I was in my twenties my favorite show was All In The Family and beening youthful I thought Archie a terrible old stickinthemud with old fashioned ideals. I am Archie's age now and I understand him better. Archie feared change, change of his world and change that this required of himself. Change left him feeling uncomfortable and isolated from all that he cherished about himself and his nation. The change came home to him as his daughter and son inlaw confronted him daily and he hardly had time to reflect and breathe. It was hard enough to see his world changing, harder to make himself change. How in good heavens can we hope to change one another? The best we can do is to educate each other while letting nature and time take its course. If that doesnt work then lets just be as gentle and loving as possible and remember that none of us is infalliable. Meanwhile do unto others as we would have them do unto us seems the best policy to me. So Archie, wherever you are, change is the one constant in this world and you and I will just have to get use to it. Damn...that reminds me....if you aint changing you aint growing...but enough... | |
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Posted: 6/8/2008 9:33:08 AM | | Perfectly said, Wayward Seeker!!! | |
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Posted: 6/8/2008 9:55:25 AM |
Why do you think men want to change women more than women want to change men?? There are plenty of control freaks in both sexes!! To think that men want to do this any more than women is ridiculous!!
I didn't perceive the OP's post that way at all. How can she speak to the male experience when she's a female? Doh!
On one hand, I agree we shouldn't try to change our partner. On the other hand, I also think it's important for people to be willing to share in their partner's interests and strive toward their own personal growth.
I read a quote once...it went something like, "Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you'll understand what little chance you have of changing others." | |
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