| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 6/19/2008 10:55:24 AM | Serendipitee so anyone who disagrees with you is a narcissist and or psychopath? Thats a little trite isn't it.
I am a firm believer in personal responsibility. Accept the responsibility that your actions cause. I am not accepting responsibility for some thing i didnt do. I dont see what is so hard to understand there.
How far do you want to take this appologizing for crap no one is alive to have done? Do we make blacks apologize for enslaving the jews? plus they enslaved othere people not just jews. How far do we go back and hold people responsible for actions they never committed? If your only going to single out black slavery thats awfully hippocritical (sp) what about the white slave trade going on in the middle east or rampant latin slave trade going on now where people are getting paid pennies to pay off the debt of coming to this country working in sweatshops, or just killed because its cheeper then trying to keep a leash on them.
There is too much evil in this world TODAY that we all do bear some responsibility for, to worry about things that happened beyound our time outside of our control. Yet you want to make a token apology and make yourself feel better rather then do anything to combat the real injustices that are going on right now. That truly seems selfish to me. | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 6/25/2008 11:17:23 AM | I don't know if the freed slaves were given $1500 I never heard anything like that - and indeed the "40 acres and a mule" slogan that was bandied around wasn't lived up to for most. The colonization of Liberia started way before the war, and I believe Abraham Lincoln had wanted to move all the freed slaves there, and although many went, certainly not a huge percentage of the population. Also, the emancipation of slaves was originally for those states who refused to lay down their arms - as a punishment, not as a great moral gesture. Since none of the states gave up, all the slaves were eventually freed. I think today we forget that the outlook on why the war was happening while it was happening is very different than we perceive today!
Do I think "we" should apologize? I don't know - it's a slippery slope, there are so many things our government has done that is now viewed at wrong, that was in step with the world at the time. When does it end? But you could look at it the other way - the US government has apologized to a lot of groups for a lot of things, so why not this? | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 6/25/2008 10:42:33 PM | Right after the Brits apologize to the Irish for their actions before, during, and after the Great Hunger (aka the Irish Potato Famine, or An Gorta Mór).
:) | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 6/26/2008 12:00:15 AM | FYI twilight,
Yet you want to make a token apology and make yourself feel better rather then do anything to combat the real injustices that are going on right now
Au contraire! I do not make "token apologies". What's the point? Additionally, I do something to combat real injustices every day!
appologizing for crap
Mmmm hmmm, another disingenuous devotee of personal responsibility!
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 6/26/2008 9:46:18 AM | So I have a question because I'd like to hear from those feeling an apoligy is still needed. I would like to better understand their logic in this thing because I truly do not understand why we in our day feel a need to apoligize for behavior of a small percentage of people that endorsed a slave law that was did away with almost 150 years ago?
I am sorry slavery was a legalized law in some states in America. But should I be compelled to apoligize for those endorsing it over 140 years ago? Should the now living descendents of Black Americans, Native American Indians, South and Central American Indians, all used as slaves/servants by Americans, those now living descendents who now never had to be a part of slavery, still be expecting apoligies for their long dead ancestors? If you think yes, explain in detail to me why you feel an apoligy now is going to heal a part of the past that has been constantly apoligized for since it happened. Then explain to me when or if you think a time might come forth when an apoligy will not be needful any more. | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 6/26/2008 4:31:41 PM | | Yeah I'm just wondering WHO, exactly, is supposed to apoligize given that all the perpetrators are long dead. Seriously. Who wants to volunteer to apologize to me for robbing my house a couple of years ago? I know you didn't do it and all, but I still deserve an apology from you. Right? Oh, and reparations. Ya'll owe me about $3500. Cough it up! | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 6/26/2008 6:25:29 PM | I am not the US but I am a small part of it, only one person, but I will say I am sorry for slavery. If I could undo it I would. But I cant. I am sorry slaves were brought to America,treated like animals, forced to work long hard hours, have their children, siblings or parents sold etc...because I understand they were humans, and had the same feelings and needs I have. No person should ever have been treated that way.
Now, is there anyone whose ancestors were slaves wish the past could be undone.If you could change the past, would you have Europeans of the past to have never bought slaves from Africa. All the slaves and their decedents would be in Africa today, and maybe as it is today.
My ancestors came from Germany, Scotland, France and Ireland, around the early 1800'sIf I could change the past, my ancestors would not have ever left their homeland. And if I still existed, which I am sure I would not, I would be there, maybe as it is today and I would not be constantly dealing with, being harassed, or being blamed for the sins of the US's past.
All I can do is apologize, but that does not change anything, or does it. Does it at least let me off the hook for what my ancestors may or may not have done. As far as I know, my ancestors never owned slaves. They were to poor. | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 6/26/2008 7:17:07 PM | | The US was supposed to apologize by giving a free mule and an acre of land to every freed slave.. I still hear complaints it was never done. The problem is this. There are many people who are not even eating for the price of gas. People who owe bushels because of prices these days.. Now, what if suddenly, they had to pay a pack of taxes to honor this promise, when a lot of the descendants of slaves are now high school principals or have a succesful businesses, while the descendnts of the slave owners are homeless. Times change and there are other slaves. | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 6/26/2008 8:57:12 PM | | Another thing, the united states did not consist of 50 states during the time of slavery. Should just those states during that time apologize or all the states that exist now. As far as the mule and an acre of land, who would it be given to. By the time the worth of the land and mule of that time got split up among all the decedents, I am sure it would not be worth much now, and the government may make money off giving what was promised because of property tax. Most working Americans are about the same as slaves today. We get money to live on from and supply our needs, not like the slaves, but the slaves home and most of their needs were met by their owners, modern day employers. If the slaves did not work, they were beat or killed. Today, if a anyone don't work, they still have their needs met due to handouts.So, I think any American who works is a glorified slave to their employer. We live in times of modern day slavery.Should the US apologize? What would it really accomplish? Todays slave owners(businesses) need to be sorry, not just say they are. | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 7/12/2008 4:32:54 AM | | Slavery did not end in 1865. Slavery was a system of phsysical bondage and psychological toruture (read: Alex Bontemps, The Punished Self: Surviving Slavery in the Colonial South). Legal slavery may have been abolished in 1865 but slavery was more than physical bondage. The systemic denial of Black equality through systems of oppression such as through Jim Crow laws (denying African Americans equal access to public places, the vote, and basic human dignity, including the practice of ethnic cleansing through lynching against African Americans-does this call for an apology?) continued through the 1960s and beyond. I believe the apology should be broadly construed in that it calls for an apology for slavery and racial oppression. In 1986, the U.S. Congress apologized to the people of Hawaii for the illegal seizure of their country. In 2001, the BIA (Bureau of Indian Affairs) apologized to Native Americans for ethnic cleansing and the illegal seizure of property (dating before the 1800s for which Native Americans have received some reparations). More than a half a dozen U.S. states have recently apologized for slavery. Japanese Americans have also received reparations and an apology from the U.S. government for the WWII internment of the Japanese by the U.S. (the majority of whom were U.S. citizens). To deny African Americans an apology is to deny African Americans human dignity. Slavery and oppression was/is about the dehumanizatiion of a people. | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 7/12/2008 5:12:00 AM | i agree with you op,it would be rather pointless.it won't change anything, the past is the past and it was dealt with in that era.we've come a long way since then and the public has been made aware of how horrible slavery was.
as kicnbac had said that debt was paid by the blood of thousands and this generation shouldn't be held accountable.we do have the responsibility to ensure it will never occur again and not to forget that dark part of history.
there are numerous numbers of catastrophes in history all over the world and it's still going on. we've hopefully learned from those horrific events and have grown from them, finding resolutions and correcting them for the future generations to come. yes op, i also say put the issue to bed. | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 7/12/2008 9:44:56 AM | | When the issue of racial oppression is "put to bed" this issue should retire with it. Again, several U.S. states have already apoligized for slavery. Again, Native Americans received an apology from a branch of the U.S. government along with reparations. Hawaii was a sovereign NATION with a MONARCH before it was seized in an illegal Coup in the 1890s and fell under the control of the U.S. and this is why the U.S. Congress apologized. To deny African Americans the same, is to deny the humanity of African Americans. The U.S. government has set a PRECEDENT in acknowledging past wrongs against various ethnic groups. This issue of an apology has more to do with recognizing the equal humanity of African Americans. This dialogue demonstrates the inability of many who refuse to recognize the equal humanity of Black people given the historical precedents already set by the U.S. government. Also, the inability (not surprising) of most to understand the history of slavery and racial oppression overall. | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 7/12/2008 2:46:53 PM | Tribes in Africa would capture people from other tribes and sell them to trader ships...or get rid of people who didn't quite agree with the Chief. The history of slavery in Africa is found quite quickly in any library. It happened a long time before the US was even a nation, and still continues to this day in a few African countries.
It's not a humanity issue, it's a how long must we pay for the stupidity of our forefathers and their countrymen. | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 7/12/2008 7:34:57 PM | very interesting debate.
as an aussie, i am curious about the mind set of the ancestors of slaves. is it still a wound? does it still rankle and fester in the psyche of someone whose great great whatever was in slavery?
many of you will know that our prime minister recently apologised to the 'stolen generation' of aborigines - children forcibly removed from their homes to be raised in white families. many lost their families forever and, even for those who didn't, the emotional scarring was profound. but this is recent history with survivors of this well intentioned but hideously wrong social experiment still alive.
i saw interviews with many after the 'im sorry' speech and it did mean the world to them. many tears were shed by all australians and it just feels better now.
chrissy | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 7/12/2008 9:31:46 PM | | The time for an apology has passed. The people who were actually enslaved, no matter the ethnicity, are long dead. Also, it's a bit presumptious to even say "Well, your ancestors enslaved us, you jerk" (put mildly, of course). My family on my mother's side lived in Germany, and on my father's side they lived in Ireland, until just before the start of the second World War. So... yeah. Why should everyone apologize for something that doesn't really apply to them? I think it should be families that had slaves apologizing to families of slaves that they "owned" at one point or another, if anything. You know, family to family. It shouldn't be a public ordeal. | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 7/13/2008 12:23:58 AM | i agree with you op,it would be rather pointless.it won't change anything
Evidently those who are asking for an apology do not feel the same, or they wouldn't be asking. Symbolic gestures can have a powerful meaning.
I don't understand those who are so adamantly against an official US apology. Like them, I was not around then, and, like them, I don't know if any of my ancestors were slave owners, or part of the slave trade. But I would be proud if my government stood up and said that the ideals of this nation were violated when slavery was condoned and protected by law, and acknowledged that slavery was a stain on our national soul, and an evil whose repercussions endure to this day. | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 7/14/2008 9:10:10 AM | Of what value is the US apologizing for slavery going to be?
We might as well rally the world into an apology party so all cultures who at some point in their ancestry had slaves can all apologize.
Search slavery via historyworld.net.
At some point, is it not more viable to leave old bones buried and live in "today"?
It's not a humanity issue, it's a how long must we pay for the stupidity of our forefathers and their countrymen.   | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 7/14/2008 10:52:34 AM | | After a quick perusal of those opposed to apologizing for slavery on the basis that it was the misdeeds of their ancestors, and they had nothing to do with it, I noticed that most listed Christianity as their religion. For me, this begs the question....why are you still atoning for Original Sin which is the basis of the whole religion? You weren't there, and had nothing to do with it. I'm not asking this to bash your religion. I really want to know. I'm hoping that someone can give me an answer so that I can say, 'Oh....okay....that's why.' | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 7/14/2008 6:34:59 PM | To underail this:
I disagree that the US as it stands should apologise for slavery. The true sufferers of that era are pretty much extinct; there's no one left to apologise to. Anyone that didn't live through it themselves is extremely arrogant for demanding - or even requesting - an apology.
Slavery no longer exists, and although civil rights are not exactly kosher - on either side of the race spectrum - they could be far worse.
Apologising today would put ownership of the event on the shoulders of the current society, and that's wrong on any moral level; the sins of the father should not carry to the son - unless the son continues that legacy. | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 7/14/2008 11:19:00 PM |
This is a good topic. My thoughts are this. In Canada we have Natives. We took their land many thousands of years ago. We have apologized for our actions and that was a long time ago but still in 2008 we do the following:
1. Natives do not pay the 13% HST.
2. Natives at the age of 15 get money each month to stay in school
3. Natives get free university paid by the gov't
4. Natives get free houses built for them
5. Natives get their social assistant cheques before white people do
6.. Natives are allowed to hunt, fish etc all year round. White people can only at certain times of the year and we need to buy a license. Natives sell what they catch though it is illegal and the police officers do nothing about it. If a white person is caught poaching salmon, for example, they can lose all they own.
I am not saying it is right or wrong but those are the facts. Also, the more native blood you have, the more you get from the gov't. My niece is half native and I learned a lot from her.
Now that is what we do in Canada for taking someones land. I am mentioning this because I did see a program on tv about a group of black men who wanted stuff like this for his ancestors being slaves.
I am not saying it is right to take land. I am not saying it is right to have slaves but how long do we have to pay for the sins of our ancestors? WE did not do it and we need to stop just giving handouts due to what our ancestors did. My heart goes out to what was done to slaves etc but why should I pay for that when I have done nothing wrong?
~Carrie
Wow, I was in a great mood until I read this thread. I'll start by saying this; I have no problem with non-natives having restrictions placed on them or for having to pay higher taxes. Mind you, I am an American, I don't have a dog in this fight.
Now, I'm leaving out all of the violence for the sake of argument. But, let me ask you to look at it like this; what if you moved unto someone else's property. In effect, you're just renting. Over time, you prosper using the resources found on that property. Cool, but it doesn't matter how long you live there or how rich you get, you still have to pay rent and a portion of your profits to the landlord. Why, because it's not your property and those are not your resources. Your are, essentially, leasing the rights to exploit those resources.
Lets say you die, but your family still lives on that property. Just because you're gone doesn't mean they stop paying rent. As long as they're on that property, they have to pay rent too. Ask your self this; where in the world can you live on someone else's property, and eat their food, without paying rent and board?
I'll be back to address the U.S. argument later. It's late and I have to get some sleep. Battling mis-information is tiring.
Lateef | |
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