| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 7/15/2008 4:26:49 AM | Msg. 51
I am a firm believer in personal responsibility. Accept the responsibility that your actions cause. I am not accepting responsibility for some thing i didnt do. I dont see what is so hard to understand there.
What I find very disturbing about some of the posts in this thread is the pervasive sense of entitlement that the color of someone's skin affords one special privileges under the guise of a "warranted' apology.
African-American heritage is rich with heroes who didn't sit back and whine about what they were entitled too but stepped up and acted on doing something about what was wrong - some to their own demise. Yet I continue to find it disturbing that those who want to claim generations later being wronged by people long since dead (which by the way the complainers were not directly wronged by, as they were not alive either) use their ancesters' experiences as an excuse to avoid taking personal responsibility for their own lives. Frankly, that, IMO, is a form of disrespect to their own heroes.
My maternal great-grandfather was reportedly a slave owner. I wasn't even a twinkle in my daddy's eye then nor was my daddy a twinkle in his daddy's eye and so on. Yet I personally owe the "slaves" nothing more than I would give to any other human being on the planet - treat with dignity, courtesy and respect. An apology? H*ll no.
However, if I ever encounter in my lifetime a certain 5th grade African-American teacher who risked her life to get us "white-crackers" out of our DC elementary school as the riots were breaking out - darn right I would give her a hug and huge thank you for her being color-blind. I lost classmates that day, by the way,African-American classmates. Good kids - that treated our tiny percentage of whites as though we were no different from them.
I have Jew in my ancestry. So should I expect Germany to apologize to me and afford me all manner of perks simply because people of that element of my ancestry were murdered atrociously? I think not.
I have American Indian in my ancestry. Let's talk about apologies there, shall we?
Enough said. | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 7/15/2008 4:23:29 PM | After a quick perusal of those opposed to apologizing for slavery on the basis that it was the misdeeds of their ancestors, and they had nothing to do with it, I noticed that most listed Christianity as their religion. For me, this begs the question....why are you still atoning for Original Sin which is the basis of the whole religion? You weren't there, and had nothing to do with it. I'm not asking this to bash your religion. I really want to know. I'm hoping that someone can give me an answer so that I can say, 'Oh....okay....that's why.'
Hmmm...this is a really interesting point that I am hoping someone will answer. | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 7/15/2008 5:14:48 PM | | Only the Catholics believe in Original Sin...everyone else realizes that the Catholics rely more on Traditions & Catachism than they do the Bible. | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 7/15/2008 6:38:52 PM | The US has apologized. Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and GW have all said in writings that they did not want slavery in the US. One said he feared what the just God will do to the country and him for slavery, one dreamed of a large vial of wrath being pourd on the US for "this great sin against God". One put in the first admendment to abolish slavery as soon as the southern states signed it.
There are still slaves in America they are called below wage workers, India calls them Dalit, Philliens call them helps, France calls them free labor work force. | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 7/15/2008 9:02:51 PM | No
An apology isn't really necessary IMO. We all know that slavery is morally wrong yet at the time it was
acceptable by many millions of people worldwide.
I'd rather have an apology for the "current" inequalities that we have in the US and across the globe.
O | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 7/16/2008 12:12:47 AM |
I have Jew in my ancestry. So should I expect Germany to apologize to me and afford me all manner of perks simply because people of that element of my ancestry were murdered atrociously? I think not.
I have American Indian in my ancestry. Let's talk about apologies there, shall we?
Enough said.
No, apparently not. According to a Time Magazine article, Japanese internment survivors where to be paid $20,000 a piece. This was done in 2005. There were held prisoners for a few months. Blacks where held as slaves in incredibly harsh conditions for decades. Then, had to endure a century or so more of Jim Crow laws. We were promised 40 acres and mule. We didn't get either. The Japanese also received an official apology in 1988.
American Indians should be apologized to. This is there land we're on here. And the way it was taken from them was nothing short of evil. At least there was legislation to formally apologize to American Indians for years of government mistreatment and abuse. This was introduced in Feb 2008 and I believe it passed. Thats a good thing, because I think they got it as bad, or worse then Blacks.
Germany apologized to the Jews decades ago. If people would do their research they would see that. In 1988 America apologized to native Hawaiians for the unlawful overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom. And, just to throw one more in; on Feb. 11, the Australian government issued a formal apology to Aborigines for decades of racist policies and abuse against that country's original inhabitants.
So, does anyone want to tell me why America can apologize to everyone else, except us? I mean really give me one logical, real word excuse why Blacks should not get an official apology from the US Government. I could understand if that just isn't something America does for anyone. Then I'd understand. But when everyone else is getting one, why shouldn't we?
Lateef | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 7/16/2008 9:19:36 AM | | If the US should apologise for anything, imo, they really should apologise for the crap beer they ship to Canada. Budweiser, Coors, that shit is awful!!! | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 7/16/2008 9:46:41 AM | note to self*....make sure I am on 2nd cup of coffee before I start reading these damn posts..lol
For those that mailed me with thier views , I wish I could have taken credit for the previous posting , but it comes fromThe Hal Turner show...it was just something I copied and pasted from a site I was on...BUT...I say... "well said Hal"...there are many that feel the same...I am tired of hearing all the whining that goes on over.. and over.. and over again..
I believe in EQUAL rights..not "special" rights from anyone..everyone has frigging rights but as soon as ya mention "white" rights ...then your a racist idiot...by the way ..does anyone know of any "white only" rights ?...any white activist thats doing good for mankind ?...nope..me either...we arent allowed to have them...so my opion is everyone should stfu and live as ONE...HUMANS | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 7/16/2008 10:53:03 AM | Twister
Man you must have received some nastygrams. I agree with you though, enough with the apologies already. If there was a wrong done...make it right as much as possible and them move on. Too much bloodshed has occurred already. It appears that there are people that love creating feelings of "entitlement" on both sides.
For once I'd like to just bleed "Red White and Blue"
O | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 7/16/2008 11:18:03 AM |
Apology to the Black Race:
To the entire Black race living in America, we, the Adamic, pink complexioned race (better known to you as the White race) that came to these shores from Europe, England, Scotland, Ireland, and Iceland, apologize for freeing you from slavery by fighting a horrible war among ourselves that cost the lives of almost two million of our own race. We apologize for continuing to fight among ourselves over that very issue, even though you’ve never told us you appreciate our freeing you.
We apologize for splitting to pieces our entire race the world over to take sides with you to help you survive and become a freer race. We apologize for forcing the rest of the world to outlaw the slavery which your ancestors had practiced for thousands of years, even though many nations on your home continent still practice it today.
We apologize for thinking we could civilize you when you have proven that it is indeed an impossible feat, a feat beyond anything we could have ever imagined.
Okay. Right up until the last line it makes sense. Those that want an apology and reparations seem loath to admit that the very people that will be paying for it are the descendants of those who freed them in the first place. Or address what would have happened to their line had they been left as slaves in Africa. Yes it was wrong, and it will not be repeated in any modern society.
After that nothing but broad generalizations and slamming an entire segment of the population because of a few whiny-a$$ed idiots in that population.
I certainly wouldn't accept a white-trash Alabama trailer park as indicative of who I am because we might share a similar skin tone, and it is just plain stupid to paint everyone of African ancestry with the same brush because of a few "career victims". | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 7/16/2008 11:30:53 AM | Obsidian
oh yes I got all kinds of mail..you think it ..I got it..lol.
In a world where we strive to live as one ,we need to put the past behind...almost seems as simple as Forest Gump said.
We ALL bleed red and all look for a better tomarrow...we are afterall...ONE...lets carry on from there ,and leave the past as just that...the past. | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 7/16/2008 11:57:14 AM |
We ALL bleed red and all look for a better tomarrow...we are afterall...ONE...lets carry on from there ,and leave the past as just that...the past.
Makes perfect sense to me. Besides, can't very well have a promising tomorrow if wasting today crying over yesterday. | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 7/16/2008 3:44:22 PM | | I as a modern day white man, do not think I owe an apology to anyone, except for maybe my children. I moved south from the north without them. For a job of course, but that child support goes out every week, no matter what may. hell or high water, it goes. And I ain't complaining. It goes to the best cause i can think of. My childrens well being. Like it has been said, the past is the past. let it be. | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 7/22/2008 8:01:55 PM | Slavery has existed for thousands of years and still does in parts of the world.
Still, yes, there should be apologies and compensation.
HOWEVER. ONLY those who enslaved should pay or offer apology. and only those who WERE slaves should receive.
In fact, a New York court just ordered a couple in New York to pay their former slaves over $12.5 million .
As more slaves are found or freed, they too should be compensated by their captors. | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 7/22/2008 8:11:45 PM |
Only the Catholics believe in Original Sin...everyone else realizes that the Catholics rely more on Traditions & Catachism than they do the Bible.
And just WHO do you think compiled the Bible?
Old Testament is Jewish in origin and decisions on what went into and cut from what is current Bible was by Catholic Church. THE ONLY Christian Church until Martin Luther separated Lutherans in about 1215.
Other Christian faiths splintered off after.
Catholic Church FAR from perfect, but if not for them no other Christians would be here NOW. | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 7/22/2008 11:23:05 PM | I certainly wouldn't accept a white-trash Alabama trailer park as indicative of who I am...
Then what's with the photo of you wearing a wife-beater? | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 7/23/2008 3:44:52 AM |
Catholic Church FAR from perfect, but if not for them no other Christians would be here NOW.
Hmmmm...so the Catholic church is as powerful or more powerful than God himself? So much so that Christianity is not rooted on Jesus Christ at all but on the Catholic Church? Does He know that? Does God know that He could not have established and sustained a relationship with mankind without the Catholic Church?
What was the name of that angel that believed he was greater than his creator again? 
Back to topic - the whole concept of (referencing one of the posts about a 12.5 mil$ settlement) descendants of slaves suing descendants of slave-owners is ludicrous. Slavery isn't the only "wrong" committed in history. Let's just sue everyone for the moral wrongs committed by their ancestors towards our ancestors. Heck - for that matter, let's all save attorney fees and court costs, throw all the global money into a huge bucket and distribute it evenly amongst everyone as a settlement and resolve some economic concerns at the same time. Oh, and further establish an annual global apology day going forward so no one can ever say again that this country or that country never apologized for this moral wrong or that moral wrong committed against one's ancestors again. | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 7/23/2008 10:50:56 AM | Angelheart, you are reading things into my post.
Reference to Catholic Church is historical fact. Was only Christian Church for first 1200 years after death of Christ. If Church had not compiled books written and compiled them in New Testament and had Catholic Monks handwriting copies until printing press was invented in 1500's. We would have no knowledge of Christ now.
And like it or not. The Bible is not the complete story. The Vatican decided which books or scrolls made it INTO the Bible. Some scrolls, like the recently discover "Book of Judas" could provide great knowledge of events in Christ's life ESPECIALLY since the Gospels were written 100 years after Christ's time.
Just responded to people who HATE and JUDGE Catholics so harshly. If your Christian Church is not Catholic, it splintered off from Catholic Church after the first 1200 years and kept the Bible that Vatican compiled. I have my own issues with Catholic Church, but people who HATE or JUDGE other people clear don't listen to Christ.
And the $12.5 Million Judgement in New York is recent News. Since you haven't heard about it, let me enlighten. A couple in New York have been ordered to pay to two women they brought over to this country as servants. They confiscated their passports, beat them regularly and underfed them. They escaped about 18 months ago. They were treated as slaves (and in fact WERE slaves).
So, this case met the criteria I stated in my post. The people paid WERE the actual slaves and the payers were the actual slave holders with direct responsibility. Both were also sentenced to jail.
I believe the man Owns a perfume company.
So, you can disagree with me. But I find the comparison to Lucifer offensive. Next time don't read using your prejudice, but read as written. You can judge and hate if you like, but that is why the world has so much death and war.
Two Biblical statements I TRY to live by:
Love thy neighbor as thyself
Judge not, lest though be judged | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 7/27/2008 2:41:48 PM |
I think they did with the 360,222 men that gave there lives to set them free..
This is not necessarily being politically honest. Where Union soldier fighting to preserve the Union
or where they fighting to "free slaves"? I view the Civil War as a fight to preserve the Union first and
foremost but I'd be remiss to ignore the hot button issue that slavery was.
So I would personally reject the notion that soldiers fought and gave their lives to "Free Slaves" when that
really wasn't what the Civil War was about. There were a lot more issues that the South has a bone to pick
with that had nothing to do with Slavery. Taxes and import/export issues for tobacco/cotton industries were
certainly a part.
Attempting to turn the deaths of the Union soldiers into some benevolent or altruistic act does their legacy
a disservice. It may help allay your own internal guilt if that exists but it does not suffice as an apology for
many, who's lives and lineage have been affected by Slavery.
O | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 7/27/2008 4:58:25 PM | Billinmi-it is quite true that the Catholics were responsible for everything placed in the Bible, however, following the same book that was proffered by the Vatican in King James' time has little to do with what the Catholic Church has become. What has the current Catholic Mass have to do with ANYTHING in the Bible? Very little.
It's also rather amusing that the Catholic Church itself put out a set of rules for "What is a Cult?" and oddly enough, the Catholic Church itself is guilty of committing ALL of those acts, and most rather recently. Should I list it all out and go down them one by one? Or have you read them already and KNOW.
I probably wouldn't be so anti-catholic if I hadn't BEEN one. Going to St. Joesph's Seminary opened my eyes to a lot more than I ever wanted it to. And until I hear of a major purge of all the homosexual priests & child molesters which has YET to happen unless criminal charges are brought and even THEN little is done...I'll stay on the outskirts, praying alone on the mountain because I can't TRUST the Church. And I probably never will. I'm certainly not going to bring my CHILD into a Catholic Church...not knowing what I know.
Forgiveness is one thing, trust is another altogether. | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 7/27/2008 5:33:53 PM |
until I hear of a major purge of all the homosexual priests & child molesters which has YET to happen unless criminal charges are brought and even THEN little is done...I'll stay on the outskirts, praying alone on the mountain because I can't TRUST the Church. And I probably never will. I'm certainly not going to bring my CHILD into a Catholic Church...not knowing what I know.
I can absolutely relate. My dad was one of those very young altar boys. There is no "Christ" in that conduct. Forgive? Yes. Trust the "human" church? Never. Far too many "agendas", most of which not in keeping with the essential intent and message of Christianity.
However, regardless of how instrumental the Catholic Church was in deciding what was to be relevant content in the Bible, God is not so small that Christianity would have simply disappeared as a small blot in history without the Catholic Church. JMHO | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 8/10/2008 1:49:10 PM | | Obsidian71, sure you have some valid points.. but lets not forget where did the salves run to when they escape? to the north were they were accepted, harbored in safe houses. and ok lets say 10 percent had this idea in mind, free the slaves..thats still 36,022 men... or 5% had this in mind.that's still 18,011 men.. that gave there lives. regaurdless in the end many died and the slaves were freed. the wrong was righted and they now enjoy one of the highest standard of livings in the world for there race. even the poor in this country, have a higer standard of living then many in the world. my wish is that white, black and all can accept eachother and become one people not divided by the sins of the past. but one stronge people that unite and look out for eachother with respect and love. | |
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| should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 8/10/2008 2:35:46 PM | I can't believe some of the comments here. People are so set in their, "I'm right ..." mentality they ignore any facts that are presented before them. That what's wrong with this country, people ignore the truth in favor of what they "feel."
Bottom line, America has apologized to everyone else. There is a precedent for it. IT HAS BEEN DONE BEFORE. THIS IS A FACT! So, why not do this for the race people who helped build this country with virtual free labor? Give me a factual reason for not apologizing. Not how you feel, not what you think, but a reason grounded in FACT. Give me a reason why Black Americans are not deserving of the same thing other races have been given.
Lateef | |
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