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 Author Thread: Obama [Thread Closed]
 Kiss_My_Karma~

Joined: 7/4/2005
Msg: 526
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Obama
Posted: 8/3/2008 4:15:18 PM
I got news, junior....we're already at war in Afghanistan!

Dude, you can't just jump on here 4 days ago and start posting this stuff w/out citations. Sources please. And make em good ones, and then your newbness will be exonerated. :)
 Strongdad

Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 527
Obama
Posted: 8/3/2008 4:17:45 PM
Chick....I just pasted a link in my last post. And, I can jump in here anytime I wish. God bless America.

Yes, we are already at war in Afghanistan. What was your point?

SD
 Kiss_My_Karma~

Joined: 7/4/2005
Msg: 528
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Obama
Posted: 8/3/2008 4:23:22 PM
I wasn't talking to you, strongdad. There are other people posting on these threads, you know. I know you're the most important one, but there are others.
 Slowride_

Joined: 4/6/2007
Msg: 529
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Obama
Posted: 8/3/2008 4:23:50 PM

Posted By: horneschwoggle on 8/2/2008 9:03:33 AM
Subject: Obama
Message: > > Proposed changes in taxes after 2008 General election:


SNOPES.COM debunks this email as a LIE.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/taxes.asp

Regarding this email about capital gains taxes etc. If you are looking to accurately post information on a candidate using an email you received, it's usually a good idea to check it's validity. That's the part where people are sitting in two classes:

1. Those who believe and perpetuate false information because it's what they want to believe and validate their point of view regardless of whether is true or not, or just too lazy to validate the message that they pass on to others as fact.

2. Those who are interested in the truth and willingly question the folks in group #1.

Here's what a one-minute search of Snopes.com turned up on your post....


Every recent presidential election cycle has brought e-mailed forwards that paint the Democratic candidate as a proponent of a "tax and spend" philosophy (who will inevitably implement significant tax increases on taxpayers across all income levels) and present the Republican candidate as a model of fiscal conservatism, and the example quoted above fits this pattern.

However, this example is off the mark both in its broad strokes and in its particulars. According to the Tax Policy Center's analysis of the candidates' proposed tax changes, the primary difference between them would be distributional, with Senator Obama's proposals favoring lower-income taxpayers and Senator McCain's favoring higher-income taxpayers:

McCain: The average taxpayer in every income group would see a lower tax bill, but high-income taxpayers would benefit more than everyone else.

Obama: High-income taxpayers would pay more in taxes, while everyone else's tax bill would be reduced. Those who benefit the most — in terms of reducing their taxes as a percentage of after-tax income — are in the lowest income groups.

The Lie: OBAMA proposes a capital gains tax of 28% on profit from ALL home sales

The Truth: The statement that Senator Obama proposes instituting a 28% tax "on profit from ALL home sales" is false. Both candidates' proposals would leave intact an existing capital gains exemption for the first $500,000 per housedhold of profit from the sale of a primary residence.

DIVIDEND TAX

MCCAIN: 15% (no change)

OBAMA: 39.6%
The notion that Senator Obama is proposing raising the tax rate on dividend income from its current 15% level to a 39.6% is unfounded. Obama has proposed taxing dividends at the same rate as capital gains, and although he hasn't yet specified a figure for the latter, he has already stated (as noted above) that he "certainly would not go above" 28%. Also, the proposed increase would only affect households with income of more than $250,000 per year (a figure that encompasses about 2% of U.S. households.)

INCOME TAX

Income Avg tax bill Avg. tax bill
MCCAIN OBAMA
Over $2.9M -$269,364 +$701,885
$603K and up -$45,361 +$115,974
$227K-$603K $7,871 +$12
$161K-$227K -$4,380 -$2,789
$112K-$161K -$2,614 -$2,204
$66K-$112K -$1,009 -$1,290
$38K-$66K -$319 -$1,042
$19K-$38K -$113 -$892
Under $19K -$19 -$567

INHERITANCE TAX

MCCAIN: 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax)

OBAMA: Restore the inheritance tax
Pretty much everything asserted about the inheritance tax (also referred to as "death tax" or "estate tax") in these few short statements — that President Bush repealed it, that Senator McCain would maintain it at 0%, and that Senator Obama would "restore" it — is wrong.

In general, estate tax currently applies only to estates valued at more than $2 million and tops out at a 45% rate. The exclusion amount is already set to rise to $3.5 million in 2009, followed by a repeal of the estate tax in 2010, and then a reinstatement of the estate tax in 2011 with the exclusion amount reverting back to $1 million and the tax rate topping out at 55%.

Senator McCain has proposed raising the estate tax exclusion amount to $5 million and setting a maximum estate tax rate of 15%, while Senator Obama has proposed raising the estate tax exclusion amount to $3.5 million and maintaining the maximum estate tax rate at its current 45% level.
 Strongdad

Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 530
Obama
Posted: 8/3/2008 4:29:51 PM
Good post, slowride. Here is the problem I have understanding Obamas tax plan.

He seems to move the numbers around.

He will raise taxes on people earning 75K a year.
He will raise them on 100K plus a year.
He will raise them on 250K a year.

He will raise them on the "wealthy." Someone please define wealth to me, in dollars of income.

It seems to be a moving target. Personally, that makes me nervous.

SD
 cujojunior

Joined: 7/31/2008
Msg: 531
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Obama
Posted: 8/3/2008 4:38:14 PM
Ok excuse me continued war in afghanistan. He wants to sent several extra brigades over there. As far a sources go, heres the list.

Sending troops to pakistan.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20070536/
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/08/03/obama.pakistan.ap/index.html
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/earlywarning/2007/08/obama_attacks_pakistan_pakista.html

Patriot act
http://obama.senate.gov/podcast/051216-the_patriot_act/index.php

Surveillance

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/11/obama.netroots/index.html?eref=rss_politics

National civilian security force.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-obama-national-servicejul03,0,5754842.story

Now if you dont believe these articles, i suggest you go on youtube and listen to the actual speeches. Search for Obama The Global war on terror speech in chicago. And search for Obama july 2nd colorado springs.

His angle is we need to pull out of Iraq and "redeploy" the troops to Afghanistan.

Newb? Heh heh.
 cujojunior

Joined: 7/31/2008
Msg: 532
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Posted: 8/3/2008 4:39:44 PM
excuse me...we need to redeploy the troops to Afghanistan and Pakistan. cant forget Pakistan. Thats where al qaeda really is! LMAO
 Slowride_

Joined: 4/6/2007
Msg: 533
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Obama
Posted: 8/3/2008 4:50:36 PM

Good post, slowride. Here is the problem I have understanding Obamas tax plan.
He seems to move the numbers around.
He will raise taxes on people earning 75K a year.
He will raise them on 100K plus a year.
He will raise them on 250K a year.
He will raise them on the "wealthy." Someone please define wealth to me, in dollars of income.
It seems to be a moving target. Personally, that makes me nervous.


It's the basic difference between Republican and Democrat taxation. The pubs protect those in the highest income brackets and keep taking from the middle class, and our middle class is dwindling. The Pubs continue to put money in the hands of corporations and the wealthiest 2% of Americans through loopholes and lower taxes. The middle class continues to foot a higher burden of the bill. Now with higher gas prices, which have had a domino effect on the entire economy with raised shipping costs, food costs, etc. we continue to foot the bill and the middle class disposable income continues in a downward spiral.

Add to that the loss of the major source of *wealth* to the middle class, their home equity, and more and more people are living paycheck to paycheck without a net now that they can't get the equity out of their homes. The Bush policies have allowed the middle class to foot the bill for the high profits and lessened taxation on the top earners.

Health insurance companies have jacked up health insurance premiums and laid the burden on the middle class. When Bill Clinton took office in '93 and Hillary started talking universal health care the insurance companies miraculously lowered their rates. I assume that will happen again when Obama is elected, and you'll see many corporations, especially Big Oil, start to work to get their profits and pricing inline lest they risk having it mandated by congress.

Under Bush these companies can be as predatory as the market will allow in the name of profits, and they are allowed to do it to their hearts content. It's all about the profits and the stockholders. When they face having their practices governed, they suddenly get a bit less greedy.
 Slowride_

Joined: 4/6/2007
Msg: 534
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Posted: 8/3/2008 4:53:36 PM

Chick....I just pasted a link in my last post. And, I can jump in here anytime I wish. God bless America.

Yes, we are already at war in Afghanistan. What was your point?

SD


Posting hyperbole is easy to do, and you are welcomed to post at your hearts content. There are those of us who will happily supply the actual data to refute your claims.

Basically it will be a case of our karma running over your dogma.
 Kiss_My_Karma~

Joined: 7/4/2005
Msg: 535
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Posted: 8/3/2008 4:58:38 PM

His angle is we need to pull out of Iraq and "redeploy" the troops to Afghanistan.


This is not exactly new news here. I happen to agree with him, that really is where Al Quaeda is. I'll have to check your surveillance link later, I'm on the phone right now.
 a bit nomadic

Joined: 6/14/2006
Msg: 536
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Posted: 8/3/2008 5:01:11 PM

I'll have to check your surveillance link later


Are we all going to have to wear green tomato transmitters?
 cujojunior

Joined: 7/31/2008
Msg: 537
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Obama
Posted: 8/3/2008 5:04:42 PM
Ha so you are pro war, as long as its in Afghanistan and Pakistan and not Iraq. Works out quite nicely for defense industry huh? You know how we finance these wars? Borrowing money from the murderous communist chinese that have killed and tortured at least 100 million people. Freedom! The American economy is gone folks. This will become much more apparent in the next year or so. Dont worry though, this 9/11 McCain and Obama will team up to give speeches for an organisation called "service nation". They are calling for the creation of 100 million government service jobs. So after the economy implodes we will all be able to work for the government! Thanks corporate elite!
 Strongdad

Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 538
Obama
Posted: 8/3/2008 5:11:09 PM
Hey! Get off the phone and argue with us dangit! Sheesh!

With regards to Obamas waffling.......

In remarks in February 2007, Obama said he backed a plan that would bring U.S. troops home by March 2008.

America, it is time to start bringing our troops home," he said. "It's time to admit that no amount of American lives can resolve the political disagreement that lies at the heart of someone else's civil war.

"That's why I have a plan that will bring our combat troops home by March of 2008."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92226488

March of 2008? Really? Better get busy!

Feb 07.....Bring our troops home.
July 08....Send em to Afghanistan.

Ah, come on. Let the man eat his waffle!

SD
 cujojunior

Joined: 7/31/2008
Msg: 539
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Posted: 8/3/2008 5:16:29 PM
Yeah just laugh it up folks. Dont read the articles or listen to the actual speeches or anything like that. Don't do any actual research. Obama didn't call for a civilian national security force with as much power as the military on july second in colorado springs. The video of him shouting this doesn't exist. Everything is fine. America has gotten to a point where we are so free that we are willing to consider a black or female candidate. *tear* I just love this great government. They don't have NSA surveillance programs with massive supercomputers with enough storage to record every letter you've ever typed or every phone call you've ever made. Nooo its good. The government loves you. They didnt slaughter over a million innocent people in iraq. Theyre goooood.

Heres the link to obamas speech, where he calls for the civilian national security force. Now you can hear it from the man himself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df2p6867_pw

Ok now skip to 16:45

CIVILIAN NATIONAL SECURITY FORCE. DO YOU UNDERSTAND???
 Strongdad

Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 540
Obama
Posted: 8/3/2008 5:19:26 PM
The govt slaughtered a million people in Iraq? Post that link.
 MtLoopHiker

Joined: 8/6/2005
Msg: 541
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Posted: 8/3/2008 5:24:33 PM
cujo, you could have done better. If you want to do better, there are snips and splices of Obama's speeches from the Aryan Nations that do everything you want. Nevermind that McCain only wants to stay in Iraq for 100 years, and Obama wants to get out of there in a few months.
 cujojunior

Joined: 7/31/2008
Msg: 542
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Posted: 8/3/2008 5:25:38 PM
The lancet medical journal (a study carried financed by the british govt, our allies in the war on terror) that said that 660,000 civilians had died since the beginning of the war. That was 2 years ago. Now you'll say "but saddam gassed his own people". The CIA recruited Saddam at age 22, and financed the Baath party to overthrow the Iraqi government. This was so they could keep the Soviets out of Iraq. The US and Europeans gave Saddam all of his chemical weapons, including anthrax and bubonic plague, to fight the Iraq-Iran war. That is new york times.
 Strongdad

Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 543
Obama
Posted: 8/3/2008 5:26:45 PM
Please share the link where McCain says he "wants to spend 100 years in Iraq."

Thank you.

SD
 cujojunior

Joined: 7/31/2008
Msg: 544
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Posted: 8/3/2008 5:28:54 PM
Obama isnt going to pull out. He says we need a permanent residual force there. Im not a white supremacist, or a McCain supporter. Im simply trying to get you out of this fantasy that Obama is a good guy that is anti war. I don't appreciate your straw man arguments. If you watched the point of the video I told you, you would have heard him call for the civilian national security force. Now are you in favor of a civilian national security force or what?
 Pickme83

Joined: 6/13/2007
Msg: 545
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Posted: 8/3/2008 5:29:11 PM
You can probably find McCain 100 years in Iraq somewhere on MoveOn.org. Just a guess though Strongdad.
 Kiss_My_Karma~

Joined: 7/4/2005
Msg: 546
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Posted: 8/3/2008 5:29:52 PM
I will help you out here, junior. You should read the rules before posting. I can see from your posts and your profile that conspiracy theory is near and dear to you. It's agianst the rules, and they will delete the crap out of any posts that are 'conspiracy theory'. I guess you can blame 'the man'. Just wanted to give a heads up. You're welcome :)
 cujojunior

Joined: 7/31/2008
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Posted: 8/3/2008 5:31:19 PM
So what is it that you are disagreeing with? Which one of my statements can you prove false? Is he not calling for war? Did he not vote to reauthorize patriot act? ITS ON HIS OWN WEBSITE. THAT ISNT A THEORY SWEETY.
 Kiss_My_Karma~

Joined: 7/4/2005
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Posted: 8/3/2008 5:33:11 PM
It's reaching at best. Now come on, get with the program and play nice. There are limits to how far you can stretch the truth.



 MtLoopHiker

Joined: 8/6/2005
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Posted: 8/3/2008 5:37:10 PM
Simmah notes
I will help you out here, junior. You should read the rules before posting. I can see from your posts and your profile that conspiracy theory is near and dear to you...


There is some definite CT going on here. As if they're trying to make Obama more like Bush than Bush is himself.
 cujojunior

Joined: 7/31/2008
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Posted: 8/3/2008 5:38:57 PM
It would be one thing if I didnt have sources for everything I have said. Not only do I have mainstream news, I have the actual speeches, where you can watch him utter the words that I have told you. What more do you need?

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=obama+war+on+terror+chicago+speech&hl=en&sitesearch=#q=obama%20speech%20woodrow%20wilson%20center&hl=en

Check out 4:21 on this video

Now before anyone else attacks me and calls me an evil conspiracy theorist, check out this video link and skip to 4:21 on this video. REPEAT DO NOT REPLY UNLESS YOU HAVE WATCHED THIS.
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