| Why men (and some women) do not want to marry?
Posted: 6/6/2008 8:13:36 PM | I used to believe in Marriage but have found that things aren't the way they used to be. After being divorced (aarrggghh twice) I have found that in the end it all ends up being about the finances. I have recovered 2 times and don't think that I can or am willing to do that again. Even when a marriage seems great, things can happen. I am all for the German way of doing things. After all, for those of us who are not going to have any more kids and who already have lives established.......what is the difference between being in a commited relationship with vows vs. no vows. I think some of the other posters are correct. Marriage is not the same, vows are not taken seriously, and if people are unhappy it is so much easier to just move on instead of working through. Don't get me wrong, I am all for working through things and getting to the other side, but what about the other party? I think that we have raised a generation of people who are so used to getting what they want, when they want that Marriage just doesn't conform anymore. So that is my 2 cents.... | |
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| Why men (and some women) do not want to marry?
Posted: 6/6/2008 8:33:00 PM | Sorry that last post did not come out right. I was referring to th trial marraige for two years. Blondes and computers don't always mix....at least not this one!  | |
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| Why men (and some women) do not want to marry?
Posted: 6/7/2008 8:32:01 PM | | My divorce will be final on July 22nd of this year. I married what I thought was the right way--to a man in my church of the same religion. Yet after all of the hurt, pain and abuse, I realize that it wasn't of God and that, I would perfectly be fine settling down again with someone--and have it be a long term relationship and not get married. Even though I was married, I had no security that that person would never hurt me or our children. You can be married to a jerk or be in a long term relationship with a great person. My friend and I had this exact conversation yesterday!. Anyway, that's what I think. | |
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| Why men (and some women) do not want to marry?
Posted: 6/13/2008 4:21:09 PM | | marriage is too overrated, in this day and age the whole maggiage thing dosent mean anything to people anymore, its just the next step is what they think, to me i dont care if i dont get married cause its just a piece of paper, i would be happy just spending the rest of my life with the one i love, there dosent have to be a marriage for that. | |
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| Why men (and some women) do not want to marry?
Posted: 6/13/2008 9:55:15 PM | | Dsire~ I'm with ya on that. I won't rule out getting married but it's not one of my goals. It's much more important to click with someone and keep on clickin' for the long haul than it is to get a contract that legally binds the relationship and everything else together. BTW, loved the freudian slip of combining "marriage" & "baggage" that you wrote earlier. It's very telling, lol. | |
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| Why men (and some women) do not want to marry?
Posted: 6/14/2008 9:59:56 AM | The romantic part of me says, "well sure I'll marry (again!) and make that stronger commitment if the situation is right." The cynic in me replies, "the end of your marriage left you emotionally smooshed. You're lucky it didn't leave you insolvent--financially and spiritually."
And the numbers are truly sad--I mean, why should we commit so much of ourselves to an institution that has an over 50% failure rating? Ye gods, every one of my past relationships failed.
But ah that romantic side is very tenacious. Maybe it's the same for you all.
I read somewhere recently that maybe our social mores are changing to the point that it will be the norm, maybe the sought after norm (reflected in art and literature, etc) to have multiple partners/"spouses" through life. Relationships entered knowing they will end, but still with passionate commitment. | |
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| Why men (and some women) do not want to marry?
Posted: 6/14/2008 10:06:39 AM | | Not everyone views marriage in the same view. I agree that it's horrible that it's so easy to get married and most don't take it seriously. There are a few of us out there who DO take it seriously. I refuse to get married without the plan of being forever. I understand that there are more hard times then easy. The hard part is trying to find someone who takes it as seriously as I do. I've always figured this is maybe why I've never been married and I am 30 years old. I've been proposed to twice. Never said yes. I may never get married. I hope that isn't the case, but I am prepared if that happens. I've watched my mother who on her 3rd husband. After the 2nd one, she said the same thing as the majority of women on here. And yet...here she is. I told her never say never. She is finally happy. I have tried to learn from her mistakes. But that is a whole other thread waiting to happen (lol)....but yeah, just remember there are some women (and men) who do want to get married for the right reasons and are willing to put the work in. | |
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| Why men (and some women) do not want to marry?
Posted: 6/14/2008 4:43:31 PM | | Your post sounds awfully condescending. I married both times thinking it was forever. Never did I believe that either one of my exhusbands did not believe that they would be in the marriage for ever. I know very few people out there that want to marry any more and most of them are for the same reasons stated in this thread. | |
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| Why men (and some women) do not want to marry?
Posted: 6/14/2008 10:00:37 PM | | I don't mean for it to be condescending. I apologize for that. Although in retrospect, I think I felt that the assumption made by some were overgeneralizing my generation. | |
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| Why men (and some women) do not want to marry?
Posted: 6/14/2008 11:02:00 PM | some people want to get married, some don't. More and more don't because marriage and family, as a social structure is fundamentally broken in america and volumes can be written theorizing about the reasons why, which are many I'm sure. Some of the reasons people don't want to get married: The no fault divorce laws are f'd up beyond belief, the divorce rate is 50%, women work as much and earn as much as men and can perfectly well take are of themselves, they no longer need the financial security of a male partner, protector or provider, its more fun being single with all your other single 40-something friends that are increasing in number, etc... the list goes on.
In our generation, marriage has become little more than a romantic symbol between two people. But romance fades. No fault divorce laws enable people to split up after the romance fades. That essentially has turned the contract into a meaningless piece of paper.
It used to be that if you got married, you were pretty darn stuck with it. It would require some provable allegations that the other person was cheating, abusing or otherwise breaking the marriage contract in some way. This was a very tangible reason for two people to get into a marriage contract together. Create a binding contract whereby both people would be compelled and motivated to try SUPER DUPER HARD to continue to love each other and stay together until the end.
However today, no such binding contract exists. no fault divorce has completely obliterated it. Signing a marriage contract is nothing more than adding the possibility that you will have to pay some alimony or child support in the future should the other person become bored with you. So let me get this straight, its a contract binding the person with more money to pay for the other person to live, indefinitely with no binding commitment in return. That is not a contract that makes ANY sense at all, unless you're the person that stands to receive alimony during divorce, then its a GREAT contract.
I find it hilarious when people state reasons for why they fear marriage, "fear of marrying the wrong person", "fear of growing apart", etc. Those are all the reasons that the marriage contract was created to begin with, to FORCE people to stay together even when they grow apart...or better yet..it motivates them to not let themselves grow apart. It motivates them to work on the partnership and find a way to make it work. People who say those things do not understand marriage or believe in it, and most likely are not going to be willing to put in the extra effort to make it work. They fear what is absolutely, and most probably GOING to happen to them.
In this climate, be very careful who you choose the marry. The statistics are too overwhelming to ignore...
I think many people are coming to realize that if marriage is this meaningless, then why create legal headaches for yourself. Just avoid it. | |
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| Why men (and some women) do not want to marry?
Posted: 6/14/2008 11:18:07 PM | | ^^^^Interesting perspective. I'm on the fence about whether or not forcing someone to stay in a rocky marriage would motivate them to find a way to make it work. In some circumstances, yes. In others, it would be disastrous. | |
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| Why men (and some women) do not want to marry?
Posted: 6/15/2008 8:08:44 PM | Veronica, I hear what you are saying and I don't mean to suggest that people in a "terrible" marriage should stay that way. But what I am saying is that because the rules have changed, ie, mainly no fault divorce....people simply are not trying as hard. Too many marriages that are perfectly well workable are tossed in the trash can. People are not compelled to keep the marriage strong. They are compelled to let it be whatever it is through little effort on their own and if it turns the least bit sour, they bail. That is the extreme that we find ourselves in as a society. I don't want to talk about individual cases. If the case is bad enough, the court system should provide a way out of that kind of marriage.
You can always argue that nobody in a rotten marriage should stay together....and that is the justification used to create the situation we are now in. However, the long term ramification of that on us as a society is that marriage as in institution has all but died on the vine.
Its kinda like the age old argument, about putting people in jail for committing crimes. Yes, you say, but what about the innocent person that is wrongly convicted and shut away in prison for life? Yea, that's true, its a tragedy. Nonetheless, overall the criminal justice system mostly works and keeps our society as a whole somewhat civil. Marriage can't work the way its currently structured. | |
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| Why men (and some women) do not want to marry?
Posted: 6/15/2008 10:34:32 PM | It wasn't just legalistic pressures that kept...well my parents, let's say, together....there were also religious compulsions. Not to mention social/communal constraints. They're all much less important now.
So nobody is forced...constrained...abject to a crappy marriage these days. You make your individual choice either to stay or to go. That's good, yeah?
But it's a tradeoff, isn't it? Lots of plusses and minusses. Especially when children are involved. | |
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| Why men (and some women) do not want to marry?
Posted: 6/15/2008 11:04:04 PM | I'm one who doesn't see divorce as necessarily bad, but then I've never been married so I may not entirely know what I'm talking about here.
The way marriage is currently structured works for about half of the people that get married. I'm guessing that the other half of unhappily marrieds was always there, we're just more aware of it now that divorce has become more socially acceptable.
I love kids and they're precious. Their well-being should always be the foremost consideration during any major decision-making. Sometimes that means staying married and other times it means it's better to get a divorce. Kids are extremely resilient and can do very well after a divorce in a lot of situations.
I've dated a couple of guys who had visitation & Mom had full custody. The kids were very well-adjusted, doing well in school and thriving. Both of them said the kids were actually doing better after the divorce since they were no longer living in an emotionally toxic environment. | |
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| Why men (and some women) do not want to marry?
Posted: 6/16/2008 10:11:05 PM | | well in my past it seemed to be fear of marrying the wrong man , or in love with him. i have ben asked many times, just could not do it, now its different i get it now if i am ever asked again yes will be in my future. provided i am in love . | |
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| Why men (and some women) do not want to marry?
Posted: 6/18/2008 3:29:58 PM | Well really if you think about it... If the marriage contract is so flimsy to begin with, then it makes no sense to have the contract at all. See if you feel that you should be able to get out of the marriage for any reason including you're not happy as you thought you would be....then I say....DO NOT GET MARRIED.
That is the whole point. marriage was not invented thousands of years ago so that people could officially recognize their romantic feelings towards each other. Marriage was instituted to compel people to stay together when the newness wears off later. Pure and simple. Its only in the last hundred years or so that we have twisted it into something else with more of a romantic emphasis. With this romantic emphasis, people want out of it when the romance fades. But that is defeating the very reason it was created as an institution to begin with. If you aren't into it for the real purpose, then I say, DO NOT GET MARRIED.
You do not need to get married to recognize your romantic love for each other. You can experience a lifetime of commitment and love without that contract. On the other hand, if you value the stability and peace of mind of knowing that a contract will compel your partner to stay with you even when he or she gets bored later...than you are the type of person that marriage was designed for. Sadly it seems that more and more people do not wish for this kind of stability. In that case, I have to question why they are bothering to get married to begin with then. If you are truly going to have endless love with your partner, then for what reason must you get married? Just be together and love each other endlessly, no problemo.
The OP asked why people don't get married. The reason is because the marriage contract is meaningless now. You might as well just have your romantic relationship with someone and let it last for as long as it lasts....maybe you'll be part of the lucky 50% that it lasts a lifetime, or maybe not. But what point is there for complicated legal entanglements at this point if you don't actually BELIEVE in that institution of marriage?
See what I mean? people are starting to realize that they don't actually believe in the institution of marriage and so they are simply electing not to do it.
I find its very often difficult for women to quite understand this. The reason is because the laws really are generally prejudiced against men and for the benefit of women. Women don't have to worry too much about any legal entanglements at all. If it doesn't work out they can choose to walk away at little cost to themselves if they want or they can usually get more out of it or whatever. Almost certainly they will get the kids if there are any. Though some of that situation seems to slowly be even-ing out. They have not gotten burned by this as much as men have in the past 10-15 years, so they simply haven't thought about it too much. Why rock the boat? Men on the other hand are getting seriously burned by it and that is why we are thinking about it a lot. Men think twice before considering marriage. Women have almost nothing to lose.
but if you really start paying attention to what is happening to other couples and what is likely to happen to you if both you and your partner don't value the "institution" of marriage, then you will quickly realize that marriage might be a bad idea. | |
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| Why men (and some women) do not want to marry?
Posted: 6/18/2008 5:30:46 PM |
Marriage was instituted to compel people to stay together when the newness wears off later. Pure and simple.
Um no. Marriage was primarily a method of conveying property rights. Namely the Woman+attached assets. If you wanted that prime spot of land - the daughter comes with it, and also they were "guranteed" that the assets would more or less stay in the family. Romance hardly ever entered the equation.
The definition of the word Husband for example:
2. British. a manager.
3. Archaic. a prudent or frugal manager.
–verb (used with object) 4. to manage, esp. with prudent economy.
5. to use frugally; conserve: to husband one's resources.
6. Archaic. a. to be or become a husband to; marry.
b. to find a husband for.
c. to till; cultivate.
It really wasn't until society stopped treating women as assets that the "Romantic" angle came in. I'm in no way espousing that we go back to treating women that way. Just pointing out the facts. | |
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| Why men (and some women) do not want to marry?
Posted: 6/18/2008 11:30:04 PM | Plus, if you look at the divorce rate...it's apalling. I'm so skeptical about marriage that my friends, who are between the ages of 20 and 23, will divorce before they're 40, on my opinion. I think a number of us see the mistakes these couples are making (I agree...people are more into the emotional part of the marriage than reality) we don't want to emulate them. And I suppose maturity plays a part, as well. I believe I'm not mature enough to handle such responsibilities, nor do I have the desire.
I would like to make sure I've accomplished a number of things I want in life before I get married...and to be honest, I would like to marry someone who can wait a while before we have kids. Ha, good luck to me, I guess. | |
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| Why men (and some women) do not want to marry?
Posted: 6/19/2008 12:27:36 AM | I guess we are just afraid to commit. All good things in life require commitment, time and effort. When there is a huge disparity in what we and the other person is willing to put in a relationship, marriage is not a choice.
However, to go into any relationship expecting the worst is not healthy either. It is hard to find the middle ground of stepping up to the plate with your eyes open and just withdrawing due to plain cynism.
A social contract simply bolsters a serious commitment made by two consenting adults. I agree that if in doubt, better not to marry at all. Marriage makes sense when you find a good person, are willing to work hard, believe in compassion and patience and simply enjoy stability in a relationship. | |
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| Why men (and some women) do not want to marry?
Posted: 6/19/2008 12:45:13 AM | | Borntoski~ are you single or divorced? Just curious because of all your talk of being "burned", etc. The actual stats show that women with kids do worse financially after divorce, a majority of the time. Their monthly income plummets, while the man's standard of living (without the kids) typically rises. You actually made some really good points in your post, aside from that and your statement that most women just don't get it. Sorry but that's another issue you're wrong about. | |
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| Why men (and some women) do not want to marry?
Posted: 6/19/2008 2:08:52 AM |
The actual stats show that women with kids do worse financially after divorce, a majority of the time. Their monthly income plummets, while the man's standard of living (without the kids) typically rises.
Ali, I love you but I'd be VERY careful where you're getting those stats from. Most of those 'stats' are from studies that done by certain companies that first do the studies so that states can create child support guidelines, and THEN turn around and contract to the same to collect the child support for the state for a % of the take. PSI (Policy Studies International) Is infamous for this. The practice itself is unethical and a conflict of interst.
Also, a lot of those studies intentionally disregard ANY support from the NCP (non-custodial parent), and credit the NCP with the child support they do pay as income, and ONLY deal with Custodial Parents that are within a year or two of seperation or divorce (Historicly the WORST time for all parties involved), and then extrapolate the skewed data over a lifetime.
I could VERY easily pull a 'Nik" on this topic. | |
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| Why men (and some women) do not want to marry?
Posted: 6/19/2008 12:05:22 PM | Veronica, sorry, but you are quoting propaganda from the 1960's. Times have changed. Men are getting f__ed in the divorce courts these days. Not only that, but because of these slanted laws, men have had to change the way they act, tip toeing around their wife in fear she will leave. The current divorce laws have men literally enslaved.
70% of divorces are currently instigated by women. I ask every divorcee that I date why she is divorced. So far not a single one of them has said because of infidelity, abuse, intense fighting or anything like that. I get flimsy answers like "we grew apart" or "I married too young", bla bla bla, which to my ears are just another way of saying "I got bored with the relationship and wanted something new".
I am really sorry for you if you had the opposite experience, there are terrible situations on both sides, but the current statistics are what they are.
No, I have never been married or burned. Just viewing what is happening.
But I don't really want to get into another argument on this site about whether or not men are getting burned in the divorce courts. That was not my point.
My point is that people in this country no longer believe in the institution of marriage, and that is why they aren't getting married. The secondary point is to explain why it is that there are lots of men saying DON'T GET MARRIED and lots of women saying "why don't men want to get married?". isn't it obvious to you? Men are wising up.
Whoever said that marriage was created for property rights, I don't agree with that. marriage has been around a very long time and many people with no property at all have been getting married for that entire time. Yes, it was distorted at times to include that ugly twist. That was not the original intent as far as I'm concerned. But anyway, you have to look at things socialogically in terms of why certain things exist for the human race. Why do humans put in place certain kinds of traditions. We have done it for survival. At some point in the past, women needed a man to take care of them. Marriage joined them in a contract such that the man would be responsible to take care of his wife and children. You have to go really really really far back to to the cave man days to get to the point that men and women only joined together for a few years, long enough to have a young kid, get sick of each other after a few years and move on to the next. All of the different cultures in the world have different twists on the marriage theme, but it all amounts to the same thing.....a tradition to get man and women to stay together, take care of each other, raise their kids properly and have a family. The family unit is the platform upon which all civilized societies are based. Without strong families, any society will destroy itself within a few generations. Talking about property rights, bla bla bla..... These things are what the human race has done to survive more effectively and become the civilized race that we sometimes are. At some subconcious level, marriage is about keeping the families together. Nothing else. | |
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