| The PROTEIN Myth
Posted: 6/4/2008 9:41:57 AM |
Who said I don't like to work out? Eating huge amounts of animal protein is hard on your kidneys healthy or not.
sometimes sore enough that walking up or down stairs can be hazardous, but luckily I routinely eat a lot of protein so that doesn't happen often.
I really hope you're kidding, I never heard such a thing. If you warm up properly you shouldn't be sore. How much of the protein you eat actually is digested and utilized? Chorella is over 60% protein and easily digested compared to meat. Someone who cries about being sore and afraid to get hurt gosh why do you even workout then?
Look at Bruce Lee he didn't eat much meat yet many body builders envyed him. So much for the protein myth :P
I never said people who don't eat large amounts of protein don't workout, I said they don't LOOK like they workout, and since you don't have a picture up, you can pretty much say you are as big as you want to and I can't argue about it, but if you look at the links that Satx posted one of them has links to people who are vegans and weightlifters, Stan Price, apparently a world record bench presser, but you can't find any information about him on the internet other than he is a vegan, Mike Mahler who as a strength trainer and coach has benched over 315lbs! GASP! THAT'S HUGE! And they show another body builder who nobody has ever heard of yet is touted as "America's most recognized vegan bodybuilder"
Just for your own peace of mind TheSource, if you aren't sore after working out, then you aren't working out hard, and that may be fine for you, but when you have 5 or 6 hundred pounds on the bar and the only thing running through your head is lifting that so you can get more weight on next time. | |
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| The PROTEIN Myth
Posted: 6/4/2008 12:51:04 PM | Holy freakin christ man...you must be built like a horse...the strongest guy I know, who is also your height, benchs about 310lbs and he's built, but more like body builder..I've never paid attention to power lifting but just now did a google and see some guys press 1000 friggen pounds...thats insane.
I only bench a little over 400 man, but deadlift and squat are in the 5-600 range, weirdly I seem to be stronger and bigger than the world renowned vegan strength trainers and bodybuilders and this is just my hobby, not my job.
Go protein. | |
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| The PROTEIN Myth
Posted: 6/4/2008 11:49:37 PM |
Look at Bruce Lee he didn't eat much meat yet many body builders envyed him. So much for the protein myth
Actually Bruce Lee drank a couple "protein shakes" every day, including ingredients such as protein powder and raw eggs. The recipe can be found in "The Art of Expressing the Human Body" by Bruce Lee and John Little.
He also took anabolic steroids to maintain his obsessive-compulsive training lifestyle.
Don't just rattle off a comment like that without doing your homework first.
A 5' 7", slightly-built Asian man doesn't achieve 50-rep one-arm chin-ups just eating "a little meat", he achieves it on a high-calorie, high-protein diet with regular injections of artificial hormones.
As for the rest of the posts in this thread, I'm not even going to bother reading them.
There are more than enough studies showing the superiority of high-protein diets for strength trainers and athletes that the "debate" is essentially over. Just ignore the PETA-propaganda freaks and enjoy the incredible quality of life that comes with a healthy, athletic lifestyle, not the vegan hippiedom which passes itself off as "health".
- Christopher93 | |
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| The PROTEIN Myth
Posted: 6/4/2008 11:56:41 PM |
I seem to be stronger and bigger than the world renowned vegan strength trainers and bodybuilders and this is just my hobby, not my job.
Go protein.
Okay I lied. I actually read some of the posts in this thread and this one is SPOT ON!!!
Check out "www.vegetarianbodybuilder.com" and you'll see not only is this "bodybuilder" a light-weight, but his top "vegetarian" protein sources are:
- Whey powder
- Egg whites
- Cottage cheese
Ha!
So the only difference between his diet and a "conventional" bodybuilder is the lack of chicken breasts and lean steaks.
Looks like even the "veg" bodybuilders agree: Go protein!
- Christopher93 | |
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| The PROTEIN Myth
Posted: 6/4/2008 11:59:12 PM |
Mike Mahler who as a strength trainer and coach has benched over 315lbs! GASP! THAT'S HUGE!
Even in his own articles he talks about his diet including large amounts of supplemental vegetable protein. Soy and pea protein powders in particular.
Mike Mahler even agrees: go protein!
- Christopher93 | |
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| The PROTEIN Myth
Posted: 6/5/2008 12:48:49 AM | I agree with what someone above said about Bruce Lee, he was so strong because he was on steroids.
And the guys benching 1000 pounds are only doing it because of special bench shirts, without those shirts, the record is 700 something pounds doing what is called a raw bench press. Its almost a sure bet that those guys lifting that kind of weight are on steroids too(noting that there are ways to fool drug tests that people get by with).
Here is a link
http://www.criticalbench.com/benchrecords.htm
In the video on that link, the spotter has some massive arms! Wish I had arms like that.  | |
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| The PROTEIN Myth
Posted: 6/8/2008 11:18:13 AM | Here's what i know on the subject.
Your body requires Amino acids which it breaks down easily from proteins. Unlike fat, your body can't store amino acids in any active way, so when you consume lean proteins they stay in your system roughly every 3 hours. After that period if you do not consume more then your body goes after your existing muscle mass and breaks that down for the acids.
This is why a lot of fitness experts say to eat 6 times a day in smaller portions. Doing so will prevent your body from going after your muscle mass which helps keep your metabolic rate up.
The problem with this thread seems to be the Myth comes with certain criterias, and the second you say "well its true if the following conditions are applied" then that means the myth will be true for some people and not for others. Bodybuilders will undoubtably require more protein vs "the average person" because they're doing more then what the average person is.
Finally, Bruce lee was only reveared because how low his body fat percentage was (to the point he died due to it, btw), which is something pretty much anyone who is trying to be fit can relate to, wether they know it or not. Using him as an example for a nation of people not only a stupid argument but one that is pretty unrelated to the thread. | |
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| The PROTEIN Myth
Posted: 6/9/2008 8:30:05 PM | | 1g/lb of body weight for maintenance, and 1.5-2g/lb body weight for increasing your Muscle, depending on how hardcore you want to go. And yes, your body can only process and use so much protein a day -- which is why you can ingest less if you're sedentary or the 'weekend warrior' gym person. But, for people that work out 4-6 days a week, and they do high-intensity workouts, then they need more protein intake...and it WILL get used. The more you break down your muscles, the more protein/amino acids they need to rebuild. This is where the 1g/lb stuff comes in. If you're just wanting to maintain where you are, then sure...1g/lb is sufficient to maintain what muscle you have. But, if you want to get stronger and/or bigger, you need to ingest more of the building blocks for muscle tissue generation (i.e., PROTEIN and Amino Acids...which is what protein breaks down into) to repair what you have and add to it so you can sustain that higher performance level or even go higher. Muscle and Fitness just did an article on protein ingestion a couple of issues back...I can try and find it if you'd like. | |
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| The PROTEIN Myth
Posted: 6/9/2008 9:23:41 PM | It would be very hard to get super strong or big off of 60g of protein a day. You would have to eat tremendous amounts of carbs (good luck with your blood sugar there) to spare the protein.
Its all about balance. .8-1 gram per pound of bodyweight isn't a lot of calories to begin with.
Get the rest from your carbs and fats and you will be set. | |
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| The PROTEIN Myth
Posted: 6/11/2008 10:30:25 AM | Hmmm interesting thread,
One things i can say about animal protein is that its leeches out calcium from your bones from the acid effect that happends when your body has to much protein. Your body can store fat and it can store carbs but the one thing it cannot store is protein.
Once you go over what your body needs then it causes your body to release calcium from your body through your urine.
Now if you ppl believe you need to eat eggs and steak and chicken, take a look at the muscle on a horse or a bull. They do not need to eat meat to get those types of muscles. They have much more body mass then we do and still do not require the need to eat those foods. Sit and think about it for min. They build it from eating veggies only. Which have the protein our bodies need. | |
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| The PROTEIN Myth
Posted: 6/11/2008 10:41:28 AM |
Now if you ppl believe you need to eat eggs and steak and chicken, take a look at the muscle on a horse or a bull. They do not need to eat meat to get those types of muscles. They have much more body mass then we do and still do not require the need to eat those foods. Sit and think about it for min. They build it from eating veggies only. Which have the protein our bodies need.
Do you have horse or bull DNA? Because I'm fairly sure I don't. | |
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| The PROTEIN Myth
Posted: 6/11/2008 10:45:39 AM | So what you are saying is that just like horses and bulls I should eat grass? Or being as how I am not a horse or a bull could it be that my body has a different digestive system than either of those animals and eating nothing but grass could actually not be a very good idea?
How about we look a little closer to home, and as I said before, just look at human vegetarians and you can plainly see that under similar conditions with the variable being vegetarian or omnivorous diet, the vegetarian will be smaller, always. | |
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| The PROTEIN Myth
Posted: 6/11/2008 11:29:08 AM | Well i was not saying nothing about DNA. I was just saying that they build all the mas they have and muscle from just eating veggies and no meat. Now what makes you think that because we eat meat it is what your body needs in order to build the average 180lbs body.
Now you did mention something about our bodies being nothing like that of a horse or a bull, good one there. I will say we are nothing like any of the animals that eat meat as well. Our bodies are a hell of alot closer to the animals that eat veggies then those that eat meat.
Lion - trap jaw only for up and down motion and not grinding
The stomach is alot shorter so they can get the meat in and out of the body as quickly as possible.
Teeth are a hell of alot bigger for ripping and tearing flesh (k9) and not our small k9 does not compare to any of these at all and if you do have huge K9 teeth then by all means go into a burger joint and ask for the rare burger no need to cook it lol
One more thing is the acid is about 20x more stronger then ours.
mountain lion - same as above
cougar - same as above
panther - same as above
Now look at a bull or even a cow...
both animals have moulders and a jaw for grinding their foods ....hmm now what other mammal has that kinda of setup...think about it. Our stomachs is as long or just a bit longer. | |
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| The PROTEIN Myth
Posted: 6/11/2008 12:25:55 PM | "Now if you ppl believe you need to eat eggs and steak and chicken, take a look at the muscle on a horse or a bull. They do not need to eat meat to get those types of muscles. They have much more body mass then we do and still do not require the need to eat those foods. Sit and think about it for min. They build it from eating veggies only. Which have the protein our bodies need."
A friend of mine once told me something similar. He cited Gorillas as an example, saying they are very similar to humans and ate mostly plants, yet are still incredibly strong. Would they be even stronger if they had more protein in their diet? I don't know. Would be interesting though to see how strong a gorilla could get if he worked out for years with weights though. | |
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| The PROTEIN Myth
Posted: 6/11/2008 2:07:51 PM | | Will someone tell me what chorella is please, where do i get that from???? is it vegeatarian?? | |
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| The PROTEIN Myth
Posted: 6/11/2008 2:31:30 PM | Phoebus2k9 you are picking and choosing the similarities between Us and herbivores and ignoring the differences. Both bulls and horses have fermenting fats, in fact almost all herbivores do, humans don't. Sure we have a longer digestive system than carnivores, but nobody ever said we were carnivores but length isn't really all that good of an indicator of diet, the relative number of crypts and cell types is a much better clue as to what we are, and in that regard we fall pretty much in the middle between carnivore and herbivore.
We can pretty much throw out the whole "herbivores have small canines and incisors and carnivores have large ones" by simply looking at great apes, because if teeth are the great indicator then great apes should be tearing up all other animals and eating them with great gusto.
But we could also say that since we as humans have large brains then we are much more likely to be carnivorous being as how animals that eat a meatless diet have much smaller brains than those that eat meat.
I'm just sayin'. | |
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| The PROTEIN Myth
Posted: 6/11/2008 3:06:23 PM | re: msg 41
Here is some info on Chlorella
http://www.regenerativenutrition.com/content.asp?id=25 | |
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| The PROTEIN Myth
Posted: 6/11/2008 3:45:24 PM | | When was the last time you saw a stacked vegitarian who wasn't supplimenting with manmade high protein sources (i.e foods that weren't available 10000 years ago) ? /thread. | |
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| The PROTEIN Myth
Posted: 6/12/2008 12:20:06 PM | There are plenty of stacked ones out there. MAny bodybuilders dont eat meat. This thing ppl think that you have to eat meat to survive is a bunch of BS. Sure many people think you cannot get the proper nutrients needed from eating it then why am i perfectly healthy ? i do know eat meat nor will i ever. Im 235lbs 6'2 and i dont have any problems what so ever. As a matter of fact i dont remember the last time i had gotten sick or gotten any kind of flu. As well i dont get flu shots either nor do i take any pills of any sort.
I have long hair ...strong nails and teeth. So if this was true that i dont get my nutrients from eating veggies then im living proof. all i eat is fruit and veggies and brown rice. I dont over cook my veggies .. cook lightly so i dont kill the nutrients in the veggies that my body needs.
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| The PROTEIN Myth
Posted: 6/12/2008 2:07:45 PM | Well you can sure say that there are stacked vegetarians out there, and that many bodybuilders don't eat meat, but do you have any examples? Or is it like me saying that there are all kinds of people that can fly through the power of their minds?
I have seen pictures of vegetarian and vegan bodybuilders, they are small, without fail they are small, they may be healthy, as nobody(that I noticed) ever said you can't get proper nutrients through a vegetarian lifestyle, its just that you can't get enough to become big, and no offense but 235 at 6'2" is not big.
I do eat meat and I always will . I'm 210lbs 5'6" and i don't have any problems what so ever. As a matter of fact i don't remember the last time i had gotten sick or gotten any kind of flu. As well i don't get flu shots either but I do take pills, but not medication, just various supplements to improve my results and recovery from weightlifting.
Just to reiterate, you don't need meat to be healthy, but until I see a convincing number of people(more than 1) who became big while being on a vegetarian protein restricted diet, then I will stand by my statement that to get large amounts of muscle, you need large amounts of dead animal. | |
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| The PROTEIN Myth
Posted: 6/12/2008 2:25:22 PM | "235 at 6'2" is not big."
Wasn't Arnold only 6'1" and 245 in his peak years?
Anybody think that wasn't "big"? 
If vegetarian bodybuilders are not as bulked up as non-vegetarian bbs', it's probably not vegetarian vs carnivore, but non-drug vs drug. | |
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| The PROTEIN Myth
Posted: 6/12/2008 2:44:50 PM | "235 at 6'2" is not big."
Wasn't Arnold only 6'1" and 245 in his peak years?
Anybody think that wasn't "big"?
If vegetarian bodybuilders are not as bulked up as non-vegetarian bbs', it's probably not vegetarian vs carnivore, but non-drug vs drug.
Yeah that would have been his stage weight, so 245 at like 4-6% bodyfat, and the person in question is nowhere near those numbers.
And as far as the drug thing is concerned, in my opinion, veggie and meat eating bodybuilders are both going to be using drugs whether they claim to be natural or not, but the easiest way to compare is just go to google images, look up vegan bodybuilders then look up natural bodybuilders, you should be able to notice a difference. | |
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| The PROTEIN Myth
Posted: 6/12/2008 2:59:27 PM | "look up vegan bodybuilders then look up natural bodybuilders, you should be able to notice a difference."
nutrition is super complex.
Comparing pics, then saying plant-eater bb's can't bulk up like meat-eater bb's because they don't eat meat is simply not scientific. Any evidence beyond pics? Any A vs B studies?
plant-eating bb's hit a bulk ceiling, even drugged up, because they don't eat meat? I'm not convinced. | |
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| The PROTEIN Myth
Posted: 6/12/2008 4:13:18 PM | I don't know of any studies as scientists don't generally spend a whole lot of time on the subject of bodybuilders, but honestly, what is a study going to tell you that pictures won't? Either every vegan bodybuilder has horrible contest prep, or the worst genetics ever, or possibly what they eat (or don't eat) is hindering their growth.
If every corvette I see is going faster than my truck can go, I don't need a study to tell me that my truck is slower than a corvette. | |
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