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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/27/2008 6:48:02 PM | She wasn't twisting, she was untwisting.
I think Middle America is more inclined to help the needy... including girls who get pregnant. Everyone knows that the Republicans are more representative of Middle America.
I did not know this. I did not know that "middle America" were both pro life and pro choice. I did not know that they were both against social programs yet happily 'help the needy'.
It's known these are the folks who pay the taxes to support the Social Programs which the Democrats want to shove down our throats instead of cleaning up Welfare and making People work for a living.
So Clinton's Welfare to Work was not an attempt to clean up welfare? He was a democrat by the way. | |
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/28/2008 6:43:58 AM | I actually consider myself part of "middle america", being that I was born and raised in the south. I feel that many different people make up all "types". I personally do tend to lean toward the conservative side of things, however, I still support abortion. The reason I support abortion is not because I feel that children should be murdered, however, a woman has a right to do with her body as she chooses and in my eyes..this is part of women having rights. I hold very strong the rights of women and do not join in with my more times to none conservative counterparts. Another thing...I support war and our military, however, I support the rights of the gay community. I feel no one is "typical" anything anymore.
In my eyes, I"m basically a patriotic liberal. I know of many democrats who do not support abortion, I know of republicans who DO support abortion. No one is typical.
Referenceing the Clinton's Welfare to Work program.......this did not have the "ummmph"
which was needed in encouraging states to give training skills. In fact, the program started in 1997 and ended in 2004. If it were so successful, why did it end?
Many states could not meet the requirements of providing childcare and transportation. Clinton had a great idea but there was not enough planning which went into this plan, due to the obvious problems with this program, Bush came into office in 2000 and wanted to institute his "No child left behind" program, while nixing the Welfare to Work program, reason why? It wasn't working anyways.
I personally want a president in office who is going to address the issues of welfare as compared to merely giving handouts. The poor do need assistance, but they also need programs and tools to enable them to get out of the system. There is alot of abuse within our system, I want it addressed not only by people who are applying and are on welfare but also the abuse which occurs within the system as well, such as employees, etc... I do not feel Obama has any plan for this worth mentioning. He has alot of "hoopla" he is spewing, but no true plan.
McCain believes that people who are on welfare and able to work should work 40 hrs a week with traning programs. He supports increased funding for child care programs. He supports housing assisted for the poor. Here are some other things which he supports.
# Support housing assistance for welfare recipients
# Provide homeless families with apartment vouchers they can use to supplement the cost of an apartment
# Continue to give states and local governments responsibility for welfare programs through block grants
# Maintain current welfare-to-work requirements in order for states to qualify for block grants
# Require that unwed teenage mothers live with a parent or guardian (if possible) and attend school to receive benefits
# Restore food stamp programs to legal immigrants
# Transfer homeless housing programs to states through block grants
# Provide continued Medicaid benefits for those welfare recipients who have moved from welfare to work
# Provide federal assistance to low-income job applicants for transportation to jobs at some distance.
http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/John_McCain_Welfare_+_Poverty.htm
Compared to what Obama is promising, things such as 20 "promise neighborhoods", etc...is absolutely ridiculous. Tackling welfare and poverty should not be limited to
20 neighborhoods, it should be tackled nationwide. I am wondering if Obama plans on any of these supposed "promise neighborhoods" going into any white communities? More than likely no!
This is what Obama is quoted as saying and it outright made me chuckle,,I love the way he is trying to sound as if he had it so hard growing up at the relm of the evil ghostly figures. what a crock!
Exorcise the ghostly figure that haunts black dreams
If the language, the humor, the stories of ordinary people were the stuff out of which families, communities, economies would have to be built, then I couldn't separate that strength from the hurt and distortions that lingered around us. And it was the implications of that fact, I realized, that had most disturbed me. The stories that I had been hearing from the leadership, all the records of courage and sacrifice and overcoming of great odds, hadn't simply arisen from struggles with pestilence or drought, or mere poverty. They had arisen out of a very particular experience with hate. That hate hadn't gone away; it formed a counter-narrative buried deep within each person and at the center of which stood white people-some cruel, some ignorant, sometimes a single face, sometimes just a faceless image of a system claiming power over our lives. I had to ask myself whether the bonds of community could be restored without collectively exorcising that ghostly figure that haunted black dreams.
Obama was so hated by white people that he was admitted into Harvard. WOw,,,what racist pigs at harvard! Don't forget the evil ghostly figures in Illinois who elected him. Obama forgets that there is ignorance within all races, including his own. Poor Obama.
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/28/2008 7:29:44 AM | nona37: I totally agree with every word you've said.
This is what Obama is quoted as saying and it outright made me chuckle,,I love the way he is trying to sound as if he had it so hard growing up at the realm of the evil ghostly figures. what a crock! Obama was so hated by white people that he was admitted into Harvard. WOw,,,what racist pigs at harvard! Don't forget the evil ghostly figures in Illinois who elected him. Obama forgets that there is ignorance within all races, including his own. Poor Obama.
Obama forgets about most other races. Ive never heard the word 'black' so much in my entire life. I dont feel he will be fair to all races. (and before you torch me for this, Im Native American, but I cant/wont forget my Irish family) He threw his own grandmother under the bus. He threw the first punch, and he's pulled out the race card. Can democrates want someone in office so bad, they would risk the future of our safety to this maniac? He will tax us all into the poor house, so forget the cost of gas, we wont be driving cars. Hes going to send us back to the horse and buggy days.
:::disclaimer::: Im not an Obama hater nor am I mental, this is just my opinion.
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/28/2008 6:43:34 PM | Nona, the '20 Promise Neighborhood' program is just one of
Obama's Plan to combat poverty. Here are some others...
- Help Americans Grab a Hold of and Climb the Job Ladder
- Create a Green Jobs Corps
- Improve Transportation Access to Jobs
- Reduce Crime Recidivism by Providing Ex-Offender Supports
- Expand the Earned Income Tax Credit
- Create a Living Wage by increasing the minimum wage
- Provide tax relief - eliminate taxes for seniors making under
$50,000 per year
Brandie:
Thanks for the information on the 20 promise neighborhoods.
Help Americans Grab a Hold of and Climb the Job Ladder
This almost in my eyes sounds like coddling, we live in a capitalistic
society where it is up to each individual to swim or drown. I wonder
if what is being stated here is actually possible. In a capitalistic
society, EVERYONE can not make it. This idea of Obama's sounds very
much like socialism in my eyes. I've been a HUGE advocate of socialism
believe it or not. In socialist countries, one does not view
homelessness or unemployed, however, changing our capitalistic
system in my eyes is not a good move by Obama, he's advocating changing
a system which has been in place for centuries...our nation is capitalistic
NOT socialist and this will not fly by alot of people. In stating
this, I am a supporter of socialism, always have been, but to change
our nation into socialism? I do not see it happening.
Create a Green Jobs Corps
I do not agree with this. We already have americorp..which works,
therefore, if it's not broke, why fix it? I do feel we should
add to the Americorp program as compared to eliminating it and creating
another similar program. McCain does advocate for adding to the
americorp program.
Improve Transportation Access to Jobs
- Reduce Crime Recidivism by Providing Ex-Offender Supports
- Expand the Earned Income Tax Credit
- Create a Living Wage by increasing the minimum wage
I agree with all three of these. I especially like the idea of
a wage being labeled "A living wage" for we all know that the current
minimum wage is not enough to live off of and the federal minimum
wage is much lower believe it or not.
- Provide tax relief - eliminate taxes for seniors making
under $50,000 per year
I agree with this as well, but I would be interested in knowing
who he is going to add more taxes to in order to make this happen? If
it's the middle working class of our country, I would be against
this at all costs, for obvious reasons.
The 20 promise neighborhoods is a good concept as long as he is fair
in deciding which neighborhoods to place this within. I feel inner
city neighborhoods should definitely be in the equation but also
neighborhoods within the Appalachia's, as long as he is fair and just
and distributes these neighborhoods into different demographics, I
would be ok with this, but not if only one race no matter the race
which is chosen receives all the neighborhoods, I feel poverty
is experienced by many different demographics and these "neighborhoods"
should reflect as such.
I do feel that Obama makes some good points, now that I understand that he is advocating for more than just the "promise neighborhoods" (as long as he creates them for different demographics) combined with the other points, I will give him his due, however, McCain in my eyes is far more specific and advocating for more rights for our poverty stricken communities. | |
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/29/2008 8:23:33 AM | Do you think a Hillary supporter or McCain supporter did this...
Fla. vandals tag 60 cars with anti-Obama messages
From Associated Press
June 29, 2008 8:27 AM EDT
ORLANDO, Fla. - Vandals have spray-painted 60 city vehicles in Orlando, Fla., some with messages against Sen. Barack Obama.
The cars were parked across from city hall late Saturday night. Investigators say the culprits tagged notes such as "Obama smokes crack" and a racial epithet. They even left business cards on each vehicle. | |
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/29/2008 8:28:37 AM | I guess that's 60 votes Obama will not be getting!
I'm sure McCain will be getting his vehicle vandalized as well with epithets of ...."old fart" and "conservative *astard" let's not forget "Ghostly Figure" or even "whitey"!
These things happen and can happen to any political figure, heck...President Bush I do believe had a cake thrown in his face by a white person at that lol
No offense faith, but I can understand someone writing "Obama smokes crack", that would explain some of his international policies. | |
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/29/2008 8:31:16 AM | And people try to say that Obama is in no way Afro centric, thanks for the info that proves otherwise
Molefi Kete Asante describes "Afrocentricity" as a "systematic nationalism", however, could this mean, it focuses more on one's consciousness instead of the change of the black nation.
In my opinion, Obama is an elitist... elitism may be described as discrimination.
And discrimination is explained as the prejudicial treatment of a person or a group of people based on certain characteristics.
Let me ask this question. Isn't discrimination on grounds such as race or religion, generally illegal in most Western societies? I'm just sayin'.......
The cars were parked across from city hall late Saturday night. Investigators say the culprits tagged notes such as "Obama smokes crack" and a racial epithet. They even left business cards on each vehicle.Do you think a Hillary supporter or McCain supporter did this..
Racial epithet? What are you asking? I dont understand why race has to be the forefront. Why would this have to be done by a Hillary or McCain supporter? It could have been any fruitcake or wine-0 under a bridge. Obama isn't singled out in stuff like this.
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/29/2008 9:03:41 AM | I dont see why you guys attack "welfare" when expenditures are at all-time lows, its is now called TEMPORARY ASSISTANCE TO NEEDY FAMILIES, there is a lifetime limit of 5 years and many states, even "liberal" Massachusetts has a self-imposed 2 year limit, and all the features of welfare to work assistance are there, in force.......part time work or education or community services, day care, food stamps, etc. for the able-bodied.........and the "fraud" rate is nil.
You guys are a broken record, honestly........if its a pet peeve, wake up, its 2008, these programs are like 12 years old ...old news!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did you just want to spread LIES, is that it? Think there are enough gullible people out there to belive there are so many living high off the hog?
IT IS THE PENTAGON THAT HAS BEEN SQUEEZING US, FOLKS. NOT TEENAGED MOMS. HOW DELUDED CAN YOU POSSIBLY GET, ANYWAY????
By the way:
# Support housing assistance for welfare recipients
# Provide homeless families with apartment vouchers they can use to supplement the cost of an apartment
# Continue to give states and local governments responsibility for welfare programs through block grants
# Maintain current welfare-to-work requirements in order for states to qualify for block grants
# Require that unwed teenage mothers live with a parent or guardian (if possible) and attend school to receive benefits
# Restore food stamp programs to legal immigrants
# Transfer homeless housing programs to states through block grants
# Provide continued Medicaid benefits for those welfare recipients who have moved from welfare to work
# Provide federal assistance to low-income job applicants for transportation to jobs at some distance.
I am not sure about the legal immigrant thing, but I do believe that all of these are currently in force under TANF or being done with state funds with, I believe, the one exception being harassing teenaged mothers .........so, essentially, McCain's "program" is to leave the current status unchanged, which means:
He HAS NO PROGRAM.
Incidentally, converting IV-A to TANF in the Clinton administration happened on his watch, but it was really Jack Kemp and Bob Dole who forced the issues at the time and kept Clinton to his promise to "change welfare as we know it". A nice example of democracy in action.
And Nona, really, where on earth do you see "socialism" in any of Obama's programs? Do you brake for unicorns, too?
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/29/2008 9:15:51 AM | In MY opinion, I'm not seeing it as an 'attack'. And belittling people for their opinions isn't going to work as a deterrent to the problem..
Its an opinion and why we feel how we feel. I'm all for welfare. I just don't want it so freely handed out. I don't want the help to be grossly abused. I see this all the time. That's MY opinion. My mother raised six kids, by herself without child support of any kind. WITHOUT the program we now call 'welfare'. She had two jobs and we used a wagon to take our dirty laundry to the washateria, because we didnt have a car. Two to Five years of help would have been heaven. and where did we get money for the washateria you may ask.. I started working when I was 10 to help bring in money.
For example: I've seen women draped in jewels buying shredded cheese at three times the price of ordinary cheese, whip out food stamps as they laugh all the way to their cadillac.. I want the people getting the help to be helping themselves to better themselves, not helping themselves to free money.
:::disclaimer::: This is just my opinion on true facts, not an attack. So dont think youre free to call me names or attack me. Its just my opinion on an online forum debate. | |
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/29/2008 9:26:39 AM | Redwine, you saw the woman draped in jewels buying luxury items with food stamps laughing all the way to her Cadillac, too, eh? Funny, she DO get around, don't she?
Let's see, she was seen with gold chains around her neck driving a Mercedes and apparantly she upgrade to a Humvee a couple of years ago...
Let me guess........she was black, right?
My, that lady do get around.
Either that or........certain people are LIARS.  | |
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/29/2008 9:33:41 AM | I live down the road from a tennis club.......& saw an a gent pull into a handicap space in his Lincoln @ the nearby market, bounding out of his car STILL IN HIS TENNIS WHITES!
Probably means we should eliminate all those pesky handicap concessions we pay for @ public buildings since that system is being abused by a few bad apples. I mean, if they just work a little harder they can drag themselves up the stairs all the other people use. Heck, we could just train them to be really good @ pull-ups & push-ups!
Or maybe we could just be a little more diligent as to whom, exactly, qualifies for which type of assistance? | |
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/29/2008 9:38:23 AM | Reddwine, of course I am smiling , "bucko".
""The term “welfare queen” comes from Ronald Reagan when he ran for president in 1976. He told the story of a black woman who made $150,000 from gaming welfare. She drove a Cadillac, he informed us.
The press tried to find this woman. They wanted to put her on the evening news. They never found her. Reagan had made it up. Yet the idea stuck - because it is a convenient lie for well-to-do whites to believe.""
Of course, Reddwine, they couldnt find her.....after you sited her, too....because she traded that big, old Cadillac in for a brand new Humvee, right?
Why dont you educate yourself, here are some readings. Oh, and when you look n the mirror to powder your nose the next time, see if it isnt a little longer........:-)
http://www.wiretapmag.org/stories/9435/ | |
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/29/2008 9:58:38 AM | Reagan? What? Your saying that doesn't even make sense. Its not even logical.
If an inflammatory statement is made along with those logical in a discussion, the inflammatory will likely be addressed first.
Can we show and maintain a level of class and respect please? This is something I personally experienced.
Your 'assuming' this is a fabrication on MY part, is showing your level of education. It doesn't even make sense you would say that. Youre way in left field and this is the last I will respond to you about this. I see it as going no where but from bad to worse.
I was there, bucko. I was standing behind those women. I saw this first hand and its a fact. I dont give a crap what kind of story Reagan put out there. Why in the world would I lie about seeing such a thing?? I would have to be out of my mind.
You have no idea what youre talking about. Ive never heard Reagans 'story'. And your pulling something from the air like that is showing ignorance on your part. How can you KNOW what I experienced isnt fact? or have you heard the rumor, democrates dont think any kind of experience counts?
And of course you know what you've said is very inflammatory. Lets keep this friendly.
Oh yeah, Im smiling too. Id suggest you be very careful what you put in print knowing the consequences could get somewhat messy in the end, my friend. Lets keep this on topic. Its not about me. | |
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/29/2008 10:14:09 AM | Let's see.....
Obama is the one who made the statement that the Republicans and Others will use Obama's being Black... Obama's inexperience,, ...Obama's funny name... 'Black, Inexperience, Funny Name' are direct quotes from Obama.
Since Obama and Camp are the ones who keep bringing up these issues...
Could it be that Obama's Camp did the damage to the cars to make it seem like either the Repubs. or Clinton camp did? To me that is a real real scenario.
But, I'm basing that possibility on things I experienced first hand in the streets of AL and NJ/NY as an undercover officer and swat. You know... no 'internet citation' to reference or anything... just experience. | |
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/29/2008 10:20:37 AM | Do you think a Hillary supporter or McCain supporter did this
Could have been any of the three...Hillary, McCain or The obama supporters... maybe even just some wackjobs that think tearing up stuff is a good time. Anyone could have done it.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/O/OBAMA_VANDALISM?SITE=CODER&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
They even left business cards on the vehicles that disparage both the Illinois senator and his rival, Republican John McCain. The cards voice support for Sen. Hillary Clinton, Obama's former opponent.
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/29/2008 10:45:40 AM |
You know... no 'internet citation' to reference or anything... just experience.
That's fine....but anecdotal evidence doesn't prove anything to another point of view.
Refuting researched findings w/ such means nothing, as logical pitfalls such hueristic availibility & others, make the 'conclusion' by such evidence applicable only to your personal mindset/situation. | |
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/29/2008 11:10:01 AM | I'm just saying that 'Citations' are, in a lot of case, just another 'opinion'. Sometimes hard core facts are derived from citations...but,.. too many times citations are splashed with someone else's take on things. Look at the Holocaust... there are 'documents' trying to say it never happened.
Anyway, my pov on this case is taken from experience...nothing more or less.
I don't trust any of the Camps... Obama, Clinton or McCain from not partaking in things to discredit the others.
It just seems really odd that 'calling cards' would be left to direct it to one camp or the other. If I was investigating the situation, I would give all factors equal consideration. It could be a whole host of scenarios. It just seemed that not much attention was being provided towards the Obama camp and/or supporters for what took place.
Anyway,... there will be some DNA or other clear cut evidence to be found..eventually.
With all the above stated... it is correct that
anecdotal evidence doesn't prove anything to another point of view ... because we all are pretty much set in our views anyway. | |
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/29/2008 11:25:26 AM | Agreed.......politics may create strange bedfellows, but thoroughly reasearched 'facts' rarely make it to the party.
Defacing personal property doesn't sound like a very well planned campaign strategy, so I'd guess it would be the work of some misguided knucledraggers (which exist in support of all camps), rather than a sanctioned act by campaign staffers. | |
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_JAFO_
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Joined: 11/9/2007
Msg: 525 | |
| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/29/2008 12:45:58 PM | ""The term “welfare queen” comes from Ronald Reagan when he ran for president in 1976. He told the story of a black woman who made $150,000 from gaming welfare. She drove a Cadillac, he informed us.
I remember when that happened. I even remember exactly WHERE I was when I read it in the newspaper because I was so shocked. The details of how she was scamming multiple states was described in detail in the newspaper.
But the date wasn't 1976. It was closer to circa 1980 | |
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