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Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts      Mod Threads Home login  
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 Author Thread: Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts [CLOSED Thread]
 TheStefano

Joined: 6/15/2008
Msg: 651
Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/4/2008 7:25:06 AM
Faith2565, sorry but we are going to have to feel the pain on the price of gas for a while. It will hurt as individuals, but it seems to be stimulating the auto makers to do what they should have been doing for a long time now, so we will all benefit in time.

I drive a Volvo, I am not happy with the mileage. With all the big monsters on the road around me, though, I like its steel doors and the protection but with less of them, I will sell it for something with better mileage.

Have you thought about a different car? Toyotas get 35mpg, for me that would cut the price of gas in half.
 Nona37

Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 652
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History
Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/4/2008 7:35:49 AM

Wealth for a very few has grown enormously under Bush and
even before, while the middle class has seriously lost ground.
That's a simple fact,the numbers are there, and it is due in part
to tax breaks.


I have to agree with you there but I never voted for Bush :)


And as far as McCain's support of the current TANF, you
presented your post as if they were new ideas and there werent
any, you described most of what is already in place ........and by
the way, the new welfare was a major bipartisan acheivement,
which shows what this country can do when people across the aisles
get off their ass and actually do some legislating.... so I felt
obliged to point that out.


If one delves deeper one can view new advocation's which McCain is
proposing, but it's obvious McCain wants to build upon the current
system as well, and one can admit he wants to primarily build
upon what we have, which in my eyes, makes good economic sense as
compared to more expensive ventures of instituting other plans which
will not more than likely work anyways, it failed for Clinton and
it failed for Bush. McCain obviously does not want to fail.


and by the way, the new welfare was a major bipartisan
acheivement, which shows what this country can do when people
across the aisles get off their ass and actually do some
legislating.... so I felt obliged to point that out.


If you are referring to the Welfare to Work program, it did NOT
work. Reason being was the politics involved as well as not enough
planning for childcare/transportation costs and ways to create funds
for this, it didn't work therefore, it's obvious the administration
during that era did not get up off THEIR asses to truly make it
work.
 Outdoor2

Joined: 4/1/2006
Msg: 653
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History
Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/4/2008 9:11:53 AM
Nona37:
I think you're missing my entire point.

The oil companies have leased 10's of millions of acre of continental US land.

They have permission to drill for oil and gas.

They are not drilling.

Why? Is there not enough oil there? Is there lots, but extraction too expensive? Are they waiting for $180...$200 a barrel oil to make it economically feasible? Are these all moot questions simply because at $3-$4 rent per acre they claim it as an asset to attract investors?

The answers to these questions (and surely many more) need to be answered before one more acre is leased...on, or off-shore.


We can argue about what Obama meant all day...it doesn't matter.

Read....It doesn't matter what Obama says....I disagree.
 Nona37

Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 654
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History
Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/4/2008 9:47:40 AM
The answers to these questions (and surely many more) need to be answered before one more acre is leased...on, or off-shore.


Now I get your point. Yes, I agree with you that we have NOT been drilling, but as I stated earlier, we need to obviously, at least until we come up with an alternate fuel. I would state in my opinion the reason for not drilling domestically is PURE greed! In the past our country's mentality has been....why use OURS when we can use THEIRS! Combine this with obvious politics and the outcome is what we are experiencing now. Thanks for making your point more clear....you were right...I was bypassing what you were trying to state.
 Reddwine

Joined: 4/15/2006
Msg: 655
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History
Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/4/2008 10:14:06 AM
......how hard is it to spell Redd or Reddwine correctly? Is this the new and hip way to insult someone these days when they dont agree with you? OR are you telling me to Read what you have to say?
 teachpeace

Joined: 9/19/2007
Msg: 656
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History
Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/4/2008 10:20:01 AM
We haven't (at least recently anyway) factored into this equation that the US is currently EXporting oil cuz....you know.....dem dere oil companies get higher prices from China. I think when the word "Read" precedes a sentence I think it's meant to infer "this is a translation or a paraphrasing." At least when I turned my head to the side and read it with one eye I think that's what it meant? I'm dreadfully blonde tho......thank GOD for Republicans to argue with....
Obama....always RIGHT LOL '08
 Reddwine

Joined: 4/15/2006
Msg: 657
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History
Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/4/2008 10:31:52 AM
................
 Kaos86

Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 658
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Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/4/2008 10:50:33 AM

Obama....always RIGHT LOL '08


If Obama continues his flip flops and movement toward the center it wont be long before he is right.

"RIGHT WING" that is.
 jedi4

Joined: 4/3/2008
Msg: 659
Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/4/2008 11:10:37 AM

If Obama continues his flip flops and movement toward the center it wont be long before he is right.


What flip flop? Post some examples

Atleast he not tied to Oil companies like republicans are..

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/03/world/middleeast/03kurdistan.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin


..
 faith2565

Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 660
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History
Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/4/2008 12:25:28 PM
Stefano,

My ranting is really for those that truly can not afford the gas. I feel safe in may car (Grand Marquis) with my grandson in the back. Now, I look like all of the old people in my neighborhood. I call myself the pimpin grandma.

But, yes I use to have a 00 Toyota, but I traded in for an 03 Saturn. Both of those cars were great, and excellent on gas, then I had a serious accident and my Saturn was never the same.

It fell apart on I-10 on my way to work; I thank God I was safe. I really wanted a small benz, but I have credit issues due to my kids (still paying for sons SUV , bought him in high school and helping the other son in Africa, etc.). You have to remember I am single, but proud.

I will have to suffer the gas prices. But, to be honest, God answered a prayer. I had to finally rest my Saturn and purchase a new car. I prayed to find a decent car within a certain budget. God blessed me.

I can pay for my gas, just need to cut other expenses (hair, nails, lashes, gym, entertainment, yard, over 100 channels on cable and nothing to watch, etc.) but my heart really goes out to all of the Americans that can not. I may owe in student loans, but God has truly blessed me beyond belief.

In Houston, on certain sides of town people are begging at the pumps for gas. They are starting to warn us that we may need to park our cars in the garage at night (people stealing gas). One of my neighbors swears someone stole some of her husbands gas one night.

But, the one that tops them all. I man stole the gas truck and held the 50 year old truck driver hostage for several hours as they circled the Houston area. The man begged for his life stating he did not own the truck.

Many of us are truly blessed. We can pay the co-pays and high insurance cost. Many of us can pay for the gas, just need to cut down on our lavish or somewhat lavish lifestyles.

But, my heart goes out for the working man. That is why I started as an Edward's fan.

When I step into my building and see the custodians, cooks, teachers aides and clerical staff having to choose not to have insurance in order to have a decent check that is a problem.

Single mother para-professionals live in government assisted housing because even though they work everyday, sometimes harder than the teachers, they do not make enough money to afford a regular apartment. That is a problem.

When I see some young teachers with children choose not cover their children with insurance because their husbands have left them and they need to pay the mortgage or rent to keep a roof over their heads. That is a problem.

No, these are not your welfare queens and people sitting at home getting a check. These are hardworking people. They wake up everyday and go to work, but the economy is such that they often can not afford the basics.

If minimum wage is a little over 5.00 an hour and gas goes up to 5 dollars a gallon. What will they do?

God has blessed me. No, I am not a millionaire (and have no desire), but I have come along way from a divorced mother that had to catch the bus (metro) to get her education. Started teaching with no car, living in an old professors garage apartment.

I look back at my life and know it was nothing but God. I needed those years or I would have been a snobby monster (trust me).

My motto has and will always be to give back. In my younger years I was a community organizer and activist. My favorite painting is that of a man reaching back to help another man.

I was born into a very middle class family, but God blessed me to go through the struggles that many people in this country face. Just, my background (childhood), made me truly understand the NEED for a good education.

So, yes I can afford the gas and it could go up. I would just have to mow my own yard. But, many in this country can not.

I now support Obama, because when I hear him speak I can relate to his story. That of a dualistic life; somewhat privilege and yet enough struggle to understand the need for a good education and a deep desire to give back.

Enough preaching. I have been on a roll for several days, it must be the 4th and my son being in Iraq. I am headed to the gym before gas goes up to 7.00 and I have to stop my membership.

Have a Blessed Day!

----------------------------------------------------------

PS
For those of you that are scared Obama is becoming to conservative.

Here is a little secret.

On the inside he probably is conservative.

Many times when you find African Americans/Black people at certain levels they are extremely conservative on the inside. That is how they got there.

Many of us were raised you have to be twice as smart, twice as pretty and work twice as hard. To get what you deserve. Remember King's dream (judged on the content of your character, but not the color of your skin).

Being conservative has nothing to do with a political party.

I am Pro-life, but would vote Pro-choice so that women can have ownership of their bodies.


 Kaos86

Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 661
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History
Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/4/2008 12:44:12 PM
How about his flip flop on NAFTA.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=57422

How about his flip flop on public funding?

More to follow.
 exodusi1

Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 662
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Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/4/2008 12:51:52 PM
The lack of any substance is what is driving the right nuts. They don't really have anything to slam him on, hence the idle standard LIberal or flip flop crap. Or the bring up Wright. It won't help, McSame has no chance, no charisma to stand against Obama. We are truly blessed.
 Outdoor2

Joined: 4/1/2006
Msg: 663
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Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/4/2008 1:04:52 PM

Obama and McCain - flip-flop, flip-flop
By Joan Vennochi
Globe Columnist / June 22, 2008

THERE IS no "straight talk." There isn't "a different kind of politics." There are just two men who really want to be president.

In their zeal to win the White House, Barack Obama and John McCain already own enough flip-flops to hang out comfortably in Jimmy Buffett's "Margaritaville," right next to John Kerry and Mitt Romney.

Obama, a longtime advocate for public financing, just announced that he would opt out of the public financing system for the general election. In a statement of breathtaking chutzpah, Obama blamed his decision on Republicans. Meanwhile, he's the one with the fund-raising advantage, including pivotal backing from MoveOn.org, which isn't bound by public spending limits and is already running an anti-McCain ad.

The Democrat who promises change is demonstrating the capacity to embrace an age-old political premise: cave, when necessary.

Obama did it most famously with the Rev. Jeremiah Wright. He was against cutting the controversial minister loose until he was for it. He was also against wearing a flag pin as a knee-jerk symbol of patriotism until he put one on as a knee-jerk symbol of patriotism.

Striking at the heart of Obama's message of inclusion, campaign volunteers last week barred two Muslim women from sitting behind the podium at an Obama rally in Detroit. They apparently wanted to prevent the women's headscarves from appearing in photographs with the candidate.The campaign apologized for the volunteers' actions, saying "This is of course not the policy of the campaign. It is offensive and counter to Obama's commitment to bring Americans together."

On foreign policy, Obama went from stating that he would meet, without preconditions, with the president of Iran, to saying he would meet "with the appropriate Iranian leaders at a time and place of my choosing - if and only if - it can advance the interests of the United States."

On personnel, Obama put James A. Johnson, chairman of the Federal National Mortgage Association, in charge of vetting potential running mates. Then he quickly dropped him in the aftermath of news reports that Johnson received favorable deals on loans from the same mortgage lender that Obama criticized.

For Obama, it all adds up to politics as very usual. But, McCain's flip-flops represent an even bigger affront to the straight talk he promises voters.

As a presidential candidate, McCain now opposes his own immigration plan. He backs the Bush tax cuts he once opposed with contempt. While McCain presents himself as a maverick feared by lobbyists and special interests, his campaign has many ties to both and includes staffers who were once lobbyists.

Last week, the Republican called for lifting the moratorium on offshore drilling, a dramatic contrast with his strong support for upholding the moratorium during his 2000 bid for the Republican nomination.

A former prisoner of war, who suffered torture in Vietnam, McCain has called for the US detention center in Guantanamo Bay to be closed and for torture to be banned. Last week, he criticized the US Supreme Court for "one of the worst decisions in the history of this country" after the court ruled that detainees should be allowed to challenge their detentions in US courts.

McCain has also been trying to distance himself even further from an earlier comment that it "would be fine with me" if the US military stayed in Iraq "for a hundred years," a remark he qualified at the time with the condition that Americans were not being injured or killed.

Meanwhile, McCain is blasting Obama for opting out of public financing. But as Media Matters for America reports, McCain is being asked by federal elections officials to show that he did not use the promise of public money to obtain a $4 million loan to kickstart his once faltering presidential campaign. Doing so would be disingenuous from a candidate who is routinely described as a champion of campaign finance reform.

Perhaps its best to get past the marketing slogans, sooner rather that later. Let voters strip illusion from reality in this campaign.

As they are swiftly finding out, principle is the first casualty in the war to be president.

http://tinyurl.com/5qcpka
 PurpleCrayon~

Joined: 9/26/2007
Msg: 664
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History
Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/4/2008 2:33:19 PM
Excellent post by Outdoor2!

It's time we, as American Citizens, take a look at each man's voting record. The only thing I can find negative with that is that we unfortunately have very little to look at with Obama. There's not enough of a track record there to determine a long standing position...

When taking into consideration of 'flip-flops', one needs to have many years and get an overall picture of how the Candidate has demonstrated his/her averages. How often they have been bi-partisan, etc. etc.
 Brandie46

Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 665
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Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/4/2008 3:31:44 PM
Another great plan.....



(CNN) -- Sen. Barack Obama on Wednesday unveiled a plan to create volunteer and service opportunities to help tackle some of the nation's most pressing issues, part of his weeklong focus on patriotism and national service. "This won't be a call issued in one speech or one program -- I want this to be a central cause of my presidency," Obama said in a speech at the University of Colorado in Colorado Springs. "We will ask Americans to serve. We will create new opportunities for Americans to serve. And we will direct that service to our most pressing national challenges." He added, "When you choose to serve -- whether it's your nation, your community or simply your neighborhood -- you are connected to that fundamental American ideal that we want life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness not just for ourselves, but for all Americans. That's why it's called the American dream."


Happy 4th of July...

Obama 2008!!

See how he has already inspired many.....
http://www.whyobamaworks.com/
 Bikeman_

Joined: 10/8/2005
Msg: 666
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Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/4/2008 4:08:52 PM

We will ask Americans to serve.
This is rehashed from Kennedy's inauguration speech. I've yet to see something unique out of Obama. He flip-flops better than a short order cook. His recent commercial reminds me of Navin Johnson narration in the beginning "The Jerk": "I was born a poor black child..."
 faith2565

Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 667
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Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/4/2008 4:23:17 PM
Latest News;

Today while at the gym watching CNN they were discussing the following topics. Things are looking good for Obama.

---------------------------------------------
July 3, 2008

Gallup Daily: Obama 47%, McCain 43%

-------------------------------------------------
July 2, 2008

Hispanic Voters Solidly Behind Obama

------------------------------------------------
July 2, 2008

As Independents Shrink, Democrats Gain
Downward trend in independents is typical in election years
-----------------------------------------------------
Obama looks to turn Montana blue in the fall
By MATT GOURAS (Associated Press Writer)
From Associated Press
July 04, 2008 6:20 AM EDT
HELENA, Mont. - Only two Democratic presidential candidates have carried Montana since 1948. Barack Obama is betting he can do it in November.
----------------------------------------------------

But 10% of Clinton's followers say that now instead of supporting McCain, they just will not vote. Should we really worry about them?

Where do we go from here?

Looking good all of you Obamacons!

 flyonthewall!

Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 668
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Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/5/2008 12:56:20 PM
Fraid not:

In a CNN/Opinion Research Corp. survey completed in early June before the New York senator ended her White House bid, 60 percent of Clinton backers polled said they planned on voting for Obama. In the latest poll, that number has dropped to 54 percent.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/04/clinton.poll/index.html

So the number of Democrats saying they will vote for Obama is DROPPING not increasing. The only good news for Obama is that the number who say they will just stay home rather than vote for McCain is increasing. Still, a Democrat who sits home, might as well vote for McCain.
 faith2565

Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 669
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History
Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/5/2008 5:19:16 PM
He was at 35% then went to 59% now he has 54% of Clintons voters will support him.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That number is significantly higher than it was in early June, when 35 percent of Democrats polled said they preferred Clinton to lead the party's presidential ticket.

Obama won 59 percent of support from registered Democrats polled in June; now he garners 54 percent.

"These things always take time to heal," said Bill Schneider, CNN senior political analyst. "I think Clinton's supporters are waiting to see if Sen. Obama will pick her as vice president. That would certainly be very healing to them."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/04/clinton.poll/ (SAME SOURCE YOU USED)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Have a blessed day!
 Kiss_My_Karma~

Joined: 7/4/2005
Msg: 670
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History
Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/5/2008 7:37:42 PM
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html

Here's a good one....I like the graph, it's prettyyyy. It's not CNN, it's a compliation of many polls though. It's nice to see so much blue on the page :)
 faith2565

Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 671
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History
Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/5/2008 7:48:37 PM
Thanks Simmah,

I like this one. Every poll has Obama in the lead.

General Election: McCain vs. Obama
Polling Data
Poll Date Sample Obama (D) McCain (R) Spread
RCP Average 06/19 - 07/02 -- 48.5 42.8 Obama +5.7
Gallup Tracking 06/30 - 07/02 2641 RV 47 43 Obama +4.0
Rasmussen Tracking 06/30 - 07/02 3000 LV 49 44 Obama +5.0
CNN 06/26 - 06/29 906 RV 50 45 Obama +5.0
Democracy Corps (D) 06/22 - 06/25 2000 LV 49 45 Obama +4.0
Time 06/19 - 06/25 805 RV 47 43 Obama +4.0
LA Times/Bloomberg 06/19 - 06/23 1115 RV 49 37 Obama +12.0
See All General Election: McCain vs. Obama Polling Data

He is in the lead around the world.
 PurpleCrayon~

Joined: 9/26/2007
Msg: 672
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History
Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/5/2008 7:55:17 PM
That's all wonderful and cool...except... didn't these same polls have the ones who lost leading all the way in previous elections...except for the years Clinton won. If you note, the Democratic Candidate always ... always... leads in the polls.

Reason:

Most of the polls do not do an accurate 'polling' of Middle America. That's it in a nutshell. They simply do not. They 'cherry pick' .... plus... a lot is done via polling cell phones and internet. Middle America is not known for it's widespread use of cells or internet. Probably never will be.

But, I'm cool with the polls cause when it comes Nov. ... like usual... you'll see the pollsters giving excuses why their polls were off. Watch and see.
 Nona37

Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 673
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History
Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/6/2008 7:23:06 AM
This source tells another story about Obama, here are some
excerpts.

"The Illinois senator has excited many with the notion that he is
a new type of politician. But he is giving the GOP effort
ammunition and endangering his “Change We Can Believe In” motto
with several shifts to the center, most recently on the Iraq War,
his campaign’s defining issue."

This shows he is flip-flopping!


"He recently became the first major-party candidate to reject
public financing for the general election after earlier promises
to accept it."

He went against his own promise he made to his potential voters.



"He also said “mental distress” should not count as a health
exception that would permit a woman to receive a late-term
abortion, saying “it has to be a serious physical issue,”
addressing a matter considered crucial to abortion rights
activists."

This cost him some abortion activist votes!


"“There appears to be no issue that Barack Obama is not willing to
reverse himself on for the sake of political expedience,” said
Alex Conant, a spokesman for the national Republican Party."

I agree with this spokesman's analogy of Obama.


"His problem is that his change in emphasis to flexibility from a
hard-nosed end-the- war stance — including his recent position
that withdrawing combat troops could take as long as 16 months —
will now be heard loud and clear by an anti-war camp that may have
ignored it before. So he could face a double-whammy in their
feelings of betrayal and other voters’ belief in the Republican
charge that he is craven."

This flip-flop will cost him anti-war activist votes.


I do believe that Obama's flip-flopping will cost him the
presidency. The flip-flopping he is performing is not because
Obama is an unintelligent man, but he is OBVIOUSLY inexperienced
and has horrible advisors. THis inexperience as well as poor
selections of staff will cost him the presidency. I do not
believe for a minute that Obama is leading throughout the world,
especially with many nations being against Obama, primarily
Israel and many middle eastern countries who are wanting someone
who will take a tough stance with terrorists as compared to
Obama's obvious flip-flopping which shows he can and will change
his mind at the last minute as well as his stances are only what
the masses want to hear.

Obama can NOT be trusted. He will be the doom of our nation
internationally as well as economically. He can not even make a
clear stance and stick to it.

This is why he can not form a solid lead over McCain.

http://www.buffalonews.com/180/story/385314.html
 TheStefano

Joined: 6/15/2008
Msg: 674
Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/6/2008 7:41:30 AM
Nona, your post 652, the Welfare to Work program worked incredibly well, huge numbers of welfare recipients were pushed into the workforce where they were absorbed ...it was a huge success.... and the current TANF has all kinds of work requirement provisions as well as support with day care, etc. while working. I have no idea what you are talking about, it was a huge change in "welfare as we know it" and by every account ive read very much a success.

And in re: """"Obama can NOT be trusted. He will be the doom of our nation
internationally as well as economically. He can not even make a
clear stance and stick to it."""

Pure bullshit, IMHO. The only case where I hve seen Obama change his mind about something is the public financing issue for campaigns, obviously things played out to where he and his advisors felt it was to their advantage to take the flow of private donations and reevaluated their position. Simply a change in strategy, but its wasnt about citizen money to begin with, it was about lobbyist money and not being owned by corporate interests, anyway.
 Outdoor2

Joined: 4/1/2006
Msg: 675
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History
Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/6/2008 8:50:37 AM
McCain:

Was against the Bush tax cuts....now for them.

Was for HIS OWN immigration bill...now against it.

Was against off shore drilling...now for it.

Was against ethanol production...now for it.

Was against Social Security Privatization...now for it.

Was for the estate tax...now against it.



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