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 Author Thread: Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts [CLOSED Thread]
 UniqueManinSoCal

Joined: 8/26/2007
Msg: 51
Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/5/2008 4:30:34 PM
I think of it as more choices as just the two major parties. Neither Obama or McCain float my boat. I want to look at other candidates on the issues and decide from there.

From somewhat bad and REALLY bad (dems vs. pubs) we don't have much of a choice. From what is left I really wish Ron Paul would kick Bob Barr off the liberarian ticket and run there. He is the closest to me on the issues.

I like Obama's inspirational leadership style. That works well in business and I feel a kinship with him in that regards because that is the type of leadership style I employ in my business dealings. But I don't agree with him at ALL with the issues.

McCain is a non starter with his stance on the war and foreign policy. He is also just stealing Romney's views on the economy with the moratorium on spending to evaluate programs. I don't trust him or believe him that he would actually do it. I am not talking Hillary Clinton mistrust but it is damn close. He is a typical politician, tell you what you want to hear and do whatever he wants once he is in.

So with all of that, there has to be another qualified candidate aside from dumb and dumber (dems and pubs) at least this independent hopes so! I am tired of voting for the also ran to keep out the really dangerous guy.
 wonderingoutloud

Joined: 4/4/2008
Msg: 52
Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/5/2008 4:34:35 PM
Condoleeza Rice, Oh, my God, she is sickening. She is a class A Bush ass-kisser and she makes me sick.
 evnstevn

Joined: 1/11/2008
Msg: 53
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Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/5/2008 4:49:22 PM
Condi Rice once referred to Bush as her husb__. I that's all we really need to know.

 gizmosellschickens

Joined: 5/20/2007
Msg: 54
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Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/5/2008 5:20:32 PM
Obama typical liberal, and McCain old style western conservative, and thank god McCain was the front runner the other GOP people would of been dog food taken off the shelf. McCain knows he has to distance himself from Bush, and odds are that this will be close election because of old prejudices still exist.

Also, McCain voting records will make the far-right probadly stay home here, and Obama will probadly only get half of Hillary voters and some will vote for McCain.

People think McCain can win in a landslide has to remember Obama won easily with voters under 45 years old, and McCain base is fractured on the right. GOP can win again if it for small goverment, and freedom of choice, freedom of assoication. Obama wants goverment to solve problems and that never works in America.

Obama does endear himself to older women that accuse him of sexism, and McCain has a problem with GOP members opposed immigration.
 Intrepidinv

Joined: 5/22/2008
Msg: 55
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Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/5/2008 7:55:49 PM
I think there are several factors that look good for the McCain side.

Experience - Outshines Obama like the sun outshines a candle.

Moderate to conservative - strong voting block. Obama is, without a doubt, a true liberal.

Military experience - John McCain served this nation for 20 years in the military - about a fourth of that as a POW. Obama attended a church for 20 years where the preacher preached a sermon saying G..D... America. What a contrast!!!!!

Race factor - I don't agree with it but some people just will not vote for Obama because he's black. Although the democrats have a large portion of black voters the nation on a whole is only about 13% black, still a minority - not enough to win an election.

As more voters closely examine the boy wonder (Obama) they will see that although he is one heck of a charismatic speaker, he's mostly fluff. There simply is just not much substance there.

The media will pump Obama up so that he walks on water. Liberal organizations will pour millions of dollars into his campaign. The left will attack McCain and try to make this true American patriout sound like Hitler. Even so, McCain is, by far, the best candidate for president and I will, without hesitation, vote for him.
 easyoneverything

Joined: 1/27/2008
Msg: 56
Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/5/2008 8:01:56 PM
Intrepid I agree with much of what you say, except the media pumping up Obama. One thing we know about the media, they love to build 'em up and drag 'em down. The build up has been all through the primaries - many Clinton supporters cited this kid glove treatment, and regardless of whether you think it was done against her because she was a woman, or done for him because he's black and they were all enraptured at the black JFK concept, I think the media bias in favour of Obama was overwhelming, And that can only mean one thing. Watch for them to do an about face, slamming him every time he opens his mouth, in the Big Contetst.

Since all global media outlets are owned by only 7 multinational corporations, I would be very interested in knowing who runs them, and how they vote. I guess you could call me paranoid, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn they all lean republican, knew McCain would have an uphill battle against Clinton, moved the media to support Obama to clinch it for him so victory would be imminent for McCain.
 PurpleCrayon~

Joined: 9/26/2007
Msg: 57
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Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/5/2008 8:09:58 PM
With this 'secret' meeting... not so secret anymore b/w Obama and H. Clinton tonight.. tells me that Obama will probably choose a woman since they met at Calif. Rep house right up from H. Clinton. Trying to shore up Calif. and Females in one swoop.

Obama is going to stay in the Media light...but, McCain is doing the ground work with People.

Wanted to post and 'splain that I am not hiding by changing my Username... since my photo is still up there.. A few friends suggested I use Padawan. I'm a youngin' and just a Jedi in training (which is what a padawan is).... so, it wasn't quite fair to call myself a Jedi girl.. quite yet.

O...K.... I got bored with the other Username. That's the real reason I went alongwith my friends.
 Intrepidinv

Joined: 5/22/2008
Msg: 58
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Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/5/2008 9:31:04 PM
"Since all global media outlets are owned by only 7 multinational corporations, I would be very interested in knowing who runs them, and how they vote. I guess you could call me paranoid, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn they all lean republican, knew McCain would have an uphill battle against Clinton, moved the media to support Obama to clinch it for him so victory would be imminent for McCain. "

We'll see, some conservative talk show host feel like McCain was the the liberal media's pick for the republican side - I don't see it. Maybe b/c he is more moderate than some republicans but by no means is he a liberal.

I've never heard anyone accuse the media of leaning towards republicans. Maybe Fox News - according to some. I just think they are "fair and balanced" as they advertise. However, for the most part the main stream media seems to highly favor the liberal candidates - I'd be shocked to see them turn on the boy wonder (Obama). I think McCain will take a beating for the main stream media just like Bush has.

We'll see.
 Intrepidinv

Joined: 5/22/2008
Msg: 59
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Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/5/2008 9:33:46 PM
"Since all global media outlets are owned by only 7 multinational corporations, I would be very interested in knowing who runs them, and how they vote. I guess you could call me paranoid, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn they all lean republican, knew McCain would have an uphill battle against Clinton, moved the media to support Obama to clinch it for him so victory would be imminent for McCain. "

We'll see, some conservative talk show host feel like McCain was the the liberal media's pick for the republican side - I don't see it. Maybe b/c he is more moderate than some republicans but by no means is he a liberal.

I've never heard anyone accuse the media of leaning towards republicans. Maybe Fox News - according to some. I just think they are "fair and balanced" as they advertise. However, for the most part the main stream media seems to highly favor the liberal candidates - I'd be shocked to see them turn on the boy wonder (Obama). I think McCain will take a beating for the main stream media just like Bush has.

We'll see.
 PurpleCrayon~

Joined: 9/26/2007
Msg: 60
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Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/5/2008 9:40:27 PM
Breaking News.... Iran was listening to Obama... they are pi ssed at his remarks to 'eliminate' them.

Some Iranian dude just said they'd rather talk with the old man McCain than to deal with Israel lovin' ... Iran eliminating Obama boy.

Yikes...

This could get very... uh... awakening... I don't want to use... scary...since the Libs jump on that like fleas on a dog... and term it 'fear mongering'...

Time to WAKE UP and smell the coffee... Obama is saying dangerous stuff. And, here everyone thought he was so peaceful. Guess the real side is coming forth.
 uninterested

Joined: 4/26/2008
Msg: 61
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Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/5/2008 10:14:12 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/may/30/rupertmurdoch.wallstreetjournal?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront


News Corporation chairman and chief executive Rupert Murdoch has used his newly acquired technology conference D6 to throw his weight behind "rock star" Barack Obama's presidential campaign, as well as giving his views on the Wall Street Journal.


Despite saying he was a friend of John McCain, Murdoch said the Republican presidential nominee had "a lot of problems".
"McCain has been in congress a long time and you've got to make too many compromise," he said.
"What does he really stand for? He's a patriot - he's a friend of mine and a really decent guy - but he's unpredictable.
"[He] doesn't know much about the economy and - I say this sympathetically - I think he has a lot of problems."

Mr. Murdoch is the owner of Fox (I assume most of you knew this already).
He was impressed with Obama's ability to overcome the Clinton "smear machine".
His daughter was also pestering him. She's a huge Obama booster.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1954519/Elizabeth-Murdoch-hosts-Barack-Obama-fundraiser.html

A fund raising event at the London home of Rupert Murdoch’s daughter has raised $400,000 for Barack Obama’s campaign to be President.
Those attending were asked to pay £1,160 each to Senator Obama’s fund. Only those holding American passports are allowed to contribute directly to campaigns.
Although Gwyneth Paltrow, the Oscar-winning actress, was invited she did not attend. David Schwimmer, who played Ross in the American series Friends, was photographed arriving at the event which took place on 28 April.


I think Obama will be alright. He was able to overcome a campaign that had been years in the making and started off with an 80% approval rating, led by an ex-president and staffed by the most viscious Democrat hatchet men. He overcame Hillary's campaign that recieved over 20% more positive media time and print coverage.
Now he's finally got the media on his side (media usually favors Dems).
As long as Sean Penn doesn't come out and endorse him, he'll be fine.
I believe that this election will be the most civilized in a long time. The Republicans probably took notes on how the Clinton smear tactics ended up backfiring on them and won't want to go down the same path.
 skoochie

Joined: 4/29/2008
Msg: 62
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Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/5/2008 10:17:52 PM

Some Iranian dude just said they'd rather talk with the old man McCain

This isn't going to be good for McCain's meesage that our enemies are hoping for Obama to get the presidency.
 loveoregon

Joined: 10/3/2004
Msg: 63
Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/5/2008 10:35:25 PM

There simply is just not much substance there.

It is also possible that you choose to ignore the substance that many other people see. Or maybe you really don't see it.

Reality can be a hard thing to face and denial is one way to cope.


that our enemies are hoping for Obama to get the presidency.

Except maybe the terrorists.....they might be hoping McCain wins and continues our demise without them even having to attack.
 Nona37

Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 64
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Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/6/2008 5:31:05 AM
I've been watching both very closely. I'm going to be fair here. I too believe it's going to be a great race and very exciting to watch.

Pluses for Obama is first off, he's young, charismatic and "hip". Did anyone catch the slight "knucklebutt" between he and his wife not long ago which was televised? Obama is a GREAT speaker! I truly admire his speaking skills. He has been able to move beyond his psychotic reverend from his church as well as the other one who was grandstanding. He denounced them both. This was admirable, even more admirable that he left that particular church. These particular incidents would have ruined other candidates. He prevailed. The younger generation can relate to Obama as well as typical "americans". He was raised by a single mom and does truly represent the American dream.

Downside of Obama; Inexperienced. Presents no solutions to his many ideas. Has never served his country. Some find him far too passive to deal with international affairs. Conservatives are steering away from him. Some view him as a serious flipflopper. He does not have a good voting record overall. Inconsistent stances. Has no true plan for Iraq.

Pluses for McCain. War hero. Experience. Consistent in his stances. He has went against his own party numerous times in protest of policies. Conservatives love this man. Cares about the environment. Offers a tax cut for the middle class with a way to actually make it happen. Wants to tackle the high gas prices. Alot of military veterans will vote for this man out of loyalty due to he being one of their own (not all of them). Has a plan for Iraq.

Downside of McCain. Bad temper. I feel if Obama is smart, he will instigate this. Pro-life (pro lifers love him but not good if you are pro choice). He wants to place majority conservative judges within our supreme courts. He is not a supporter of gay rights and supports that a union should only be recognized between a man and woman.

This will be interesting. I support McCain on most everything except his pro life stance, I'm pro choice and I am an avid supporter of gay rights. I have a gay cousin, so this is very important to me. It's going to be a good race nonetheless.
 Insolent1

Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 65
Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/6/2008 5:38:35 AM

Now he's finally got the media on his side
Seriously, come on Obama has been the darling of the Media...he can attribute his success to 2 things being black (the media is all caught up in the idea of the first Black president,what a story....) and the medias hate for Bush(Bush bashing is one of the favorite sports of most media outlets 2nd only to their love of praising Obama....)
 K1ngmaker

Joined: 5/22/2008
Msg: 66
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Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/6/2008 6:40:23 AM
Yes, being black has historically been such a leg up in the United States. Especially in the field of politics.
 evnstevn

Joined: 1/11/2008
Msg: 67
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Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/6/2008 6:50:53 AM
A good letter to the ed in the NY Times today, in part:

"There will be debates over policies and plans, but what presidents really bring to the table is leadership, hope, confidence and pride and the judgment to surround themselves with first-rate advisers.

Barack Obama exhibits all of these qualities, not to mention an eloquence that we have not heard in many years. "

 Boricua Papi

Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 68
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Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/6/2008 10:40:04 AM
Yes, McCain is out there being a commander in chief, talking to the people, supporting our troops and having a good time. While Obama is on the defensive talking trash about Presidents Bush policies. The same things Kerry was talking about in 2004 and he lost! Those Reagan democrats are ready to vote for McCain. Also Catholics, Evangelicals and Hispnics are already on McCain's side . If McCain picks a black as his running mate(like Condi Rice) he will get many black voters. With all the media coverage it looks like a 30 to 40 states win for McCain. Unless he picks a white male to be his running mate, McCain looks like he got it!
 PurpleCrayon~

Joined: 9/26/2007
Msg: 69
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Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/6/2008 10:52:20 AM
Another point is 'pork filled' bills.

The Florida Dem. tried to bring up the Everglades bill which McCain voted against. The immediate response was 'all of the story'... McCain presented a bill targeted for the Everglades specifically and voted against the 'pork filled' one which many in Congress wanted. Why did they really want it? McCain's camp got very specific today and pointed out the pork portions and how, in the end, the actual Everglades part would have been distributed to those other 'special interests'.

I'm saying McCain's maverick actual voting record is going to stand solid...no matter how much the Dems. try to wrap Bush around him. It won't work in the end result. Because McCain's camp has facts/actual votes to stand on and will bring those up each and every time.
 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 70
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Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/6/2008 12:09:06 PM
Breaking news over at CNN :


Oil settles at a record $138.54 a barrel, up $10.75, on weak dollar and forecast that crude will hit $150 by July 4.


John McCain and oil ?


Support for Big Oil

McCain Accepted $291,658 from Big Oil in 2007. On average, senators voting for big oil tax breaks and against incentives for renewable energy and efficiency in 2007 received $195,973 in campaign donations from the oil industry during this decade. In 2007 alone, Sen. McCain received $291,658 from the oil and gas industry. McCain missed all three critical clean energy votes in 2007. His absences aided big oil because opponents of oil industry tax breaks needed a super majority of 60 votes to pass the provision to close the loopholes, regardless of the number of Senators who voted. In other words, an absence was the same as voting against shifting money from big oil tax breaks to incentives for clean energy. [4/09/08]

McCain Missed Opportunity To End Big Oil Tax Breaks to Invest in Clean Energy. In 2007, McCain was the only senator who failed to vote on a motion to invoke cloture (thus limiting debate) on the Energy Independence and Security Act. This vote was about whether to close $13 billion in tax breaks for major oil and gas companies to invest in new clean energy technologies such as wind and solar, and efficiency. Sixty votes were required for passage. The motion was rejected 59-40. [CQ.com; HR 6, Vote #425, 12/13/07]

Spokesman Said McCain Would Have Voted With Big Oil. According to Forbes.com, "Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., was not present for the voting because he is on the presidential campaign trail. However, a spokesperson said that he would not have supported breaking the filibuster." [Forbes.com, 12/13/07]

McCain Tax Plan Huge Windfall for ExxonMobil, Others. Sen. McCain recently proposed to cut the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 25 percent. This would have reduced ExxonMobil and ConocoPhillips taxes by $1.2 billion each in 2007. It would have saved Chevron $480 million in 2007. [March 27, 2008]

Gas Tax Holiday Would Hike Oil Prices. On April 15, 2008, Sen. McCain proposed a three month gas tax holiday. He would suspend the federal gasoline tax of 18.4 cents per gallon from Memorial Day through Labor Day. Economists believe that lowering gasoline prices this way could stimulate more demand. Since oil refinery capacity is limited, this could further drive prices up. "The problem is that lowering gasoline prices at the pump would encourage more consumption. So in the long run, it would push prices up."[New York Times, 4/15/08]

McCain Is Officially Inducted into the Petroleum Club. In addition to targeting campaign fund-raising efforts toward the oil industry, with a $1000-a-head roundtable at the Denver Petroleum Club on March 27, 2008, several of his campaign aides are former oil industry lobbyists. [3/27/08]

McCain Repeatedly Voted Against American Consumers and for Rich Oil Companies. In 2005, McCain twice voted against legislation that would have temporarily taxed oil company profits and provided consumers with a tax credit. [Senate Roll Call Vote #341, 11/17/05; Senate Roll Call Vote #331, 11/17/05]

McCain Said U.S. Dependence on Foreign Oil Was A Security Threat, Yet He Voted Against Reducing that Dependence. In 2005, McCain voted against legislation calling on the president to submit a plan to reduce foreign petroleum imports by 40 percent. [Senate Roll Call Vote #140, 6/16/05]

McCain Skipped Vote on Green Tax Credits in Stimulus Package. In the 2008 Recovery Rebates and Economic Stimulus for the American People Act the Senate included provisions to renew and extend the Production Tax Credit and Investment Tax credit for power companies, businesses, and individuals who employ wind, geothermal, solar, and other types of renewable electricity. The February 6, 2008 Senate vote failed to invoke cloture by one vote, and the Senate was forced to drop the renewable electricity incentives. Sen. McCain was the only senator to miss the vote. He indicated that he would have voted against the package with the extension of the renewable electricity incentives. [2/6/08; Washington Post, 2/7/08]

McCain Skipped Vote on Renewable Energy. In 2007, McCain skipped a vote on a motion to invoke cloture (thus limiting debate) on the Energy Independence and Security Act, which included fuel economy, energy efficiency, and renewable fuels provisions. The controversial issue in the Senate was the House-passed provision to require electric utilities to produce at least 15 percent of their electricity from renewable energy sources by 2020. The previously mentioned clean energy tax package was also an issue. Sixty votes were required for passage. Sen. McCain was the only one of five senators then running for president who missed the vote. The motion was rejected 53-42. [HR 6, Vote #416, 12/07/07] =

McCain Skipped Vote to Establish $32.1B of Tax Incentives for Renewable Energy and Efficiency. In 2007, McCain failed to vote on a motion to invoke cloture (thus limiting debate) on an amendment by Sens. Baucus (D-MT) and Grassley (R-IA) that would establish $32.1 billion of tax incentives for alternative energy sources. The amendment would have provided tax incentives for more energy efficiency and the development of carbon capture and storage technology to reduce global warming pollution from power plants. It would have paid for these tax incentives with savings from closing oil company tax loopholes and recovering unpaid royalties from oil and gas production in federal waters in the Gulf of Mexico. Sixty votes were required for passage. Motion rejected 57-36: R 10-34; D 45-2 (ND 41-1, SD 4-1); I 2-0. [HR 6, Vote #223, 6/21/07] NOTE: Sen. Reid switched his vote from "yes" to "no" to protect his ability to conduct a revote.

McCain Opposes Renewable Electricity. A renewable electricity standard would require utilities to generate a certain portion of their electricity from wind, solar, geothermal, and other renewable energy sources. Twenty six states, including Arizona, have such requirements. In 2002 and 2005, there were votes in the Senate to require utilities nationwide to generate 10 percent or 20 percent of their electricity from renewable energy resources. Sen. McCain voted against renewable electricity every time.

2005: Voted against a renewable portfolio standard

2002: Voted against 20 percent requirement:

2002 (Vote 55): Voted to gut 10 percent requirement:

2002 (Vote 59): voted to gut 10 percent requirement:

McCain Voted Against Important Efficiency Standards. In 2002, Sen. McCain voted against an amendment by Sen. Jeff Bingaman (D-NM) that would have restored a standard to require a 30 percent increase in efficiency for air conditioners. It would have saved consumers $1 billion on their electric bills, reduced energy use enough to avoid construction of 45 new power plants, and reduced greenhouse gases by 2.5 million metric tons. President Bush had blocked this rule, and Sen. McCain's vote supported him. [4/25/02]

McCain Has No Plan To Increase Energy Efficiency. Though a recent study by McKinsey &Co. found that the best way to make deep cuts in carbon emissions is to improve energy efficiency of buildings, appliances, and other energy consumers, McCain's understanding of the problem is woefully lacking. He has proposed a program of "energy audits," a system Dr. Joseph Romm calls "a weak, uncoordinated, narrowly-targeted action. They will barely have any impact when it comes to large commercial users who can already afford them." [Dr. Romm, Salon, 2/8/08]

http://www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/2008/mccain_gw_record.html


Need more ammo ?


McCain Donations from Big Oil

Oil and Gas Campaign Contributions To McCain: Mccain Has Taken At Least $720,613 From The Oil & Gas Industry. According to a Public Campaign Action Fund analysis of campaign finance data provided by the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics Center, John McCain accepted at least $720,613 from the oil and gas industry since 1989. [Center for Responsive Politics via Campaign Action Fund]
At Least 15 Top McCain Advisers & Fundraisers Have Lobbied For Big Oil
John McCain has at least 15 people working for his campaign, either as top fundraisers or as senior campaign staff, that have lobbied for Big Oil.

McCain's Big Oil Lobbyists

Name of Lobbyist


Campaign Role


Firm or Company


Oil Clients
Rebecca Anderson Women for McCain Steering Committee Williams & Jensen Sunoco
Wayne Berman National Finance Co-Chairman Ogilvy Government Relations Amerada Hess Chevron Texaco American Petroleum Institute
Charlie Black Senior Political Adviser BKSH Occidental Petroleum Corp. Yukos Oil Chinese National Off-Shore Oil Corp.
Eric Burgeson Fundraiser Barbour Griffith & Rogers BP *Burgeson resigned from McCain's campaign because of his lobbying ties
Kerry Cammack Fundraiser Cammack and Strong Exxon Mobil
Frank Donatelli McCain Pick as Deputy RNC Chair McGuire Woods Exxon Mobil
John Green Congressional Liaison Ogilvy Government Relations Amerada-Hess Chevon Texaco
Richard Hohlt Fundraiser Hohlt and Associates Chevron
James "Jim" Hyland Fundraiser Pennsylvania Avenue Group BP America Independent Fuel Terminal Operators Assoc. Occidental Petroleum Corp.
Peter Madigan Fundraiser Johnson, Madigan, Peck, Boland & Stewart Shell Oil
Jack Oliver Fundraiser Bryan Cave Strategies Shell Oil
Nancy Pfotenhauer Adviser Koch Industries Koch Industries
Steve Phillips Fundraiser DLA Piper BP America
Randy Scheunemann Defense and Foreign Policy Coordinator Scheunemann and Associates BP Amoco
Jeffrey Weiss Fundraiser BKSH Yukos Oil Company



McCain's Policies and Votes on Behalf of Big Oil

McCain's Tax Plan Gives Top Five Oil Companies $3.8 Billion A Year In Tax Breaks. According to a study conducted by the Center for American Progress, "The McCain plan would deliver approximately $170 billion a year in tax cuts to corporations, including some corporations that are very large and profitable. Just one of the proposals-cutting the corporate rate from 35 percent to 25 percent-would cut taxes for five largest U.S. oil companies by $3.8 billion a year." [Center for American Progress, 3/27/08]

http://mccainsource.com/corruption?id=0010


With prices that high at the pumps, McCain's out of gas on the stump.
 PurpleCrayon~

Joined: 9/26/2007
Msg: 71
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Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/6/2008 12:21:21 PM
There are tons of these 'articles' we can copy and paste back n forth...

When you post a bill with an opinion... you need to post the entire bill and all the pork which went along with it... McCain is known and respected for voting against pork. There's no denying that.

As for contributions...here is just one of many for Obama specifically and the Dems. in general. Unbiased since this addresses both Political Parties not doing enough toward energy policies. But, it shows the Obama position and how he dodges.

Here's a link: then, following the link a copy/paste from yet another source. The factcheck link is just longer to do a copy/paste.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/oily_words.html



Posted April 24, 2008 7:36 AM
The Swamp

By Dan Morain

Sen. Barack Obama continued accepting donations from oil company executives and employees last month even as he aired ads in which he stated he took no oil company money, his campaign finance reports show.

Obama has taken at least $263,000 from oil company executives, family members and employees since entering the presidential race last year, including $46,000 last month. At least $140,000 has come in chunks of between $1,000 and $2,300, the maximum permitted under federal law.

Texas oil executive Robert L. Cavnar of Milagro Exploration and his wife, Gracie, have helped the Illinois Democrat raise at least another $50,000 by helping host a fundraiser earlier in the campaign.

Other oil industry donors have included Sinclair Oil President Ross Matthews of Texas and John B. Hess, chairman of Hess Corp., a New York-based oil producer and retailer with operations worldwide. Hess, who has given to other presidential candidates, including Sen. John McCain, gave $2,300 to Obama last year, as did his wife, Susan. Hess gave $14,000 to Obama's Senate run in 2003. The oil executives did not return phone calls.

In the weeks leading up to the Pennsylvania primary, Obama aired a campaign spot in Indiana and Pennsylvania that sought to reinforce his theme that he would change the Washington culture, while also tapping into voter distress about the high price of gasoline. In the ad, he called for a windfall profits "penalty."

"Since the gas lines of the '70s, Democrats and Republicans have talked about energy independence but nothing's changed -- except now Exxon's making $40 billion a year and we're paying $3.50 for gas. I'm Barack Obama. I don't take money from oil companies or Washington lobbyists, and I won't let them block change anymore," says the spot, which aired as recently as April 8.

Obama's ad is factually correct. He does not take money from oil companies. A 1907 federal law bars all corporations from giving money to political candidates. However, oil company employees can make donations.

As the ad aired, Obama took $12,400 from oil company executives and employees in increments of $1,000 or more. Altogether, people who identify themselves as working for oil and gas companies donated $46,000 in March.


Obama spokesman Ben Labolt said unlike Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton and McCain, Obama refused to take money from federal lobbyists and political action committees.

"He accepted no contributions from oil and gas company political action committees, or from those who are paid to lobby Congress on behalf of oil and gas companies -- the money that is intended to purchase influence and access on behalf of corporate interests," Labolt said.

Clinton countered Obama's ad with one detailing his oil company-related donations from employees and executives of Exxon and other major petroleum companies. Factcheck.org, part of the Annenberg School of Communications at the University of Pennsylvania, also chastised Obama for airing the spot.

"From our perspective, if there is a distinction between oil company PACs and lobbyists, and their executives, it is a mighty fine line," said Sheila Krumholz, director of the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics, which tracks campaign donations. "They all represent the same interest -- oil."

Clinton has taken $336,000 from oil company executives and employees since entering the presidential race, including $27,000 in March. McCain took $41,000 last month, for a total of $445,000.

Donors who spoke with The Times said their contributions were not directed by their employers.

Bill Mintz, communications director for Apache Corp., a Houston-based oil company, said his decision to give -- he contributed $2,300 in February before Obama's ad aired -- was neither solicited by his company executives nor by Obama's campaign.

Mintz said in an interview that the Obama ad did not make him regret his donation. But he also said the spot underscored what he saw as a persistent problem in the political discourse over energy.

"I don't think either party is addressing the country's and world's energy needs realistically," Mintz said. "We're not going to produce our way out of this and we're not going to solve the problem with conservation and alternative energy."


Dan Morain writes for the Los Angeles Times


I promise, I have delved into these bills and positions on campaign contributions because I rode the fence b/w McCain and Obama for quite awhile...as per evidenced my posts here from the start of this year.
 faith2565

Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 72
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Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/6/2008 3:36:36 PM
boricua,

blacks are not going to leave Obama for McCain with Condi. What have you been drinkin? Colin Powell maybe, Condi no. Next time they pass the jug, just say no.
 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 73
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Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/6/2008 4:58:52 PM

Sen. Barack Obama continued accepting donations from oil company executives and employees last month even as he aired ads in which he stated he took no oil company money, his campaign finance reports show.

Obama has taken at least $263,000 from oil company executives, family members and employees since entering the presidential race last year, including $46,000 last month. At least $140,000 has come in chunks of between $1,000 and $2,300, the maximum permitted under federal law.


Ahhh...but what does a little research show on this ?


Obama has, however, accepted more than $213,000 in contributions from individuals who work for, or whose spouses work for, companies in the oil and gas industry, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. That's not as much as Sen. Hillary Clinton, who has received more than $306,000 in donations from people tied to the industry, but it's still a substantial amount.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obamas_oil_spill.html


So he's the least corrupted of all candidates that were running for President, up until one dropped out - no names.


May 1 (Bloomberg) -- Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama's proposal for a windfall profits tax on oil companies could cost $15 billion a year at last year's profit levels, a campaign adviser said.

The plan would target profit from the biggest oil companies by taxing each barrel of oil costing more than $80, according to a fact sheet on the proposal. The tax would help pay for a $1,000 tax cut for working families, an expansion of the earned- income tax credit and assistance for people who can't afford their energy bills.

``The profits right now are so remarkable that one could trim them 10 percent or so, which would turn out to be somewhere in the $15 billion range,'' said Jason Grumet, an adviser to the Obama campaign.

Obama's plan may be three times larger than the $50 billion, 10-year plan contemplated by his Democratic rival, New York Senator Hillary Clinton. Republican candidate John McCain, an Arizona senator, has no plan to raise oil and gas industry taxes, said his economic adviser, Douglas Holtz-Eakin.

Oil companies would still have ample reason to ``continue to pursue production, while at the same time providing relief to consumers,'' Grumet said.

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=223850


McCain wants to DECREASE their taxes.
 oldkid

Joined: 7/3/2006
Msg: 74
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Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/7/2008 8:32:32 AM

The plan would target profit from the biggest oil companies by taxing each barrel of oil costing more than $80, according to a fact sheet on the proposal


And with crude approaching $150/barrel, why would any oil company bring oil into the US when it can be sold to some other country for more profit? Most big oil companies produce a significant amount of oil in other areas of the world where the US government has no authority. Why would they import oil from other countries and lose money? Can we say oil shortages??
 loveoregon

Joined: 10/3/2004
Msg: 75
Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 6/7/2008 8:43:30 AM

I don't think McCain will have any trouble at all drawing a clear distinction between himself and Bush.


Especiallly since Bush helps him raise campaign money and he has voted along side him at a 95% clip over the past year.
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