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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/11/2008 6:19:29 PM | | I'm all for my son learning spanish as a second language, I think it will serve him well especially since here in Southern California we are so diversified. What I do have a problem with is any politician telling me that I should have my son learn spanish. That's not HIS job, it's mine. I thought he was out of line. | |
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/11/2008 7:48:14 PM | Barbe, what he actually said was that instead of worrying about Latinos not being able to speak English, what we need to do is to make sure our kids can speak Spanish. The quote was taken out of contex.
It makes perfect sense to me that we should quit bellyaching about what Latino immigrants are learning or not learning and concentrate on our own families.
Si se puede
Obama 2008!! | |
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/11/2008 8:04:52 PM |
Barbe, what he actually said was that instead of worrying about Latinos not being able to speak English, what we need to do is to make sure our kids can speak Spanish. The quote was taken out of contex.
It makes perfect sense to me that we should quit bellyaching about what Latino immigrants are learning or not learning and concentrate on our own families. I can't agree with this sentiment. It used to be that immigrant groups needed to pass tests in order to become naturalized citizens. An English test was part of the test criteria.
I grow tired of trying to translate Obama's messages--often what he says is convoluted. If Obama was truly concerned about people concentrating on their families, in this context he should have said all families should be improving their English skills #1, because that is the language of the land; then they might encourage their kids to learn another language, whatever that language might be. I can't see why we should need to learn Spanish, like I said before I interact more often with Chinese people unable to speak English well than I do with Hispanics unable to speak English well--I guess Obama wants me to learn Chinese??  That statement was pandering for Hispanic votes. | |
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/11/2008 8:09:38 PM | | Brandie46: EVERY one of my ancestors that came to America learned english. Not only so that they could 'make it' here, but also so that they could read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights on their own and understand them as written. Yes, I AM worried about immigrants who don't learn our country's language......it's history too. | |
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/11/2008 8:19:23 PM | Ms. Brandie, thank you, I understood what he said. I saw the video, I also say how it was received by the group he was speaking to. Apparently it was not only I who doesn't want Mr. Obama or anyone for that matter telling me what I need to make sure my son knows. I've already decided for myself that encouraging my son to be fluent in spanish is to his advantage, and I don't need his validation.
TBD 2008
Oh, and Hi 04! Nice to see you hanging out here! | |
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/11/2008 8:39:57 PM | Bikeman, there are still tests that have to be passed to become a citizen, however I'm not sure if English is one of them, or if they give the citizenship tests in Spanish or other languages. It sounds like you do not understand the way he speaks, but I'd encourage you to keep listening to him, you'll get him!
In his comment, Obama, also said that the Latinos will learn English. I did not view his comments as pandering, but if it is, I say pander on.  He's trying to be inclusive and he needs the Latino vote.
o4, I agree that they should learn to speak the language, but I guess what I grow tired of hearing is people complaining about the Latinos coming here and do not know the language. My question is.....and how does that affect your life? And if not knowing Spanish is a hindrance in some way, then why not learn it?
I say live and let live!
Obama 2008!!
Edit: Barbe....it sounds like his 'preaching' might be getting to you. I'm used to that style of communicating, so it does'nt bother me. | |
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/11/2008 9:02:52 PM | My question is.....and how does that affect your life?
From a pragmatic and daily routine point of view, it forces costs that we would not have with a unified language: needing interpretters in every office of government and the legal system, written materials printed in more than one language, etc.
On the more abstract though, I feel it's an earmark of allegance, character and sincerity. I believe that if one wants to be a part of our country, then that is what one should do. To not learn the language is a tell-tale of lack of willingness to assimilate and to adopt our nation as their first. I have no problems with immigrants coming to America to be Americans. But I do have difficulties with people coming to America for all of its benefits and yet still being more allegiant to where they were from - in which case, the true honest answer would be to return there.
Our country has been and still is a haven for immigrants - long may it stay that way. But until recently, and regardless of background, country of origin, color of skin, etc....everyone has learned english (and history, and civics, and and and).......the immigrants of today can and should too. | |
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/11/2008 9:24:48 PM |
Bikeman, there are still tests that have to be passed to become a citizen, however I'm not sure if English is one of them, or if they give the citizenship tests in Spanish or other languages...they should learn to speak the language, but I guess what I grow tired of hearing is people complaining about the Latinos coming here and do not know the language. My question is.....and how does that affect your life? And if not knowing Spanish is a hindrance in some way, then why not learn it? I honestly don't know what the current requirements are in order to become a naturalized citizen. In the past I do know people looking to legally immigrate to the US needed to prove they understood standard English. English is the language of the land "unofficially", but it is the language. Not Spanish. The problem with Spanish being spoken everywhere is (A) it is disrespectful (B) it gives the stigma that most folks speaking Spanish only are illegals. I rarely see enough Hispanic leaders stating that Hispanics should be speaking English when in public. Obama suggesting that we learn Spanish in order to communicate with non-English literate Hispanics is simply pandering for Hispanic votes. It's another instance of him talking out of both sides of his mouth.
It sounds like you do not understand the way he speaks, but I'd encourage you to keep listening to him, you'll get him! On the contrary; I understand Obama WAY WAY better than the typical Obamaholic. Sorry if I haven't bought into his bilge. I've yet to see something come out of the Obama camp that he didn't parrot from Hillary, Bill Clinton, Howard Dean's current Democratic party platform, or past successful (and failed) typical Democratic party policies post 1968. Change to me means something unique--I see nothing unique about Obama. To steal a phrase from a previous Democratic candidate: Where's the Beef? I see no beef; it's all filler. | |
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/11/2008 9:36:09 PM | I've seen nothing so far to change my mind from McCain to Obama. I don't agree with everything McCain has done in his many years in Congress. I don't agree with most of Obama's Congressional votes (that I've found so far).
Until I do, McCain is the better choice.
I will say this... I feel we have much better choices than we did in the last election. | |
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/11/2008 9:40:51 PM |
Edit: Barbe....it sounds like his 'preaching' might be getting to you. I'm used to that style of communicating, so it does'nt bother me.
Very perceptive Ms. Brande...I hadn't thought of that before, but I think you hit the nail on the head exactly. Firstly, I do not appreciate being preached at, I prefer to be preached to . Secondly, I do not like to be preached at by a political figure.
I appreciate your input, I think that explains my very negative response to his message. | |
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/11/2008 11:36:15 PM | What I find funny is how someone will "praise" FDR while utilizing him as an example of NEVER serving in the military but yet will stand on soapboxes and denounce our nation currently of how we have dealt with terrorists. By the way...FDR DID have experience with the military...he was the Assistant Secretary of the Navy in 1913 and held this position until 1920. This position greatly prepared him for his commander-in-chief role. He was appointed by Woodrow Wilson. FDR had experience in dealing with the military...Obama has NONE!
Another way to show the differences between FDR and Obama is that during war world II, FDR moved to build up our military during a time of war, Obama chooses to withdraw and run. There is no comparison here, FDR compared to Obama is the same as comparing "night to day". NO COMPARISON!
I agree that FDR was a fine president, however, FDR had to deal with German terrorists while serving in office. The German terrorists who wreaked havoc within our nation or attempted it anyways...were captured July 10, 1942. FDR created the Military Comissions, held the trials, had the US Supreme Court bless the Comissions, and executed 6 of the 8 German terrorists by August 8, 1942.
I would also like to know how someone can advocate life for criminals on another post but yet praise FDR as a president, a president who expediently put 8 German terrorists to death for their crimes within our nation. Some people need to read history and actually learn what a true stance is.
Obama is NOT FDR and will NEVER have the caliber of such a fine president. | |
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/12/2008 6:14:38 AM | You guys we can stop arguing about language. I have posted this concerning immigration testing.
First what is the test?
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The US Citizenship Test: The U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) is a division of the Department of Homeland Security. The USCIS administers the US Citizenship Civics exam. This is a required step in the naturalization process, and all applicants (with some exceptions) must pass the citizenship test before taking the Oath of Allegiance and officially becoming United States citizens.
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Here are the rules concerning Language with the Citizenship Testing. (Most of the concerns)
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Language
Applicants for naturalization must be able to read, write, speak, and understand words in ordinary usage in the English language. Applicants exempt from this requirement are those who on the date of filing:
have been residing in the United States subsequent to a lawful admission for permanent residence for at least 15 years and are over 55 years of age;
have been residing in the United States subsequent to a lawful admission for permanent residence for at least 20 years and are over 50 years of age; or
have a medically determinable physical or mental impairment, where the impairment affects the applicant’s ability to learn English.
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Here are some of the questions they may ask? How would you do?
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What are the colors of our flag? Red, White, and Blue
What do the stars on the flag mean? One for each state
How many stars are there on our flag? Fifty (50)
What color are the stars on our flag? White
How many stripes are there on the flag? 13
What do the stripes on the flag represent? The first 13 states
What colors are the stripes on the flag? Red and white
How many states are there in the Union (the United States)? 50
What do we celebrate on the 4th of July? Independence Day
Independence Day celebrates independence from whom? England
What country did we fight during the Revolutionary War? England
Who was the first president of the United States? George Washington
Who is the President of the United States today? George Bush
Who is the Vice President of the United States today?****Chaney
Who elects the President of the United States? The Electoral College
Who becomes our President if the President dies? The Vice President
What is the Constitution? The supreme law of the land
What do we call changes to the Constitution? Amendments
How many changes, or amendments, are there to the Constitution? 27*
What are the three branches of our Government? Executive, Judicial, and Legislative
What is the legislative branch of our Government? Congress
What makes up Congress? The Senate and the House of Representatives
Who makes the Federal laws in the United States? Congress
Who elects Congress? The citizens of the United States
How many Senators are there in Congress? 100
For how long do we elect each Senator? 6 years
Name the two Senators from your state. *
How many voting members are in the House of Representatives? 435
For how long do we elect each member of the House of Representatives? 2 years
Who is the head of the Executive Branch of the U.S. Government? The President
For how long is the President elected? 4 years
Name the highest part of the Judiciary Branch of our Government? The Supreme Court
What are the duties of the Supreme Court? To interpret and explain the laws
What is the supreme law of the United States? The Constitution
What is the Bill of Rights? The first 10 amendments to the Constitution
What is the capital of the state you live in?
Who is the current governor of the state you live in?*
Who becomes President if both the President and Vice President die? Speaker of the House
Who is the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court? John Roberts
What were the 13 original states? Virginia, Massachusetts, Maryland, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New Hampshire, North Carolina, South Carolina, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, and Georgia
Who said, Give me liberty or give me death? Patrick Henry
Name some countries that were our enemies during World War II? Germany, Italy, and Japan
What was the 49th state added to our Union (the United States)? Alaska
How many full terms can a President serve? 2
Who was Martin Luther King, Jr.? A civil rights leader
What are some of the requirements to be eligible to become President? Candidates for President must: be natural born citizens, be at least 35 years old, have lived in the United States for at least 14 years.
Why are there 100 senators in the United States Senate? Each state elects two
Who nominates judges for the Supreme Court? The President
How many Supreme Court justices are there? Nine (9)
Why did the Pilgrims come to America? To gain religious freedom
What is the head executive of a state government called? Governor
What is the head executive of a city government called? Mayor
What holiday was celebrated for the first time by American colonists? Thanksgiving
Who was the main writer of the Declaration of Independence? Thomas Jefferson
When was the Declaration of Independence adopted? July 4, 1776
What are some of the basic beliefs of the Declaration of Independence? That all men are created equal and have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness
What is the national anthem of the United States? The Star-Spangled Banner
Who wrote The Star-Spangled Banner? Francis Scott Key
What is the minimum voting age in the United States? 18
Who signs bills into law? The President
What is the highest court in the United States? The Supreme Court
Who was President during the Civil War? Abraham Lincoln
What did the Emancipation Proclamation do? It freed the slaves What special group advises the President? The Cabinet
Which President is called the Father of our Country? George Washington
Which President was the first Commander-in-Chief of the U.S. Army and Navy? George Washington
What was the 50th state added to our Union (the United States)? Hawaii
Who helped the Pilgrims in America? The American Indians/Native Americans
What is the name of the ship that brought the Pilgrims to America? The Mayflower
What were the 13 original states of the United States called before they were states? Colonies
What group has the power to declare war? Congress
Name the amendments that guarantee or address voting rights. The 15th, 19th, and 24th amendments
In what year was the Constitution written? 1787
What are the first 10 amendments to the Constitution called? The Bill of Rights
Whose rights are guaranteed by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights? All people living in the United States
What is the introduction to the Constitution called? The Preamble
Who meets in the U.S. Capitol building? Congress
What is the name of the President's official home? The White House
Where is the White House located? Washington, DC
Name one right or freedom guaranteed by the first amendment. The rights of freedom:
of speech,
of religion,
of assembly, and
to petition the Government
Who is the Commander-in-Chief of the United States military? The President
In what month do we vote for the President? November
In what month is the new President inaugurated? January
How many times may a senator or Congressman be re-elected? No limit
What are the two major political parties in the United States today? Democratic and Republican
What is the executive branch of our Government? The President, the Cabinet, and departments under the cabinet members
Where does freedom of speech come from? The Bill of Rights
What Immigration and Naturalization Service form is used to apply for naturalized citizenship? Form N-400 (Application for Naturalization)
What kind of government does the United States have? A Republic
Name one purpose of the United Nations. For countries to discuss and try to resolve world problems or to provide economic aid to many countries
Name one benefit of being a citizen of the United States. To obtain Federal Government jobs, to travel with a U.S. passport, or to petition for close relatives to come to the United States to live
Can the Constitution be changed? Yes
What is the most important right granted to United States citizens? The right to vote
What is the White House? The President's official home
What is the United States Capitol? The place where Congress meets
How many branches are there in the United States Government? 3
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So, yes they have to take a test in English and know English. I doubt very seriously this will change. I could say that I wish every American had a good credit rating, it looks bad when new citizens can purchase things others can not. That will not change the price of tea in China.
Also, Obama was not the only one voting in that manner.
The real issues in this election pertain to the economy. Now, illegals that is an issue, we do need to do something, but trust me even if congress decides to make it easier for them to become citizens via work permits (which Bush as also recommended) then we will see.
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House Leader Joins Bush To Assist Illegal Aliens
[March 3, 2004 -- As Mexican President Vicente Fox visits President Bush at his Crawford, Texas ranch on Friday, issues of open U.S. borders and amnesty for illegal immigrants (now referred to as "undocumented workers") will dominate the talks. The flashback story below reveals that Republicans and Democrats at the very highest levels of governent promulgate the same agendas regarding illegal lawbreakers who cross our half-protected borders each day. Personal presidential favors, vineyard investments and family insider links aside, the issue of taxpayer-funded benefits for Mexican illegals providing cheap labor for wine industry investors is just one more indication that government officials continue to fleece their American constituents.]
by Tom Flocco
PHILADELPHIA—January 26, 2003
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Have a blessed day! | |
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/12/2008 11:45:28 AM | And why not encourage our kids to learn Spanish, reddwine?
There are no limits on education, the more our children are required to learn
about other cultures and other languages the better equipped they are for the future.
Why would you think there is anything wrong with teaching our kids the skills
they will need to compete in the world in the 21st century. This is a multi-cultural society and our children need to be prepared to step out into the world with a
multitude of knowledge. Most countries around the world teach multiple
languages beginning in elementary school, we are far behind in education at
elementary and high school levels when compared to those countries.
Albeit, our colleges are some of the best in the world.  | |
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/12/2008 12:55:44 PM | Bikeman and o4, not only is America a haven for immigrants, but it is a country of immigrants, built by immigrants. I wonder how different this country would be if the Native Americans had insisted that the newly arrived, conform to their way of life by learning and only speaking their language, respecting the land and following their customs.
Bikeman it is okay if you do not like Obama for whatever reason. I recall that I did not like Bill Clinton either, even though I voted for him.
Faith, thanks for posting that.
So now the Republicans are trying to make his comments an issue......
DAYTON, Ohio (AP) -- Democrat Barack Obama batted away conservative criticism Friday over a comment he made about Americans' lack of foreign language skills.
"The Republicans jumped on this. I said, absolutely immigrants need to learn English, but we also need to learn foreign languages," the likely Democratic nominee said as the 1,000-plus crowd in a school gymnasium cheered. It's a position he long has held.
"This is an example of some of the problems we get into when somebody attacks you for saying the truth, which is: We should want our children with more knowledge. We should want our children to have more skills. There's nothing wrong with that. That's a good thing. I know, because I don't speak a foreign language. It's embarrassing," Obama said chuckling as his audience did the same.
At issue was a remark the Illinois senator made Tuesday in Powder Springs, Ga., that drew laughter from the crowd - but disdain from conservatives and groups advocating English as the official U.S. language. His remark has caused buzz on the Internet and talk radio.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/O/OBAMA
Obama 2008!! | |
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/12/2008 2:13:42 PM | I agree with Brandi, most of us arrived her on a ship of some sort be if slave or free. Some Europeans were also sent her as indentured servants. Majority of the people on this forums ancestery is not Native American. So, please let this go.
I truly believe the problem is the language is Spanish.
This country was founded by immigrants, enslaved by immigrants and now we have (not really a new) immigrant group that speaks spanish.
Yes, we need to speak English, but it would not hurt us to be multi-lingual.  | |
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/12/2008 10:53:24 PM | Now the focus is on Education. What will happen next?
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Ad campaign presses candidates on education
By STEPHANIE S. GARLOW (Associated Press Writer)
From Associated Press
July 12, 2008 11:25 PM EDT
WASHINGTON - An education-advocacy group will begin airing ads this week seeking to nudge Republican John McCain and Democrat Barack Obama on ways to improve the standing of U.S. schools compared with other industrialized nations.
Strong American Schools, a nonpartisan group supported by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and the Eli and Edythe Broad Foundation, wants the presidential candidates to focus on the condition of U.S. education at a time that the economy and gas prices are attracting the most public attention..................................
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/13/2008 7:11:04 AM | If we had concentrated on improving education 20 years ago, we wouldn't be having our struggle with the economy now.
Maybe instead of worrying about a second language we should require a basic knowledge on financial matters and the ability to make a living!!! An educated person who cannot produce something of value and make a decent living was a waste of an education. | |
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/13/2008 7:27:40 AM | I'd settle for Americans learning to speak, read and write proper English -- whether it's your first or second language. Just the use of language and spelling I see in these forums shows that there is a great deal of substandard literacy in the US (and Canada too for that matter).
If you're going into international affairs or marketing learning other languages is a big plus, but Spanish isn't one of those languages. I should know, since I DO speak Spanish and have since I was a little girl. | |
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/13/2008 7:31:57 AM | Old
I agree with you. I have found nothing new within the recent years of getting our country as a whole on track educationally. I feel when basics are achieved such as simple reading and writing skills in ENGLISH...this is when I feel our nation should then attach foreign languages such as spanish and otherwise. We still have people who are illiterate. People who can not read or write english and this is citizens, I'm not even speaking of illegal immigrants.
Do I support a multi lingual culture? Of course I do with English as the primary and mandated language but when we have illiterate people within our culture, I do not feel that Obama should be preaching about learning of all things...just spanish. This was his ploy in gaining the Hispanic vote. He is advocating learning spanish but yet he does not speak spanish himself..I'm sorry, but it makes no logical sense to me at all. Why didn't he advocate latin? Or German? Or Swahili? Get the drift? | |
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/13/2008 7:35:48 AM | Well not everyone goes into international affairs or world marketing. A lot of people go into healthcare, education, and civil service jobs where Spanish can be quite beneficial.
I do believe that good English speaking skills as well as composition and reading skills would be the most beneficial don't you think? Spanish is of course helpful in some cultures but one can not argue the basis of a great education advocating English. Our culture can not advocate merely "Spanish", that in my eyes is almost racist.
When I worked in Deutschland as a civilian with a german security company, it was mandatory that I speak Deutsch, in fact, I had to pass an exam on the primary language before I could even be hired, reason being? The germans stated that Deutsch is the primary language and mandatory that I speak. I was informed if I do not pass the exam, I will not work in Deutschland, legally anyways. | |
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/13/2008 8:24:47 AM | | Well of course I think our kids should learn English before they learn Spanish or concurrently as many do now. And I also think that it should be considered our primary language. But I also think this is getting blown out of proportion as so much does when it comes to Obama. He never said we should make it a priority over English like some here have suggested. He never said we should mandate it in the schools to my knowledge, he suggested that it would be beneficial for kids to learn it. Given the current state of our country in regards to immigrants, I don't see how that's so wrong. | |
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| Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts
Posted: 7/13/2008 10:31:14 AM |
Well not everyone goes into international affairs or world marketing. A lot of people go into healthcare, education, and civil service jobs where Spanish can be quite beneficial.
Yeah, but the reason for that is because we have millions of immigrants in this country who come here and never learn to speak the language.
The illegals should be returned to wherever they came from, and the rest should learn to speak English. If I went to live in another country, I would expect to learn their language, not insist that they learn mine. You know . . . when in "Rome". | |
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