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| Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/18/2008 11:13:42 PM |
It is a forum for grown ups and she posted a grown up question here asking for some grown up advice.
Although theoretically true, clearly the level of maturity runs the gambit from respectful [and hence mature] to rude/judgmental [and hence immature]. I find many individuals in a web forum think they can say anything they wish too due to the fact they don't ever have to look the person they're speaking to in the eyes and see the human response to their callous remarks. Words only have power over you if you give them that power.
You should never judge a person in that way until you have walked a day in their shoes. I mean this is a web forum for gods sake. People have no idea what other trials and tribulations anyone else here may be going through in their life.
AMEN! Once again though, there will always be individuals who think they have the right to be judge/jury/executioner over another person's life choices, not caring what human impact their thoughtlessness has. You can never control another person's words, behaviors, actions - the only thing you can do is control how YOU respond to those stimuli. Personally speaking, I don't allow ignorant words to have power over my self-respect and sense of integrity. :-)
(I apologize for getting off the OP's topic question - my position on appropriate role models for children stands.) | |
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| Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/19/2008 6:31:57 AM | Lady_Educator wrote:
I do not think anyone is disputing a father's RIGHT to be a part of their child's life - the law is the law; however, having stated that, what is of importance here is the INFLUENCE that "father" is going to have over those children.
I know male judges, lawyers, CPS workers, social workers, cops, and DMV workers who talk about their dads with full love and affection, even though from time to time unsavory things about the dads or their relationships with their dads may come up. But in my personal, direct, first-hand experiance, none of these men were damaged by what you might call an "un-fit" role model.
Mind you, these respectable men who had painfully human dads came up in families where the emphasis wasn't on anything beyond building a strong caring loving family. People sacrificed of themselves and worked things out RATHER than jumping ship and then muddying each others characters to try to justify the process - to get a little self-vindication as it were.
So, I guess in answer to the question, I guess since the bond between biological child and biological parent (in this case FATHER) is sacred in the eyes of most healthy minded people (and The United States Supreme Court), I would say figure out what you mean by "Bad" role model.
If what you think is "Bad" is really bad enough - do not ever try to find a replacement because this is considered emotionally abusive and disparaging of the other parent.
If what YOU think is "Bad" is bad enough, court order monitored visits work out quite nicely.
This way (if what YOU think is "Bad" is bad enough) the cours will order monitored visitations and you won't get tagged as trying to replace the dad with dozens of other men, you come out looking like th good guy.
Quite honestly, if anyone [biological father or not] was to have a detrimental impact upon a child in my care, through their own dysfunctional personality or behavior, you can rest assured I would move hell and high water to prevent ANY interaction between this individual and the children. The law be damned over a child's health and welfare. Period.
Hmmmm, heard of PARENTAL ALIENATION SYNDROME? It's a form of emotional abuse wherein one parent (76% of the cases it's custodial mothers) use their own hate-filled agendas to play judge, jury and executioner by deciding the man they just broke up with is a "bad-infuence" and then abduct the child and prevent the other parent (in this case FATHERS) from seeing their kids.
In the end, 87% of all death rowe inmates come from fatherless families - but those mothers are all probalby very pleaed to have liberated these inmates from the influence of their "bad" role model fathers - make sense?
But my question at this point is, if you say "The Law Be Damned" does that apply to the courst when they are awarding child support and stay away orders? Is it "The Law Be Damned" then too? Or is it only "The Law Be Damned" when the courts are working to keep families unified and it doesn't meet with your approval, I am curious to know...
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| Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/19/2008 6:54:27 AM | | Well choices we make effect others. Seems to me from this little information there is two adults that made bad choices awhile back and now it’s time to feel bad and point fingers who’s the better parent. Everyone looks at people differently. You look at his father as an ex that you ether hate, can't stand are blame for things and your child will look at him as his father. So let the relationship that they have be whatever his father choices to have with his son. They will work it all out. Life is long (hopefully). Be the best mother you can be you know the one that answers his questions when he has them, let him live his life as it comes. The world is not fair. So you have to make good choices now. You have to make good choices now from here on out. Raze that boy the best you can. I see baseball, basketball, football, school plays, friends, swimming, martial-arts, track and field, music along with sadness, disappointments, unfairness, losses, letdowns, hart breaks, tuff times in his and everyone’s future.. It's called life. My advice to you and ever single parent, stop worrying about what others do and don’t do and be the best parent you can be…. I’m sure your young boy will grow to be an awesome MAN! | |
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| Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/19/2008 9:41:01 AM | Hmmmm, heard of PARENTAL ALIENATION SYNDROME? It's a form of emotional abuse wherein one parent (76% of the cases it's custodial mothers) use their own hate-filled agendas to play judge, jury and executioner by deciding the man they just broke up with is a "bad-infuence" and then abduct the child and prevent the other parent (in this case FATHERS) from seeing their kids.
If u had read the follow up posts i sent you would see that i have not prevented him from seeing his son. He isnt at all bothered if he sees him or not, and my predicament is, do i try and keep him in his sons life, which i would have to try if i was to (with his anger issues, and worrying behaviours), or would it be less damaging to let things lie. (As the title says).
I do thank all the intelligent honest answers i have received, it has been interesting seeing different perspectives on this. And has made things feel more positive knowing that what ever happens today, tommorow should be ok.
I also thank the not so constructive responses for allowing me to let of all my pent up anger out, you see its not easy being a secretly vindictive sleep around, whos a rubbish mum, terrible influence to my children and is holding a future of loads of different abusive fathers and unrully kids, due to the fact i only choose men as bad as me. But hold your fears i shall be getting the dictionary, maybe then id be worthy of your ramblings. lol
goodluck darlings
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| Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/20/2008 12:32:34 PM | missmichmich wrote:
If u had read the follow up posts i sent you would see that i have not prevented him from seeing his son.
I know, it's all about me and how much I suck for objecting to the diatribe "Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?"
It doesn't ask "Whats more important for a kid, a bad roll model biological parent or no gender-neutral role model at all?" you target boy and father and that just really got me thinking.
Didn't you mean to get people thinking? Or did you mean to get people agreeing with you - I'm confused.
He isnt at all bothered if he sees him or not, and my predicament is, do i try and keep him in his sons life, which i would have to try if i was to (with his anger issues, and worrying behaviours), or would it be less damaging to let things lie. (As the title says).
Oh, now I'm clear - in that case, refer to the order of the court and do what it ORDERS. If you have a problem with that take it back to court and modify it.
But you don't say: "Whats more important for a boy, an uninterested probably wants to stay away from his angry ex-wife and has worrying behavior biological father or no male role model at all?" You wrote BAD ROLE MODEL.
"BAD" is a subjective term, what you consider "BAD" another might not - so what about modifying the order and then having his "bad" role model dad observed until he is a "good" role model?
You do want the boy's relationship with his biological father to be a healthy happy one right? Because where you wrote: "Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?"
Describe NO MALE ROLE MODEL AT ALL for the readers. NO MALE ROLE MODEL AT ALL seems to imply a whole lot than your order from the court might permit.
When you wrote: "Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?" The NO MALE ROLE MODEL AT ALL means that the dad doesn't want to come around and that makes him a BAD ROLE MODEL?
Maybe there are ways of increasing the biological father's desire to come around? Are there arguments which break out about the time of pick up? Does he feel like his child is being used as a pawn against him leading him to believe maybe no contact is better than BAD CONTACT? Or is HE all to blame? Probably him, right?
I also thank the not so constructive responses for allowing me to let of all my pent up anger out, you see its not easy being a secretly vindictive sleep around, whos a rubbish mum, terrible influence to my children and is holding a future of loads of different abusive fathers and unrully kids, due to the fact i only choose men as bad as me. But hold your fears i shall be getting the dictionary, maybe then id be worthy of your ramblings. lol
Pick up a parenting manual while you are at it and read up on the order the court gave you. The rest you'll grow out of - as will the kid god willing.
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| Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/20/2008 9:35:26 PM | I'm new to forums. That's a lot of reading, lots of opinions. Missmichmich, here's my two-cents worth, I hope it helps. The only role-model a child needs is a parent, male or female, who loves them, does their best for them, learns from the mistakes we all make, and doesn't let needless guilt interfere with the relationship they have with their child. The male or female role-model issue is really a non-issue. Boys have many male influences in their lives, they can't escape them (relatives, friends, your friends, daycare, school). Also, if you list characteristics you want for your child the most important things are that they be loving, empathetic, confident, self sufficient, have good self esteem, etc...the list is very long. Knowing how to urinate standing up is fairly low on the list of priorities you want for a boy.
I've worked as a child and youth worker for 20 years and while experience does not make me an expert, I have formed some opinions based on feedback from clients and my own observations and I want to make a few comments.
Obviously I agree with the majority of the other contributers that a child is better off with one loving parent than being in a family with one loving parent and a real ***hole. What children witness in such relationships is really damaging, especially the verbal abuse and intimidation that often occurs. Many studies (pardon me if I don't provide the specific studies) find that children who witness physical abuse are harmed emotionally just as much as children who are physically abused. In southern Ontario, Canada where I'm from, a lot of funding has gone into programs for youth who have witnessed verbal and physical violence in the home.
Attempt to get rid of your guilt (it's impossible but make the effort). I can't tell you the number of times I've talked to women who apologized for not having a good male role model in their child's life or for not leaving an abusive relationship soon enough. These are people who sacrifice everything for their children, often buying new clothes for their children while having to buy used clothes for themselves. Working long hours because the father refuses to pay support or they don't go after support because they want the father out of their lives because of the risk (physically and emotionally) they put on themselves and their children when they are involved. It's not easy raising children on your own and the last thing you need to do is apologize for not having a male role model in your child's life. The guilt can be damaging to the children because some women (and men) feel that their children are doing without because they don't have the second parent and tend to try to make up for it with gifts or by not being firm with consequences. Your boys have one loving parent who would do anything for them (which is more than millions of children have), don't feel sorry for them.
I'm not saying that you need to keep the father away. He really does have rights. If he wants access he should also help support the child financially as your child has the right to be provided for by his father. Even so, I've seen and heard about hundreds of fathers (and mothers) who constantly promise their kids they are coming to see them and then not show up. Or if they do see them they question the children for hours about their spouses activities or leave them alone while they do their own thing. Whatever you do remember this, "children can handle the truth". So don't make excuses for their father, tell your child the truth, you are not bad mouthing another parent when you are giving a child facts (don't call the other parent derogatory names). What is really scary is when you make excuses for their father and the child makes up their own mind about why things are happening and often they blame themselves or create other inaccurate beliefs about their situation. Allow your child to express his feelings of frustration and anger about the other parent. Someone suggested a parenting book, I suggest the same but as a suggestion I offer to anyone. What you want to focus on in the books are the communication skills they teach regarding active listening. Helps you help your children.
The only other advice I would give is to not take the negative comments directed your way too personally. No one knows what it has been like to walk in your shoes. Would you do some things differently if you had to do it all over again. Of course you would, welcome to the "I've screwed some things up in my life club", it's a pretty big club. One thing you wouldn't want to change in any way is your children. The one father may not be much of a father but he provided good DNA. Take care. | |
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| Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/21/2008 11:04:08 PM | | I feel whatever the father decides it should be his choice, but of course the mother has a say in it... My father decided to leave when I was three and that doesn't really make him a good role model or a bad one for that fact... He felt he couldn't deal with the family and his interests were in another woman... So everyone is welcome to their own opinion and how they feel... So Missmichmich I believe do what you feel is right for your son... My brother grew up with a good male role model... He grew up fine... Mind you he is a little deviant, but he's not in jail... If the father is a jerk and has issues let him sort them out before he sorts them out on you or your son... Then you can decide or the court which ever has more authoritity I'm not too sure... But anyways it's your choice, but don't leave your son out, hear what he has to say too... Considering I did read something about he's not interested much in his father... That's ok don't force him, but try to encourage him a little though... I never really knew my father, but he may have a chance (considering the father changes his ways) to know his dad... Sorry for rambling on I just wanted to try and help you out if I could... | |
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luka03
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Joined: 3/16/2008
Msg: 109 | |
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| Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/22/2008 8:07:39 PM | | My sons father makes his own impressions with the boys I get a ton of adult male advice saying i should cover for him but i would rather them know the exact truth the way it is than to lie and cover up anything.If he misses a birthday there is not a present from him , if he doesn't call them on a special day or event i make no excuses .Call me cold and callus but i believe they should learn on their own and form their own opinions. Right now i have one son that it really doesn't matter what he does wrong he will forgive him for missing birthdays and such and then the other son doesn't want to see him largely due to the fact he feels left out by him when he does see him. | |
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| Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/23/2008 4:08:00 PM | | I had to make that decision 2 years ago and I still question it. There are times when I want to just give up and go back to him, but if I take a step back and take a look at the big picture I know I made the right decision. You have to do what is best for you and your family, being a parent means having to make terrible sacrifices for the good of the child. It is a sad situation but just think how much worse it could be staying with the father and who knows maybe you'll find someone out there that will take your son as his very own and be the best father figure you could ever dream of. You are not alone girl I'm right there with you! | |
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| Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/25/2008 6:10:32 PM | I think a bad role model is better than no role model.
As wonderful a mommy as you've been - the kids sure to grow up with a minimum of emotional scars.
They will no doubt grow up to understand that their father is the symptom bearer for the family.
And if you continue to do the right thing and encourage baby-daddy to stay involved - even in the worst case scenario you kid will come to understand that you are the real parent and dads just an ocassional visitor any way. | |
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| Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/25/2008 6:30:12 PM | If the father is a criminal or severely psychotic, then I think you need to keep your boy away from him. do not say bad things about him, just keep him away. its not any better for your son to grow up with the "knowledge" that his father is a loser. Its better to keep your son separated and completely in denial about it until he is old enough to understand better.
However, you must be honest, if the problem with the father has more to do with the fact that you just don't like him, maybe you two fought a lot...perhaps you don't agree with his values, etc.. Then the boy needs his father and you are wrong to separate them, wrong to say bad things or do anything that will jeopardize the possibility that the boy will be able to learn everything he possibly can about being a man from his own biological father.
I realize that if you have decided that you don't like the father's values you would rather raise your son a different way. But there are many things about father/son relationships which you do not understand that are related to how a boy becomes a man. I highly recommend the book "Iron John" by Robert Bly. Aside from the fact that you will stunt his maturity into manhood by seperating him from his father, the boy simply is not exclusively yours. If the courts have determined otherwise, that may be a different matter and see my first paragraph. Otherwise, you have no right to destroy that father/son relationship.
In any case, good luck, I wouldn't want to be in y our shoes to have to make that choice. | |
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| Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/26/2008 1:02:39 PM | Some more interesting points
borntoski
that book, have u read it?? How does it affect aboy without a male role model?? (obviously i dont want this outcome, but if it happens ive got to deal with it best way i can), ive met a few men who have lost their dads from a young age, mainly through death and these men in my opinion have real problems in relationships, and infidelity, what are the problems a boy faces with no role model???
I would really appreciate it if u can take a look for me??
Also any more details on...............
But there are many things about father/son relationships which you do not understand that are related to how a boy becomes a man. I
thanks | |
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| Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/26/2008 1:11:47 PM | | yes, I have read that book and I suggest you do as well. Its deep stuff but I recommend it to every single mother of a boy I know and I recommended it to my sister too who is not single. Most boys in western society today are not getting ample male energy injected into their lives and the result is that we have millions of young men in their 20's and even 30's running around acting like adolescents. The ones raised by single mothers have it even worse. | |
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| Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/27/2008 1:26:17 PM | | As hard as it would be for your son not to have a father its even harder to force someone to do something they dont want to do and it might be easier to cut him completly out of your lives instead of him being dad when its good for him. i have 2 children ages 3 and 5 and the last time they seen their father he was being put in a police car as i was being loaded onto an ambulance. so i try to do everything i can for them and hope that one day i find someone who will welcome us all into their lives but for now im the mom and the dad and its hard but were doing ok | |
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| Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/28/2008 9:23:43 AM | | Why would a woman allow a CHILD to decide whether they want their dad in their life when he is not good for the child? I read posts from these woman saying that they allow their children decide on whether they have contact with their fathers. What does a young child know? A good mother will recognize a bad influence on a child and do everything possible keep this person from spoiling or ruining the childs life. And a leopard can't change its spots....they are camoflauge to hide its deep down ulterior motives. I know women with this mentally and they pushed alot of good men out of their lives because of this thinking...they wanted the kids' biological fathers in their lives, regardless how evil or bad they are. Well these kids are grown know and are emotionally and physcologically scarred for the rest of their lives. Do what is best for your children and if their fathers are not good for them,KEEP THEM AWAY! Remember you have to be 16 to drive a car but any idiot can create a child. Too bad there wasn't a law concerning that. | |
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