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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/8/2008 11:51:10 AM |
As I keep saying, don't just tell us what you want. Tell us what actually WORKS and we'll do it. I have learned that "want" and "works" are 2 separate far away things. Be honest, and reward behavior that you want. Otherwise, you'll only end up with guys who know what works, and guys who tried what women want and are still single asking "WTF do you want from me??"
The funny part is that I often end up saying this exact thing about the men I see/talk to/date.
So, for the sake of anyone interested in me: Call early, call often. I respond to verbal and physical sweetness. Never leave me in doubt of how you feel. If you have no intention of spending actual physical time with me, go away. | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/8/2008 1:07:48 PM | | I have never been into the "chase" of it all , and dont care for women that are to pushy either...I like for things to unfold as they should and have always been patient in that way...if there is interest from both sides , then why the need to pursue ?...if I have to chase them they are not worth my time...simple | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/8/2008 1:11:39 PM | I do a bit of pursuing to a point. If I am calling and texting someone, I always ask if I am being too much for them. Some like to be constantly called others don't. I'd rather ask and know how they feel about it than find out that they're not interested because I contacted them too many times.
I have seen a lot of discussion about the 72 hour rule when it comes to calling a woman after a date.
Again that depends on the person you're dating. I recently met a sweet girl from this site and we hit it off on the first date. Previous to her, I had met another girl a few weeks prior that I had contacted the next day after our date, that girl went no where. So this new girl, I thought that I would hold off a few days and call her. She eventually ended up sending me a message saying she had a great time and wanted to get together again. Brownie points for her!
I have heard some women say that if a man does not make a move on the first date, that they think he is not interested. I do not share this, I think it means he is polite. A gentleman. If you couple that with the enthusiasm expressed when a man is seeking out your company, this would be a glorious sign
I don't kiss on the first date, because I don't give my kisses out to just anyone. Once again the most recent girl didn't get a kiss till the second date. And she went in for the kiss on me! | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/8/2008 1:48:32 PM | I would like to quote some words I heard a long time ago.
"My old man told me, before he left this shitty world, never chase buses or women, you'll always be left behind." Marlboro in Harley Davidson and the Marlboro Man.
I so should have headed his words, I would be a much richer man and I would still have my house....haha | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/8/2008 3:47:19 PM | crayonzz...
I want you to try an experiment... with my permission
take these messages I have sent to you via this forum to the police. tell them you are concerned based on these messages.
you will be told... there isn't any reason for them to be involved.
===================================
No Upstate!
Thats not the way you do it.
You take the messages to the nearest rape counselling centre , or militant feminist group and have them then take it up with the police. Thats when the police do get involved. | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/8/2008 3:51:10 PM | A Good Man will not chase a woman? And so using your logic why would a Good Woman chase a man?
Ridiculous example
=============================
Re read it please.
I said a GOOD man is worth chasing.
What I didn't make clear is that these good men arent going to do any chasing because they don't need to. They already have man savvy women chasing them..
This means that the women who behave like "the catch" will be stuck with the predators because thats all that's left. | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/8/2008 3:58:11 PM |
Guy asks for number, he calls her 1 or 2 days later. She says "Oh, I'm in the middle of something, can I call you back?" and she never does. Should he continue from that point? Or was that an indication of disinterest?
If he doesn't 'take the hint' and stop pursuing her because she's not interested, he's wrong. If he keeps pursuing her and she isn't interested, he's wrong. Mind reading is the only solution.
A man who continues to pursue after hearing the first no... is the problem. Once someone has drawn a line in the sand, if you continue to ignore this, and walk right over it... that is the kind of aggressive behavior that makes women wary of all men. While we consciously know that all men are not like this. If it happens to a woman repeatedly, she needs to look at her clarity in the definition of her boundaries. She is giving mixed signals.
This whole pursuit thing is about NOT GIVING UP at the first no, the first negative reaction. When I start to approach a woman and she gives me that 'don't talk to me look' I walk away, that's the 'first no'. There are more examples but what the complaint that I hear from women is that men aren't pushing through that 'first no', that first sign of negativity any more. the men aren't pursuing. Of course we aren't pursuing we were told unwanted attention is WRONG. That is reinforced by every woman we encounter that isn't attracted to us.
To have pursuit, the woman has to first be on the 'run'. It's not a 'pursuit' when you pull over immediately when the cop puts his lights on. But men aren't supposed to follow when she takes off. The whole situation is a catch 22 for the non-mind reading guy. It makes perfect sense to a woman, but the it is unsolvable problem for the man because it requires that the man know if the woman WANTS him to pursue. Men don't have that piece of data. It makes sense for the woman because she knows that. She just thinks men are supposed to know it too.
Giving mixed signals is EXACTLY what women do with any decent guy they aren't completely interested in. They want him to hang around... they don't want him to go away. They give just enough positive so he'll think there is a 'shot' and a enough negative to hold him back. Then she'll turn around and blame him for not pursuing her when he gives up and walks away.
Good men will not chase you because good men don’t need to chase anything . The world beats a path to their door.
Does not happen. Most good men are not exciting enough for that to happen.
i have gave him signs without being to obvious
Duh. They aren't 'too obvious'. You're expecting him to read your mind. I've gotten all sorts of 'not-too-obvious' signs from women, every time I've acted on them I was an idiot because she was just being 'friendly'. | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/8/2008 4:28:05 PM | I've had the same woman run hot and cold towards me. Even making
sexual suggestions! But then not responding when I show interest!
Maybe some women just like toying with a man, as a cat does to the mouse!lol
Especially men, they are attracted too, feel comfortable with but have no
interest in having a relationship with!
EDIT I would love to have some input on why women do run Hot and Cold
and Hot again from one meeting to the next? It's such a vague question,
that I would not dare post a thread about, but I experience it a fair bit! | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/8/2008 4:29:28 PM |
1) If you don't have much in common with the opposite gender, your relationship will fail. It's a matter of time. Major differences on fundamental issues spell D I S A S T E R. Just because someone has values, shared interests and things in common, does not mean they will be the same as you. If you cease to respect their differences, then that is the thing that will destroy a relationship.
American women, generally, have a huge sense of entitlement. Men are objects which they can fit into a slot alongside baby and career, just another thing they can brag about/complain about to their friends. If you wonder about why women have to fit relationships into baby and career, take a look at how the women who have given up a career to raise their children and devote themselves to their family are considered by men. How many men complain vociferously about women who "sat on their butt" for years getting half of the accumulated assets of the marriage? I stayed home and raised my kids when they were little. Trust me, there was little butt sitting in any given day. Yet during the divorce, my ex just simply refused to pay me a cent of alimony, when he was the one that not only suggested I stay home, but encouraged me to give up my career, because I did not have time for him. He never did pay the alimony and whines still about the child support. To this day, I would love to stay home and dedicate myself to my family and home. For this, I am considered lazy.
All of this argument about pursuit is somewhat a mute point. A woman, especially an attractive woman ALWAYS gets what she wants! And EVERYTHING hinges on what she wants and whom she fancies! Everything else is really a discussion about men approaching women that have NO INTEREST in them! Sorry, when you shop with your eyes before considering the inherent value of the item, do not come crawling to us when your pretty dolly has teeth.
When if comes right down to it, the only people who look like models, are pretty much models. If 99% of the men are vying for the top 10% of really attractive women, I suggest that this is a problem created by men, for men.
If he doesn't 'take the hint' and stop pursuing her because she's not interested, he's wrong. If he keeps pursuing her and she isn't interested, he's wrong. Mind reading is the only solution.
Giving mixed signals is EXACTLY what women do with any decent guy they aren't completely interested in. They want him to hang around... they don't want him to go away. They give just enough positive so he'll think there is a 'shot' and a enough negative to hold him back. Then she'll turn around and blame him for not pursuing her when he gives up and walks away. I do not condone these sorts of games. If you are interested, say something, if you aren't the same rules apply and they apply across gender lines as well. If you would like to spend time getting to know someone better, what exactly is wrong with saying that? | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/8/2008 5:47:22 PM |
Whenever a guy says " Im not into games", and you wonder what he means by that?
Since the meaning varies from guy to guy is it any wonder why the meaning isn't always obvious?
Well, this " He better know how to pursue me" is a very good example of these games.
How so? Just sounds like the normal mating dance to me. | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/8/2008 6:14:01 PM |
How so? Just sounds like the normal mating dance to me.
No one taught me how to do this. No one is giving away any techniques that work.
There are words spoken, where they SAY they work, and this tends to drive them away in practice. Or, at least not an attracting factor. And then the women run off with the guy that does just the opposite of what they said they want.
Look, I'm sure that women are tired of being told that they're awful at picking guys. But watch what happens around you and compare what is being said to the evidence of what actually happens. It's not consistant.
It's like getting an instruction manual for a TV when you're trying to figure out how a camera works.
I want advice that's real. Advice that works. Advice that's honest, and I don't care who's feelings are spared. But please, just be honest about what's real. | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/8/2008 6:19:03 PM | ^^^^^^^ AND it's written in Chinglish!
The good news is that you can, start to understand why you arn't
having the success you might like! If you get rejected ten times,
it probably for the same reason! Women are attracted to certain
qualities and repulsed by others! The other good news is that you
don't need all these qualities, just some. But the important thing is
to identify and get rid of the qualites that women really don't like!
I know, so many people on here say, just be yourself, but I say, you
better change, if you want your success with women to change!
If you have the qualities that women find attractive, you won't have
to pursue! Why chase after a woman, when you can get her to STOP
in her tracks! MUCH EASIER! | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/8/2008 6:33:12 PM |
American women, generally, have a huge sense of entitlement. Men are objects which they can fit into a slot alongside baby and career, just another thing they can brag about/complain about to their friends. As a result, they have honed to a razor-sharp edge every tool in the toolbox to dissuade men from paying attention to them. From the dismissive glance to the profanity-riddled tirade, to the "chase me because I'm oh-so worth it" attitude, you name it. Every time a guy talks to a woman, he has to psyche himself up for it, preparing for the attack which usually comes.
Wow...love the "American women" generalization sir! I'm sorry...I don't remember being polled to ask me how I felt...wasn't I home when you called/knocked on the door?
Not ALL American women feel entitled to something. I hate to read that someone has obviously ticked you off so badly that you slap a label on all women. I don't feel entitled to anything when it comes to men. I think that if a guy decides to pursue me, I'm gonna be flattered!!! I don't see it as stalking--some women take some things to the extreme, as do some men (the above generalization being a reference). I know stalking...and pursuing me doesn't equal that.
I believe that the advent of online dating has kinda leveled the playing field and it seems to tick a lot of guys off. Back when I was younger (under 25), men did pursue women...there wasn't POF or other sites where women could be the initiator. Makes a huge difference to many guys because for some, maybe they feel we've taken away a tool they had in their arsenal...I guess it did.
I don't know...but if a gentleman showed a lot of interest in me, I'd show it back. Shrugs...maybe I'm just different that way! | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/8/2008 6:40:54 PM |
The good news is that you can, start to understand why you arn't
having the success you might like! If you get rejected ten times,
it probably for the same reason! Women are attracted to certain
qualities and repulsed by others! The other good news is that you
don't need all these qualities, just some. But the important thing is
to identify and get rid of the qualites that women really don't like!
Great! I think the same way.
Now, if only we knew what these qualities are.
Instruction manual please! | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/8/2008 6:51:24 PM | Ubkobalt;
If I knew you, I bet I could probably give you some good feedback!
Most men's Egos are their biggest stumbling block! Not just for the
unattractive behavior of the Ego itself, but the Ego won't generally
admit that it has been doing things wrong and hence won't change!
Quite often the area where the Ego is MOST sensitive is the area
that requires the most work! | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/8/2008 7:05:54 PM |
Sorry, when you shop with your eyes before considering the inherent value of the item, do not come crawling to us when your pretty dolly has teeth.
When if comes right down to it, the only people who look like models, are pretty much models. If 99% of the men are vying for the top 10% of really attractive women, I suggest that this is a problem created by men, for men.
I'll admit it's very frustrating to see that men are just as bad at picking mates as women are. What's important for the long haul is secondary for what is important for the here and now. And with it being illogical, there doesn't seem to be anything we as a species can do about it. Sad really.
I think it's important to point out though that "really attractive" isn't necessarily "model-like". The beauty scale is brutal, but not that brutal. | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/8/2008 7:13:04 PM |
If you have the qualities that women find attractive, you won't have
to pursue! Why chase after a woman, when you can get her to STOP
in her tracks! MUCH EASIER!
Very true. The top 10% of men do not have to pursue women. If you have the traits that women find attractive, then they'll come to you. I think what many men and women don't realize is that what we believe should be attractive to the opposite sex rarely is. You can't look at yourself and take note of what you find attractive about yourself. You're not the target audience. See what the women you want are going for and become that. Complaining about how you can't get what you want is annoying. "Men are shallow,","Men only care about sex,","Women only care about money,","Women have an entitlement complex"...etc, etc. This all basically says, "What I want, doesn't want me back." Yeah, well there are people starving somewhere. Look at your ideal, analyze it, watch its mating patterns and determine the best method to get it to come to you.
What was hard for me personally to realize was that the beauty scale for men and women is considerably more brutal than it first appears. A friend of mine pointed out that since the opposite gender determines attractiveness levels, then you have to watch and see who consistently says yes to you. So if you're a man that rates himself a 6 and goes after women that are 6s, but none say yes...but 4s do, then you just found your true rating. A 4. The same goes for women. If the men that approach you consistently are never above a certain number, then that's your ceiling. Just because a 7 approaches you, doesn't suddenly make you a 7. It's what level of man approaches you on a consistent basis. Men that are above an 8 typically must be pursued since the competition is fierce at that level. Brutal. *lol* | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/8/2008 8:13:41 PM | Falling Ember:
I see some truth to what you say, however, just for instance, people
here on POF are constantly being approached by others who are no
where close on the attractiveness scale! | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/8/2008 8:26:50 PM | Good point: the online culture skews the scales even further. I was speaking more about RL interactions, but should have made that clear. The online dating environment is strongly "catalog" in nature, so what you believe you can get is considerably higher than what you can actually maintain. For men, it's evidenced in who will actually meet them offline. For women, it's who will continue dating them after they've had sex.
When you're online, you'll also be approached by anyone that finds you remotely attractive and can click send. And since there's no true chance of embarrassment or time lost, there's no harm in sending an email to someone just to test the waters. So granted, the scales are kind of useless in an online environment. :) | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/8/2008 9:02:28 PM | What was hard for me personally to realize was that the beauty scale for men and women is considerably more brutal than it first appears.
I like using the Sarah Jessica Parker test on men and women. If I knew how to post a poll, I would.
For men, it's evidenced in who will actually meet them offline. For women, it's who will continue dating them after they've had sex.
You're quite smart. You HAVE been paying attention!
And, for the women, there are typically 4 steps on the sex scale.
Not at all
Only if drunk
Yes, but I wouldn't tell anyone
Yes, but I would tell people.
I know that the word getting out isn't the best situation, but trust me, you want to be in the last catagory. | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/8/2008 10:59:23 PM |
Only if drunk
Yes, but I wouldn't tell anyone These two middle categories, if they do exist... Do not paint a pretty picture of males in general.
For men, it's evidenced in who will actually meet them offline. For women, it's who will continue dating them after they've had sex. Which is the single best argument I have heard for waiting to have sex for a while! | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/8/2008 11:18:35 PM | These two middle categories, if they do exist... Do not paint a pretty picture of males in general.
A lot of things I say aren't designed to make guys look good or spare anyone's feelings.
A lot of the things I say are designed so that you can navigate confusing waters and protect yourself and make the right decisions. Of course, it's just my opinion.
I'm not trying to be heartwarming as much as educational. If you know that my attempts at being educational are honest, that should be heartwarming enough. 
If you fall for feeling good before honesty, or considering what you want to hear as the truth, it will often lead to cons and failures. | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/8/2008 11:34:11 PM | Yes ubkobalt, I know you are honest and a good guy. I for one, think the women in the bay area are insane not to snap you up.
I will say however, if some really men think things like this... It should change the entire way women handle themselves from now on. To consider percentage of the opposite gender as being good enough to pork, but not good enough for anything else... is the worst sort of exploitation of an entire group of people. It would show them to be immoral, horrid, human beings. It would also explain why so many women are bitter. One man like this rampaging through the female population, will sully the path for 20 decent and men who come after him. Once again, it's men creating more problems for men. | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/9/2008 12:07:11 AM | Yes, but I cannot possibly hope to stop it.
Especially when I feel it too. It's beer/locker-room talk, but it's there. Not necessarily going to act on it, unless it's mutual. I know that there are some women who would be willing, not necessarily looking for a relationship. I wish they would speak up and not be bound to any society's labels. I want them to be free to choose. It would make things so much easier if we removed the puritans with their labeling guns. Unfortunately, there aren't enough of them to go around.
But I know that too much damage can come from it, so I won't. And, while others do not have that ethical boundary, I have to sit and sacrifice my own joy while others aren't bound by that. Yes it makes women bitter. And it makes me bitter to watch it all happen, when I could just as easily just say "Screw it, you only get one life. Make the best of it." I'll repent before I die. | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/9/2008 12:27:54 AM | Mominatrix, msg 110:
To consider percentage of the opposite gender as being good enough to pork, but not good enough for anything else... is the worst sort of exploitation of an entire group of people. It would show them to be immoral, horrid, human beings. It would also explain why so many women are bitter. One man like this rampaging through the female population, will sully the path for 20 decent and men who come after him. Once again, it's men creating more problems for men.
Despite the fact that your post appears to reject this notion outright, this issue is not gender based. Not even close. | |
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