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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/9/2008 6:27:56 AM |
Which is the single best argument I have heard for waiting to have sex for a while!
Absolutely. I've heard men say you should have sex when you feel inclined to, but that's just hormones. No matter what anyone says, if a woman sleeps with a man before getting to know him she will be judged if she chooses poorly. It doesn't matter that he told her she was beautiful, or he misrepresented himself. She chose him.
If a woman slept with a man after knowing him a short amount of time, and she was still able to create a relationship then she was fortunate. That was a man who saw her as relationship material and didn't have any problem with sex occurring shortly after meeting her. If the guy does not see a girl as relationship material, then she won't get a relationship with him. He'll have sex because it's available, he's physically attracted and doesn't have a problem with having sex with her until he finds a girl who he can have sex and a relationship with.
My father, although not always the best of men, did give me a gem of advice when I hit puberty and boys began to sniff around. "A hard d*ck has no conscience. No matter what he says or promises, you judge him by his actions not his words until you know him." Not all men are that extreme. Some will be attracted, but won't try or lie for the obtainment of sex. Still, by taking my time I build a connection with a guy if he is interested in a relationship or weed out the guy that is only interested in sex. Time reveals everything given time. | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/9/2008 7:22:16 AM | It irks me to no end when people attempt to portray a particular gender as victims!
Women control relationships! They are the go/nogo deciding factor!
Some women that I have had no interest in, either physically,
or for their life situation, turned to the only tool they had left!
That of course was SEX! Unfortunately, they are barking up the
wrong tree when it comes to this man! Boy do they get Mad then!
So if other men do take advantage of this, and then simply fuk off
afterwards, searching for what they are really looking for,
how can anyone consider the women as victims? If anything,
they are just victims of their own making! Like most of us! | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/9/2008 7:40:53 AM |
So if other men do take advantage of this, and then simply fuk off
afterwards, searching for what they are really looking for,
how can anyone consider the women as victims?
I see this issue in the sense that men seem to see dating. When a woman accepts a man's offer to go on a date, the man typically assumes the woman is giving him a fair shot at a relationship and is not saying yes just to get a free meal. If a woman does say yes just to get a free meal and had no intention of ever considering him for a relationship, then the guy tends to feel used. The same goes for women and sex. Some women when they have sex assume that sex is the precursor to a relationship. That the man wouldn't be doing it unless she has a shot with him. When he leaves after the sex has been obtained, she tends to feel used. It's not like a guy states, "You're hot, I'd never consider you for a serious relationship. Why don't we just get down and boogie for a few weeks?". Why won't he just come out and say this? Because it decreases his chances of getting sex. So instead he flatters her just enough to keep the flow of sex consistent for as long as he wants it, then bails.
Basically, people want to believe that when they're dealing with the opposite gender that they're being treated fairly. That what is being said is true, that when you receive affection it's because the person feels affection towards you and that they respect you otherwise they wouldn't deal with you. This of course isn't how the world works, so you do the best you can with what you have to work with.
I have to disagree with women controlling relationships. Women do not control relationships. Women control the flow of sex and the only way a woman can control that is if men can't control their desire for sex. Control that desire, and she can't use that to control the relationship. I agree that we are often victims of our own making, but I disagree that we are solely victims of our own making.
It's difficult to see clearly when the other gender throws up smoke screens. For women, if they remove the emotion and hope they can see clearly. For men, if they remove the desire and hope they can see clearly. When you're in the midst of it, that is very hard to do. So you mess up and learn. This doesn't mean the other person was right for taking advantage of your naivete. It just means you have to learn not to be naive about the opposite gender and not allow optimism to be a double-edged sword. | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/9/2008 7:57:42 AM | I have to strongly disagree about women not controlling the relationships!
Women have a nasty habit in confiding in me, and some of the things that
come out of their mouths, of these poor innocent victims lol, sound more
like Attila The Hun! The men they are involved with, have no idea what's
really going on! I'm not talking of infidelity, but of the woman's secret
agenda!
The men are totally clueless! And that's the way these women prefer it to stay! | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/9/2008 8:24:13 AM | I agree that men have a tendency to underestimate women and believe we are much gentler than we truly are. Men on the whole are more optimistic and kind than women typically are, but it is in our best interests for men not to see that. Ego is not something only men possess.
To be honest, I see that as a sign of naivete more than anything else. If you watch a person's actions rather than their words, you will figure them out relatively quickly. The problem I see with how most men behave is that they do everything possible to avoid confrontation with their female. They already have to battle out in the work world, and do what they can to avoid having to do the same when they come home. I understand this, but before you marry that person (whether it be a man or woman), you need to know what you're dealing with.
In my experience, men and women are horrible judges of character. They tend to ignore red flags, weigh pros and cons unevenly and allow optimism to harm them rather than help them.
Am I clever enough to control a relationship? Yes. Every man I have met, sans a sociopath, had a little boy in him I could sense that just wanted a woman to hold him, believe in him and support him. Even the most bitter of men given time showed that part of himself. If I focused on manipulating that part of him, I could control the relationship. He could subvert this action though by watching me long enough. No matter how clever a person is, they will slip up. They will show their hand. The problem with people is that they hope and will hold onto that hope until it's ground into dust.
Now before I get bashed, I have never manipulated a man in a relationship. If I can manipulate him, then so can others which is dangerous for his well being and the strength of our relationship. I purposefully avoid men that naive for a variety of reasons. I just believe one of the best ways to avoid hurting others is to know what you can do to hurt them, and just not do it.
I have to say that women aren't the only ones who can do this. Men can control a relationship through manipulation and presenting a false front. I just think when you're speaking of bad LTRs that it's typically the female who has learned what to do to get what she wants. | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/9/2008 10:12:50 AM | You speak with honest clarity.
God it's refreshing around here. | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/9/2008 10:38:13 AM |
Absolutely. I've heard men say you should have sex when you feel inclined to, but that's just hormones. No matter what anyone says, if a woman sleeps with a man before getting to know him she will be judged if she chooses poorly. It doesn't matter that he told her she was beautiful, or he misrepresented himself. She chose him.
I suppose it helps then that I'm not looking for a real relationship. Leaves me free to have sex when I want to. If a man doesn't continue to be interested after that, I still had fun. My experience has actually been pretty good. It's the rare man that doesn't still want to spend time with me. In fact, a portion of them try to push me for a relationship when I was clear from the beggining that this wasn't my goal. Maybe I will have to change it up if I start looking for something serious. Who knows? Probably not though. I think I'd rather be without something serious than to change my behaviour because someone doesn't like the real me. | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/9/2008 11:03:13 AM |
Why pursue when there's tons of great women out there we don't need that nonsense with?
Yep......this whole modern 'equality' thing means we can now actually treat each other as equals. 
I certainly don't mind telling someone I find her attractive & would like to get to know her better.....& I've found that a lot of women will do the same, of thier own volition. Why the heck would I persue a woman who's only given me a lukewarm reception at best? | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/9/2008 2:17:56 PM |
I have to disagree with women controlling relationships. Women do not control relationships. Women control the flow of sex and the only way a woman can control that is if men can't control their desire for sex. Control that desire, and she can't use that to control the relationship. I agree that we are often victims of our own making, but I disagree that we are solely victims of our own making.
I have been saying this for years. You cannot control someone without their permission to do so.
No woman could ever control a man with sex again, if men could get this simple idea through their head. As long as men continue to have sex be the overriding thing in their minds most of the time... They might as well just tack a sign on their head that says "use me." In the exact same way, if a woman is desperate for love and will do anything to get it... she might as well borrow the sign too. Luckily they are unisex. They are trading one thing to get another thing that they want. However you slice it, it's a recipe for disaster somewhere along the line.
In my experience, men and women are horrible judges of character. They tend to ignore red flags, weigh pros and cons unevenly and allow optimism to harm them rather than help them. This is so true. But it's a double edged sword. If you are cautious and look before you step, people accuse you of having "baggage" when really all you have is a modicum of common sense.
Maybe a better term would be "cauious optimism" when dealing with a new relationship.
I look very carefully for the red flags, but it's because I don't want to do anything that is going to eventually cause me harm. I am not only considering myself, but also the situation I put my children in. You cannot change anyone, nor should you seek to, so keeping your eyes open and your brain working logically is a good idea.
Some men are easy to control if you want to. I just don't want to, controlling myself is a full time job, thanks. I believe when you seek to control someone else, you become responsible in part for the outcome. I find people that are easily manipulated to be outside of my level of interest either male or female. If you cannot maintain your own boundaries you will very likely ignore the boundaries of others as well.
Women have a nasty habit in confiding in me, and some of the things that
come out of their mouths, of these poor innocent victims lol, sound more like Attila The Hun! The men they are involved with, have no idea what's really going on! I'm not talking of infidelity, but of the woman's secret agenda! I would suggest that you know some pretty unpleasant women. I would imagine far more women confide in me than they do a man (unless he is gay...), and I don't hear that. While I admire the p-whipping skills as an art form, I think they are sort of icky and most certainly have no respect for either the whipper or the whippee. | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/9/2008 2:27:44 PM | Crayonzz...
Go for it!
Still waiting for this proof | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/9/2008 2:34:10 PM | Finally...
It has been said here by others...
this isn't a gender based issue.
Simple to understand....
If someone isn't interested in you...how do you know?
THEY DO NOT RESPOND TO MESSAGES IN A TIMELY MANNER.
Do you continue to be interested in someone who has shown you that they are not interested in you? NOPE. move on....
My final word (plus one)....
The OP expressed a point of view. Which it probably common for both men and women...
why not take it as information to be used? Such as... say to yourself...
"hummm... ok, since that is how those actions are interpreted..in the future I will use that information. If I don't respond back for a long while... I will know that there is every chance I will be ignored then."
Seems like using information freely given is the right way to take in the many points of view. Instead of just arguing against it. | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/9/2008 3:31:41 PM |
It would also explain why so many women are bitter. One man like this rampaging through the female population, will sully the path for 20 decent and men who come after him. Once again, it's men creating more problems for men.
I just wish women wouldn't fall for the obvious nonsense. Then the path wouldn't be ruined. | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/9/2008 3:42:52 PM |
No woman could ever control a man with sex again, if men could get this simple idea through their head. As long as men continue to have sex be the overriding thing in their minds most of the time... They might as well just tack a sign on their head that says "use me." In the exact same way, if a woman is desperate for love and will do anything to get it... she might as well borrow the sign too.
For a man at least, to refuse to be controlled or be a controller is often to be alone in this society.
If someone isn't interested in you...how do you know?
THEY DO NOT RESPOND TO MESSAGES IN A TIMELY MANNER.
Everyone has a different idea of 'timely', 'too soon', and 'too late'. | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/9/2008 3:47:41 PM | Mominitrix: Since Men confide in me too, I guess I'm safe from being Gay! lol
Women are often very threatened I find, when men make any inroads into the TRUTH!
Yes, for whatever reason, it would appear that I know some rather unpleasant women!
The thing is, even with the apparent nice ones, I keep finding the same nasty people under the facade! And don't get me wrong, I have no issues or battles with these women! Maybe I did in the past, as part of my education but now, they're strictly just teachers I guess! lol
I'm sure you will have some of your "FINAL" words on this as well! lol | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/9/2008 3:50:58 PM | I think the idea of pursuing for either gender has all sort of different connotations.
I don't like the idea of being chased, I don't run.
What I do think works out best, rather than equal, mutual. Equal to me connotes 50/50 which means mentally keeping track. I don't like that, it's more like a barter IMO.
It's fine to express interest, and see if the other person reciprocates. That's what I call mutual. It's also fairly simple, you know if you're interested in someone or not. No mental gymanstics over that. Interest can build, wane or flat out end with a thud. As long as it's maintaining a fairly steady pace, then it would seem there'd be something to work with.
To me that just makes good ole common sense.  | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/9/2008 4:39:26 PM |
For a man at least, to refuse to be controlled or be a controller is often to be alone in this society. It is better to have loved and lost, than to be married to a psycho.
I just wish women wouldn't fall for the obvious nonsense. Then the path wouldn't be ruined. One could say the same for your gender.
Everyone has a different idea of 'timely', 'too soon', and 'too late'. Which may be at the crux of the issue. When you have a high level of enthusiasm, you will usually respond with sooner, rather than later.
All I sought to say was that sooner may be better than later. Your mileage may vary. | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/9/2008 10:42:16 PM |
It is better to have loved and lost, than to be married to a psycho.
True, but doesn't change anything.
One could say the same for your gender.
lol. It's not the same. You know this.
Which may be at the crux of the issue. When you have a high level of enthusiasm, you will usually respond with sooner, rather than later.
Unless you're shy to some degree, where more enthusiasm = more nervousness, which causes the exact opposite condition. Yeah, yeah... any sign of shyness is a reason to reject the guy anyway... I know. | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/10/2008 3:27:46 AM | Women are just as capable of persuing a man as vice versa, we'd all do a little better if maybe women didn't just expect men to be the ones chasing them down all the time.
Plus remember there's a level we're supposed to be hitting, looking interested but not too interested. Some guys will never call a woman and never be without some woman chasing after him, other guys will put themselves to the hazzard quickly and be deemed too over eager.
It's all a bunch of epic fail if you ask me, the more interested the better the person isn't standing outside of the object of their desire's window A.k.A "hiding in the bushes" with a nightvision camera and spray on deoderant stomping all over the person's rose bushes. | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/11/2008 3:02:18 AM | alexistaylor,
Translation: I like guys to stick their necks out all the way, by telling me very clearly they're interested in me. And if they don't, I'll assume they're NOT interested and forget about them. I think more guys should do this, because it wears me out to have to interpret all sorts of little ambiguities in the behavior of the guys I communicate with.
Well, of course you'd like that! So would I, if the sexes were switched. You may find guys willing to submit themselves flat out to your thumbs-up or thumbs-down, so that you don't have to go to the trouble of interpreting the subtler signs of interest people often give at first to test the waters.
Where is it written that this process should be more difficult for me, as a man, so that it will be easier for you and other women? I don't see any justification for forcing me to run all the risk of rejection just to relieve you of it. It seems like you imagine you deserve special treatment just by virtue of your sex.
That's an idea from another time, when men were willing to go to greater lengths to win a fair lady because they were compensated with all sorts of privileges not available to them now. | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/11/2008 6:35:52 AM | | I do pursue not too much, but enough to show the keen interest signs. It is the women, who failed to read it, that makes me loose interest in them and move on. | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/11/2008 7:36:53 AM |
The fact of the matter is that YOUNG, good-looking, and highly desirable women simply do not want a guy to contact them too soon or too frequently. Modern "American" man has been emasculated via Oprah, Dr. Phil, US public education, Hillary Clinton and everything else and these girls have just been completely overrun by these spineless, needy, nice guys. They want a "real man", the alpha male that exhibits all things manly. "Real men" pursue, but they generally don't care if they get the girl or not. Why should he? Many flock to him. This indifferent attitude is what attracts girls.
The problem, of course is that "bad boys" give off the aura of the "real man" and women are so emotional that they often can't tell the difference.
So by the time even reasonably good-looking women are 35, many have been played so many times that they've grown tired of the games and "bad boys" that they want someone upfront and honest. By then of course, they are probably divorced with two kids. Yeah no kidding they want the nice guy to swoop in and call everyday and show interest. The "nice-no-games-kind-of-guy" is the sucker.
The thing with attracting girls is that girls of different ages act very differently. One way does not work on 18 year olds and 45 year olds. Biologically these girls are very different and their experiences (read: wisdom) are even more different.
I couldn't agree more!..as women get older they start to realise that the type of guys the were attracted to when they were younger is not really what they need and want anymore..then they try to start dtaing the "nic eguys" when they have a ton of baggage..when its now too late, and they are less appelaing to men. | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/11/2008 7:57:41 AM |
I couldn't agree more!..as women get older they start to realise that the type of guys the were attracted to when they were younger is not really what they need and want anymore..then they try to start dtaing the "nic eguys" when they have a ton of baggage..when its now too late, and they are less appelaing to men.
Youth is for having fun and learning from your mistakes. You're supposed to make mistakes. People are supposed to want you for who you are as a person. Why should it matter how old the woman is if you love her for who she is on the inside? | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/11/2008 8:24:58 AM | Everyone has given such articulate and interesting information here so I do not have much to add. I DID happen to look at the OP's profile and I read the 'ABOUT ME' portion.
What I read there told me all I need to know. With no offense, I believe the OP needs to reexamine HER behaviors in order to get to the root of this problem that the 'man' may have. HMPH! | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/11/2008 1:39:13 PM |
The problem, however, is that if a guy is very enthusiastic about a woman, it tends to scare her off like crazy. Kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario -- guys who express genuine interest in a woman are considered creepy and guys who play it cool are considered players
PRECISELY!!..women are so hard to please..its like if you come on to aggressively and show a lot of interest and that you are genuinely interested..she may very well think you are needy, desperate and the likes and if you do the opposite she will think you are not showing interest and you are too laidback, shy or whatever else..its almost like a no win situtaion..meh | |
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| Do you pursue?
Posted: 6/11/2008 2:33:23 PM |
Where is it written that this process should be more difficult for me, as a man, so that it will be easier for you and other women? I don't see any justification for forcing me to run all the risk of rejection just to relieve you of it. It seems like you imagine you deserve special treatment just by virtue of your sex.
Nah, you're whining. I tell a man I'm talking to whether I like him or not. I figure, I'm terrible at taking subtle hints, and I can't expect a guy to do it. If anything, I overcommunicate about how I feel about someone.
And from the men I've spoken to, apparently women do the running-off-at-clear-statement-of-interest thing. I don't understand why. If anything, I get way more excited about a guy when he gives me something to work with, like expressed interest. If he's just being a bump on a log and hoping I'll magically figure him out with my mind-reading powers, too bad. I get disgruntled when I don't get affection back. | |
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