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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 6/11/2008 9:32:01 AM | Hi,
That wasn't the study of seduction that did that. That was a lack of maturity. He was that kind of guy already. You just didn't see it. Blaming those pick up techniques for his behavior is like blaming a car for an accident. The car is only a tool to get you where you want to go. How you handle that tool is up to the individual.
Lateef | |
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 6/11/2008 10:08:16 AM | | There's nothing like a nice guy with "an edge" If these books help men to achieve a quiet confidence that is contagious than so be it. Thing is there are too many who can't handle what they've learned. It just becomes a big ole addiction and they eventually don't have the inclination or the ability to stick with a good catch because it's just too easy to catch another. If these authors put a little bit more in their literature about love, and the feelings of those birds they are sharming out of the trees, then I would be recommending them to every male I know. Cause like I said; theres nothing like a guy with an edge and who understands the mind of a woman. | |
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 6/11/2008 10:08:30 AM | Call me old fashioned but I subscribe to the Count Dracula book of seduction.
"Look! Look into my eyes." You are powerless to resist me..."
Usually works except if the woman has eaten something with garlic in it earlier that night. | |
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 6/11/2008 10:15:44 AM | Cosmo articles and books aren't accurate..and most of the time far from the truth...I give kudos to guys who want to understand women and improve on themselves..however being defined by a book is nuts...what if the book was called "all men are sex addicts"? "all men are Gay" . Would you want to be defined by these books or any book? Or would you like to be defined on your own merits. Since when did men stop talking to women about how they feel and resorted to books? The only way you will find out about others is to ask them. Don't be brain dead...and allow your books to do your thinking for you...trust your own instincts. | |
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 6/11/2008 10:55:38 AM | | Well, I am a man, so I must act like one. This is what they act like. I am a real man, I just pinched myself to make sure. So anyone wanting to know how to act like a man would have to learn to act like me. I haven't beel able to tell the dirrerence between boys and men. Boys have girlfriends. I want a girlfriend, so I had better learn to act like a boy. I'm working on it. | |
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 6/11/2008 11:33:27 AM | I have a friend that believes you cannot get a woman without them but he is different than the type of guy sweetthang100 described. He naturally employs these strategies and I believe always had but after reading about them he now understands what he is doing. It is a turnoff to me because if someone is that calculating that they are truly totally consciously doing it and as part of a strategy rather than the way they approach women anyway, that is just sort of ookie.
And I think sweetthang is correct, the strategies work marginally for getting a woman but there needs to be a significant change in tactics to keep one. | |
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 6/11/2008 12:26:29 PM | | I keep up with the PUA life for fun. I suggest to any woman who has encountered a man who is useing any of the above mentioned methods, such as Mystery, NLP, DHV, do not allow negging, or anything of the sort, but be nice about it. Only return his calls if he calls twice or more. If on the phone with him, make sure to end all calls first, Make sure the first few dates only last a couple of hours, always end the date first. Do not allow yourself to go on last minute dates. Make him prove his intentions to you. Never initiate dates. Gamers will get bored, and then drop you. This will keep only the good men around and he will be drowning you with his want for you. But hey you haven't slept with him at this point, so you haven't lost anything. I suggest to any girls, that don't want any of these games pulled on them to go and read a book called "The Rules". This will destroy any mans attempt to game you. I love to study PUA. I noticed that most of these men are attention starved baffoons, who are focusing on getting as many women into the sack as fast as possible. This is just an attempt to feed their personal ego's. A vain attempt to make themselves feel better. Because obviously they are trying to fill that void with personal conquests, instead of focusing on the issues they really have. Even Mystery himself has attempted suicide, several times. Humh. I wonder why this is. If a man uses you and dumps. Than learn from the experience and don't let it happen again. DHV yourselves girls. Have higher value in yourself. Notice that these men actually have low self esteem. If a guy hits you and dumps you. It was not you, the man had full intention of doing this to you, and actually has future plans of doing it to any girl they get the attentions of, in the first place. Take the time to get to know him, and then you decide. Let men approach, do not be scared of that. Be weary of his actions because only girls with high self esteems love with their heart and their head. Be smart. I am not the prettiest | |
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 6/11/2008 1:09:13 PM |
I think the whole appeal of the genre of literature under discussion is that "just be yourself" isn't doing a damn thing for lots of guys, no matter how many people preach it enthusiastically, or how often. Those women who do preach it should put their money where their mouths are and have relationships with men who are just being themselves -- i.e., not doing anything special.
Ok, so once the guy concludes that something more than just being himself is required, such as the various aspects of the traditional male role which women call "being a REAL man", or "having balls", then the question becomes "what else you got besides just being myself?", to which the answer is "become a pick-up artist".
True. I think in the end women want a guy to be his true honest self, but they HOPE that true honest self if the PUA/alpha male personality...as well as HOPE he wants a monogamous relationship and not just random rolls in the hay.
Like I said, anything that helps guys get out of being shy and/or boring and into taking chances is a good thing, but if a guy has to put on a whole act to get a girl, then she's not worth it. This is along the lines when I keep telling women that they generally can't have both in life. They can't have the PUA type who can get any woman in the room AND have him be into commitment and monogamy.
"Nice Guys with an Edge" does exist, but it depends on how the woman defines "edge". If it's a guy with interests, hobbies, confidence, and his own independent life, then I can see that. If it's mysterious, wild, unpredictable, sly and smooth (like a playa), then in my book that's a recipe for a great initial start-off but her complaining later why he won't be a good man to her or why he won't commit.
I personally stand by making standards. I will be my confident self. I will live my life and be interesting in my own regards, but if women want me to become a fantasy that no man can fulfill without lying, then I will remain single, stand back, and see how many failures those particular women face before they come to reality.
Take me or move on. I can only be a man to women. If that's not good enough than good luck to you. | |
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 6/11/2008 1:42:33 PM | | I don't have to be the prettiest, to get a males attention. Men fall in love with a womens essence. But, I want to let you know that I am not going to reduce myself in my, or others eyes, just because I am getting some male attention. No female should disgrace their femaleness no matter the fact, that we assume that the sexual revolution has said we could. No matter what men say. They can say they are flattered when you approach them. They can say they want a girl who makes the first move. Ultimately men don't really fall for the woman that was easy to get, or showed interest in them first. You are ruining their basic instinct, of the chase. Men are getting spoiled by women, they really don't want the affection of. If he did want you, he would do anything possible to get your attention. Men want to think they are getting the beauty queen, the homecomeing queen, the unobtainable. Think about it this way, we haven't evolutionized from our basic natural instincts. Men always have been hunters. It is proven in the sports they take up, and the games they play. You may think that they have passed this stage, but honestly they are just neanderthals, in more human clothing. Make them want to be the man for you, by giving them a chase. If they do not chase, they were not interested in you in the first place, and only interested in a notch in the bed post. | |
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 6/11/2008 1:54:31 PM |
defines "edge". If it's a guy with interests, hobbies, confidence, and his own independent life, then I can see that. add humour and respect, the ablility to be challenging yet not appear aloof and disinterested in me.. then in my eyes, you've got an "edge" | |
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 6/11/2008 3:23:34 PM | | There was a movie that came out a few years back called "Swingers". (No, not that kind of swingers). It was inspired by the neo-swing music craze of the time and the lounge lizard lifestyle. It is about 2 guys, one cannot do anything wrong when it comes to women, the other cannot do anything right. Rent this film and it will tell you more than anything Mystery and the NLP people will. There is a scene where the clueless guy attempts to phone a woman he just met which may be one of the most painful things I have seen on film. Highly recommended for everyone. | |
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 6/11/2008 3:43:55 PM |
So why would I not recommend pick-up to guys who are looking to find a quality girl? When apparently pick-up helped this guy get a lot of love from me? It's not what pick up does to girls, it's what it does to the guys who use it.
Even if you make every girl in the room swoon, in the long run, these silly games undermine your confidence in who you are when you’re just yourself. What’s missing in the lessons from DeAngelo versus those from grandma are that grandma is telling you to act like you have high self-esteem (even when feeling low) because she knows you, loves you, and genuinely wants you to love yourself. When D’Angelo tells you to do the same, it is purely a tactic to get attention from people who, if you acted like yourself, wouldn’t deem you worthy of love/attention. The effect on the girl may be the same, but the effect on the guy’s self-image is very different.
At first there will be a rush of pride that you have acquired all these new potent skills, but it undermines your ability to believe in unconditional love, love of your faults and fumblings, and love of your insecurities. You start thinking that even those close to you love you for all the fake things that made you more attractive in a crowded room, and that messes with your sense of self.
What you're describing sounds like "The Sorcerer's Aprentice" or any kind of German Fairy Tale/Fable from the "use dark magic to increase your power/lose yourself" tradition.
Also, I'm guessing your boyfriend was young. So that's probably the kind of guy who would take this stuff the wrong way, as a kind of mask to hide his low self-esteem behind.
Many guys have commented on Eezk's post and a few women too, that it is a way for a guy who is naturally a c0cky, confident alpha male type to begin with to simply realize more effectively what it is that he does which makes him successful with women.
I still wonder, however, if this is making him successful with only certain types of women. D'Angelo breaks women up into 9 victim types, (which I find just fascinating). So what if a women is outside one of those types? Some guys have commented, "why is D'Angelo any worse than girls reading Cosmo, and their seduction guides for women" but the truth is, not all girls read Cosmo. Is a D'Angelo guy ONLY going to find a Cosmo girl? Are they the ultimate mating, as they seem to be sociallized the same? | |
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 6/11/2008 5:34:10 PM | Well, I never read a book about it but over the years I developed a sure fire seduction method that has worked for me almost without fail on a number of women. It's not that much of a secret so I'm willing to share it.
First of all you need to pick out a woman who seems to be attracted to you at least a little. You can usually tell if she makes eye contact, talks to you, some will even approach you first and touch you, a very good sign.
The next step is to talk to her, find out what she likes and ask to take her out on a date. If you find she has a lot of the smae interests as you, it's easy to find things that will appeal; to her. Now the technique is to make her feel she is appreciated. What you do is alway do what you say you are going to do. Compliment her on her appearence, her taste in clothes. bring her little presents. You don't want to overwhelm her or make her think you are trying to buy her. Just make her feel you are thinking of her and noticing her and approve of her. It helps a lot to include her in other activities, introduce her to your friend and family if they are around. Ask her for advice on small things, like furniture arranging, take her shopping and let her help you pick out clothes. You might even get her little things for herself. Lots of women love scarves, or inexpensive pieces of jewelry. Be sure to compliment her on how nice they look on her.
after 3 or 4 dates you should arrange to get her alone, either at your place or hers. Let her suggest it. Almost all women will by this time. Getting her to fix dinner is a great ploy or even better, fix a dinner for her. Be sure to have a nice wine available unless of course she doesn't drink. By this time you have no doubt a least kissed her a time or two on previous dated. Now you can kiss her gently again and tell her how special she is an how much you like her. She will usually then take you by the hand and lead you into the bed room. Works almost every time.
It has been a while for me though, but I don't think things have changed all that much. Lets see, the last girl I tried the technique on, it was about 25 years ago if I remember correctly. I invited her over to my place on our third date. I didn't fix dinner or anything because I'd taken her out to a nice restaurant earlier. I did play music for her, the kind I knew she liked. When I kissed her, she just looked so cute and dekicious standing there with her head****d to one side, she wrapped her arms around my neck and pulled her self up against me and sort of whispered in my ear in a hoarce throaty voice, "do you have feelings for mer?" Naturally, I said yes. So she lead me into the bedroom and took off her clothes and lay down on the bed. Like i said it works every time, almost anyway. and I've been seducing her a couple of times a week ever since for the last 25 years.
Seriously though guys, the whole seduction thing is actually a silly kind of ploy. My observation is that if a woman would date you a few times and feels you treat her with interest and conderation. when she starts to feel safe and that you care about her as a person she is usually quite ready to go to bed with you. Men ask in that manner and the women decide. It's quite simple really, pretty much the way we select our mates in the present day. | |
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 6/11/2008 8:26:00 PM | "Make them want to be the man for you, by giving them a chase. If they do not chase, they were not interested in you in the first place, and only interested in a notch in the bed post."
So, basically , you're playing the same game the "pick-up" guys are playing. I don't mind being the aggressor while dating. But, my time is very limited. If a woman is cutting dates and phone calls short, I'll move on. It's not that I'm not interested, sincere or patient. I'm all those in spades. Plus, I only date one woman at a time. It's just that I have a few short hours per week of free time. All those things you wrote about would send a message that she's really not that interested. I don't believe in chasing anyone. I learned at an early age, the women you have to chase are usually the women who give you the most hassle in the long run. Be easy (to spend time with), be fun, have good conversation, be confident. Thats all it takes for me.
By the way, Ellen Fein, the co-author of"The Rules" got divorced in 2001. Right in the middle of the release for their follow up book, "The Rules for Marriage: Time-Tested Secrets for Making Your Marriage Work." Just a thought.
Lateef | |
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 6/11/2008 9:54:24 PM | > (grkboy) I think in the end women want a guy to be his true honest self,
> but they HOPE that true honest self if the PUA/alpha male personality
Or, as one acquaintance astutely once put it, they want a nice guy but they want him to earn his way to equality with her supposed magnificence by seducing her with all the skill of an expert player/neanderthal -- as Ms. Duran, herself a true neanderthal and therefore an expert on being one, so clearly illustrated in her post... "A barbarian is one who thinks the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature." (George Bernard Shaw)
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 6/11/2008 10:29:05 PM | Re: Msg #50 with regards to Msg#41:
Ya gotta love it when a women states something about men like it's gospel.. then a man comes in and says how wrong she is. Which leads me to the correct answer.... all men are different and ya just can't paint em all with one brush. | |
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 6/11/2008 11:08:13 PM | eazk, you are so right.
I checked it out. Most of it was pretty intuitive, but reading it and thinking about it is an interesting exercise. Sometimes you reflect back on situations in the past and think how you might have handled them better or differently. What I got from it was:
1) Be confident, not arrogant or wussy
2) Be yourself, more important don't be someone you are not.
3) Lighten up. Laugh. Dating should be enjoyable for both parties.
4) Have a life of your own. Your own friends, interests, and activities.
I've shared the material with several female friends who in turn have given it to their teenage sons, boyfriends, husbands.
That being said, I had no use for the material dealing with bars, neg theory, pick-up lines, or stunts promoted by some of the young authors. I guess that stuff works for the college crowd, but not applicable to a more sophisticated audience. | |
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 6/11/2008 11:24:20 PM | I have; in this, I mean playful seduction and not manipulaiton, and I think it's just as much fun for me as him 
I mean, when he comes in close to give you a smooch, and embraces ya, well... the hand can feel the lace of a garter belt discretely warn under a nice dress. There is so much to the Atre de sedu'cion (said with a french accent and pouty lips), it just takes playfulness and imagination~ and who doesn't like that!
Happy phishing, friends | |
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