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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 6/12/2008 9:05:24 AM | I have read the Mystery Method. I think the guy is right on, about his insights to relationships and social dynamics. That's the significant knowledge to me.
I even had experienced what he calls the "buyers remorse" where you hook up with a girl you met out one night, and the next day she is "oh my god, I am so embarrassed" and what you thought was a good connection ends up going nowhere fast. Word for word, what he described is what I experienced.
Also, I go out a lot and I see a lot of guys are using these pick up techniques.
Having said that, I prefer the straight forward technique to Mystery's magic tricks.
If I approach a woman and I end up feeling like I have to continuously amuse her and the convo is just me asking her questions, even if she seems into it, then I will move on. I need to be stimulated as well. | |
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 6/12/2008 9:11:54 AM |
Ahhhhh, you girls (and most guys) are SOOOOOOO missing the point.
The purpose of what you call "behavior strategies" is not to seduce the woman, it is to help the boy become more of a man.
Our society has largely stripped away the ability for boys to mature normally, so what you have is a lot of boys who don't know how to communicate, how to act, how to lead, and this is manifested in their relationships with women, although it is significantly evident in their ability to relate to other adult males.
IF YOU TAKE THE TIME to actually go out and observe and understand what some of these "teachers" are saying, you'll soon start to see it's about helping boys learn what is important to them in becoming men, and what it is that women want and seek in relationship...namely, MEN with an edge.
So, if the boys are simply going to acting school, then yes, I agree with SweetThang~...their cover will be blown quickly. BUTTTTT, if they start learning life lessons they should've learned at 15 and they integrate this into who they really are, then what you end up with is a man you'd like to date. This is simply the education these poor young boys didn't get from their dad's or other men in their life.
It's a shame that our society has so transformed that jerks and wusses comprise 90+% of the adult males out there. It wasn't that way when men had to be accountable for their actions...now, everything is a blame game.
As a woman, you can say you don't like the fact that they're being educated...after all, shouldn't this all just be magical? But that is BS...no one instinctively "knows" all the rules...girls are just much better at socializing the analysis at a young age...and the boys are left bewildered and unable to meet their needs. And then you b!tch because they don't know how to sense the right moment that you want them to slide their hand around your waist, to hold and slightly pull your hair while kissing, to brush the back or their hand over your breast as they are raising it to your face to hold your face in their hands when they kiss you...and about a million other things.
Y'all don't willingly offer up instruction manuals, and now you want to kick the boys for trying to learn via a different route. The truth is, you want a man who has power, strength and an ability to make you feel like a woman, but you cannot be the one to empower him otherwise you forever hold the power. So asking him to get to know you first and then maybe you'll teach him the secrets is stupid...and a certain recipe for divorce.
Men need to learn their role in an adult relationship...and Mom's can't teach it to them...Mom's say "Just be nice"...he11, you all say "Looking for a nice man", but what you really want is a man who has an edge, who excites you, who makes your toes curl when you think about him.
Heck, what you ought to be doing is flagging the ones who don't use it and sending them hyperlinks of where to start. We'd have a lot more satisfied women and relationships.
Actually.. this makes a lot of sense. Men from broken families of children of wokaholc fathers never learning how to be men... I only wish there were books like these for women! You know, not all women have been "socializing analysis at younger age" either ... some of us had missed that phase, just like boys... by focusing on being A+ students for example (how stupid is THAT)... some of us could use some learning, too. | |
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 6/12/2008 9:26:50 AM | > Men from broken families of children of wokaholc fathers never learning how to be men...
I think you're mistakenly presuming every dad in an intact family is some expert on women, rather than the sort of guy you see around here all the time in the forums who's totally confused by women, proclaiming that he'll never understand them, etc. -- which better describes all the fathers and married men I've ever known. It's not like boys have secret classes where they're taught any of this stuff. At most one might hear, growing up, a tidbit of advice or wisdom here and there, but certainly nothing in the way of a coherent and all-encompassing model. Hence the appeal to some of this genre of literature, not that I think the models they present are very good. It's just that some model or framework is better than none at all (or an even crummier one).
> I only wish there were books like these for women!
They're on ever grocery store magazine checkout rack: just look like a million dollars, wait for the bees to buzz on in, then just be yourself and react however you feel like at the moment. I thought every girl learned this before leaving junior high. | |
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 6/12/2008 9:32:49 AM |
I think you're mistakenly presuming every dad in an intact family is some expert on women, rather than the sort of guy you see around here all the time in the forums who's totally confused by women, proclaiming that he'll never understand them, etc. -- which better describes all the fathers and married men I've ever known. It's not like boys have secret classes where they're taught any of this stuff. At most one might hear, growing up, a tidbit of advice or wisdom here and there, but certainly nothing in the way of a coherent and all-encompassing model. Hence the appeal to some of this genre of literature, not that I think the models they present are very good. It's just that some model or framework is better than none at all (or an even crummier one).
I think a man has to be gay to completely understand women... hence every woman's dream of a gay friend. I think "real men" don't undertand women any more than "real women" understand men... while I agree that a father probably can't teach his son to understand women (if anyone, mothers and sisters can), a father can and normally does serve as a role model, teaching him how to be a man... which is what women dig, right?
They're on ever grocery store magazine checkout rack: just look like a million dollars, wait for the bees to buzz on in, then just be yourself and react however you feel like at the moment. I thought every girl learned this before leaving junior high. Ah, that's what YOU think. Read the first few paragraphs of "Gone with the wind", you'll know what I am talking about. | |
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 6/12/2008 12:04:59 PM | Actually.. this makes a lot of sense. Men from broken families of children of wokaholc fathers never learning how to be men... I only wish there were books like these for women! You know, not all women have been "socializing analysis at younger age" either ... some of us had missed that phase, just like boys... by focusing on being A+ students for example (how stupid is THAT)... some of us could use some learning, too.
It's true. My Dad never told me any thing about women. Neither did my Mom. Nobody told them anything either.
Instead I grew up watching Male Bashing day time talk shows and sensationalized sexual harrassment suits on TV and seeing picket lines of angry women protesting the sale of porn in front of convenience stores. I watched my older sister roll her eyes at guys who said "Hi" to her. I actually grew up thinking that women hated Sex and Men in general. I didn't want to be hated, so I did not risk it.
Don't get me wrong, I have had plenty of female attention in my life. But it was always passive on my part. I wanted them only because they wanted me. Only then could I be sure. It took me a long time to be a Man about it.
And I have made some great male friends in the so called "seduction community". It was more a coming of age and bonding experience than merely trying to score.
And fortunately now, I still can seize it and embrace it. | |
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 6/12/2008 4:43:49 PM | I'm not an expert on all of these books, but if you are looking for loveless sex with a drug-addicted stripper who was abused as a child and is desperate for any male attention or approval, the mystery method may work. Use a condom.
If you want an actual relationship, obviously not. | |
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 6/13/2008 1:37:30 AM |
I think a man has to be gay to completely understand women... hence every woman's dream of a gay friend.
I completely understand women and can assure you I am anything but gay, or woman's dream.
a father can and normally does serve as a role model, teaching him how to be a man... which is what women dig, right?
Role models are way over-rated. The most important person in determining the course of a boy's life is his mom not his dad, and her model of what a man is supposed to be like is her dad. Similarly, the most important person in a girl's life is her father, whose model of what a woman is supposed to be like is his mother.
I think "real men" don't undertand women any more than "real women" understand men...
Ha! There's no such thing as "real women". There are just women. Period.
Perhaps your definition of "real men" requires that they don't understand women, since there are obvious advantages to keeping the other sex confused.
And of course women understand men, totally. They're all experts. Just ask one about us some time and she'll extol a long discourse all about us. | |
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 6/13/2008 3:03:20 PM |
"A barbarian is one who thinks the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature." (George Bernard Shaw)
Very well said.
It seems that DeAngelo will state many "laws" which are actually much more like an anecdote blown out of proportion.
For instance, I read an internet post on one of his seduction communities where a guy was writing in to ask why a certain girl didn't like him/wouldn't date him/wanted to be just friends after he had given her numerous expensive gifts. DeAngelo's answer was basically it was because he was "being a wuss." If his advice stopped here, it would be very good advice. In fact, many threads on POF complaining about gold diggers have similar advice from both men and women telling a disappointed, rejected guy who spent alot of money on a woman only to have her leave, that you can't buy someone's attraction to you.
But DeAngelo goes on to explain, as if it is a "law" of nature that women will always take as much as they can for as long as you offer it. This is a pretty paranoid statement and though it accurately describes some women (and men), it hardly describes them all.
So my question for the guys who say DeAngelo is helpful in relationships is this: Do slightly paranoid statements of this kind fall away from your thinking once you've mastered the behavior he is trying to teach, (i.e, don't be a sap and give your date everything she asks for and even things she doesn't ask for), or is this attitude always in the back of your mind after 6 months, 2 years, a decade...that your girlfriend or wife will take everything she can get out of you if you'd let her. | |
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JWills
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Joined: 12/7/2007
Msg: 63 | |
| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 6/13/2008 3:50:10 PM | There are actually some insightful comments on here. Now's my two cents.
I've read a bit of this material. I don't use it, but I will say its worth reading.
Here's my suggestion: Start with "The Game" by Neil Strauss (Style). It's a novel about his introduction into the seduction community. In and of itself it is an awesome read and one I suggest to everybody, I couldn't put it down, and it talks alot about seduction. There's some tips in there if you want them, but overall a great great introduction. But it gives a very good perspective of what the community is. Also, he brings up its downfalls very well.
Don't read the Mystery Method, at least not first, and definitly don't read The Art of Seduction First, its too deep and pretty much worthless. And... DeAngelo is an idiot.
For real, read The Game, its a great book. | |
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 7/27/2008 1:21:20 AM | | What's misunderstood about the pickup arts is that the canned stuff is only supposed to be a crutch to get a guy comfortable talking to a girl. It's really cheesy otherwise and it is see through. After the beginning you're supposed to simply be confident enough to carry your own conversations and to create your own dialogue. Sometimes it helps to know a way to strike up a conversation from nothing but really it should be personalized. Indeed, the algorithm works to create attraction...that's why it was developed and it is the algorithm that is important in pickup, not the canned words. All flirting interactions are based on push/pull whether it's a pickup artist using the technique intentionally or not. Alpha males use the same stuff, they simply do it without realizing what they're doing. In reality a good PUA learns how the elements of inner game (confidence, poise, internalizations, etc), framing, and compliance work to create strong bonds between people. Personally, the concept of compliance has treated me well in relationships and I use it to gauge what my girlfriend needs from me in terms of attention...increased compliance means she wants your attention, decreased compliance means your giving too much. A good PUA can use this same theory to generate attraction spikes with his partner. I've found this to be fun sometimes. I guess it depends on the person and how they're using the stuff. | |
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 7/27/2008 4:57:29 AM | | The fact is Mystery charges £1500 for a session and had his own TV show. He's a rich man. Neil Strauss wrote his best selling book 'The Game' so he is comfortable too. In fact most PUA's are well off given the prices they charge. I'm not sure they would get the women they get without the money and fame behind them but I having said that I think some men, if not most men struggle to attract women. Therefore people like Mystery and Neil Strauss provide very good information and they have changed people's lives. | |
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 7/27/2008 7:10:25 AM |
Men need to learn their role in an adult relationship...and Mom's can't teach it to them...Mom's say "Just be nice"...he11, you all say "Looking for a nice man", but what you really want is a man who has an edge, who excites you, who makes your toes curl when you think about him.
Nope, actually looking for a nice guy. So called "men with an edge" do nothing for me at all. | |
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 7/27/2008 7:23:58 AM | Well I never!!! I didn't know all of this existed. I am just a small town country girl. But......I do know that there is an art to seducing someone and that comes naturally. It only gets turned on when you really want to experience the totality of being with someone you are attracted to. Wow. Will wonders never cease? I am the proper English teacher out there in the world but with my man, seduction is a long term prospect that really never, ever stops. Why would it? Hello? I think we all live in different worlds sometimes.
I like the idea though that there is something out there in the world of weak male role models on TV to educate boys on how to become men. I really like that idea. My seductive wiles only get activated by men. I have noticed the boys really need good role models. | |
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 7/27/2008 3:21:33 PM | The seduction techniques work only if there is some sort of initial attraction. They may help a situation where the girl or guy (it's not really gender-dependent) is vacillating. If someone finds you completely unattractive or somehow unacceptable, these techniques will do very little. Conversely, if someone finds you very attractive (physically and otherwise), they're often willing to overlook certain "flaws" including lack of good "seduction technique." It's when someone is wavering/luke warm that these techniques can (but will not necessarily) make a difference.
Let's face it, if Brad Pitt comes off like an insecure mouse around a woman, most women will overlook it! Conversely, there "ain't no" technique that's gonna get a woman interested in the Hunchback of Notre Dame! | |
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 7/27/2008 3:36:32 PM |
I think a man has to be gay to completely understand women... hence every woman's dream of a gay friend. I think "real men" don't undertand women any more than "real women" understand men...
That is so fairy true!
Even more on the point, my father helped me learn at a very young age that it was a waste of time to try and figure out women. As it is the same for women to figure out men.. Why stress over a question that has been asked and unanswered since the apple was bitten?
All of those unique things women do for what ever reason, is what makes them so damn attractive..
Rock! | |
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eazk
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Joined: 9/8/2006
Msg: 72 | |
| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 7/27/2008 6:10:37 PM | Sure, StillClock~...
NLP?
programs?
DVD's?
i don't know. i might just feel so flattered that anyone felt they had to work so hard to bed me i'd kiss them anyway!
whatever happened to just asking?
har!
a
Now exactly how does one
(a) go about finding that place where the greatest opportunity to me someone is...and
(b) be prepared to exhibit attraction qualities so as to properly exchange an interest in getting to know the other person...then
(c) manage to support that effort long enough that you can make a connection, get a sense for whether there might be more than two ships passing in the night.
If that knowledge, those skills, the ability to develop an honest relationship have been diluted like 90% of the potential daters out there...you need to learn and improve your behavior style such that you can initiate opportunities in a comfortable, confident, real manner. It doesn't take long to understand if you're meeting the type of person you want to spend time with...and if you don't, nicely let it be known and each go their separate ways.
So yeah, both may work...one has significantly higher odds. (y'kno...guys with their logical brain and all...)
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 7/27/2008 9:10:49 PM | Dating strategies?. Well when my knackers dropped and I became interested in girls I had a dating coach, my father.He used to tell me when you started "rooting a sheila" as we say in Australia, not to do things like:
1/ Make her the centre of your world.
2/Don't talk to her on the phone for long periods
3/Don't ring her every day
4/Don't stop doing things you did before you met her.
5/ If she wanted to do something with you, say no every now and then.
I never understood at the time, but little things like above used to for some reason keep a girl interested.When I was about 19, I met the woman of my dreams and fell in love with her.She used to ring our house every night without fail, sometimes my dad used to answer the phone and tell her i was not home even if i was.Well the next time i saw her it was like the Spanish Inquisition as to my whereabouts on a certain night. One night she rang our house and my Dad said that some girl rang up and I got in my car and left. Well, what crap that caused.I met this girl about a month before the football season started.She used to ring me on Saturday mornings and we would work out what to do on the weekend.First game of the football for the season i told my dad to tell her the truth so she could meet me at the football. Dad told her I had gone to the football and he didn't know where. Well she drove around town trying to find me all Saturday afternoon. Well that night didn't i get a blast when i caught up with her. I knew dad had not told her where i was.I had to say dad is getting old and forgets.I used to get angry with my Dad for doing this but he used to reply "son you will work it out one day".Years later my Dad used to joke to my wife about all this (yes I married her). My wife used to say that it used to drive her nuts if she wasn't sure where i was and what i was doing. My wife used to say that of all the guys she dated before me i was the only one that didn't grovel to her. This is all probably dealt with in dating manuals somewhere, but i couldn't be bothered looking. Finally,some of my mates used to grovel to their prospective girlfriends and they never used to get that far(usually). In essence my dad coached me to not grovel to women when you first start dating them. Is this good or bad?. I know i am going to get shot down on here for this rather lenghty story. Oh and my dad used to tell me what to say where i was after he had lied to her as well. | |
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 7/28/2008 6:25:02 AM |
eazk, you are so right.
I checked it out. Most of it was pretty intuitive, but reading it and thinking about it is an interesting exercise. Sometimes you reflect back on situations in the past and think how you might have handled them better or differently. What I got from it was:
1) Be confident, not arrogant or wussy
2) Be yourself, more important don't be someone you are not.
3) Lighten up. Laugh. Dating should be enjoyable for both parties.
4) Have a life of your own. Your own friends, interests, and activities.
This is not enough.
Believing in yourself is not enough.
Being yourself is not enough.
Laughing and making others laugh is not enough.
Having your own interests, friends and activities is not enough.
It's good - in theory - it just doesn't work. Not saying that the D'Angelo stuff will work any better. Not saying that it isn't better to be happy and content with yourself... to be a positive and upbeat person... Just saying it is not enough to attract women.
Or maybe not any women. Maybe there are a small number that will be attracted and I've just been as unlucky as sh!t not to run into any yet! | |
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| Does anyone use the art of seduction or mystery method on dates?
Posted: 7/28/2008 6:51:13 AM | The words I have to say about this subject wouldn't fit on this page! uggggggg
Why can't people just be themselves and be direct about what they need and what they expect? What bothers me is when someone is gaming you or being cohersive and you call them on it and then they throw it back on you like you made them act that way. Please!!!!!!!!!! We are humans cause we have a large brain we can control our behavior and Asking directly for what you need is always the best policy!!!!!!
Sorry thanks for letting me vent.  | |
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