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| | Will The Democratic Party Heal Itself in Time?Page 4 of 26 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26) |
Honestly. Get this through your head. A vote for Obama is not a vote for change. It's just another vote for the status quo because that is exactly what Obama is I agree.... and no matter who gets the job nothing will change.. we keep nominating and electing the same status quo.. I'm starting to think that being an ex-President is more of a priority and financially beneficial.. the gift that keeps on giving. Book deals.. speaking engagements, secret service...etc..etc.. not to mention publicity.. every time an ex-President opens his mouth to speak we hang onto their every word and opinion.. more so than when he was in office. | |
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| Will The Democratic Party Heal Itself in Time? Posted: 6/11/2008 8:24:21 PM |
He doesn't have old-school conservatives. Let's be clear: it's even less likely that McCain will solidify his base than it is that Obama will do the same on the Democratic side.
What base does Obama have? Other than african americans and ultra left liberals? Both small segments of the population.
PhillyFellow | |
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| Will The Democratic Party Heal Itself in Time? Posted: 6/11/2008 8:27:36 PM |
Hillary quit, and a huge chunk of her pledged delegates have crossed over to Obama. She couldn't mount a convention fight if her life depended on it. There's not going to be a second act to all this. It's over in every sense of the word.
No, *pledged* delegates can not be released until the actual convention and an actual vote is taken. The superdelegates can change their preference either way between now and the convention. A large portion of Hillary's supporters are more conservative democrats. These are precisely those who are more likely to cross party lines and vote republican.
PhillyFellow | |
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| Will The Democratic Party Heal Itself in Time? Posted: 6/11/2008 8:30:45 PM |
A pro-choice, progressive, anti-war Hillary supporter who is willing to vote for pro-life, pro-war, socially conservative, anti-feminist John McCain, is a freak. I'm saying that from an objective standpoint, not a partisan one. A voter (having previously bought into all of Hillary's platform). who is now contemplating voting for McCain, is completely illogical. It's a spiteful, freakish exercise of the voting right.
Now who is living in denial? Do you really think that huge demographic of voters who voted overwhelmingly for Hillary in West Virginia and Kentucky is going to prefer Obama to McCain? I don't think so.
PhillyFellow | |
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| Will The Democratic Party Heal Itself in Time? Posted: 6/11/2008 8:46:24 PM |
"Well, look," Obama said, "the, the, I mean - first of all I am not vetting my VP search committee for their mortgages, -- "
After BLASTING Clinton over CountryWide he is now having to eat his words. This is very bad.
Change?
The Obama Campaign Criticized Sen. Clinton For Accepting Contributions From Representatives Of Countrywide. "Obama aides also said Clinton is in no position to stiffen oversight after taking contributions from mortgage industry lobbyists, including funds from representatives of Countrywide, which has been at the center of the mortgage meltdown. The Washington Post, 3/25/08
James Johnson drew over $1 million a year and a bonus around $2 million a year, He received a $20+ million golden Parachute after Fannie Mae lost over $200 million.....
This is not Change.
How many excuses will people be willing to make for Obama?
He is Losing the Blue Dog Dem's...... Two in Florida
It's Not looking good for that state.... | |
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| Will The Democratic Party Heal Itself in Time? Posted: 6/11/2008 8:55:40 PM |
What base does Obama have? Other than african americans and ultra left liberals? I'm not Afro-American or ultra-left. I am a gun owning country boy from Oregon who aquired a bit of an education. He has my vote, even though I do not agree with him 100%. The Reps are running us into the ground.
Obama has millions of young and educated people on his side. These people never knew what real racism was and are hungry for change they just don't see coming from "another" old, grey-haired. white guy. If you don't believe this, I'd like to hear your explanation for how he toppled Hillary Clinton and how he is gaining momentum in the polls. | |
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| Will The Democratic Party Heal Itself in Time? Posted: 6/12/2008 3:54:59 AM | | loveoregon...So millions of young and educated people are on Obamas side? So maybe people who are old and uneducated want an old white haired ex POW for President? Am I seeing a little elder discrimination in your post? | |
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| Will The Democratic Party Heal Itself in Time? Posted: 6/12/2008 5:16:25 AM |
If you don't believe this, I'd like to hear your explanation for how he toppled Hillary Clinton and how he is gaining momentum in the polls.
We had a long discussion on this on the "Why is Hillary losing" thread. My opinion is that the biggest reason is that two states Obama lost big in were cancelled out. This put Hillary at a significant disadvantage for pledged delegates and popular vote. This then also put her at a big disadvantage as far as attracting financing and superdelegates to her side.
PhillyFellow | |
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| Will The Democratic Party Heal Itself in Time? Posted: 6/12/2008 5:19:23 AM |
I am a gun owning country boy from Oregon who aquired a bit of an education. He has my vote, even though I do not agree with him 100%. The Reps are running us into the ground.
You must have heard though in post Oregon primary analysis that Oregon has been traditionally a liberal state. So you are still in that small demographic that flocks to Obama.
PhillyFellow | |
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| Will The Democratic Party Heal Itself in Time? Posted: 6/12/2008 12:00:36 PM | My opinion is that the biggest reason is that two states Obama lost big in were cancelled out. That's a nice opinion, but the reality is that there were rules made by the DNC, and Obama lived by them. His name was not even on the Michigan ballot nor did he campaign in these states. People will find whatever rationale needed to fit their agendas. In this respect, we are all the same. It's like the Eagles losing in the playoffs and blaming the refs for not changing the league rules during the fourth quarter because they are behind.
So you are still in that small demographic that flocks to Obama. That would make McCain's demo even smaller. Good luck dealing with it. | |
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| Will The Democratic Party Heal Itself in Time? Posted: 6/12/2008 1:45:25 PM |
No, *pledged* delegates can not be released until the actual convention and an actual vote is taken.
That's not how is works. When a candidate releases her delegates after losing a primary race, that candidate is signalling that she is not intending to mount a convention fight. The "pledge" no longer means anything because Hillary acknowledges that Obama is the nominee. Certainly, the delegates can choose to represent her against her stated wishes. However, Hillary's pledged delegates (not just the superdelegates) have largely taken her cue and moved over to Obama. The point is that the nomination fight is over.
Obama has positions upon which to build and sustain a base---
1. Pro-choice 2. Against the Iraq War 3. Wants to review and reform NAFTA 4. Advocates windfall profits tax against oil companies 5. Moderate health-care reform (not socialistic, universal coverage a la Hillary) 6. Tax cuts for Americans making under $250,000 Those are all popular positions among Americans, and that's why Obama is leading in all the polls. McCain does not advocate a single issue right now which is favored by the majority of Americans, except for cutting earmarks/pork barrel projects in legislative bills.
Obama is likely to maintain a substantial base more effectively than McCain is. | |
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| Will The Democratic Party Heal Itself in Time? Posted: 6/13/2008 2:30:40 PM | Most of the former Hillary supporters are already moving over to support Obama:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080612/pl_afp/usvotewomen
Rule No. 1 in politics: People have short memories. Very few voters are going to factor Hillary's loss into their decisions come November. | |
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| Will The Democratic Party Heal Itself in Time? Posted: 6/15/2008 6:01:14 PM | | I don't know if the Democratic Party will heal itself in time they haven't accomplished anything in the past few years so voters will take that into consideration in November. | |
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| Will The Democratic Party Heal Itself in Time? Posted: 6/15/2008 6:11:02 PM | | Wow! they polled a whole thousand people and came to this conclusion. Hillary received 18 million votes or so, 1000 peoples peoples opinions can't possibly reflect what the other 17,999,000 will do on election day. This is just another blatant attempt by a media source to manipulate the process in favor of Obama... | |
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| Will The Democratic Party Heal Itself in Time? Posted: 6/15/2008 6:49:10 PM | | It's all about speculation by the media.. but yes I do think the media tries to sway voters a certain way and it's usually towards a Democrat rather than Republican. Remember the 2000 race.. media had Gore winning the Presidential race before it was over.. speculation and wishful thinking by the slanted media networks. The look on their faces when Gore didn't win pretty much gave away their political persuasion. | |
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| Will The Democratic Party Heal Itself in Time? Posted: 6/15/2008 10:44:31 PM | You folks who imagine "tha media" as a single beast with a single intention can't be readers. If you expect the facts to be delivered up to you, without any effort on your part, then is it any wonder if you feel ill-informed? Your glib cynicism smacks of a garden variety vanity: "lookit me! I don't believe nuthin' you say! lookit me!"
Well, I say, good for you!
I'll give the rest of you a couple of smart, well-informed, well-connected, well-spoken straight shooters, two columnists who are quite explicitly not of the Beltway crowd.
Frank Rich was the theater critic for the New York Times before they turned him loose on politics. His strengths include a capacious memory and skill for plucking the real events out of the wishful spin. Plus, he's such a fine writer, a flame of clarity, he's a pleasure to read even when he exasperates me, which isn't often.
Rich's current column is about the persistent narrative of the "deeply divided and rancorous Democrats," and what rubbish it is. He details how the broadcast media focus on one or two poll points and ignore the complete array of results that present quite a different picture. He explains why it is absurd to expect Clinton voters to support McCain. Here: nytimes.com/2008/06/15/opinion/15rich.html
You might want to argue with Rich. The thing is, you can take him on. He puts his evidence and reasoning on the table for you to examine. Decide for yourself if he's thinking straight.
The same goes for Joe Galloway at McClatchy Newspapers. Galloway is . . . here's the bio bit from the web site:
General H. Norman Schwarzkopf has called Joseph L. Galloway, a military columnist for McClatchy Newspapers, "The finest combat correspondent of our generation — a soldier's reporter and a soldier's friend."
Galloway is the co-author, with Lt. Gen. Hal Moore, of "We Were Soldiers Once ... and Young," a story of the first large-scale ground battle of the Vietnam War. The book was made into a movie of the same name. Galloway was portrayed in the movie by actor Barry Pepper. Galloway is the stern voice of treating the troops right. He is the shit: mcclatchydc.com/galloway/story/40916.html
Like Rich, Galloway tells you why he thinks what he thinks. He's not so literary in his style as Rich; he writes in bursts, the way I imagine the old radio correspondents used to work.
Anyone can learn from these two gentlemen. At the very least, you'll learn from reading them that "tha media" is . . . just silly.
Cheers!
Vulf  | |
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| Will The Democratic Party Heal Itself in Time? Posted: 6/16/2008 12:18:58 AM |
Most of the former Hillary supporters are already moving over to support Obama
Well, not so fast. I'm not sure it's "most" at all. There are a significant number of Clinton supporters who are not moving in Obama's direction. And there are more who are starting little clubs of protest against Barack Obama. Obviously this is not a good sign for the Democratic party. At present I would say it's a grass roots type of thing but who knows what will happen if things should snowball?
"I think both of us would support Senator McCain. ... And Cynthia and I and two other members of our group are going to definitely support Senator McCain in the upcoming election because we feel he's the best candidate. And we need a strong leader to govern in the coming years." -- Marilu Sochor
Fox News' "Fox & Friends" June 9, 2008
FOX NEWS' BRIAN KILMEADE: "Hillary Clinton is urging her supporters to unify and get behind Barack Obama this November. So why are some of them telling her no way and pledging to vote for John McCain? Let's ask Cynthia Ruccia and Marilu Sochor, co-founders of Women for Fair Politics. First off you Cynthia, you heard Hillary Clinton ask you to support her rival, Senator Barack Obama. Why won't you?"
CYNTHIA RUCCIA: "We love Hillary Clinton. We are so proud of the job that she has done. We feel very upset with our party. We feel that they have absolutely betrayed us. The amount of sexism that came out during the course of this campaign was completely unacceptable, and we feel that we want to make a statement we're going to support John McCain. Our organization, we have had in one week just under 600,000 people visit our web site -- 80% of them feel the way that we do."
KILMEADE: "Marilu, I understand that Howard Dean has contacted your organization and said basically what do you want? What did you tell him?"
MARILU SOCHOR: "Well he's contacted Cynthia and myself twice over the last week and basically, he wanted to know what we felt and how we could get on board the Obama train. And we told him that we didn't feel that it was an option. That we felt that the DNC did not stand or defend Senator Clinton during the whole primary campaign and that we did not feel that we could, for more than one reason, throw our support toward Senator Obama, no matter what Senator Clinton suggested that we do."
KILMEADE: "Cynthia, where did you hear the sexism? Tell us what really ticked you off."
RUCCIA: "It was a lot of big things, you heard them all before. It was a lot of little things. It was a day to day to day thing. Even last week when it was very apparent that Barack Obama was going to be the presumed nominee and Hillary had lost and they consider her the person who lost, Governor Richardson went on the air and started bashing her. It was just completely unacceptable. I couldn't imagine --"
KILMEADE: "You don't think he would have bashed her if she was a man?"
RUCCIA: "No. Because I think in the traditions of our Democratic party when someone has been declared the winner and someone has been declared the loser that the winner doesn't bash the loser. It's just unacceptable."
KILMEADE: "What have you done in terms of contacting the McCain camp? Would you vote for John McCain or sit it out?"
SOCHOR: "No. I think both of us would support Senator McCain. But, our group, which started with five members all have different opinions on this matter. That's why Women for Fair Politics, that's what it's all about. We have some people who are going to write in Hillary's name. We have some people who are going to sit it out. And Cynthia and I and two other members of our group are going to definitely support Senator McCain in the upcoming election because we feel he's the best candidate. And we need a strong leader to govern in the coming years."
KILMEADE: "The fact that he reached out to you right away on Tuesday night I'm sure didn't hurt either."
SOCHOR: "No."
KILMEADE: "All right. Cynthia Ruccia and Marilu Sochor thanks for joining us this morning."
And then there's also this little jewel which has apparently formed rather recently:
Ex Hillary Clinton Supporters for John McCain http://www.hcsfjm.com/index.html
Looks like the Clinton supporters still have hard feelings, hmm? | |
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| Will The Democratic Party Heal Itself in Time? Posted: 6/16/2008 12:46:39 AM | It's all over but the shouting.
Undoubtedly, there will be a couple of groups of ex-Hillary supporters which will pop up here and there. You'll have a group of 5 Hillary supporters in one state.......maybe a group of 4 in another state. They'll air out some of their disappointments over the next few weeks.
If you look at one of those tiny groups of five come November: three of them will vote for Obama, 1 will vote for Bob Barr, and 1 will stay home. | |
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| Will The Democratic Party Heal Itself in Time? Posted: 6/16/2008 1:21:21 AM | Well, that's an interesting theory, Spitfire, because in my town alone, I'm part of a circle of friends who all supported Hillary, who are men and women, who are not pleased with the Democratic nominee, Barack Obama. These same people are adamant about supporting John McCain and that attitude isn't going to be changing come November. If anything, the animosity only continues to grow as the liberal media fan the flames.
I think you're mistaken. I believe it's going to be a more significant number than anyone realizes who defect to McCain and actually impact the election. Ever hear of the old saying, "A woman has a memory like an elephant?" | |
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| Will The Democratic Party Heal Itself in Time? Posted: 6/16/2008 4:18:27 AM |
Well, not so fast. I'm not sure it's "most" at all. There are a significant number of Clinton supporters who are not moving in Obama's direction. And there are more who are starting little clubs of protest against Barack Obama. Obviously this is not a good sign for the Democratic party. At present I would say it's a grass roots type of thing but who knows what will happen if things should snowball?
Hillary supporters I think should have been allowed to "move on" much sooner but Hillary did not want to stop campaigning so it was a false hope and I believe this was not helpful to her supporters, their alligence was so strong..she has moved on but many of her supporters have not. This happens when you have two really good candidates. | |
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| Will The Democratic Party Heal Itself in Time? Posted: 6/16/2008 7:21:45 AM | | I don't consider myself a "McCain" person or an "Obama" person .. I tend to look for uniqueness and I think that Obama has that. I like to learn as much as I can about the candidates, not by sound bites, campaign speeches or partisan web sites. Of course knowing what the majority in Congress while be at that time is also important to me. | |
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| Will The Democratic Party Heal Itself in Time? Posted: 6/16/2008 7:39:12 AM | | clearly other posters have more intel about all of american history then even americans do,how truly interesting.The democratic party has had the majority of the senate and look what has happened.We have to pay 4.00 a gallon for gas and some r even so naive as to try to blame President Bush when in fact it was the senate. I am curious as to why some of those on here who seem to be so passionate about politics not in the canadian parlimant where ur ideas could go alot further?I mean u could even try to change some of ur own countries direction as that is where u live.I mean u could even open lines of communication between ur country and others for the future evolving of canada in all aspects of the poltical ring.As for the dems party healing itself well it can't seem to raise the money for the denver convention as they have already cancelled 24 events for the delegates and say they choose to do one event for katrina.Is this for donations well they won't say.What we do know is that they r 15 million short for the dnc(democratic national convention) | |
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| Will The Democratic Party Heal Itself in Time? Posted: 6/16/2008 7:55:26 AM |
These same people are adamant about supporting John McCain.
We have yet to see a Hillary supporter give a cogent, dispassionate justification for crossing over from supporting Hillary to supporting McCain based on the issues. Any poster here is welcome on the "Will the Republican Party Heal Itself" thread if he or she is serious about discussing McCain's chances. Mere anger at the Democratic nominee won't hold up for 4+ months until the election. Most ex-Hillary supporters are going to end up voting Democrat. Defection to a third party candidate has happened historically; but defection to the candidate of the other major party (a candidate who has diametrically opposing views) is unheard of.
Raw anger won't be enough to cause such a defection over 4 months from now. | |
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