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 Author Thread: Obama supporters and Bush..
 one eyed jacks

Joined: 4/5/2009
Msg: 76
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Obama supporters and Bush..
Posted: 9/10/2009 6:47:01 AM

Often in bringing up Bush in defense of Obama, many seem to even specify that Bush did it while in office, so why Now are people just finally getting around to complaining about it just because Obama is doing it too.


I am curious, what is Obama doing that Bush did also?


When I see the "Bush did it argument" I and others are reminded of all the broken promises so far this year. When current political problems are reflected back to Bush I and others are reminded that nothing has changed in DC and that Obama is no different than all other insincere DC politicians. [/quote

Which broken promises are you referring to? Can you tell me specifically which ones?

According to Politifac he has done pretty good considering he has been in office only 8 months.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/subjects/politifacts-top-promises/

If you want to look at all his promises look at this link. It's 26 pages long.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/browse/


Of course yes, there are some broken promises. Here is the link. I counted 7 broken and it is listed on just one page.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/rulings/promise-broken/

And promises kept so far. I counted 41.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/rulings/promise-kept/?page=3


Of course at that site there are links to promises in the works, some stalled and some compromised on. But I would say that he has done a very good job in keeping his promises.
 killene

Joined: 3/28/2009
Msg: 77
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Obama supporters and Bush..
Posted: 9/10/2009 9:11:39 AM
I am curious, what is Obama doing that Bush did also?


Well I do know that when we discuss various issues and tactics of the Obama administration we are directed to look at Bush and how Bush did it too.

Like the Bush spending that Obama was going to curtail....Isn't our deficit now about twice or more than that of Bush. Guess Obama likes spending money more than Bush.

How about all the Bush Pork laden bills that Obama complained about....The stimulus bill was practically oinking its way to Obama's pen .

Then there is Bush's secrecy of his own administration that Obama condemned....Yea we know a lot from Obama about Bush's administration yet the media is having problems getting current presidential administrative information when asked for(not talking just Fox, actually it was not Fox that brought the issue forward).

How often did Obama complain about Bush's Czars, Czar selection method, Czar powers and Czars cost????...Looks like Obama has twice as many or more Czars that are just as powerful or more powerful, and just as costly or more costly , with no approval needed from Congress for their budgets, power and or selection.

The above is only a few of the Obama issues and tactics that when discussed the conversation is steered towards Bush by the Obama supporters?(partial quote from the opening question of this thread).

Like I said lets start leaving Bush out of the Equation \ and put the focus on what Obama is or is not doing. It should not be that since Bush did it, Obama can do it and do it more.

Obama should be doing it because it is good for and will benefit America.

Remember it was Obama who assured and guaranteed the American people that he was going to change the out of control political game playing in DC especially Bush's administration.

Remember it was Obama who assured and guaranteed the American people that he had the experience and ability to fix the Bush mess.

It would be nice to see Obama do just that, instead of the constant reference back to Bush.
 Dasein2

Joined: 7/31/2009
Msg: 78
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Obama supporters and Bush..
Posted: 9/10/2009 10:30:14 AM
Simple answer to OP . . . because you have to know where you've been to know where you're going.
 killene

Joined: 3/28/2009
Msg: 79
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Obama supporters and Bush..
Posted: 9/10/2009 10:37:43 AM
accidental double post I am sorry.
 one eyed jacks

Joined: 4/5/2009
Msg: 80
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Obama supporters and Bush..
Posted: 9/10/2009 10:41:11 AM

Like the Bush spending that Obama was going to curtail....Isn't our deficit now about twice or more than that of Bush. Guess Obama likes spending money more than Bush.

Yes the deficit has gone up dramatically. But as I am sure you are aware we are in a worldwide recession right now (That started well before Obama came into office) and the trick is to see how much you can lessen the effects. Now is not the time to stop spending. That would make a bad situation much much worse.
Actually I think the spending has done what it was supposed to. I believe the recession is over and judging by the way the stock market is reacting now, jobs will return within a few months.


How about all the Bush Pork laden bills that Obama complained about....The stimulus bill was practically oinking its way to Obama's pen .


Thats usually what stimulus bills are. Politicians want the spending done in there districts. Then its stimulus spending. When it happens in someone elses district, then it's pork and they are all against it.


Then there is Bush's secrecy of his own administration that Obama condemned....Yea we know a lot from Obama about Bush's administration yet the media is having problems getting current presidential administrative information when asked for(not talking just Fox, actually it was not Fox that brought the issue forward).


I am not sure what secresy you are talking about here but again according to Politifact this is considered in the works.


In a presidential memo issued May 27, 2009, Obama wrote he wanted "unprecedented level of openness" in his administration. A declassification center could speed the release of information to the public, he said.




How often did Obama complain about Bush's Czars, Czar selection method, Czar powers and Czars cost????...Looks like Obama has twice as many or more Czars that are just as powerful or more powerful, and just as costly or more costly , with no approval needed from Congress for their budgets, power and or selection.


I am not sure who invented the term czar for political appointees which have been around since like forever and while I know you don't like to hear the comparison but the best I could figure is Bush had more than Obama.

http://www.sodahead.com/question/607881/did-george-bush-have-czars/

Now the question has to be, what is an appropriate number of advisers to have? You can't expect one person (the President) to have all the answers and be an expert in all matters. They need advisers.


Remember it was Obama who assured and guaranteed the American people that he was going to change the out of control political game playing in DC especially Bush's administration.


I think he really meant that. I think he really thought he could work with Republicans. I think he honestly thought they were honorable people who wanted to do what was best for the country. What he got was a party whose sole purpose of ebing in Washington is throw up as many roadblocks to progress that they can.

If Obama has made one serious error it's that. Thinking he could work with Republicans. I hope he now just throws them aside and bulldozes his way through.
 laxref41

Joined: 7/20/2008
Msg: 81
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Obama supporters and Bush..
Posted: 9/10/2009 10:49:08 AM
killene...

in case you forgot... the U.S. Government fiscal year is October 1 to September 31... so if the current budget deficit is two to three times greater than previous years... guess who made the current budget resulting in the subsequent deficit?

Answer... Not Obama...
 laxref41

Joined: 7/20/2008
Msg: 82
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Obama supporters and Bush..
Posted: 9/10/2009 10:53:18 AM
perhaps insolent1 would care to enlighten us on the legal reason we went into iraq...


if the answer is... we don't have the legal reason yet... then please let me know how long we have to wait for it...
 jack-d-ripper

Joined: 2/25/2008
Msg: 83
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Obama supporters and Bush..
Posted: 9/10/2009 11:01:24 AM

the U.S. Government fiscal year is October 1 to September 31... so if the current budget deficit is two to three times greater than previous years... guess who made the current budget resulting in the subsequent deficit?




BUTT some things don't count because they were not real.... Magic..like a couple of WARS...

I tried to listen to Rush yesterday...

He was RANTING about the Tarp to Auto makers .... a payoff to UNIONS>>>>

He even gave the date payments ...... October............ Dam Bush Union lover....
 laxref41

Joined: 7/20/2008
Msg: 84
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Obama supporters and Bush..
Posted: 9/10/2009 11:04:54 AM
greenway...

we bash Bush because he is the most recent example of the failed conservative right movement... and likely to surpass Nixon, Carter and Andrew Jackson as the worst president of all time...
 Ready4SomethingFun

Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 85
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Obama supporters and Bush..
Posted: 9/10/2009 8:43:17 PM

we bash Bush because he is the most recent example of the failed conservative right movement... and likely to surpass Nixon, Carter and Andrew Jackson as the worst president of all time...



Well as you guys always say, give Obama time, he's only been president for 8 months.

But I think he is off to a pretty good start in the worst president of all time sweepstakes. Maybe he is trying to be the last president of this country.
 laxref41

Joined: 7/20/2008
Msg: 86
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Obama supporters and Bush..
Posted: 9/11/2009 5:53:17 AM
"But I think he is off to a pretty good start in the worst president of all time sweepstakes. Maybe he is trying to be the last president of this country."

Perhaps you've pre-judged him... or is that the folks you solely listen to and put all your faith in have pre-judged him?

What has he accomplished in the first 8 months that would possibly make him a candidate for the worst president of all time?
 killene

Joined: 3/28/2009
Msg: 87
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Obama supporters and Bush..
Posted: 9/11/2009 6:25:40 AM

Well as you guys always say, give Obama time, he's only been president for 8 months. But I think he is off to a pretty good start in the worst president of all time sweepstakes. Maybe he is trying to be the last president of this country.


Well apparently Obama's Wednesday night attempt at a bipartisan speech filled with republican taunts, barbs and outright lies does not reflect well of his leadership skills.

The outburst in the hall was probably reminiscence of Obama's first year as senator, when a similar incident happened during Bush's 2005 SOTU speech. I truly wonder if any elected Democrats apologized for their role in that fiasco, much less Obama. For anyone sitting in that audience just tolerating the boos and calls of liar were just as guilty as the ones actually shouting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0xO-ZQSoP8 (short version)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBxmEGG71PM (longer version)

So here we are again at if it happened with Bush why not Obama. Sorry, but I don't feel it even fits in this event. It does however say that some might want to clean their own house before acting the innocent victim.
 one eyed jacks

Joined: 4/5/2009
Msg: 88
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Posted: 9/11/2009 6:30:53 AM

Well apparently Obama's Wednesday night attempt at a bipartisan speech filled with republican taunts, barbs and outright lies does not reflect well of his leadership skills.


What lies? What did he say that was a lie? You throw that around a lot but you never back it up. What was the lie? I think if you are going to call someone a liar you should have proof.
 killene

Joined: 3/28/2009
Msg: 89
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Posted: 9/11/2009 7:13:13 AM

What lies? What did he say that was a lie? You throw that around a lot but you never back it up. What was the lie? I think if you are going to call someone a liar you should have proof.


Obama's unconstitutional lie/statement about the illegal immigrants. Here is Obama's statement about illegal immigrants.
There are also those who claim that our reform effort will insure illegal immigrants. This, too, is false - the reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally. And one more misunderstanding I want to clear up - under our plan, no federal dollars will be used to fund abortions, and federal conscience laws will remain in place.http://www.marketwatch.com/story/text-of-president-obamas-health-care-speech-2009-09-09?pagenumber=2


It seems that it is unconstitutional to deny social services given to others freely, to illegal immigrants. California found that out in 1994 after they voted successfully to get the illegal immigrants off their social services rolls. California's prop 187 barred people who were in their state illegally from using their social services, health care, and public education. It was eventually nixed in appeals court as unconstitutional . If it was unconstitutional in California then it sure as the heck would be unconstitutional on the Federal Level.

Obama is a constitutional lawyer and some say tenured professor in constitutional law. Did Obama forget this landmark incident in California. Do we chalk it up as another misspeak to Obama? Come on guys with the huge staff of speech writers and czars/advisors I hope we not going to call this another misspeak . OOPS. Yea OOPs look at all the money we are paying for Obama's advisors to only to have him make this type of unconstitutional statement.


California Proposition 187 (also known as the Save Our State initiative) was a 1994 ballot initiative designed to prohibit illegal immigrants from using social services, health care, and public education in the U.S. State of California. It was initially passed by the voters but later found unconstitutional by a federal court, with appeals against the judgment being halted by Governor Gray Davis ...... Multiple cases were consolidated and brought before Judge Mariana Pfaelzer, who in November 1997 found the law to be unconstitutional.[3] Governor Wilson appealed the ruling, which brought the case to the federal Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. In 1999, newly elected Democratic Governor Gray Davis had the case brought before mediation,[7] and then dropped the appeals process before the courts, effectively killing the law.[8] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_187_(1994)


Yea Bush did a lot of boners, but that does not excuse Obama from his constant boners.
 one eyed jacks

Joined: 4/5/2009
Msg: 90
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Posted: 9/11/2009 7:41:45 AM
^^^^^^^^^

Thats it? Is that a lie or a difference of opinion? It's not same you know as say, saying a third rate country has weapons of mass destruction and was responsible for the 9-11 hijackers. The kind of lie that costs thousands and thousands lives.


If it was unconstitutional in California then it sure as the heck would be unconstitutional on the Federal Level.


You don't know that until it gets to the Supreme Court and quite frankly I really doubt this particular court would uphold that.
 Ready4SomethingFun

Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 91
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Obama supporters and Bush..
Posted: 9/11/2009 8:54:41 AM

Perhaps you've pre-judged him... or is that the folks you solely listen to and put all your faith in have pre-judged him?


I gave the guy the guy a fair chance and it took him all of two weeks to disappoint me. Actually on his first day with his signing of the closing of Gitmo he disappointed me, but I sort of expected that so I let it go. But then, all the old Clinton admin appointees, tax cheats in finace positions, the pork filled stimulus package, on and on, and I realized quickly this guy who touted change was same old B.S.


It's not same you know as say, saying a third rate country has weapons of mass destruction and was responsible for the 9-11 hijackers. The kind of lie that costs thousands and thousands lives.


And here we are, nine months into Obama's Fantasy Land, and we are still there aren't we? So do you think Obama has learned something the general public doesn't know, or does he just like spending money and seeing Americans die as much as Bush supposedly did?
 killene

Joined: 3/28/2009
Msg: 92
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Obama supporters and Bush..
Posted: 9/12/2009 2:29:26 PM
To me it just seems like a cop out when people keep referring back to Bush to defend Obama..

It's an even bigger cop out when the Obama defense is that "Well Bush did too, so what!!"

Now from my understanding Obama was the man of change not the new Bush. JMHO
 killene

Joined: 3/28/2009
Msg: 93
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Posted: 9/12/2009 2:30:06 PM

gave the guy the guy a fair chance and it took him all of two weeks to disappoint me. Actually on his first day with his signing of the closing of Gitmo he disappointed me, but I sort of expected that so I let it go. But then, all the old Clinton admin appointees, tax cheats in finace positions, the pork filled stimulus package, on and on, and I realized quickly this guy who touted change was same old B.S.



I too gave Obama a chance. Dang I was so glad to get rid of Bush!!!! After what Bush had been and was doing, I think I was thinking Goofy would be better as president. Now oops I wondering if maybe we might have been off with Goofy or ??? as president.

Obama is just the same ole BS. Almost every major issue Obama seemed to say he had the ability and experience to fix he has only made worse. The deficit is bigger and getting bigger, seems to be even more acceptance of PORK, war in Afghanistan has escalated with more deaths , unemployment got bigger, foreclosures got worse, more Czars, and the list goes on.

What is really bad is that Obama just keeps piling it on, instead of slowing down and fixing what he is making even worse.
 geeleebee

Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 94
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Obama supporters and Bush..
Posted: 9/12/2009 2:43:25 PM
The reason Bush is brought up when some complain (or lie) about Obama, is because for eight long, sometimes frightening, years NO one stood up on the Right and said anything about Bush--no one expressed any doubt about his actions.

Where were those people, then, who are now clamoring against Obama?

When we voiced our concerns/complaints/outrage over Bush and his ilk, we were shut up and shut down. We were 'silly' for worrying about the Patriot Act. We were 'Un-American' for doubting that WMD existed.

The comparisons between Bush II and Obama won't stop anytime soon--there is still so much from the Bush years that has to be resolved/healed.

Those who simply said nothing during the Bush years have only themselves to blame when we compare this president with him.

TFB
 FooledU2x

Joined: 5/30/2009
Msg: 95
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Posted: 9/12/2009 3:16:21 PM
Only really dumb people expect there will be no comparison.
 notatowniegirl

Joined: 4/18/2006
Msg: 96
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Posted: 9/13/2009 2:16:10 PM
To point out the hypocrisy of those who make the complaints about Obama since there was no such outrage from them when Bush did it, and illustrate how many of the problems today were either started or worsened long before Obama was even elected. It's natural to point out that they are being unfairly attributed to him in a desperate attempt to discredit him.
 imalwayssmiling

Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 97
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Posted: 9/13/2009 3:04:01 PM
insolent ? Ok,I'll bite,first off your question you ask forces all of of to use Bush comparison in every post given within this thread,its what you asked us,so now everyone opposed that uses Bushes name gets a " thats what I'm talking about" crap.Secondly why is it that every one that hates,dislikes or is against Bush automatically is framed as a liberal,or tree hugger,or right winger. Why actually is it that anyone that thinks Obama is doing a admiral job right now,is a liberal or tree hugger.Oddly enough many,infact vast amounts of learned people admire Obama and his long term plans,we even cheered as Gitmo and torture was ended,when civil rights were given back to our population,they are are not the impatient ones expecting everything to change in the 9 months he has been here.Infact many of us, upon seeing those angered because the rights were given back to our citizens , illegal eavesdropping stopped and black sites closed and torture banned got to see you scary people that supported and still support that,you scare me.

As for the extremists in your group,I truly wish I did not have to have people like you as my neighbor and wish I knew who you were before I allowed my nephew to sleep over at your sons house because I wouldn't want my family around you ideology or your kind and wish that your church upon realizing who you are wouldn't cherish you but actually counsel you to seek help.

Look at Bush/Cheney as a crime scene,they're the chalk outline on the ground,so until the rain even washes the chalk off the crime scene then you will hear from those of us with our eyes wide open ,over and over,hell ! I can still smell their cologne ! The blood hasn't even dried yet.

Look at Obama as a surgeon,the country as a multiple gunshot victim,Obama is still in surgery and will be in for a long operation,first he needs to stop the extensive bleeding ,once he stabilizes the patient it will be a slow recovery.Bringing something back from the brink of death takes awhile.
 killene

Joined: 3/28/2009
Msg: 98
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Obama supporters and Bush..
Posted: 9/13/2009 3:13:05 PM
This is only a small amount of the rallies held during the bush years. Could not find the ones from whre I used to lived, even though they were pretty much on a monthly basis.

Seems that some have switched sides, with even some who voted for Obama joining in with the tea parties, 9/12 demostrations, and town hall meetings.

I have a feeling that there were some that voted for Bush too that probably regretted their decision and joined in the protests too.

SAN FRANCISCO Huge statue to be jailed in anti-Bush rally
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/10/04/BAGEULHT991.DTL&feed=rss.bayareap

Thousands rally nationwide vs. Bush NLRB's anti-worker rulings August 19, 2006
http://www.ilwu.org/dispatcher/2006/07/nlrbrallies.cfm

Downtown Rallies Condemn Bush Administration Hundreds Gather In Grant Park And Federal Plaza http://cbs2chicago.com/topstories/anti.war.rally.2.332682.html

Outrage: Public schools busing students to anti-Bush rally By Katharine DeBrecht CHRISTIAN EXAMINER- Opinion http://www.christianexaminer.com/Articles/Articles%20Dec05/Art_Dec05_oped1.html

Pictures of the rallies.

September 24, 2005 Anti-War Rally in Los Angeles
http://www.humboldt1.com/~mdd/lapeacerallysept2005.html

These photos were taken at the post-election anti-Bush rally in San Francisco on November 3, 2004.
http://www.zombietime.com/sf_rally_november_3_2004/


Great Signs at a Bush Rally http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=33373
 EarlzP

Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 99
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Obama supporters and Bush..
Posted: 9/15/2009 9:25:07 PM

Great Signs at a Bush Rally http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=33373


Bush should be spending the rest of his life quietly, tucked away safely with Bernie Madoff
 laxref41

Joined: 7/20/2008
Msg: 100
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Obama supporters and Bush..
Posted: 9/24/2009 7:43:50 PM
"It seems that it is unconstitutional to deny social services given to others freely, to illegal immigrants."

where in the health care plan does it say that the services are free?

the public option would basically be another health care insurance company except it would provide low service levels. it would be the payless / thrifty rent a car company competing with hertz, avis and national. It's still paid for by the employer and employee payroll deductions... which is why it absolutely does not cover illegal immigrants UNLESS the employer and the employee are criminals by falsely using another person's legal credentials. No law and no program can be made 100% fool proof when it comes to someone wanting to beat it by being a criminal... but it still requires the employer and employee to PAY for it. It is not free.
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