Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Religion  > Do you believe in Astrology?      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 dunrich
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 226
Do you believe in Astrology?Page 10 of 13    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13)
Merkin, lol, we are all entitled to our opinion.

There is proof that I believe the Bible, true, obviously there is proof for you that astrology is true, but I have never seen any yet.

Not one time did I bring up the Bible. Obviously, if someone does not believe the Bible, I will not waste my time, or respectfully, theirs, by quoting it.

However to base decisions in life by the position of the planets, is so wrong. Not Bibically, but wrong as in silly. Furthermore, it will not work if you know the future.

Lets say astrology has merit, or psychics for that matter. Your destiny will be changed, if you know what your future is. Lets say the position of the stars, says you will meet someone at a social event, Then you will actively seek out social events, and might miss out at an impromptude, spontaneous event because you were out searching at a social event.

What astrological system are you following? 13 signs as in some eastern ones or 12 like what is predominate in western astrology?

I know people who have separated, divorced, gotten involved with affairs, and even made their decision to marry based on astrology. A lot of these poor souls, are messed up seeking answers, and become easy victims for the many frauds out there claiming they have the astrological and or psychic ability to advise them. Even astrologers and some psychics know there are many frauds!

Just, like I admit quite freely, there are many frauds claiming gifts from Jesus who claim they know the answers to poor misguided people.

Too many people are dormant in their search in this life, waiting for things to come true, win the lottery or something. They think they can wait, not actively control their life by striving for what they want, sadly, too many wait for stars to magicly ( some think God) supply them with the wherewithal to get what they want.

This thread is a personal opinion about astrology, I have a close freind who follows it quite avidly, they too think I am a fool to believe the Bible, and I have yet to see any proof that astrology has assisted her.

Although, many times, I have had her call and say, "Richard, this is him, my soulmate! " . lol. Perhaps 5 times? Not sure, so forgive me if I am sceptical over the power stars exerted on me, 52 years ago. The future is an unkown quantity, I have yet to see someone be able to predict it based on stars.

Beware of anyone, claiming any power, to know the future!
 Walking in Memphis
Joined: 9/1/2005
Msg: 227
view profile
History
Do you believe in Astrology?
Posted: 11/13/2006 10:25:02 PM
Rarely do I find that Astrology has answers to the future. FranklyI like that it has not been written. I like the fact that Astrology can be a gateway to a different way of thinking.

Most Astrology that I have been exposed to is really about understanding what makes you as in yourself ... Tick ... Is that so bad?

Now granted like most idealogical religions Astrology is subject to dispute but is that not the point to any religion to be subjective? Can anyone truly say that without a shred of soubt that all the things in the bible actually happened? Can anyone say that of any religion? It doesn't mean that the teachings of any religion are wrong but the fact remains that you get what you put into any religion.

If it seeking a direction ofr the future ... then that is what you BELIEVE you need ... If it is the intervention of God on your behalf or someone you love ... Then that is what you BELIEVE ... No matter what we were given free will for better or worse ... So out of this we should maybe start thinking about the tolerance we all should have for others and quit preaching about the rights and wrongs of it all ... I am pretty sure someone once said not to throw rocks in a glass house ...

 themadfiddler
Joined: 10/16/2006
Msg: 228
Do you believe in Astrology?
Posted: 11/13/2006 10:57:20 PM
It's an interesting subject...and it's surprising how many people you'd think were "too educated" and should know better, take it seriously enough to keep astrologers on the payroll as consultants...total bosh? A complete waste of time? Well I don't know if I would go that far...but I wouldn't be devoting large sums of cash on it, any more than I would be donating them to any other form of religious belief.

AFAIK it literally has its origins in star-worship...and divinitory practice stretching back into the dim pasts of Sumeria and Egypt, and China. We are likely are as fascinated with these lights in the sky as we are with lightning, thunder and fire and no doubt assumed they had "big mana" in them in our primitive days...and who knows, maybe they do?

The wiki article has some interesting bits to add... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrology



By the time of Francis Bacon and the scientific revolution, newly emerging scientific disciplines acquired a method of systematic empirical induction validated by experimental observations, which led to the scientific revolution.[21] At this point, astrology and astronomy began to diverge; astronomy became one of the central sciences while astrology was increasingly viewed as an occult science or superstition by natural scientists. This separation accelerated through the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries.[22]

Within the contemporary scientific community, astrology is generally labeled as a pseudoscience,[9][23] and it has been criticized as being unscientific both by scientific bodies and by individual scientists.[24][25] In 1975, the American Humanist Association published one of the most widely known modern criticisms of astrology, characterizing those who continue to have faith in the subject as doing so "in spite of the fact that there is no verified scientific basis for their beliefs, and indeed that there is strong evidence to the contrary".[26] Astronomer Carl Sagan did not sign the statement, noting that, while he felt astrology lacked validity, he found the statement's tone authoritarian. He suggested that the lack of a causal mechanism for astrology was relevant but not in itself convincing.[27][28]

Although astrology has had no accepted scientific standing for some time, it has been the subject of much research among astrologers since the beginning of the twentieth century. In his landmark study of twentieth-century research into natal astrology, vocal astrology critic Geoffrey Dean noted and documented the burgeoning research activity, primarily within the astrological community.[29]


Claims about obstacles to research

Astrologers have argued that there are significant obstacles in carrying out scientific research into astrology today, including funding,[30][31][32] lack of background in science and statistics by astrologers,[30] and insufficient expertise in astrology by research scientists.[30][31][32] There are only a handful of journals dealing with scientific research into astrology (i.e. astrological journals directed towards scientific research or scientific journals publishing astrological research). Some astrologers have argued that few practitioners today pursue scientific testing of astrology because they feel that working with clients on a daily basis provides a personal validation for them.[32][33]

Another argument made by astrologers is that most studies of astrology do not reflect the nature of astrological practice and that existing experimental methods and research tools are not adequate for studying this complex discipline.[34][35] Some astrology proponents claim that the prevailing attitudes and motives of many opponents of astrology introduce conscious or unconscious bias in the formulation of hypotheses to be tested, the conduct of the tests, and the reporting of results.[30]


Mechanism

Many critics claim that a central problem to astrology is the lack of evidence for a scientifically defined mechanism by which celestial objects can supposedly influence terrestrial affairs.[36] Astrologers claim that a lack of an explanatory mechanism would not scientifically invalidate astrological findings.[30] Though physical mechanisms are still among the proposed theories of astrology,[37][38] few modern astrologers believe in a direct causal relationship between heavenly bodies and earthly events.[32] Some have posited acausal, purely correlative, relationships between astrological observations and events, such as the theory of synchronicity[39] proposed by Jung. Astrophysicist Victor Mansfield suggests that astrology should draw inspiration from quantum physics.[40] Others have posited a basis in divination.[41] Still others have argued that empirical correlations can stand on their own epistemologically, and do not need the support of any theory or mechanism.[30] To some observers, these non-mechanistic concepts raise serious questions about the feasibility of validating astrology through scientific testing, and some have gone so far as to reject the applicability of the scientific method to astrology almost entirely.[30][7] Some astrologers, on the other hand, believe that astrology is amenable to the scientific method, given sufficiently sophisticated analytical methods, and they cite pilot studies they claim support this view.[42] Consequently, a number of astrologers have called for or advocated continuing studies of astrology based on statistical validation.[43]


Research claims and counter-claims

As in many medieval illustrations, the compass here is an icon of religion as well as science, in reference to God as the architect of creationSeveral individuals, most notably French psychologist and statistician Michel Gauquelin, claimed to have found correlations between some planetary positions and certain human traits such as vocations. Gauquelin's most widely known claim is known as the Mars effect, which is said to demonstrate a correlation between the planet Mars occupying certain positions in the sky more often at the birth of eminent sports champions than at the birth of ordinary people. Since its original publication in 1955, the Mars effect has been the subject of studies claiming to refute it,[44][45] and studies claiming to support and/or expand the original claims,[46][47][48] but neither the claims nor the counterclaims have received mainstream scientific notice.

Besides the claims of the Mars effect, astrological researchers claim to have found statistical correlations for physical attributes,[49] accidents,[50][51] personal and mundane events,[52][53] social trends such as economics[54][55] and large geophysical patterns.[56] None of these claims, however, have been published in a mainstream scientific journal.

The scientific community, where it has commented, claims that astrology has repeatedly failed to demonstrate its effectiveness in numerous controlled studies.[10] Effect size studies in astrology conclude that the mean accuracy of astrological predictions is no greater than what is expected by chance, and astrology's perceived performance has disappeared on critical inspection.[57][58] When tested against personality tests, astrologers have shown a consistent lack of agreement with these tests. One such double-blind study in which astrologers attempted to match birth charts with results of a personality test, which was published in the reputable peer-reviewed scientific journal Nature, claimed to refute astrologers' assertions that they can solve clients' personal problems by reading individuals' natal charts. The study concluded that astrologers had no special ability to interpret personality from astrological readings.[59][60] Another study that used a personality test and a questionnaire contended that some astrologers failed to predict objective facts about people or agree with each other's interpretations.[61] When testing for cognitive, behavioral, physical and other variables, one study of astrological "time twins" claimed that human characteristics are not molded by the influence of the Sun, Moon and planets at the time of birth.[58][62] Skeptics of astrology also suggest that the perceived accuracy of astrological interpretations and descriptions of one's personality can be accounted for by the fact that people tend to exaggerate positive 'hits' and overlook whatever does not fit, especially when vague language is used.[58] They also claim that statistical research is often wrongly seen as evidence for astrology due to uncontrolled artifacts.[63]
 MasterBart
Joined: 6/20/2004
Msg: 229
view profile
History
Do you believe in Astrology?
Posted: 11/16/2006 7:52:49 PM
COP: All right, Son, where were you born?

CHEECH: Huh?

COP: I said, where were ya born?

CHEECH: Hey, are you one o' them astronomer dudes... yeah, I'm like a cancer with a bad moon rising.
 Trevor™
Joined: 9/13/2006
Msg: 230
Do you believe in Astrology?
Posted: 12/1/2006 11:25:29 AM
There was a test posted in the Alberta forums that asked a series of simple questions and gave you an answer for what Zodiac personaity matches you best.

http://forums.plentyoffish.com/5788832datingPostpage3.aspx

The test can be found at http://www.quizmeme.com/zodiacpersonality/takequiz.php

Out of the 60 unique responses to the test, I found 22 that reported that their "zodiac personality" matched up with their own sun sign. If it was up to chance, the results would be 5/60.
 BIKPEDLR
Joined: 2/20/2005
Msg: 231
Do you believe in Astrology?
Posted: 12/11/2006 1:57:34 PM
Look up the Seven Laws Of Moses ( pre-dates 10 Comandments ), and see what is said about these activities. I have to believe these powers are real because we are forbiden to engage in them. ( this only applies if you're a monothieist - Christian, Jew, Islamic )
 GoodSirReal
Joined: 10/24/2006
Msg: 232
Do you believe in Astrology?
Posted: 12/13/2006 4:26:48 PM
I'm a total fanatic about the "new" astrology, which is simply combining the 12 chinese years with the western monthly astrology. What you can divine by combining the two is amazing, and it's the perfect way to find a comapatable match. It's amazing to me how few people have caught on to it so far, especially when it comes to relationships.
 sci-fi guy
Joined: 12/14/2006
Msg: 233
Do you believe in Astrology?
Posted: 12/19/2006 4:36:59 PM
since pluto is no longer considered as being a full fledge planet but is now considered as being a dwarf planet shouldn't this show the inaccuracies of astrology
 themadfiddler
Joined: 10/16/2006
Msg: 234
Do you believe in Astrology?
Posted: 12/19/2006 8:49:53 PM

since pluto is no longer considered as being a full fledge planet but is now considered as being a dwarf planet shouldn't this show the inaccuracies of astrology


Astrology, to put a fine point on it, would best be described as an occult art and not much of a science...based mostly on intuition and observation over time and quite likely a whole lot of coincedence and folklore...if it had its roots in essentially star worship, you can assume the original form of astrology was connected to naked-eye viewing only.

If planets visible through telescopes have been "grafted" onto the system to add "scientific" validity, you could just give your head an extra shake if you were so inclined.

If, like Alice, you choose to believe in three impossible things before breakfast, you can rest easy knowing that it doesn't work that way in any case and Pluto's being ruled a non-planet in no way affects its use in astrology.
 Guardian_Of_Gaea
Joined: 6/13/2006
Msg: 235
Do you believe in Astrology?
Posted: 1/4/2007 10:03:40 PM
I, as a *practitioner* of astrology, can assure everyone that it is quite accurate, as long as you know what you're doing.

I'm not talking about joining a club to get a fake diploma or something... I'm talking about actually learning for yourself, and trying it out.

Because of astrology, I'm more confident in relationships, school, and life in general. I depend on knowing what's coming next, and astrology is the next best thing to knowing the future.

Why? Not because it literally spells out reality. Actually, it's because it gives one an understanding of circumstances surrounding everything. You know why any of us are even considering this? Because Pluto is Sextile Neptune, and has been for decades. Pluto is the planet of extremes (and just call it a planet, for pity's sake!) and rebirths, while Neptune is the planet of spirituality, idealism, and illusion.

Sextile simply means there is opportunity for combinations of the two planets' symbolisms to exist more easily.

Try explaining that scientifically... No, without using history, 'cause astrology has all that covered, too.

Check it out, and if it works for you, that's great. If it doesn't (and I don't know how that could be), then don't bash it; just move on to the next thing you want to try out.

~ David
 eye4light
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 236
view profile
History
Do you believe in Astrology?
Posted: 1/4/2007 11:01:35 PM
Do I [*snicker] believe in [*snort, sniff] ...Astrology? [*milk comes out my nose][rolling on the floor laughing] Uh...no.



Harboring such prejudice against people just because they popped out of their mom on any particular date regardless of the reason why (natural birth, early delivery due to medical emergency, when the doctor decided to schedule a C-section) is just plain wrong and unjust.

You should judge people by their own merits.
 lonewolfoo9
Joined: 12/29/2006
Msg: 237
Do you believe in Astrology?
Posted: 1/5/2007 5:23:34 AM
Astrology is not about judgement, its completely the opposite. Astrologers are generally the most non judgemental people I know. I have been practising Astrology for over 35 yrs. I have a clientile, they pay me money. Now either I and them have missed something here or Astrology is solid.

The planets represent the energy emitted by the Godhead. Its a language as mytholigical language is. Mythology is like a picture, and the Chinese say a picture is worth 10,000 words. Something most people seem not to understand. Joseph Cambell would be a good starting point for those who wish to see deeper into the Mythological.

When you are born, this is the point where you left off. Its a state of consciousness with all the attributes of the personality. What it represent is your attitude. Time does not go backwards but forwards. Therefore the planets "represents" the forward movement of the Godhead. God is talking to you in life. As Life. Therefore God is moving you forward not backwards, we do not regress, but we can stalemate ourselves by having a closed mind. Mind is the builder.

"Millionaires do not have astrologers, billionaires do" JP Morgan, Evangiline Adams was his astrologer.

Joyce Jillson was Regans astrologer. Regan was an Aquarius, Ultrasim. He was extremely friendly and very open to anyone.
 eye4light
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 238
view profile
History
Do you believe in Astrology?
Posted: 1/5/2007 6:01:36 PM

Astrology is not about judgement, its completely the opposite. Astrologers are generally the most non judgemental people I know.

Astrologers may be nice people but I think it’s obvious that they do pre-judge people by the simple fact that astrology prejudges people according to what day and time they went from living in a womb to living outside a womb.

For example, here is what the OP wrote -

Do you believe in Astrology? I hope so but even if you don't I bet I could tell you all about yourself based of your birth date…


For another example, here is what you (Lonewolfoo9) wrote -

Regan was an Aquarius, Ultrasim [ultraism?]. He was extremely friendly and very open to anyone.


It’s a huge mistake to assume that because someone is an Aquarius, they are “extremely friendly and very open to anyone”. Could it be that no one born at the same time as Reagan is unfriendly or not “open to anyone” or not an ultraist? I’d find that hard to believe.

Astrology is a faith with no empirical evidence whatsoever to support it (a few personal anecdotes don’t count) just as in the dogma of any religion. And when an Astrologer claims that “The planets represent the energy emitted by the Godhead.” the difference between Astrology and religion appears nonexistent.

I don’t want my personality pre-judged and I think most people want to be judged on their own merits.

 lonewolfoo9
Joined: 12/29/2006
Msg: 239
Do you believe in Astrology?
Posted: 1/6/2007 4:17:39 AM
Well Eye4light, I hope you understand that I am not here to convert you over to Astrology, thats your choice. But in Astrology there are a number of factors that lead up to a personal profile. Such, as in Aquarius and Regan. If you studied Astrology you would understand that Aquarius rules the higher mind, its also eclectic in structure, which means that change comes in the form of truama. Sudden, and extreme. Not necessarily problematic but eye opening. Also its the Water Bearer which means that its a spiritual sign of energy or the holy ghost. Aquarius also rules the 11th house of hopes and wishes or accomplishments. Its a goal oriented sign and solid or fixed. Constant. Changes come erratically. Aquarius also rules Science, and we are moving into an age of Aquarius, look at the scienctific community today and in the last 20 yrs. We are just beginning to understand the deepth of Science now.

Regan was very ultraistic, he valued a good debate without harbouring hard feelings. Also he was extreme with his policies of finace because he understand on a higher level the value of the buck and the process of how money in debt finacing worked. Also he was a Liberal at one time and switch his political views but still held the strong belief that its people that matter. He valued freedom which is Aquarius in nature, "Gorbechev tear down the wall". Also, Regan met John Lennon at a monday night football game, and they got along famously, You'd think there would be a clash but both Regan (Sun sign Aquarius) and Lennon (moon sign Aquarius) had more in common than they really knew.
Take that into consideration that his rising sign was Capicorn and you see a combination that when he experiences a new element he proceeds with Caution which is a Capricorn trait. Serious but also childlike in nature. Not one to fool with.
In astrology there are 12 houses and 12 planets (with double rulerships) that combine and create 144K different combinations to reflect the personality. So to generalize in Astrology as the Newspapers do is entertainment. You are unaware of all of this because You have prejudged and condemned it. As Kepler said, "Sir I have studied Astrology, you have not" and its that simple.

But I will interject something I feel many may not understand, the idea of judgement is needed in this world. If we do not judge we cannot understand, the biblical form of Judgement is based on condemnation. Its not our right to condemn. Its our duty to understand which leads to forgiveness and compassion. The bible was not written in English or modern form. Its based on a limited stucture of Semantics of the time, thus allegory in the form of myth. Mythology has many meanings in a simple story. Joseph Cambell was excellent at understanding this structure.

--Could it be that no one born at the same time as Reagan is unfriendly or not “open to anyone” or not an ultraist? I’d find that hard to believe.--

Why is it hard to believe, ever notice twins that are born within seconds of each other. They finish each others sentences often, studies have proven the closeness of twins many times. But I have not met an Aquarius that was not in part a humanitarian. Many Aquarius and Pisces people will give you the shirt off there backs in a troubled time. Also, Aquarius as all signs are in everyones chart, we all have them throughout our charts. Dig a little deeper into it and you may awaken something within you.

Lets look at Aires in a sun sign, I am sure you know yourself. Aires can be headstrong, not stubborn but in a sense wish to be a leader or pioneer. They are the first into a situation because they are affirmative and take action quicker than most. Its the sign of birth, the beginning. They often opt for what is new, and wish to explore all possiblities, but they also are like a match, once lit they engulf themselves into a situation, to a certain point then burn out. They always need something new. Compare that to a taurus and you got a person who pretty well refuses to change, they need to change with trauma as all fixed signs do, they values resources and work hard to maintain a steady supply. Simply Taurus has more direction then Aires. Brief but to the point.

Your an Aires, you are headstrong because by your writtings there is no "if ands or buts".
Your also a photojournalist (a pisces element strong in your chart I would assume) which allows you to explore to pioneer. The generalization of the sun sign is there, but the real you as a person lies in the interior of your chart.
 Guardian_Of_Gaea
Joined: 6/13/2006
Msg: 240
Do you believe in Astrology?
Posted: 1/6/2007 12:52:38 PM
^^^^

Kudos! glad to see some astrological rhetoric these days!

Eye4light, don't take astrology seriously if you don't want to, but don't be judgmental towards us, either, okay?

BTW, it's okay to do research and learn what supposedly isn't true, and test it...

After all, it's called The Scientific Method... :)

The same Method that is how astrology is still trusted today by those who have tried it.

It's not about saying, haha! I know your future!

It's about learning things about yourself that otherwise would take a therapist. I should know, I go through therapy, and astrological research into myself has led me further.

I hope you find it within you to explore the possibilities beyond your trust margin...

~ David

PS: to anyone who would bring up the bible: the three Wise men were led by a star, supposedly... what do you really think that means...

When someone is born, they are called the "native" to their natal chart (the horoscope of their birth)...
Why do you think it's called the Nativity? :P
 lonewolfoo9
Joined: 12/29/2006
Msg: 241
Do you believe in Astrology?
Posted: 1/6/2007 5:29:56 PM
--the three Wise men were led by a star, supposedly... what do you really think that means...--

Interesting you should note that. The three wise men were astrologers from Babylon, and the Babylonians where in effect a part of the earlier Sumer race who where the first Astrologers know to mankind at 4k BCE. The star they followed what not generally a star but a planet. Jupiter. Christ was born with Venus, saturn, jupiter, moon and the planetary nodes in Pisces. Early christianitys symbol was the fish. what the wise men followed was the retrograde action of saturn as it made its conjunction to Jupiter with the stellium in pisces. The middle east is ruled by pisces and thats way there is so much fanatical religious vigor in the area. Pisces also rules Oil.
The early Greek Gnostics referred to the heavens as "The Hall of Records". Interesting is it not.

Astrology has opened up so many doors to philisophy and culture I think that everyone should at least understand that it has a way of changing the way you perceive what you experience.

The ancient Sumers had a list of names that they used for the planets, discribed by them and with some knowledge of Pluto, Uranus and neptune which we only discovered in the last 150 yrs. How did they know about them.

Sun –a sphere- (Apsu) at its center and was circled by spherical celestial bodies. They knew of Mercury (Mummu), Venus (Lahamu), Earth (Ki), the Moon (Kingu), Mars (Lahmu), Jupiter (Kishar), Saturn (Anshar), Uranus (Anu), Neptune (Ea), Pluto (Gaga) and a mysterious celestial body known as Marduk or Nibiru.

Marduk is the Babylonian god. Now if that is not of interest to those who speculate, could you please tell me how they knew of these outer planets 4,000 BCE.
 eye4light
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 242
view profile
History
Do you believe in Astrology?
Posted: 1/6/2007 10:23:35 PM
Lonewolfoo9, I know you’re “not here to convert [me] over to Astrology” and I don’t expect to change your beliefs either. That’s OK. We don’t have to agree in order to have a discussion. I think it’s even more interesting if we have differing opinions. Don’t you?

In your attempt to offer substantial proof of Astrology by telling me that you know my personality just by looking at my profile and consulting the stars, you’ve demonstrated the accuracy that I would expect from a wild guess – part right; part wrong.

Using Astrology, you mistakenly pre-judged me in the following statements –

Lets look at Aires in a sun sign, I am sure you know yourself. Aires can be headstrong, not stubborn but in a sense wish to be a leader or pioneer. They are the first into a situation because they are affirmative and take action quicker than most. Its the sign of birth, the beginning. They often opt for what is new, and wish to explore all possiblities, but they also are like a match, once lit they engulf themselves into a situation, to a certain point then burn out. They always need something new.


Your an Aires, you are headstrong because by your writtings there is no "if ands or buts".
Your also a photojournalist (a pisces element strong in your chart I would assume) which allows you to explore to pioneer. The generalization of the sun sign is there, but the real you as a person lies in the interior of your chart.

While it’s true that I like to explore and I value creativity “the generalization of the sun sign” regarding me are definitely not there.

I do think about some things long enough to form an opinion but I’m not headstrong and “affirmative and take action quicker than most”.

On the contrary, my former wife complained that it takes me too long to reach my decision and take action. People who view the world in more black and white terms than I do often are much quicker to take action. I tend to view the world as having lots of grays so it takes me longer to sort through all the options.

I’m fairly independent in that I see the value in not following the lemmings but I have no “wish to be a leader”; I just like being myself.

Your "no if ands or buts" analysis of me is way off mark.

I am actually very open-minded and I like to hear and consider the opinions of others. What you see in the forums is simply me talking about some of the things that I have formed an opinion on. It’s good to strike a balance between being overly opinionated and being wishy-washy.

To maintain creativity in personal and professional endeavors, I try to look at challenges in ways that are different from those before me. I have no need personally to opt for what is new just because it is new. I like a lot of the old things in my life and value many things from the time of my grandparents.

The assertion that I am “like a match, once lit [I] engulf [myself] into a situation, to a certain point then burn out.” is completely wrong.

I have outlasted a number of my colleagues who burned out while I remained inspired. I am not boasting but merely telling you what others have said about me and what I know to be true. It was my goal to never burn out and to stay fresh and productive and I credit my success at that to being a balanced person who does not blow up like an igniting match.

As for your anecdotal evidence concerning the accuracy of Astrological predictions of Reagan’s personality, I’m still not convinced that all people with the identical sign as Reagan have the identical personality.

To say that twins are similar just because they have the same sign completely ignores the fact that their genetic makeup is as close as clones and they are usually raised and nurtured in the very same environment.

Are all the good people and bad people born on different days? Isn’t this idea rather insulting to those who have the same Astrological chart as Charles Manson or Osama bin Laden?

Guardian_Of_Gaea, I’m sorry you got the impression that I was being judgmental when I argued my point for not believing in Astrology. After all, I was only answering the OP’s thread question, “Do you believe in Astrology?”

In response to your statement –
BTW, it's okay to do research and learn what supposedly isn't true, and test it...
After all, it's called The Scientific Method... :)
The same Method that is how astrology is still trusted today by those who have tried it.

Well I must say that I do agree with the idea that “it's okay to do research and learn what supposedly isn't true, and test it” but it is precisely the results of scientific method that convinces me Astrology is not an accurate method of judging people you have never met.

I hope you understand that I’m not judging you in an overly harsh way; I’m just disagreeing with you about Astrology.






 lonewolfoo9
Joined: 12/29/2006
Msg: 243
Do you believe in Astrology?
Posted: 1/7/2007 10:12:07 AM
Eye, I hope you don't mind but I will elabortate just a bit more.

Headstrong is not stubborn, Aires represent the warrior in us. The ruler of Aires is Mars, now mars can be in a soft sign or a hard sign at birth. Such as if your Aires was in Pisces, you would be a dreamer working towards some artistic goal because it offers the Aries influence of transendence, often getting an impression from another plane of existence. Therfore the Aires in you would be soft compassionate and would lead to action concerning the inflicted, you would not like to see pain in other. In a sense you would be a spiritual warrior.

Say Aries was in Capricorn at birth, you would be stoic, cautious, ambitious . You would take your time to complete any task given to you. Less compassion because you would understand that the way out of any situation is to work hard, no romaticism as with the Pisces influence, you would need to produce instead of being lazy. In physical sense a need to produce.

Now take that into consideration and the idea of Aries, of being who you want to be (identity) and living the life you desire to live with either Pisces or Cap as the ruler of the sign.

I am trying to give you an understanding of the depth of the chart. Its very complicated once you get the gist. A generalization of Aires is not the end all.

--On the contrary, my former wife complained that it takes me too long to reach my decision and take action. (that does not say that when you decide that you do not act instantly once you made the decision) People who view the world in more black and white terms than I do often are much quicker to take action. I tend to view the world as having lots of grays so it takes me longer to sort through all the options.--

This has nothing to do with the sun sign. Its based on the attitude which is the beginning of the inner chart or the rising sign. Its part of the mental faculties such as Mercury(mind) and Uranus (individuality) plus Venus (self worth and emotions).
Here let me give you an understanding of how the planets work.

Sun--Spiritual energy
Moon--the personality and how one shows there emotions
Mercury--the mind, what area that the mind originates
Venus--self worth, emotions
Mars--physical energy
Jupiter--reasoning and philosphical views
Saturn--your personal relationship with reality
Uranus--your individuality and how if functions
Neptune--how you transend and rise above situations, illusionary and visions, the imagination
Pluto--transformation and resurrection. the area where one recreates oneself.
Nodes of the moon--North node, the direction ones energy is moveing towards
South Node, the area in which we absorb energy that moves us forward.

This is on a wheel of 360 degrees with 12 energy zones and with aspects.

Lets say an aspect of 90 degrees between Venus and Saturn-This would indicate a person who is unaware of how they show and emit there emotional self worth in the physical. There would be a conflict with there emotional self and that of there realtionship to reality. They would be unasured of themselves.

Lets use the same planets in a trine. venus trine Saturn--and easy flow of energy supporting the self worth and proper display of there emotional self on the physical, confidence.

Lets add Uranus in the picture and with an opposition to Venus in the first 90 degree example, the sense of being unassured would create a conflict with the individuality of the self thus creating a person who would be reliant on the feed back of others looking for approval.

Now with the second example the trine and venus opposite Uranus. This person is so self assured that they tend to confront others over there individuality and become extreme if someone was to try to force them into conformity. They would feel detached form the crowd.
Oppostions are conflict.

Carl Jung, Galileo, Kepler, Shelly, Da Vinci where all astrologers. These are not supid people. Many modern day Phycologist are now studing Astrology.

The idea of Astrology and Astrologers is to help people focus there energy in the proper direction according to the chart which is a blueprint of the personality. To help avoid or lessen any future conflicts with progressions and help them understand the self. Some people who live simple lives do not need the help of Astrologers, but we all know that there are those whose lives are so complicated that the need for assistance is necessary.
 trippy_hare
Joined: 5/30/2006
Msg: 244
Do you believe in Astrology?
Posted: 1/7/2007 10:32:48 AM
I've found astrology to be rather accurate in my case (I'm a Scorpio... much to my chagrin =P). But what REALLY freaks me out and gives me the willies is how accurate the quick synopsis Kabalarian name analysis is/was. http://www.kabalarians.org is the URL (I think). I haven't been in a good 2 years, but when I did, it was spot-on. Even for my net-nicknames.
 HilbertSpace
Joined: 8/13/2006
Msg: 245
Do you believe in Astrology?
Posted: 1/7/2007 10:53:54 AM
If you really want to use the scientific method, I would propose an experiment like this:

Take a bunch of astrological characterizations - the types floating around this thread would probably be just fine, if this sort of thing could be considered generally acceptable by the community of astrologers. Separate the individual paragraphs from each description. In some cases, you might have to separate a single paragraph into multiple parts. The goal is to separate the individual "atoms" of characterization so that your test subjects could build a whole out of an individual assembly of parts.

Your test subjects, ideally, would be a group of people who have no experience or knowledge of astrology (which could prejudice them insofar as they might know the "right" answer ahead of time). Your research assistant who administers the test should not know the origin of any given paragraph, nor should he know the sign of any of the test subjects. You would want to have as many test subjects as possible, with the minimum number being determined by the number of characterization-atoms and the number of signs. Give each test subject some paragraphs (somewhere between 10% and 50% of the available paragraphs). This controls for a subject knowing approximately how many they should mark. They should be told that they could reasonably mark all, none, or any number in between. The subset of paragraphs should be randomly chosen from all of the available ones, not balanced out by origin. Have each subject mark the paragraphs which they feel describe them with a positive response, and the ones that don't describe them with a negative response.

Scoring would be done by cluster analysis of the results. The hypothesis is that the clusters would form to indicate a correlation between the astrological descriptions selected by the subjects and the ones assigned by the astrologers. The null hypothesis would be that such clusters would not form in a statistically meaningful way. The results would have to correct for descriptions that were shared among several signs.

Good luck with the funding...

And just as a by-the-by about historical scientists who believed in astrology - Newton believed in alchemy, and Darwin ended up supporting some pretty outlandish ideas proposed by Lamarck. In their defense, the subjects didn't at the time seem to be as God-awful as they are known to be today. In any case, the argument from authority is a pretty weak one. Science advances by figuring out where everyone else has gotten it wrong, or at least seeing connections that they missed.
 And Can It Be
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 246
Do you believe in Astrology?
Posted: 1/7/2007 1:05:20 PM
HilbertSpace: I would venture to say that you are probably the smartest man on the forums. As a fellow New Mexican, I'm proud to know that you live in Albuquerque. Are you getting your Ph.D. at UNM?

On topic: I love your experiment--especially "Good luck with the funding..." Hey, I thought the government had tons of money.
 Guardian_Of_Gaea
Joined: 6/13/2006
Msg: 247
Do you believe in Astrology?
Posted: 1/7/2007 1:51:01 PM
You really don't trust your intuition do you?

And you consider yourselves enlightened...

No offense. I simply wish people would trust their instincts a bit more than usual.

It's strange, if HilbertSpace really wanted to test astrology scientifically, it's very easy to do so.

Do horoscopes. Duh.

There's a reason it's been around as long as it has.

BTW, there's more in astrology being discovered even now. Within the last hundred years, harmonics have lead to a whole new understanding of some of the greatest and most horrific events and people in history. Mozart's 5th Harmonic, which illustrates the extent of one's talent, has half of the planets conjunct. In essence, his chart is nearly a Great Quincunx, which is immensely rare.

There's nothing wrong with experimentation under the impression that your hypothesis will be correct. In fact, that's what's supposed to happen. It means we're moving forward in our understanding, because we intuitively knew what to hypothesize.

The Tao that can be explained is not Tao.

~ David
 eye4light
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 248
view profile
History
Do you believe in Astrology?
Posted: 1/9/2007 12:56:34 AM
It's strange, if HilbertSpace really wanted to test astrology scientifically, it's very easy to do so.
Do horoscopes. Duh.

Why do you say, “Duh”?

Just “doing horoscopes” is not a scientific method of determining that Astrology is true. I think that’s just a way of looking for supportive anecdotes, not actual science.

Lonewolfoo9, for example, has been trying to prove Astrology to me by “doing” my horoscope instead of proving it scientifically and she keeps missing the mark.

Her attempt to describe me, even on her more detailed rebuttal, falls short of being more accurate than a guess. I don’t choose to take this thread off-topic by dwelling on her every point about me but I do insist that there are several big mistakes in her assumptions about who I am.

I am being pre-judged by the use of Astrology and one will ever know me, or anyone else for that matter, by reading a chart.

In fact, I find it strange that so many people actually want to be pre-judged. Weird.


There's a reason it's been around as long as it has.

Just because something has been around for a long time, doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true.

For example, most major religions have been around hundreds or even thousands of years and most of their followers strongly believe that theirs is the one right one. They can’t all be 100% right and yet be in such conflict with one another. That would be illogical.

If scientific method has not proven Astrology by now - and it hasn’t - then the chance of it being proven in the future seems to be diminishing.



 Guardian_Of_Gaea
Joined: 6/13/2006
Msg: 249
Do you believe in Astrology?
Posted: 1/9/2007 9:42:52 AM
It truly does depend on how far you're willing to look, to be honest.


By the way, the reason Horoscopes would work is that, as one gets to know a person whose horoscope they have done, they will find that much of their intuitive grasp of the symbolic meanings involved in the horoscope is worthy of being considered true-to-life.

It is not pure empirical thinking that leads to scientific advancement... it's going out on a limb and being creative, and trusting one's intuitive grasp of the universe when it comes.

I have read a book written by a former theoretical physicist regarding the connection between Eastern mysticism and physics... The difficulty that a Westerner's mind has trying to think in the Eastern mystic way is almost perfectly analogous to the difficulty reconciling quantum and classical physics.

The use of the word Duh was certainly uncalled for I admit... I'd have deleted it, but when I realized my error it was too late.

Anyway, I just wanted to explain the view I have regarding what is the best way to go about enriching one's life, even though it should only rightly apply to myself, and no other.

~ David
 eye4light
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 250
view profile
History
Do you believe in Astrology?
Posted: 1/9/2007 9:25:44 PM
It is not pure empirical thinking that leads to scientific advancement... it's going out on a limb and being creative, and trusting one's intuitive grasp of the universe when it comes.

There seems to be some confusion here as to how the scientific process works.

Perhaps the words of the American Heritage Dictionary will help -

scientific method
n. The principles and empirical processes of discovery and demonstration considered characteristic of or necessary for scientific investigation, generally involving the observation of phenomena, the formulation of a hypothesis concerning the phenomena, experimentation to demonstrate the truth or falseness of the hypothesis, and a conclusion that validates or modifies the hypothesis.

Creativity is important in formulating new hypotheses but the resulting conclusion is not to be based on believing one’s intuition – it is the empirical process that validates or modifies the hypothesis.

Show ALL Forums  > Religion  > Do you believe in Astrology?