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| Why is McCain getting $58,000 a year in disability income?
Posted: 7/14/2008 4:30:40 AM | You are way out of line and totally misinformed. What several of the other posts said doesn't begin to describe how much Senator McCain suffered.He was kept at the Hanoi Hilton which was the most brutal POW camp in Vietnam.
Hoa Lo Prison (nicknamed the "Hanoi Hilton") was no more and no less "brutal" than any other POW camp in North Vietnam. The POWs who endured the worst treatment were not in the North, they were in the South and kept in tiger cages suspended from trees. Most of them died. I know one "cage guy" who still has significant PTSD 35 years later.
He was flat tortured for six and a half years, many of his bones were broken(I think even both his legs) and he gave up nothing.
McCain's bones weren't originally broken in torture, they were broken in his crash/ejection injury. He broke both his arms and one leg. You can read about the incident here:
http://www.pownetwork.org/bios/m/m125.htm
There was a PBS( very f-ing liberal) documentary on the subject and even it acknowledged his exemplary service. In fact all he would have had to do to be released was sing like I am sure you would have, and they would have let him go. But he didn't and instead took 6+years of torture. So show some respect for a man that gave a great sacrifice for this country.
McCain was held for 5 1/2 years. His shootdown date was October 26, 1967 and he was released March 14, 1973. Regardless of rank, Nam POWS were released in order of length of confinement. The longest held were released on February 12.
McCain's father and grandfather were Navy Admirals, and his father was Commander-in-Chief of the Pacific Command during the time McCain was in prison. McCain said:
I knew that because of my father the North Vietnamese would try to obtain more than the usual propaganda. They worked on setting my right arm for an hour and a half, trying to align the three broken bones - all without any sedation. When it was over they took me into a room with a nice bed, in came the TV cameras and I was filmed with a French Communist. They wanted me to tell about the lenient and humane treatment I had received. As soon as the filming was over I was put back in my room. They gave me one operation on my leg (said I needed two but because of my bad attitude I would get one). My left arm was to heal itself.
After six weeks in the hospital I was put in prison. My weight was down to 100 from 155 and my roommates said later that they had not expected that I could live one week. George Day and Norris Overly kept me alive during those days I was incapacitated. In March 1968 I started two years of living in solitary.
They tried many designs to force me to embarrass my father and the United States. I found that prayer helped. It wasn't a question of asking for superhuman strength or for God to strike the North Vietnamese dead. It was asking for moral and physical courage, for guidance and wisdom to do the right thing. I asked for comfort when I was in pain and sometimes I received relief. I was sustained in many times of trial.
Same link as above.
John McCain is a POW in good standing, and he would not have been had he "spilled" or accepted special treatment. Several Vietnam POWS are currently helping him with his campaign.
ALL POW returnees gave some information to their captors. However, they were clever and combined outrageous lies with the information -- rendering it rather useless. They developed a sort of "code of conduct" that basically said that they would endure as much as they could without giving any information, but that they would give up some in order not to be killed (which is what happened to many NamPows who refused to talk at all).
Any POW that lived did "talk", but the information given was mostly half-truths or complete fabrications. | |
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| Why is McCain getting $58,000 a year in disability income?
Posted: 7/14/2008 4:51:08 AM | | I would like to know how he got that kind of money? I get 765.00 dollars a month and they think you can live on that, give me a break. You don't see our other men or women coming home making that kind of money that got hurt. I guess you have to be someone special....Don't want my President on disabilty why would you? | |
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| Why is McCain getting $58,000 a year in disability income?
Posted: 7/14/2008 4:55:23 AM | Your information is at best wrong and at worse a deliberate misrepresentation of facts. So what he owns a few houses, this is America and if you can make it you can do it plain and simple. If Barak Obama could not even tie his own shoes because of having been tortured and imprisoned for this country ( Johns McCain can not tie his own shoes due to his being tortured ) then I would have no objection what so ever to his being compensated for that.
Also if you would research it you would find that " SSA " or " SSDI " rules of application and determination of disability are far different from that of V.A. and Military Disability retirement. It is not impossible to qualify for one and not for the other. It happens all the time. V.A. Disability is also based upon percentage of disability where SSA and SSDI are based solely on total. With John McCains acquired rank prior to his being medically retired the amount states is commuserate to the percentage he recieves .
You go through what he has then come back and complain. Until this you are voiceing an very uneducated and unfounded opinion.
As to his support of a new G.I. Bill, you need to do your homework on that as well. What John McCain is looking for is one that will do the job over the long run, and one that will be fair to all, not some short term band-aid.
Colonel Walt Johnson | |
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| Why is McCain getting $58,000 a year in disability income?
Posted: 7/14/2008 4:58:35 AM | | You go into the service, be held five and a half years and tortured every day of that and become disabled as a result of that and then you go from there. Also, go back and look at all the U. S. Presidents who would have qualified for Disability under current laws, Franklin Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, Abraham Lincoln ( manic depressive and bipolar ), The list goes on, as long as the mind is there what difference does it make if the body has issues? | |
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| Why is McCain getting $58,000 a year in disability income?
Posted: 7/14/2008 5:00:46 AM | | When the NVA discovered they were holding the son and grandson of Admirals they offered to release him and send him home at once. John McCain refused release unless everyone else could go with him, which the NVA was not going to do. That is integrity. | |
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| Why is McCain getting $58,000 a year in disability income?
Posted: 7/14/2008 7:38:01 AM | Yep, that's correct. The code among them was that they would all return home together, and any one who accepted an early release is not considered a POW in good standing by the fraternal organization (NamPows, Inc.) Look up Bobby Garwood.
There is one notable exception -- Doug Hegdahl. He was offered early release, and was ordered to go home by the senior officer (Dick Stratton). He was drilled with the names of every known POW, and when he came home he gave them to authorities in debriefing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Hegdahl
BTW, the information in the Wikipedia is wrong. Doug did NOT memorize the names of the POWs to the tune of Old McDonald. I have a copy of a DIA movie with an interview of him where he gives a demonstration. | |
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| Why is McCain getting $58,000 a year in disability income?
Posted: 7/14/2008 9:15:22 AM | Counseling individuals on their retirement benefits was my specialty while I was active duty Air Force, so I was considered an expert by many and actually received the USAF Commendation Medal in recognition of my job performance. Another part of my job was Casualty Notification and Casualty Assistance where I handled benefits for survivors of Air Force personnel KIA, and was the main contact for MIA/POW wives. I know this stuff inside and out. My active duty tour was from 1966 to 1970.
That being said, John McCain does not receive disability income. He receives military retired pay just like all personnel serving 20 years or more active duty. Since he was active duty 23 years, he receives 57.5% of his active duty pay as his retired pay. Because all retired military received a cost of living increase his pay has reached $58K but it didn't start out that high.
Now here's where the disability part comes in. Part of the retirement process is a complete physical at which time any service-connected disability is awarded to those who are eligible. This has always been a well known tax loophole and every high ranking military officer I ever counseled already knew about it.
The fomula used to compute how much of their military retired pay deemed non-taxable is as follows. Whatever percentage of disability awarded is applied to their active duty pay as non-taxable to their retired pay. For an example, a member retiring at 20 years receives 50% of his active duty pay as his retired pay. If that same member is awarded 50% disability that would mean that retiree would pay no income tax on his reired pay.
Every high ranking officer knew to try to get as much disability awarded to them as they could. I would venture to say that retired Generals Colin Powell and Wesley Clark are receiving this type of tax break as well. | |
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| Why is McCain getting $58,000 a year in disability income?
Posted: 7/14/2008 9:51:09 AM | It's disability, you're confusing (obfuscating) with his pension.
Disabled means unable. If he can hold the job of presidency, I don't see how's he's disabled. Unless he's mentally disabled, in which case he should not be in charge of a country with such serious decision making.
I don't see any physical disabilities on the man; do you? He's more active than most 70 somethings I know, with all of his campaigning, etc. So what's the deal? Is he mentally ill, or is he a thief?
To be eligible for collecting disability payments you must prove, in front of a judge, that you are no longer able to work, and that has to be verified by a medical panel. If, after you begin collecting disability, it is deemed that you are in fact able to work, you may no longer collect disability payments.
Yes, he was tortured while he was a POW. If the medical panel agrees that he is permanently disabled as a result of those actions, then he is fully entitled to compensations. However, how can he then say that the current veterans do not need more money? In an economy that is going downhill, with prices of everything going ever higher, the extra money in the GI bill is 'over generous'? I think not. | |
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| Why is McCain getting $58,000 a year in disability income?
Posted: 7/14/2008 6:52:34 PM | It's disability, you're confusing (obfuscating) with his pension.
Disabled means unable. If he can hold the job of presidency, I don't see how's he's disabled. Unless he's mentally disabled, in which case he should not be in charge of a country with such serious decision making.
I don't see any physical disabilities on the man; do you? He's more active than most 70 somethings I know, with all of his campaigning, etc. So what's the deal? Is he mentally ill, or is he a thief?
To be eligible for collecting disability payments you must prove, in front of a judge, that you are no longer able to work, and that has to be verified by a medical panel. If, after you begin collecting disability, it is deemed that you are in fact able to work, you may no longer collect disability payments.
You are talking about something you don't understand. I work at the VA, and when it comes to disability, the VA has it's own standards, assessments, definitions, and procedures. I know a number of veterans who are 100% service connected for PTSD who work and receive their compensation/pension/disability check (take your pick). By VA standards, being 100% service connected does not mean 100% unable to work. A case in point are veterans who are rated below 100%, let's say 70% as an example, who get paid slightly above the 100% rating because the VA has determined they are unemployable. At that point, you're technically disabled. Also, there is an additional compensation for conditions associated with agent orange which McCain has experienced.
Now if that is confusing, I understand. You're not the only one who gets confused, and even I don't know all the ins and outs of the system despite working there. However, veteran's receiving similar compensation as McCain are not unheard of. Rest assured that had the VA determined that he was receiving money he did not deserve, it would have been stopped and he would have been made to repay every penny.
In summary, McCain is not pulling a fast one or getting preferential treatment because he is a Senator. And any politician who even tries to make that argument is going to get burned badly. This is not going to go anywhere, so leave the land mine alone and find something else to focus on. And BTW, I am a democrat, and don't support McCain.
One last thing, DO YOU KNOW WHY McCAIN IS NOT SUPPORTING THE BILL OR ARE YOU JUST COMING TO YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS WITHOUT KNOWING THE FULL STORY? | |
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| Why is McCain getting $58,000 a year in disability income?
Posted: 7/14/2008 7:35:01 PM | He's not supporting the bill because the soldiers would be able to better themselves through an education and not be ready for another tour of duty.
"It is important to do that because, otherwise, we will encourage more people to leave the military after they have completed one enlistment," McCain said.
Those are his words. It comes down to retention.
John McCain wants to keep the college benefit of the GI Bill crummy enough so that soldiers will stay put rather than try and get an education.
Also, isn't it disingenuous to admit to not knowing the 'ins and outs' a a system, and come to the conclusion that he's not pulling a fast one. I've heard horror stories from vets with amputations and bullet holes who don't get as much as he does. | |
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| Why is McCain getting $58,000 a year in disability income?
Posted: 7/14/2008 7:52:24 PM | It was Cindy's house with the tax oversight (already paid). McCain and his wife keep completely separate finances, and have a prenuptial agreement.
VA and other service benefits are HUGELY complicated. It is not surprising that a person who works in the VA, even for many years, doesn't know the ins and outs of every program. In addition, POWs are eligible for Combat-Related Special Compensation (CRSC) which allows them to get both their military retired pay and VA disability. Under old laws retired pay was reduced by VA disability benefits. See:
http://www.military.com/benefits/military-pay/special-pay/combat-related-special-compensation
There is also a web site that outlines the VA program for former POWS:
http://www.vba.va.gov/bln/21/Benefits/POW/
Knock yourself out and learn all about it, rather than slinging insults at people who put their behinds on the line in service to their country. Agree with a war or don't, but respect the sacrifice and heroism of those who served. | |
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| Why is McCain getting $58,000 a year in disability income?
Posted: 7/14/2008 8:11:30 PM |
He's not supporting the bill because the soldiers would be able to better themselves through an education and not be ready for another tour of duty.
Wow! You got me convinced with your well researched response. 
Or maybe you can tell me why he's not supporting the bill.
Not necessary. I've made my point. Your opinion is not based on anything substantial.
Also, isn't it disingenuous to admit to not knowing the 'ins and outs' a a system, and come to the conclusion that he's not pulling a fast one.
I may not know all the ins and outs, but I definitively have more information, knowledge, and understanding about the system than you do. Like I said, veteran's in McCain's situation are not unheard of. But if it makes you feel any better, let me rephrase. Based on what I know and understand about the VA system, I can reasonably conclude that McCain is more than likely not pulling a fast one.  | |
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| Why is McCain getting $58,000 a year in disability income?
Posted: 7/14/2008 8:18:06 PM |
"It is important to do that because, otherwise, we will encourage more people to leave the military after they have completed one enlistment," McCain said.
Those are his words. It comes down to retention.
Hey!!! You changed your response. Well at least you're making an effort to back up your opinion. | |
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| Why is McCain getting $58,000 a year in disability income?
Posted: 7/14/2008 8:32:47 PM |
Not necessary. I've made my point. Your opinion is not based on anything substantial.
What kind of an argument is that? It's not. I stated my case, you state yours.
I quoted McCain as to why he's not for the GI Bill, and it comes down to retention. He doesn't want troops leaving too soon.
What you're not doing is having an intelligent argument, and I can't blame you, we can all see you're incapable. Incapable meaning "Lacking the necessary ability, capacity, or power."
So, state your case, instead of taking your ball and going home. | |
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| Why is McCain getting $58,000 a year in disability income?
Posted: 7/14/2008 8:41:58 PM | I quoted McCain as to why he's not for the GI Bill, and it comes down to retention. I even quoted the guy. What you're not doing is having an intelligent argument, and I can see why.
Good! I read your original response before you added the quote. I am glad that you edited what you wrote at first and supported your argument by quoting the man. I have been challenging you, not because I think McCain is right, but because you had failed to provide anything substantial until now. I just wanted to make sure that you know why it is messed up that he is not supporting the bill. | |
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| Why is McCain getting $58,000 a year in disability income?
Posted: 7/17/2008 6:20:23 AM |
This thread is stupid. John McCain gets that money because he's a disabled veteran - enough said. Actually, might be worth elaborating.
1) This thread is stupid. Agreed!
2) John McCain gets the disability money because he's a disabled veteran
3) He gets the pension money because he served as in the armed services
4) None of the above necessarily qualifies him to be President of the United States. | |
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| Why is McCain getting $58,000 a year in disability income?
Posted: 7/17/2008 9:03:04 PM |
To be eligible for collecting disability payments you must prove, in front of a judge, that you are no longer able to work, and that has to be verified by a medical panel. If, after you begin collecting disability, it is deemed that you are in fact able to work, you may no longer collect disability payments.
Max Cleland and Tammy Duckworth are working? Should they be reviewed? | |
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| Why is McCain getting $58,000 a year in disability income?
Posted: 7/18/2008 8:54:18 PM | I knew of Senator McCain's POW status of course, but I did not understand the complete honor and bravery that this man displayed until this thread was started.
I am throwing my whole hearted support behind this wonderful patriot based on the things I have learned by reading this.
Thank you get mad. You are right, Sen. McCain is the man for the job in Nov. | |
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| Why is McCain getting $58,000 a year in disability income?
Posted: 7/18/2008 9:23:50 PM | | Doesn't disabled mean unable? Unable to work? Needing supplemental income to offset the inability to work? This guy is defrauding the government. So what if he was tortured? He's for torture now, like the hypocrite he is. Do other POWs who were tortured get so much money? Do really wounded vets with amputations get so much money? You look through the comments from people who are getting disability and you'll see that it's a different story. No, this guy is on the take, and voting against the returning troops to keep them disenfranchised and tied to military service for longer periods of time. | |
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| Why is McCain getting $58,000 a year in disability income?
Posted: 7/18/2008 11:24:44 PM | | well that's all well and good but he married well to some brewer heiress and he should have had the backbone to publicly refuse it or put the money to help those less priveleged, or to clean up Walter Reed military hospital. He probably, with his wife do contribute charitably, but he could stand taller if he refused the welfare check | |
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| Why is McCain getting $58,000 a year in disability income?
Posted: 7/18/2008 11:46:25 PM | to a point...but to blindly serve an unwinnable war by offering your life as a form of blind sacrifice goes beyond the pale. I never signed any contract with the gov't to allow it and unless my country was physically invaded I'm not going to volunteer or be conscripted for some war where after all is said and done the enemy becomes our best friend...
References: WWI , WWII, Vietnam (which by the way was host country of the Miss Universe pageant, Red though it be the Trumps coincidentally recently opened a gambling casino and produce the miss Universe pageant...Vietnam where 50,000 of the cream of the crop died in vain...Americans, Canadians who joined the US armed forces , Australians etc... and now entire suburbs in the US are defacto Vietnamese turf | |
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| Why is McCain getting $58,000 a year in disability income?
Posted: 7/19/2008 10:43:25 AM |
I knew of Senator McCain's POW status of course, but I did not understand the complete honor and bravery that this man displayed until this thread was started.
I am throwing my whole hearted support behind this wonderful patriot based on the things I have learned by reading this.
Thank you get mad. You are right, Sen. McCain is the man for the job in Nov. Senator McCain is indeed an honorable and brave man, as well as a former POW. I admire his service to this country, and agree that he is a patriot. I disagree that this qualifies him to be President of the United States. I have concerns as to his age and serious questions as to his stand on the issues. So I will not be voting for him in November.
But to those who wish to tear him down and question his service to this country, I say think again. | |
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