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| If you think so poorly of women
Posted: 6/8/2008 8:15:30 PM |
No matter how much I'd like to find a guy who can read my body language and know why I'm angry without saying a word, I'm not going to find it. Why? Because he's not a woman...he's a man.
It's not that men don't know why you're angry. Yes, we knew you were angry since last Friday... we knew why... we don't have a DeLorean so that we can go back in time to put the toilet seat down. So we have two options after the anger has been provoked. We can either grab a pillow and blanket and sleep on the couch for a week until you realize it's not an offence punishable by decapitation, or we can say something and start a verbal onslaught where we will also hear about the whisker that didn't rinse out of the sink after we shaved a few months ago and the pubic hair we forgot in the bath tub 3 years ago.
It's not that we don't know, it's that we have better things to do with our lives than go through the same crap over and over and over and over again. | |
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| If you think so poorly of women
Posted: 6/8/2008 8:33:07 PM | | Fascinating. And here I thought I was being asked why I was angry because the person asking actually didn't know. Diabolical really. *lol* There are other options than the ones you presented but I'm assuming by your text that you either already know them or would debate them as true options that are available. So I'll just say if you choose to deal with the opposite sex, it doesn't hurt to accept them as they are and do the best you can with what you have to work with. This goes for men and women. Which was my actual point. :) | |
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| If you think so poorly of women
Posted: 6/8/2008 8:41:57 PM |
I suppose the men I dealt with were asking why I was angry just to hear me say it then.
Yes... because they haven't learned the couch trick yet.
And when I explained why, they chose to act like they didn't understand just for kicks.
They understood the basis for your anger... but why it made you angry was probably what confuddled them. I could teach them the couch trick so that they can avoid that sort of thing in the future. | |
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| If you think so poorly of women
Posted: 6/8/2008 8:51:24 PM | | I'd have to say, I wouldn't be terribly happy in your version of a relationship. Anger should never get to that point if both people are reasonable. I'd rather just discuss the issue for 10 minutes, and move on. Sounds a lot healthier in the long run. Different strokes for different folks I suppose. :) | |
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| If you think so poorly of women
Posted: 6/8/2008 10:14:37 PM | People who do not have an "axe to grind" tend to use forums as a source of entertainment and stay out of the types of bashing threads because after being in forums for awhile you learn that no matter what you say to a person who thinks like this you will never get through. I gave up even trying now. I don't post in those types of threads and when I see one getting out of hand that I might have posted in I don't go back anymore. There is nothing you can say to people that act like that.
Are you guys for real?
Someone asked a question and she got some honest answers. Thread got deleted.
Then there's about 10 nice guy threads every day and all the girls roll their eyes.
Which way do you want it?
Most men have been emasculated and can no longer function as real men. Heck they can't even give their opinions online without girls calling in law enforcement. Yet in the real world, women do not want these weak types. And when nice guys whine, all girls can do is look in digust and call up their neighborhood player.
The "is it all about sex" thread was a forum, in part, to justify and explain the actions of many men, but also for "nice guys" to learn how to become real men and develop a healthy perspective on women. For far too long they've been led astray by girls, and the media who tells them to act like girls. That's not bitterness. It's reality. | |
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| If you think so poorly of women
Posted: 6/8/2008 10:34:07 PM | Are you guys for real?
People have commented on the "What the hell is wrong with you people?" question in my profile.
It applies. It always applies. I'm not exempt. But it was created after "The day of stupid threads" You weren't there to witness it. There must have been an astrological event that day.
"Dear Ask a Guy,
I've been cheating on my husband's brother for 5 months. Should I tell him?"
First reply: "I think honesty is the best policy. You should tell him. It'll be ok, it's his brother!"
It went on like that for a while. | |
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| If you think so poorly of women
Posted: 6/8/2008 10:35:57 PM | Of course, Desertbulldog, you know that you are one of those I would consider bitter. Your idea of a healthy perspective on women is one that seems to lump all of them into this category of completly useless. I can't comprehend why that would be.
Again, understand this is coming from a well educated woman who put herself through school, got a great job, supported her husband when he made stupid financial decisions, put money into his continually failing business because it's what he wanted to do, bought her own house, paid her own bills and finally got rid of the man she has been supporting for many years, all well wishing him the best of luck.
I've been raped, cheated on and taken advantage of, yet I don't group all men with the few individuals who have harmed me. Instead I continue to take them as individuals, make friends with the good ones and send the others on their way. What is different between you and I? I've suffered at the hands of the opposite gender yet I don't hold them in the contempt that you seem to hold for women.
I have to say, I've never understood why people use a couple of bad experiences with any group to justify their anger towards all of that group. It happens among the genders, the races, the religions, and any other dividing line. I guess it's just more obvious between the genders because we can't avoid the opposite sex without turning celibate or being homosexual. Therefore, instead of avoiding, people go on these types of forums and try to justify their anger. | |
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| If you think so poorly of women
Posted: 6/8/2008 11:04:41 PM |
Desertbulldog, you know that you are one of those I would consider bitter. Your idea of a healthy perspective on women is one that seems to lump all of them into this category of completly useless.
How thinking a girl should contribute equally in a relationship, and observing that they rarely do, is bitterness or anger is beyond me. That was as objective and as honest an answer that you'll get on these forums. That thread wasn't about me, nor did I bring up any of my past experiences in any way, so I think you're barking up the wrong tree. | |
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| If you think so poorly of women
Posted: 6/8/2008 11:20:12 PM |
I've been raped, cheated on and taken advantage of, yet I don't group all men with the few individuals who have harmed me. Instead I continue to take them as individuals, make friends with the good ones and send the others on their way. What is different between you and I? I've suffered at the hands of the opposite gender yet I don't hold them in the contempt that you seem to hold for women.
ever notice when women start losing a battle of the sexes type argument they tend to pull out the rape card?
sure, you may not have ever forcefully stuck a finger up a guys butt.. but I'm sure you've lied to one, stood one up, told a guy you wanted to be friends while secretly(or not so secretly) dating other guys in front of them. Men who are not gods with the ladies tend to deal with a lot more mental and emotional anguish than women give us credit for.. Being men though, we lock it away.. for some guys it turns to anger, or bitterness.. other men give up entirely and turn into 40 year old virgins by filling their lives with other distractions, some guys turn into sexual predators.. it's all in how we learn to cope. that is also where a lot of guys fall into the "only looking for sex" stereotype.. they don't want to put themselves out there to get tortured emotionally anymore, so they satisfy their needs and move on. | |
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| If you think so poorly of women
Posted: 6/9/2008 5:18:34 AM | | There is a group of men (populating this site) who spend a period of time punishing any women within their reach for previous wrongs dealt by women who have been close to them. They re-live the relationship with the unsuspecting victim, then dump her in a horrible way at a sensitive time because they think in some way that giving out pain will make their own pain lessen. It is a vicious circle and one of the reasons I hate this dating merry-go-round. | |
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| If you think so poorly of women
Posted: 6/9/2008 8:19:29 AM |
but I'm sure you've lied to one, stood one up, told a guy you wanted to be friends while secretly(or not so secretly) dating other guys in front of them.
Actually, you would be wrong. I have never stood anyone up. I'm a very honest person and, if I'm dating more than one guy, all of them know it. I don't have time or interest in anything else.
I really don't see that I'm losing any argument. In fact, I wasn't aware that there was an argument here. Rather, discourse and discussion. As far as "pulling the rape card" goes, if you will look again, you will see that this was only one of the reasons I mentioned I could be bitter if I chose. In fact, I glossed over that with a very brief mention and talked a lot about the ex. Your logic is flawed. | |
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| If you think so poorly of women
Posted: 6/9/2008 9:38:12 AM | As always KthyG, you aren't afraid to ask some thought-provoking questions, which is a nice change from the whine/rants posts out here... 
KathyG asked:
This is based on a lot of the responses I am seeing to the "is it all about sex" thread. If you think so poorly of women, why are you on a dating site? I can't imagine having such a negative view of any group of people and still wanting to be around them.
I have never considered women's sole purpose to be sex; while it is certainly on the priorities list, so is their companionship, otherwise I'd just budget the rest of my life for the occasional escort and have done with it... 
I've seen a lot of negativity on these forums in the last three years I've been actively posting, from both genders. People griping about being used by the other gender in various ways and not having THEIR needs met, etc...
Personally I don't think poorly of women, I simply don't think highly of them either. By that I mean that I don't think of women as higher than me, I think of them as equal to me...
In short I don't think a woman's time is worth any more than my own, as some "old-fashioned" posters tend to endlessly maintain as the status quo. On a date the woman should be getting just as much out of my companionship as I am from hers. If not, we're both wasting our time and effort... 
This is where the old-fashioned posters gripe about money vs. companionship, and how a price can't be placed on a woman's company. Well if that's true, the same can be said for the man's companionship, because let's face it, we all need one another in this world, or we're going to die out mighty quick... Treat everyone (man or woman) well, and the world takes care of itself, in my humble opinion at least...   | |
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| If you think so poorly of women
Posted: 6/9/2008 9:39:31 AM | | I noticed this thread yesterday, and decided to go look at the other one. I got to page 3, and before I could flip to page 4, it was zapped. Maybe it got out of hand on page 4, because I didn't see any outrageous posts. A couple of blunt answers. A couple of typical funny/trollish ones. Quite a few very well thought-out and insightful ones that maybe a few people (both women and men) could have benefitted from reading again, with a mind to listen and digest logically rather than dismiss and react emotionally. | |
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| If you think so poorly of women
Posted: 6/9/2008 9:39:33 AM |
I have to say, I've never understood why people use a couple of bad experiences with any group to justify their anger towards all of that group. It happens among the genders, the races, the religions, and any other dividing line.
I think stereotypes save time which is why people initially use them. If you meet 5 people that all share the same trait, then you log that trait as being attached to whatever else they all have in common. I don't mind when people initially stereotype me because I know they're doing the best they can with previous data gathered. I'm mixed (black mom/hispanic dad) and just accept the fact that upon meeting most white people are going to assume I'm loud and like rap music. This doesn't faze me, but what I do mind is when I present myself as who I am and that is ignored in favor of the stereotype. Now that is using stereotypes to dehumanize another person, which I find sad and offensive.
As for the contempt men hold for women, I think you have to take these forums with a grain of salt. Men don't have as many outlets for expressing distaste for women as women do for men. They can't at work without being unprofessional, they can somewhat with friends but that interaction is limited and they can't with their significant other without getting in trouble. Even here they're chastised or their posts are deleted when they voice their opinion. I think many women take it for granted that we can express emotion without it being held against us.
I say give the guys a break. If a guy complains and bemoans about women, who cares? As long as when he actually interacts with a woman he gives her a fair shot to show him who she is, then there's no harm to it. We all have our moments where we need to vent. | |
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| If you think so poorly of women
Posted: 6/9/2008 10:14:34 AM | Tigerwoods and falling ember, thank you. Both of those posts have given me something new to think about. I absolutly agree that equality means just that. People enjoying each others company. I'm not gracing any man with my presence or allowing him to have sex with me for example, I'm there because we enjoy those things about each other.
I hadn't thought about men not having an outlet. I'm the first one to say to a woman that not all men are like x, y, or z. In fact, most aren't. The interesting thing about stereotypes is I find they are very rarely true. Especially when it comes to matters of charecter. I would say, in any given stereotype regarding character, there are probably 90% (made up statistic for illustration purposes) that don't conform to it, and 10% that do. Unfortunatly, that 10% are the ones who stick out and draw attention to themselves and reinforce that stereotype.
A semi-harmless example of that is dumb blondes. Most blondes are not dumb (any more than any other hair color) but you run into one blond ditz and suddenly it reinforces the stereotype. I was out at a club one night where everyone was having a great time and enjoying and having fun. In walked this one group of BBW black women. They were loud, obnoxious, catty, etc.... and brought the mood of the club down. The reinforced the negative stereotypes of women, of black women, of big women. Now, there were a bunch of other BBW black women in the club who didn't reinforce the stereotype but because the obnoxious behaviours of this small group drew attention, that's what people remembered.
It's unfortunate but bad behaviour seems to make more of an impact then the rest of the normal people. I suppose the same is true about these negative attitudes towards menwomen. Probably 90% of men and women don't conform to these negative ideals but the 10% are the ones that get the attention unfortunatly. | |
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| If you think so poorly of women
Posted: 6/9/2008 10:26:53 AM | Equality is all well and good, but there is one area where men and women seem to differ and men seem to like exploiting that difference.
A man with a negative attitude towards women will compete to have sex with a woman for an achievement and once this is done he will notch it up and move on - they are called players. I know there are some women who purport to be players! I don't believe there can be many girls though who sleep around and bonk without involving their heart - this is something some men seem quite able to do, without any sort of conscience. Cue heartbreak for the woman who is probably hoping that sex might mean wonderful love ahead. It happens all the time, I read about it here virtually every day. Some men are sh*ts, they want to punish women, and they use this sort of site as a baiting ground. | |
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| If you think so poorly of women
Posted: 6/9/2008 10:40:23 AM |
A man with a negative attitude towards women will compete to have sex with a woman for an achievement and once this is done he will notch it up and move on - they are called players. I know there are some women who purport to be players! I don't believe there can be many who sleep around and bonk without involving their heart - this is something some men seem quite able to do, without any sort of conscience. Cue heartbreak for the woman who is probably hoping that sex might mean wonderful love ahead. It happens all the time, I read about it here virtually every day.
What you call girls "involving their heart" merely means she has a high level of interest in a guy. As soon as he does something to turn you off (any sort of nice guy act), their interest level falls and will be looking for something better. It's not a conscious decision.. just evolution. In any case, that's not love.. least as I understand the term.
Male players are actually a very, very, very small % of guys. Since these are typically the guys that the same girls fall for time and time again (their high level of confidence and brashness stand out, mimicing qualities found in real men), girls actually think they are everywhere. But they are not. Most guys (nice guys, shy guys, et al.) can't get with women at all. By contrast, there is no category of girls that don't get men on a consistent basis. | |
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| If you think so poorly of women
Posted: 6/9/2008 11:02:03 AM |
PretaPorter generalized:
A man with a negative attitude towards women will compete to have sex with a woman for an achievement and once this is done he will notch it up and move on - they are called players. I know there are some women who purport to be players! I don't believe there can be many girls though who sleep around and bonk without involving their heart - this is something some men seem quite able to do, without any sort of conscience. Cue heartbreak for the woman who is probably hoping that sex might mean wonderful love ahead. It happens all the time, I read about it here virtually every day. Some men are sh*ts, they want to punish women, and they use this sort of site as a baiting ground.
I beg to differ PretaPorter, as an athletic and apparently decent-looking guy I can attest to being used for sex by at least THREE separate women in the three years since I moved to Toronto for work...
The first one was a wild and fun date: we laughed, we danced, she shagged my living daylights out, dropped me a few weeks of boinking later, and later on confessed that she had been having problems with her BOYFRIEND and that I was so nice that she needed me for a clarity f&$k...
Girl #2, similar story. Boy meets cute girl that's working as the occasional nude model along with some side jobs as an artist. I pursue, we get along great despite her not liking life here in Toronto. Things culminate in one spectacular evening of dancing and romance, and next thing you know she's decided to move across the planet (literally, she moved to Sydney Australia) and that's that. Sport f#@k number Two...
A few months back I start seeing this intelligent yet sporty girl that is also into martial arts. She's witty, sultry, and not afraid to show it. We see each other for a while, she initiates the bedroom fun one evening, then freaks out on me the next day that she allowed herself to move too quick, and ultimately confesses that she was already seeing someone else (though non-sexually), and that she needs to sort things out in her head. Mr. Woods becomes sexual plaything yet a third time...
Each of these girls I was actually genuinely interested in a relationship with, and each one had other things on their mind and neglected to clue me in on it before getting my hopes up (amongst other parts of my anatomy  ). Don't get me wrong, I don't mind getting laid, but I DO MIND getting jerked around emotionally. If all you want is my body, tell me up front and if I'm attracted to yours as well, so be it... "Consenting adults" and all that...
But your presumption that women can't have sex without SOME emotional investment is complete bull... These are but three examples of several women that have hopped on and hopped off without a trace in my life... It goes both ways, gender does not preclude this sort of behavior...  | |
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| If you think so poorly of women
Posted: 6/9/2008 4:11:15 PM |
I hadn't thought about men not having an outlet.
This is PRECISELY why many of us guys here are furious. Everywhere we go, we're mothered to death. Don't do this; don't do that. Don't drink; don't smoke; don't listen to loud music; don't eat fast food; don't show your emotions; blah blah blah. Every corner and every avenue screams "NO". Finally we find an online forum where we can let it all out, and what happens? Even here, in the anonymity of cyberspace, the mothering hordes seek us out with straitjackets and duct tape.
Now, on top of that, if guys point out that the blindingly obvious truths that most POF women (and arguably most women, period) don't bring much to a relationship and make it exceptionally difficult for a guy to get to know them, his opinions are dismissed as invalid.
Why would a guy say that stuff? Well, look at a few profiles of women. Let's say 50. Once you've done that, you'll have an appreciation for where most guys are, emotionally. The profiles are vain, vapid, and utterly boring. Once you've scoured a few hundred, and find a few people worth writing to, then you're still miles from success, as nearly all of those emails are ignored, deleted without being read, or the conversations go nowhere.
It's not whether men are bitter; it's how well most of them deal with the constant adversity and the fact that the odds are 200:1 against them that's amazing. | |
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| If you think so poorly of women
Posted: 6/9/2008 8:26:45 PM | | I think very highly of women, just alot on here that play around so rather mess around on the forums. Wouldn't matter if we went to another free dating site either as they'd be on it too. | |
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| If you think so poorly of women
Posted: 6/9/2008 8:30:29 PM |
I believe that you are furious. I am certainly NOT interested in Mothering anyone except my own children - but do you think that this attitude helps or hinders in getting you a date?
That's funny.
A man expresses his opinion, and since you don't like it, it's suddenly an angry diatribe. I wonder if a woman had expressed the same sentiment about men with the same mind set against men, if you would have deemed it as righteous indignance towards misogynists or something.
BTW, many really fury-filled men get female attention, and it certainly doesn't prevent them from getting dates, getting married, having sex, or procreating, or your implication that someone's bad attitude would be a hindrance is false. Sure those situations are unhealthy; quick reality dose here--there's a lot of them, and it's not a one-way street, either.
Speaking of mothering, it seems many women are attracted to men for qualities they eventually want to change and even eventually emasculate them over time, and turn around to complain about how he's a dull guy that isn't exciting anymore. This is one thing that men learn to resist over time and are hesitant to get involved with women beyond sexual congress; being told what to do in relationships and when women refuse to change their own lifestyles and habits because that would be a hallmark of a "controlling man" and "you don't tell me what to do!" Pure hypocrisy. Who wants to deal with a partner like that? Better to be single and proud.
The anger on some profiles is virtually tangible in some cases. Yes I have read your profile fully!
And you probably have ESP and read his aura from miles away on this guy, too, right?
BTW. Preta, here's my brutal honesty if you can handle it without flipping out: the pro-feminist tonality and the victimcard pulling is f---king annoying. You would convince others more easily by toning it down a notch. | |
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| If you think so poorly of women
Posted: 6/10/2008 3:43:51 AM | Since ultimately I'm only lookin for 1 woman, no matter what wild accusation I may feel is necessary to throw out there against the "fairer" sex, it's likely that there's an exception to it. Venting makes us all feel better, no matter what we say, most of us probably still hold the hope that there women out there worth a damn in our opinion. Lets face it, I doubt most women find the majority of men up to snuff neither.
As an example, I've found that while women call men shallow, women are willing to accept unemployed clincically depressed men that smoke excessive ammounts of weed as viable dating opertunities before dating someone with a gut like myeslf because (and this is a real scenario) the afore mentioned guy is "so hot, he's like naturally athletic looking, soooo hot." He hasn't done a sit up in 3 months and still has the makings of a 6-pack.
I ain't saying I think women should be dating me and my work in progress belly, but it irked me to find out just how shallow someone who claimed men are fixated on looks can be. I've seen it more often than not, that's why I find it refreshing to see women that say "I put work into my body, I'd hope he does the same." or "I won the genetic lottery is it that much to ask that I'm lookin for another lucky **stard?" It's honest, they're an exception to the rule though. | |
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