| for the gun control people Posted: 10/14/2009 8:53:01 PM |
Yeah, I did find that site. However, I cannot find anywhere on it where the people involved state they want to ban guns altogether. If you know of such a statement, please direct me to it.
I just checked that site myself and they state theyare not a gun ban organization. They do however want to ban certain guns such as the uzi and ak47 for example. Now the question would be can they be trusted to stop there or are they going to call for further bans if these are successful? If successful they would have no reason to elicit funds from the public unless they do expand on the ban program. It does look like a well thought out corporation and although they are claiming charity status via an education exemption they are set up to do the background checks on potential gun owners. That in itself should bring in enough funds to keep the corporation alive without the charity status and donations from the public. This tells me that if they want to keep the big money flowing in then they need to work toward a total ban in steps. Maybe they are sincere but i doubt it, a liberal is a liberal and not to be trusted. | |
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| for the gun control people Posted: 10/14/2009 10:38:40 PM | Yeah, I did find that site. However, I cannot find anywhere on it where the people involved state they want to ban guns altogether. If you know of such a statement, please direct me to it.
I don't really know, nor do I care what Jim Brady's website has to say. I just answered your question for what was the site he was reffering to. As far as wanting to ban guns, yes there are those in the gun control crowd that wish to do that. Hell search through this forum and you will find statements to support that. Whether the Brady yahoos say that or not, I don't know, but I doubt it. Not saying they don't want that...they just won't say it on record. They recieve donations from alot of folks, some of who are gun owners. These same folks don't mind more and more and more restrictions, they just don't want them banned. So to keep the money coming in, they hide their intentions, or whatever. It's just the way these special interest groups opperate. I support the 2nd Amendment a 100% and I want to see ALL FEDERAL gun laws dropped/earased/abolished (along with the ATF and some other Fed groups). Even with that, I still don't like, nor trust the NRA...they take your money and then compromise on your rights. Leave the gun control or lack there of to the States. | |
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| for the gun control people Posted: 10/14/2009 10:52:35 PM |
I just answered your question for what was the site he was reffering to.
What I actually asked for was a cite for a group called Handgun Inc. that wanted to ban guns altogether, which was his claim. Previous to that, I asked for a cite for any serious movement for banning guns altogether. So far, no one has been able to provide me with either. | |
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| for the gun control people Posted: 10/14/2009 11:02:42 PM |
I support the 2nd Amendment a 100% and I want to see ALL FEDERAL gun laws dropped/earased/abolished (along with the ATF and some other Fed groups). Even with that, I still don't like, nor trust the NRA...they take your money and then compromise on your rights. Leave the gun control or lack there of to the States. So, you're happy for the United States to be an armed camp. It doesn't matter who dies or how many, so long as you get to have a deadly weapon, no matter how dangerous, in your hands?
Brady was permanently maimed, as well as a policeman, a Secret Service Agent and your own President were shot by John Hinkley Jr, who wouldn't have been able to purchase the weapon if there was a law requiring background checks to be made. How many lives has the Brady Bill saved as well? Even if it's one, isn't it worth it?
You have your Second Amendment, but why does the scale and deadliness of the weaponry have to be so big?
From Wikipedia:
The Brady Law Today
From 1994 through 2008, 1.8 million attempted firearm purchases were blocked by the Brady background check system. For checks done by the FBI in 2008, felons accounted for 56 percent of denials and fugitives from justice accounted for 13 percent of denials[14]. In April 2009, the FBI announced it had completed its 100 millionth NICS approval since its inception 10 years before. | |
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| for the gun control people Posted: 10/14/2009 11:26:42 PM |
So, you're happy for the United States to be an armed camp. It doesn't matter who dies or how many, so long as you get to have a deadly weapon, no matter how dangerous, in your hands?
YES
I won't waist my time trying to explain why as you either get it or you don't. I really hope that those of you who oppose equal proportion of armament never have to experience why it was and will be a right of all humans from the beginning of time.
one phrase comes to mind "It can never happen here" | |
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| for the gun control people Posted: 10/14/2009 11:32:01 PM | asydneymale:
Re-read what you quoted, particularly the last sentance. All I said is to end FEDERAL LAWS (capatalized, for ease of spotting).
I'm assuming you are not from the U.S., for how you referance it and your name kinda says you may not be from the states. Essentially, that means I'm not going to bother aurguing/debating gun laws and the culture and history of the US with you. Thanks for your concern, but no thanks at the same time. | |
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| for the gun control people Posted: 10/15/2009 12:06:51 AM |
I'm assuming you are not from the U.S., for how you referance it and your name kinda says you may not be from the states. Well-spotted.
Essentially, that means I'm not going to bother aurguing/debating gun laws and the culture and history of the US with you. Thanks for your concern, but no thanks at the same time.
YES
I won't waist my time trying to explain why as you either get it or you don't. Is that the forum equivilent of 'taking your ball and going home'?
The problem is, whilst you are waiting for the opportunity to defend yourselves as the government knocks your door down, people continue to die.
Anyway, as you gentlemen mentioned, I'm an outsider and can't possibly understand your love-affair with deadly weapons. I have no guns in my house and neither does anybody I know (with the exception of my two late uncles, who were both farmers). | |
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| for the gun control people Posted: 10/15/2009 12:38:53 AM | HEY ALL YOU PEOPLE!!! why don't all of you take a real good listen, from a different perspective!!! What effect did the prohibition of alcohol have on this country's desire to use it??? For how many years now, has the sale and the abuse of illicit drugs been a problem in this country??? My point being that, it is way too easy to obtain most all things illegal in the USA, and this is no surprising fact of life. Many people in this country cannot afford to live in a place where it is safe to dwell without some kind of protection, and legal or not, anybody who feels they need to rob someone else is very likely to use a gun of some type....no arguing that fact. So if the possession of a gun were outlawed....do you believe that all the robbers are going to be first in line to turn in their guns??? Ifyou think the crime rate is high right now.....then suppose what would happen if the criminals all knew that most all of their "potential targets"(victims) were now unarmed??? Now, for just a moment, let's pretend that it were illegal to own a gun....Do you believe that the POLICE would want to give up their guns??? Of course not!!! Why?? because They know that there's far more guns illegally in the hands of criminals than in the hands of law-abiding citizens. The problem has advanced much too far, at this point, to be solved by banning guns. | |
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| for the gun control people Posted: 10/15/2009 12:47:52 AM |
Is that the forum equivalent of 'taking your ball and going home'?
No this is the equivalent of I don't care what you think about a country you don't live in.
Pick which one you want to outlaw first?
http://www.unitedjustice.com/death-statistics.html
http://www.benbest.com/lifeext/causes.html
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| for the gun control people Posted: 10/15/2009 1:58:29 AM | Don't be too harsh on us Mr Frzhusker. We have been raised in a society where firearms are comparatively rare and not as contested a social issue as in your amazing land.
You also have to appreciate that this is an international forum, not just the U.S.A. | |
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| for the gun control people Posted: 10/15/2009 6:05:04 AM | I just checked that site myself and they state theyare not a gun ban organization. They do however want to ban certain guns such as the uzi and ak47 for example. Now the question would be can they be trusted to stop there or are they going to call for further bans if these are successful? If successful they would have no reason to elicit funds from the public unless they do expand on the ban program. It does look like a well thought out corporation and although they are claiming charity status via an education exemption they are set up to do the background checks on potential gun owners. That in itself should bring in enough funds to keep the corporation alive without the charity status and donations from the public. This tells me that if they want to keep the big money flowing in then they need to work toward a total ban in steps. Maybe they are sincere but i doubt it, a liberal is a liberal and not to be trusted.
If you look through the site they are strictly anti-gun, but understand that they can't push for an outright ban all at once. Look at the state ratings. Any state of liberal gun laws gets a low grade, but the more a state restricts the 2nd amendment the better grade they get. They also get some big money donators. I forgot where to find it, but there's a list out there with some of the donations they've received in the millions from individuals. First its "assault rifles", then hand guns, then anything that holds more than a round or two, and finally an outright ban.
In regards to the comment about not trusting the NRA by another poster, there's an organization that isn't willing to compromise. I don't know if you've heard of the JPFO? Unfortunately, while its a strong group, its not as strong as the NRA. While I don't like the NRA compromising our rights away, they do, do alot to keep them from getting taken away completely in a lot of areas
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| for the gun control people Posted: 10/15/2009 9:55:09 AM |
First its "assault rifles", then hand guns, then anything that holds more than a round or two, and finally an outright ban.
Cite? | |
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| for the gun control people Posted: 10/15/2009 11:45:00 AM | | Really don't need to cite anything as it is a known that the Brady group and most of the anti gun people know they will never abolish the 2nd amendment. If you have looked into any of the anti gun plans or manifestos they want to regulate it out of existence through piece meal legislation, fees and taxes over time. | |
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| for the gun control people Posted: 10/15/2009 12:02:40 PM |
Really don't need to cite anything as it is a known that the Brady group and most of the anti gun people know they will never abolish the 2nd amendment. If you have looked into any of the anti gun plans or manifestos they want to regulate it out of existence through piece meal legislation, fees and taxes over time.
If it is known, then why is it I have been asking for two days for a cite to show any serious movement toward a complete ban of guns, and as of yet no one has been able to do so? | |
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| for the gun control people Posted: 10/15/2009 12:34:29 PM | | Because that agenda would never get passed. They're trying to do it a little at a time. Its like erosion. It may seem like nothing is happening, but before you know it the beach (or whatever) has eroded away | |
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| for the gun control people Posted: 10/15/2009 3:22:47 PM | Cite?
Why don't you take the time to do a little reading in the reams of posting, links, and news articles that back this up. Sorry but I'm not going to do the work for you as I have made this argument many times over in many forums. Go to the United Nations home page and do a search for their stand on the limiting and bans on small arms possession. Read to transcripts from the speeches and the many online publications generated by this organization. This is where much of the push for gun bans are coming from. This is where a lot of what many post are referring to as the creeping ban on gun ownership.
Go to the Canadian Coalition for Gun Control website http://www.guncontrol.ca/ for even more great reading and a list of the major contributors to an eventual gun ban in this country. You might even want to send of a query to Wendy Cukier and ask her if she'd like to see a complete ban. She will say yes but will give you no solution to what we are going to do about illegally owned guns once law abiding people no longer have theirs.
I do not claim for one minute that I have read them all but as a very active anti C-68 and pro firearm advocate I have read much. I have been involved in gun control issues here in Canada since 1994 when I organized a public meeting between the public and government officials in the wake of the implementation of C-68. We expected 30-40 people to show up and over 200 did. We had to turn people away because of fire regulations. It was a very hot topic then and it still is today.
Two billion dollars later and no hard facts to back up it's worth, C-68 was a horribly flawed piece of legislation that did nothing to save lives or prevent gun crime. It only attacked law abiding citizen by making it harder for them to retain and acquire firearms legally and I stress legally. Google gun crime in the Halifax/Dartmouth area (The Halifax Chronicle Herald is the local paper) to see just how well it is working. Almost everyday now you hear of shootings.
I have been very active in this for 15 years now and belong to groups that are still fighting Bill C-68. Just today in a lunch room discussion, one person said "How many pieces of Canadian law passed in 1996 are still in the news today?" The present Conservative government has put serious dents in C-68 but without a majority government they can not out right rescind it.
The Liberal government has passed a resolutions in one of its conventions for the ban of all semi automatic firearms. If it gets back into power, I have no doubt that it will ban them using the power of that bill. Next will come repeating firearms, and then single shots, and then all legally owned firearms, and then only criminals will illegally, and I stress illegally, own firearms. Just as they do now. This is happening here in Canada just as the American posters predict it will happen in the U.S.
For me, as it does many other firearm owners, it boils down to this; it is my property, I use it safely, and no one should have the power to take it away from me. There are just not enough good reasons to justify it and too many examples in past history of what happens to disarmed peoples to allow it to happen again here or in the U.S.
So stick your "cite" somewhere, go do some research, and come back to the discussion and prove it isn't happening. | |
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| for the gun control people Posted: 10/15/2009 7:18:27 PM | | Like FL CO said, they got the wedge in the door in the early 90's and will keep wearing away until there are no more private citizens with guns. And it will happen, I just hope I'm dead before it does. | |
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| for the gun control people Posted: 10/15/2009 7:34:35 PM | What am supposed to get out of reading this?
That there are multiple ways you can kill someone? This isn't new info | |
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| for the gun control people Posted: 10/15/2009 7:36:47 PM |
No this is the equivalent of I don't care what you think about a country you don't live in. Well, here's the problem with that line of thinking, apart from this being and international forum. Much of what happens in the US impacts upon the rest of the world, the world-wide economic crisis had it's epicentre at Wall Street, US foreign policy affects all of us, in the Middle East particularly.
Saddam Hussain was a product of US foreign policy, as was the Taliban, so we all have a stake in what goes on in the US. | |
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| for the gun control people Posted: 10/15/2009 8:10:40 PM | The problem is, whilst you are waiting for the opportunity to defend yourselves as the government knocks your door down, people continue to die.
Anyway, as you gentlemen mentioned, I'm an outsider and can't possibly understand your love-affair with deadly weapons. I have no guns in my house and neither does anybody I know (with the exception of my two late uncles, who were both farmers).
The thing is, I see vehicles in your pictures, in the background. Vehicles are involved in many times more deaths than firearms are, yet you justify them for convenience that they provide. I justify my firearm ownership with enjoyment, practical use (snakes, whatnot), and self-defense as well as the fact that when a populace is disarmed, the balance of government is shifted unacceptably. It becomes a government over the people instead of a people who have elected a government.
So...back to cars. You seem to have rationalized them, and I have rationalized firearm ownership. Moving along. | |
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| for the gun control people Posted: 10/15/2009 8:50:09 PM | | Several people have claimed that various groups are trying to ban guns altogether, but not one of them have supplied me with a cite to show this. Until someone does, I am forced to conclude that this threat to gun ownership is either very unlikely or doesn't exist at all. | |
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| for the gun control people Posted: 10/15/2009 9:18:02 PM |
and self-defense as well as the fact that when a populace is disarmed, the balance of government is shifted unacceptably. It becomes a government over the people instead of a people who have elected a government. The problem with this argument is the government's guns will always be bigger than yours. The bigger the guns you have, the bigger the guns your elected authorities will use to deal with you. The accumulation of weapons just breeds more violence.
Your comparision with cars holds no water, you compare apples with oranges. Cars are a method of transportation, the overwhelming majority of automobile deaths are due to accidents involving their use. They are often used to save lives and make livings. Very rarely are vehicles deliberately driven at people in order to kill them. They are not specifically made to kill people.
There has been much legislation and regulation over here in order to bring the road toll down because even one death is too many. We accept regulation is necessary for the road system to work safely. We also accept driving on the road is a privilege because cars can be dangerous in the wrong hands, which is why licences are restricted. | |
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| for the gun control people Posted: 10/15/2009 9:33:47 PM | here you go msquared....this is "handgun inc's"agenda
http://www.varmintal.com/hci.htm
i found this in about 3 min of searching...i'll look for a few more.....though.....this one says everything people have been telling you.........as you can see......the plan is to start small.and work their way up.....ever heard the saying about the camels nose? | |
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| for the gun control people Posted: 10/15/2009 9:55:14 PM | here you go msquared....this is "handgun inc's"agenda
Well, let's examine this:
- It's a memo with inconsistencies, which can't be substantiated, on a gun owner's web site. -It is from 16 years ago, with separate agendas for five and fifteen years, and as far as I can tell, none of the things on the agendas have come to pass. -It is from an organization which no longer exists in the form it was then.
This is your smoking gun, that shows there is a current movement to completely ban guns? | |
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| for the gun control people Posted: 10/15/2009 10:04:25 PM | sigh...........there are none so blind as those who refuse to see.................
while its proubly pointless.heres a site that shreds the anti gunners claims
http://www.guncite.com/ | |
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