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 Author Thread: for the gun control people
 Dasein2

Joined: 7/31/2009
Msg: 276
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for the gun control people
Posted: 10/17/2009 8:51:14 AM

Although..the Anti Gun lobby will continue to say..Heller Vs D.C. is not a land mark case..when ever a case involving home defence and a gun..you can bet that decision will be brought up..especially if the boundaries of the States laws are fuzzy..as far as what constitutes the right to self defence in ones home...

also..Sotomayor..was asked if she thought (do you think you have a right to protect yourself in your own home) she dodged the question.


My question is...what do you think?..you are at home..minding your own business

and your home is broken into by armed assailants..do you have the right..to retrieve your firearm and defend your family,home and yourself..


#1 The reason Heller is not considered "landmark" has nothing to do with politics. It is because it ONLY applies to D.C. IF Heller applied to ALL the states THEN it would be a "landmark" case in the vein of Roe & Brown v. Board of Education. Most lawmakers are in agreement that the ENTIRE REASON the Court is hearing the new Illinois case is exactly so that they can expand Heller to the rest of the states and create that "landmark".

#2 Sotomayor's personal opinion is irrelevant - a judges job is to apply the law based on the facts in a given case. And even if she dissented from the upcoming Illinois case the court will most likely still have the same majority it had in Heller - so fringe gun advocates paranoia is unfounded.

#3 This is the question that Heller answered and the answer was YES. But Heller only applies to D.C. - we'll have to wait and see after the Illinois case to see what the final answer is for the rest of us. (My bet is also on Yes because of the majority I mentioned in #2).

My personal opinion, is that I believe government does have the right to REGULATE guns. For example, I would like to see the loop hole closed that allows individuals to purchase at gun shows w/o a background check.
 msquared

Joined: 8/31/2004
Msg: 277
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Posted: 10/17/2009 9:59:55 AM

I really think you are fishing for a reason where there is not one.


Say what you will, we both know that what I posted was right.
 FL CO

Joined: 12/23/2008
Msg: 278
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Posted: 10/17/2009 10:39:06 AM

My personal opinion, is that I believe government does have the right to REGULATE guns. For example, I would like to see the loop hole closed that allows individuals to purchase at gun shows w/o a background check.


Dealers have to perform a background check. The only people that don't have to do a background check is private sellers, because they don't have the means. Someone going to a show to sell off a few of their dads old guns isn't the problem. The problem is that the criminals aren't being punished like they should, and that you can't profile because its "racist".
 JWG86

Joined: 7/5/2008
Msg: 279
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Posted: 10/17/2009 10:46:38 PM
Say what you will, we both know that what I posted was right.


Ummm. No. It was a load of crap from someone who doesn't even own a firearm and therefor wouldn't have a clue about the emotions that go along with being able to actually defend yourself optimally (I say optimally, because a big guy with a knife is nasty, so it's not like a firearm is the ONLY weapon with which you can defend yourself, just the most effective) in your own home.

Owning a weapon turns you into some hunter-seeker killing machine just about as much as not owning a weapon turns you into a little girly-man who is scared of his own shadow. If a person is aggressive, they will go a'hunting that home intruder in their tighty-whiteys with a pocket-knife. If they are not, they would hole up in their room and lock the door even armed with an MP5.

Your logic is just as sound as if I said "Everyone with a sports car speeds, and people with econo-cars don't." We all know how much of a load of crap that is.

The point is, a firearm gives you options to defend yourself even if your physical prowess is lacking (100# female without training in hand-to-hand). Some people have the mentality that they will either be lucky and not harmed, or that their life/limb/mental health is worth less than that of their attacker. I suffer from neither. While I have no desire to shoot someone, I am glad that I have the option to do so if the situation demands it.



 JWG86

Joined: 7/5/2008
Msg: 280
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Posted: 10/17/2009 10:56:58 PM

Dealers have to perform a background check. The only people that don't have to do a background check is private sellers, because they don't have the means. Someone going to a show to sell off a few of their dads old guns isn't the problem. The problem is that the criminals aren't being punished like they should, and that you can't profile because its "racist".


Something like less than 1% of firearms used in crimes came from gun-shows, btw.
 Outsideofthemiddle

Joined: 10/6/2009
Msg: 281
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Posted: 10/17/2009 11:19:53 PM

Law abiding citizens of my state have been disarmed at gun-point by the national guard on their own property while in their own homes. It can happen, and I am sure it will be attempted again.


Did this happen during that hurricane Katrina?

If so I'm not suprised, but ashamed of the gaurdsmen who would take up arms against their countrymen. The government likes to use moments of like that to strip us of our rights. 9/11 resulted in the PATRIOT ACT for one.
 bigshrek

Joined: 11/15/2007
Msg: 282
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Posted: 10/31/2009 8:16:16 AM
^^^ yep, guardsmen and cops took weapons from citizens who were only interested in protecting themselves from the same scumbags who were shooting at the rescue helicopters & looting during Katrina's aftermath.

That's all good though...as our Florida firetrucks were cutting a way thru 1-10 westbound...when we found out that they were shooting at the helo's & rescue personell, we stayed in Mississippi to help there. As far as we were concerned, NO could go to Hades. Besides, the destruction in Mississippi was more than enough to keep us busy for quite awhile. Lord knows they appreciated us.

If you've ever lived in a bad neighborhood and wondered why ambulances & fire takes so long to get there...shooting at cops is one thing...shoot at rescue personnel and you get Severely Delayed Response for at least a year, if it happens twice...forget about seeing a fast response for the next decade...like, we go get a burger & a bulletproof vest before even thinking about heading that way. Then we sit OUTSIDE the neighborhood and wait for police to clear the scene before entering...and by that time the "Golden Hour" is usually half up.

Think I'm kidding?? Ride along with an FD/ambulance in a bad area in any decent-sized city. Cops go first, rescue only approach once it's SAFE...in some extreme cases, more than an hour will pass.
 bigshrek

Joined: 11/15/2007
Msg: 283
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Posted: 10/31/2009 8:40:35 AM

If, for example, you (and I mean a generic you, not necessarily any particular person in this thread) want the gun in case someone breaks into their home, that is the wrong reason. In this situation, many people with a gun will suddenly think they are Harry Callahan or Rambo, and decide to give the criminal what for. What they don't take into account is that if the criminal also has a gun, the criminal is likely better at using it. In this scenario, the things in your house aren't important. Your family and yourself are important, and you should be doing whatever you can to reduce the amount of danger to them. Unfortunately, going out to do battle with the criminals greatly increases that danger.


You MUST be Canadian. It's been my experience that most crooks adopt the "Spray & Pray" method of gunfighting. They aren't very accurate & definitly not very well trained in firearms use...even when shooting at each other. The homeowner has a DISTINCT advantage in knowing their own home...and how to defend it with a weapon they've practiced with.

Here in Florida we have what is known as the "Stand Your Ground" law...which basically means that ANYWHERE you are attacked or accosted, you may reply with deadly force...it's caused a definitive drop in our crime rates over the last ten years. We also have Concealed Carry permits, which folks take a class & are instructed on how to properly use their guns to drop a bad guy in his tracks. We also have the IDPA & IPSC, which each train people monthly at our ranges to defend themselves & their families against attackers, whether on the streets or in their homes. We have some of the most highly trained civilians in the world...many of whom are retired military and were already proficient in firearms use before looking at home defense. Finally, we have 10-20-LIFE, which punishes those who use guns during the commission of a crime with manditory minimum sentences, 10 for Having a gun during a crime, 20 for Firing it, even if it doesn't hit anyone, and LIFE if a bullet strikes anyone, even if it doesn't kill them. And we are the 3rd highest user of the Death Penalty for those who kill.

Intelligent laws & well-trained citizsens make for less crooks...one way or the other. Attrition works.

----

On another note, guns are used for MORE than just home defense, they're also used to keep predatory animals at bay.


(CNN) -- A rising Canadian folk singer was killed by coyotes this week in a national park in Nova Scotia, a park spokesman said Thursday.

Taylor Mitchell, 19, was at the beginning of the Skyline Trail in Cape Breton Highlands National Park on Tuesday afternoon when she was attacked, according to Chip Bird, the Parks Canada field unit superintendent for Cape Breton.

Bird said hikers saw the coyotes attacking Mitchell and called 911. She was airlifted to a hospital in Halifax, where she died about 12 hours later, he said.


If Canucks were allowed to carry pistols, that young lady would likely be alive & healthy. Of course, realizing that the Wilderness is WILD might have also helped, she should have been hiking in a GROUP with at least one big guy & a shilelagh ;)

Thinking nature is like Disney is often a fatal error...predators WILL kill you, given a chance, because humans are slow and easy prey...when unarmed.

 Settleforthis

Joined: 12/7/2007
Msg: 284
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Posted: 10/31/2009 8:51:51 AM
I don't really have a strong opposition or support for gun ownership. However, the whole "Guns don't kill people" mantra is nonsense. Yes, someone intent on killing another can probably find another way. However, guns allow an EASIER way to kill others. Relatively passive means (such as poisoning etc) aside, this ease means that instead of having to be physically capable of killing someone with a bludgeoning / piercing / cutting instrument, you can just stand back and pull a trigger. With a gun, you don't have to be strong enough or fast enough to physically damage the other person, which makes ANYONE capable of killing another.

If a 5 foot tall, 110 pound person is intent on doing me harm, I would MUCH rather they have a bat, or a knife, or basically any type of weapon that is not a gun. Without a gun, I may have a decent chance at either out running or disarming the assailant. With a gun, I would just be dead. Even with an evenly matched opponent, my odds of survival would be much greater if they do not have a gun.

And for those of you who think that owning or carrying a gun yourself will help......I'm sorry to break it to you, but you are not Wyatt Earp, this is not the wild west, and you are not going to outdraw someone who has a gun pointed at you.
 FL CO

Joined: 12/23/2008
Msg: 285
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Posted: 10/31/2009 11:13:45 AM
^^^Training, training, training. Its been said many times on this forum. Your statements also so your ignorance about fighting with knives, bats and the like. In an advanced knife fighting class designed for LEOs the instructor had everyone put on white tshirts and gave a young kid a a red marker. The students had to keep from getting "cut". Not one of them was able to. If someone come at you with a knife, its going to be nasty. If they use a bad, the likely hood of you getting a broken bone or being knocked out is highly likely. How much are you going to be able to fight back after having an arm broke, or a serious cut? If someone has a gun pointed at you, the object isn't trying to draw and shoot them before they can shoot you. The best thing to do is to try and disarm them. It can be done, but it takes training
 MavcomArt

Joined: 8/4/2006
Msg: 286
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Posted: 10/31/2009 12:00:58 PM

You MUST be Canadian.


Being a Canadian myself, I am not the least put out as it does not apply to myself and many other Canadian that are fighting to maintain their rights to firearms. I did want to comment on the terrible tragedy that occurred here in my home Province.

Taylor Mitchell is the first person to be killed by a wild animal in this province in my 54 years and probably the first, period. I can find no other reference to this happening in the past here in Canada. Coyotes just don't normally attack and kill people. Even in the U.S., where coyotes are larger than ours, you'd have to go back to 1981 when a three year old girl was killed in Glendale, Calif. to find another fatality by a coyote.

I am an experienced woodsman and have studied coyotes since they fist showed up here in the 80's. I, along with the Department of Natural Resources, and biologist at at a loss to explain why this happened to Ms. Mitchell. Even with what I know about their timidness around people, I have always had a healthy respect for them.

While field dressing a deer last fall, three coyotes howled and yipped at the edge of the woods 120 yards away while I worked. Although I was pretty sure they would not bother me it was the first time in my life that I did not unload my firearm after filling my tag. Every time I have been alone and unarmed in the woods since I have wished I could carry a firearm for protection, hand gun or otherwise. Since Ms. Taylor died, that feeling will be amplified.

This is a prime example for all those anti's out there that truly believe that they either could take care of themselves or it could never happen to them. This incident was about as random as it gets. I truly believe that she would be alive today if she had personal protection.
 Settleforthis

Joined: 12/7/2007
Msg: 287
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Posted: 10/31/2009 12:49:31 PM
^^ Did you notice how I listed 'RUN' as the first option in my ways of avoiding being wounded/killed when confronted by someone with a knife, bat, or other non-gun weapon? Unless the person had a weapon that could hit me at distance, my first response would be to get away from the person so that they could not reach me with it. This could not be done if the assailant has a gun. Thanks for assuming that I am overly brave/stupid, but disarming would be my last choice, regardless of the type of weapon.

As for the knife-fighting exercise, they showed you how difficult it is to avoid injury so that you would NOT get into a knife fight in the first place. Even if you 'win', then you are still almost certainly going to be seriously injured. I am well aware of this, and have no intention of attempting to disarm someone with a knife. However, assuming that I was aware that someone with a knife was intending me harm, then running may be effective. If they had a gun, running would not.

Let's say that you absolutely had no choice but to disarm the assailant. Which would you rather they have: A gun that they can shoot you with before you can even get to them and that will most likely cause serious or incapacitating bodily harm the very first use? Or a knife or a bat that they must get within a few feet to use AND causes less damage?


If someone has a gun pointed at you, the object isn't trying to draw and shoot them before they can shoot you. The best thing to do is to try and disarm them. It can be done, but it takes training


My example of the 'showdown' was also mainly in contradiction to the assertion that guns are justified because those without physical prowess can use them to protect themselves. While this is true, it works both ways. Someone who would be physically incapable of defending themselves against a stronger/faster aggressor COULD use a gun to defend themselves, but they COULD also use that same gun to victimize a stronger/faster person.

In addition, I was pointing out that having a gun would not aide you should you find yourself already faced with a drawn gun. I do not, and did not, believe that you should 'shoot them before they shoot you'. I was, in fact, ridiculing that mentality by pointing out that life is not a movie. If the assailant is dumb enough to stand next to you, and you are trained to disarm them.....then having a gun yourself would have no effect on your chances of success. If the assailant is not standing within arms reach, then you really don't have much of a chance. If you know of some secret way to disarm a gun-wielding attacker from distance (that is not from a movie), feel free to share.
 msquared

Joined: 8/31/2004
Msg: 288
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Posted: 10/31/2009 1:28:53 PM

You MUST be Canadian. It's been my experience that most crooks adopt the "Spray & Pray" method of gunfighting. They aren't very accurate & definitly not very well trained in firearms use...even when shooting at each other. The homeowner has a DISTINCT advantage in knowing their own home...and how to defend it with a weapon they've practiced with.


Yes, I am Canadian, and proud of it.

It's been my experience that many people with guns think they are skilled with them, and suffer the consequences for that false presumption when trying to defend their home against the supposedly inferior and disadvantaged crook.


On another note, guns are used for MORE than just home defense, they're also used to keep predatory animals at bay.


There aren't many predatory animals in urban North America, where you'll find the majority of pistol owners.


If Canucks were allowed to carry pistols, that young lady would likely be alive & healthy.


You do not know the circumstances about the attack, so you don't know if she would have lived if she had a pistol.

Also, it is quite shameful of those of you who are exploiting this tragedy to push your agenda on these forums.
 DaveInMableton

Joined: 6/2/2008
Msg: 289
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Posted: 10/31/2009 9:10:50 PM

There aren't many predatory animals in urban North America, where you'll find the majority of pistol owners.


There are plenty of predatory animals in all urban areas in North America. Muggers, Gang members, people that break into houses. These are all predators that prey on people. Their intended victims being allowed to have guns just means there will likely be fewer predators in the future

Many people in the some parts of the U.S. are starting to wake up to this fact and are starting to fight back against the government slowly taking away our rights, including the right to carry a gun.
 JWG86

Joined: 7/5/2008
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Posted: 10/31/2009 9:20:31 PM

There aren't many predatory animals in urban North America, where you'll find the majority of pistol owners.


While the post above mine outlines things very well with reguards to crime, yes there ARE predatory animals in urban America. As we further turn natural habitat to shopping mall, we are having more and more coyotes, etc. in urban America. However, the greatest issue comes from feral dogs/dogs let run wild. It seems every year they maul/kill some jogger, whatnot, and every year, you read where another, better prepaired jogger, shot them/fended them off with a handgun. There are plenty of animals in urban America that might need killin', and not just the 2-legged variety.
 MavcomArt

Joined: 8/4/2006
Msg: 291
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Posted: 10/31/2009 10:19:47 PM

You do not know the circumstances about the attack, so you don't know if she would have lived if she had a pistol.

Also, it is quite shameful of those of you who are exploiting this tragedy to push your agenda on these forums.


I still feel that Ms. Taylor would be alive and that is my opinion and I'm sticking to it. It is a fact that a loaded handgun and some training would have helped save her life. I have to agree that she might have still been killed. However, there would be a lot less chance of her being dead had she been armed.

I feel no same what so ever from you or anyone else for my comment. I have no agenda to promote. I stated my feeling based on personal experience. You obviously where not with me when the coyotes were present during my hunting trip. You are not me when I walk in the woods unarmed and feel vulnerable, and you certainly were not Ms. Mitchell. You'd be the one dead I wouldn't be writing this reply.

There are many predatory animals in North America and thanks to reintroduction programs their numbers are growing. Cougar attacks are common as are black bear. Wolves reintroduced in Alaska and Alberta are also becoming a concern. You obviously are not a hunter and spend zero time in woods to make a statement like that.

The prey of these animals are close to urban centers because the prey is protected by laws that prohibit their harvesting and the harvesters that honor those laws. Here's an interesting article that might shed some light on your lack of knowledge on the subject.

http://easterncougar.org/CougarNews/?p=682

Good luck in the woods .
 FL CO

Joined: 12/23/2008
Msg: 292
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Posted: 10/31/2009 10:23:13 PM

^^ Did you notice how I listed 'RUN' as the first option in my ways of avoiding being wounded/killed when confronted by someone with a knife, bat, or other non-gun weapon? Unless the person had a weapon that could hit me at distance, my first response would be to get away from the person so that they could not reach me with it. This could not be done if the assailant has a gun. Thanks for assuming that I am overly brave/stupid, but disarming would be my last choice, regardless of the type of weapon.

As for the knife-fighting exercise, they showed you how difficult it is to avoid injury so that you would NOT get into a knife fight in the first place. Even if you 'win', then you are still almost certainly going to be seriously injured. I am well aware of this, and have no intention of attempting to disarm someone with a knife. However, assuming that I was aware that someone with a knife was intending me harm, then running may be effective. If they had a gun, running would not.

Let's say that you absolutely had no choice but to disarm the assailant. Which would you rather they have: A gun that they can shoot you with before you can even get to them and that will most likely cause serious or incapacitating bodily harm the very first use? Or a knife or a bat that they must get within a few feet to use AND causes less damage?

My example of the 'showdown' was also mainly in contradiction to the assertion that guns are justified because those without physical prowess can use them to protect themselves. While this is true, it works both ways. Someone who would be physically incapable of defending themselves against a stronger/faster aggressor COULD use a gun to defend themselves, but they COULD also use that same gun to victimize a stronger/faster person.

In addition, I was pointing out that having a gun would not aide you should you find yourself already faced with a drawn gun. I do not, and did not, believe that you should 'shoot them before they shoot you'. I was, in fact, ridiculing that mentality by pointing out that life is not a movie. If the assailant is dumb enough to stand next to you, and you are trained to disarm them.....then having a gun yourself would have no effect on your chances of success. If the assailant is not standing within arms reach, then you really don't have much of a chance. If you know of some secret way to disarm a gun-wielding attacker from distance (that is not from a movie), feel free to share.


Running isn't always an option, they can still chase after you, you shouldn't have to run anyway, and what about any family and friends (or date) that you're with? Are you just going to leave them to fend for themselves? Thats pretty cowardly. As far as what I would prefer the person to have, it would honestly depend on the person. The average confrontation happens at only a few feet apart. A bat can do A LOT of damage. I personally know someone who had to have half his face reconstructed and lost an eye from one hit. Most people don't know how to use a knife for offensive/defensive purposes and while I have been trained for disarming someone with a knife as well, I don't feel as comfortable doing that as I would disarming someone with a firearm.

Your statement about someone using a firearm to victimize a stronger person seems to be putting the blame on the gun. Its nothing more than a tool. That same person can use a variety of other means to do harm to those (s)he wishes to. I also can't figure out why you don't believe in shooting the criminal before he shoots you (given the oppritunity). You're faced with deadly force. I'm not going to give the criminal a chance to try and kill me before reacting. Again, I'll say that most confrontations happen very close. If its not quite in arms reach, there's ways to close the gap while not appearing aggressive. You obviously don't have the mindset to fight back so its really pointless to go into any detail about it, but it can be done. Most criminals are cowards anyway, and don't know how to handle someone that doesn't give into what they want
 JWG86

Joined: 7/5/2008
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Posted: 10/31/2009 10:38:01 PM
This entire anti-gun attitude stems from a lack of self-confidence in one's self to properly use a firearm, the desire to consolidate power, or lack of confidence in one's fellow human being. Period. No other argument exists for being against firearm ownership.

Conversely, ownership of a firearm could also be claimed to stem from lack of confidence in one's fellow human being as well, but in this scenario the fear of one's contemporarys moral compass being "off" is also acompanied by a marked lack of under-estimation of that person's capability and hence the desire to become armed ones self.

I am confident in my own competance with a weapon, have no desire to see power consolidated among a police/government state, and am reticent to underestimate the criminal mind, as opposed to being insecure and/or fearful of my fellow man/woman and adopting a less pro-active stance towards countering any possible ill works they may have plotted, as many "anti-gunners" have done.

After cutting through the PC and smoke and mirrors, arguments against firearms can be distilled to these key points unless one wishes to talk economics or something else remote.
 Double Cabin

Joined: 11/29/2004
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Posted: 11/1/2009 11:36:12 AM
I haven't read the whole thread but I'd guess someone brought up the utterly irrelevant claims of Professor Kleck. There is a simple way to break down the efficacy of gun control. The United States has the most unfettered access to firearms in the developed world and unequivocally has the greatest gun violence problem in the developed world. Period. When that statistical reality changes get back to us, K?
 JWG86

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Posted: 11/1/2009 11:48:46 AM
I haven't read the whole thread but I'd guess someone brought up the utterly irrelevant claims of Professor Kleck. There is a simple way to break down the efficacy of gun control. The United States has the most unfettered access to firearms in the developed world and unequivocally has the greatest gun violence problem in the developed world. Period. When that statistical reality changes get back to us, K?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_countries_by_gun_ownership
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_crime
Comparing the two tables will show a few holes in your theory.

I would direct you to look at the rate of crime/firearm related murders in Columbia. America has more guns than them, so what happened to your theory? Are you going to tell me America has more gun-violence than Columbia, or are you going to tell me that Columbia is "not part of the developed world"?

Basically, what I am telling you, is that I am not going to curb my rights (or support the curbing of others) just because you have decided to tell me that inanimate objects are causing crime. Sorry. You are free to not own a weapon, and I will remain free to own them.

When the chips are down, you are going to either sit there and take what is in store for you, or call the cops and hope they drive fast. I prefer the non-helpless route. Not that it will work for me, but the odds sure are better. I mean, would I rather call someone with a gun who is 15 mintues away and from what I have seen, not nearly as proficient with it to defend myself, or reach over and grab my own, in a time of need? That's like saying you will call your brother from 15 minutes across town to come cook supper for you instead of learning to cook yourself and buying a spatula. Not nearly as serious of course, but it makes just as much sense.

Oh, and before you say "I am lucky and crime doesn't happen to me/in my area" or whatever variation, what happened to your opinion that our country was so bad and violent? Surely you aren't going to pull the whole "I feel safe" thing after telling me how horrible crime is in this country, right?
 raphael_adroit_esquire

Joined: 12/18/2006
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Posted: 11/1/2009 5:17:20 PM

If a 5 foot tall, 110 pound person is intent on doing me harm, I would MUCH rather they have a bat, or a knife, or basically any type of weapon that is not a gun. Without a gun, I may have a decent chance at either out running or disarming the assailant. With a gun, I would just be dead. Even with an evenly matched opponent, my odds of survival would be much greater if they do not have a gun.


That's interesting. A 6 foot tall, 250 lb., 5th degree black belt friend of mine has stated on numerous occassions that he would much rather face someone with a gun than someone with a knife. Even with strength and agility on your side, it is extremely difficult to disarm an assailant with a knife without getting yourself seriously messed up. As long as you are able to maneuver the barrel of the gun out of direct aim at you, it can't really do much to harm you. The blade of a knife has the potential for much greater damage at close range. Merely gaining control of a knife puts you at great risk for stab wounds, punctured arteries, and if you don't know what you're doing, even punctured vital organs.

I don't think a lot of people really realize how dangerous knives can be. If you've ever had one pulled on you, it's a sobering experience.




It's been my experience that many people with guns think they are skilled with them, and suffer the consequences for that false presumption when trying to defend their home against the supposedly inferior and disadvantaged crook.


You should spend a week here in Texas. Gun ranges are everywhere, and most of my friends that are gun owners frequent them multiple times a week. Their proficiency speaks for itself.
 FL CO

Joined: 12/23/2008
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Posted: 11/1/2009 9:52:24 PM
^^^They don't realize how dangerous a knife is. Inside of 21' someone with a knife is concidered a lethal threat. As you mentioned, when trying to disarm someone with a knife, its very likely that you will get seriously hurt. With a firearm, you can possible prevent them from even firing, or only allow them to get off one shot. This is where training comes in. Learning how to maneuver yourself and the firearm so that you can disarm them and not get shot in the process.
 JWG86

Joined: 7/5/2008
Msg: 298
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for the gun control people
Posted: 11/1/2009 10:35:04 PM
Unlike in the movies, most GSW's are not fatal occurances. Nor do they knock you back 15 feet and make you do a backflip. Nor is a shotgun going to hit everything in the room, it must be aimed. Nor is someone likely to hit someone running, 50 yards away, with their pistol aiming it sideways (or properly, for that matter, in most hands), nor is shooting something 800m distant easy (multiple cross-winds, etc. etc. etc.).

So much myth about guns and gun ownership out there spread by those who decry them, yet know absolutely nothing but what the media rams down their gaping maws.
 raphael_adroit_esquire

Joined: 12/18/2006
Msg: 299
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for the gun control people
Posted: 11/3/2009 7:33:20 AM
Evidently, former UFC heavyweight champion Bas Rutten seems to share my friend's opinion on disarming someone with a knife being considerably more dangerous than disarming someone with a gun.


Knives - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqCgBEei0o - (at 4:45)


Guns - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkDkUPZa4iE - (at 4:05)
 MavcomArt

Joined: 8/4/2006
Msg: 300
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for the gun control people
Posted: 11/4/2009 5:51:05 PM
Hot off the press:

"OTTAWA –A long-running effort by the Conservatives to kill the long-gun registry has passed an important hurdle in the House of Commons, with a majority voting for the first time in 14 years to study a bill to repeal it.

MPs voted 164-137 to give "second reading" — or "approval-in-principle" - to a private member's bill sponsored by MP Candice Hoeppner (Portage-Lisgar) that calls for the repeal of legal requirements to register long-barrelled rifles and shotguns."

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/720988--house-takes-step-toward-repeal-of-gun-registry?bn=1

The fight to end the biggest waste of tax payer dollars in Canadian history is over. Now maybe they'll have some money for better policing and social programs to help prevent gun crimes.
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