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| for the gun control people
Posted: 6/12/2008 12:28:12 PM | i love the assumption that every country in the world would get weapons if they were to have weapons. canada doesn't have a gun problem, yet its criminals get their guns from the us? isn't that a problem? and they get them from the us because its logically the place to get guns, considering they're legal here, and we're kinda right under you guys. its not our fault that your borders still suck and you can't keep the guns off your own streets. do school shootings happen in in other countries? yes.
Have you ever heard of school kids shooting each other down in any other country? This is the disgrace of your society, and perfectly preventable by banning guns.
March 13, 1996
Dunblane, Scotland
16 children and one teacher killed at Dunblane Primary School by Thomas Hamilton, who then killed himself. 10 others wounded in attack.
March 1997
Sanaa, Yemen
Eight people (six students and two others) at two schools killed by Mohammad Ahman al-Naziri.
April 28, 1999
Taber, Alberta, Canada
Six students injured at Heritage High School by Thomas Solomon, 15, who was reportedly depressed after breaking up with his girlfriend.
Dec. 7, 1999
Veghel, Netherlands
Six students injured at Heritage High School by Thomas Solomon, 15, who was reportedly depressed after breaking up with his girlfriend.
March 2000
Branneburg, Germany
One teacher killed by a 15-year-old student, who then shot himself. The shooter has been in a coma ever since.
April 26, 2002
Erfurt, Germany
13 teachers, two students, and one policeman killed, ten wounded by Robert Steinhaeuser, 19, at the Johann Gutenberg secondary school. Steinhaeuser then killed himself.
April 29, 2002
Vlasenica, Bosnia-Herzegovina
One teacher killed, one wounded by Dragoslav Petkovic, 17, who then killed himself.
October 28, 2002
Tucson, Ariz.
Robert S. Flores Jr., 41, a student at the nursing school at the University of Arizona, shot and killed three female professors and then himself.
Sept. 28, 2004
Carmen de Patagones, Argentina
Jeff Weise, 16, killed grandfather and companion, then arrived at school where he killed a teacher, a security guard, 5 students, and finally himself, leaving a total of 10 dead.
Sept. 13, 2006
Montreal, Canada
Kimveer Gill, 25, opened fire with a semiautomatic weapon at Dawson College. Anastasia De Sousa, 18, died and more than a dozen students and faculty were wounded before Gill killed himself.
Nov. 7, 2007
Tuusula, Finland
An 18-year-old student in southern Finland shot and killed five boys, two girls, and the female principal at Jokela High School. At least 10 others were injured. The gunman shot himself and died from his wounds in the hospital.
and yes, canada is also in there. don't tell me that other countries don't have the problems that this country does. you're just making up stories to further your argument, and its getting rediculous. have you ever left your country? lol, you act like you believe the american liberal media or something. trust me, the liberals are just good at spin, but the internet uncovers their lies. i've stated nothing but facts, and you've stated nothing but fiction and assumption. you think its going to take a while to take the guns off the streets if they were made illegal.... i say that if the guns aren't coming from one place, they'll come from another. the reason why so many illegal weapons come from "straw purchases" in our own country is merely because its the most logical place to get firearms. that doesn't mean that the criminals won't find otherways to get the guns, it just means that as of right now, they don't need to. just like canadian criminals get their guns from the us. they'll get them from other places if they can't from here, don't worry.
oh yeah, and about other countries not getting illegal weapons.... oh my god. what happened when the soviet union collapsed after the cold war? they had so many fucking guns they were doing air drops with them. i know this because my dad lived in cyprus at the time, and the turkish invaded, and they were giving them to the greeks, because they had no use for them. hell, they were even shipping TANKS for FREE. you want to talk about europe? there you go. russia. giving guns away. it happens. | |
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| for the gun control people
Posted: 6/12/2008 3:18:35 PM | The point I had hoped to express,and apparently did a poor job of, is that society as a whole is better off when it's citizens are allowed to exercise their right to self defense, and the best self defense is one you never need.
You didn't do a poor job at expressing yourself at all. I fully agree with you that citizens should be allowed to protect themselves. The only 2 problems that I see are these:
1. People are given the impression that the BEST option for self defense is firearms. This is not necessarily true even thought it is usually perceived as fact. There are many disadvantages regarding firearm defense if someone isn't properly trained (which the average person isn't).
2. We need to try all that we can to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, psychopaths, minors, and others. We are not even coming close to doing a sufficient job here. Yes it may add a little inconvenience and paperwork for those of us who are legal gun carrying citizens. But what is a little inconvenience when it comes to making our country more safe? Isn't that the reason that we law abiding citizens buy the guns in the first place? For extra security?
The more easy it is for us to buy a gun, the more easy it is for criminals to get them too. | |
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| for the gun control people
Posted: 6/13/2008 6:23:48 AM | Originally, all I had was my duty revolver (.357) which I replaced with a 9mm in the early 90's along with a single-shot shotgun (12 gauge) & a .22 rifle for hunting. After spending a little time with the Army I decided to join SASS (Cowboy Shooting) and got a brace of revolvers, a carbine, and a double-barrelled shotgun. After a few years of shooting I then purchased a myriad assortment of weapons from pawn shops...lots of High-Capacity stuff just so it'd never see the light of day in a druggie's hands again. Resold a bunch to RESPONSIBLE people, like cops, firefighters & EMT's after 9/11...might as well have the Right people armed with Tec-9's, eh? Plus I really don't need THAT many guns...I'm down to just enough to fit in the safe...lol
Shooting sports are very enjoyable, especially the SASS & IDPA. Most of us get fifty times the amount of range time the average cop gets (average cop spends about two weeks a year at a range)...which is kinda sad. I can empty two single-action six-guns faster & more accurately than most cops can empty a Glock. Which leads to the Big Point...PROPERLY TRAINED GUN OWNING CIVILIANS ARE MORE CAPABLE OF DEFENSE THAN COPS. Want proof?? Just go to an IDPA match and watch local cops get outshot time & time again by CIVILIANS. I'll also point out that a LOT of SASS, IDPA, IPSC members are former & current military, retired cops, firefighters...generally responsible people. We're the ones who buy the big concrete-filled gun safes and stick them in our closets behind a brand-new steel door with a V-lock. We are the ones who will step forward into the breech when no one else will. We are the Joe Horns. And we are YOUR best final line of defense when the squishy hits the fan. there is no country in the world that wants to try to invade the US because we citizens are almost as well-armed (some better, hehehe) as our military...although those dang Mexicans are getting annoying on the invading part...we've got enough landscapers & fruitpickers now, thankyouverymuch. | |
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Posted: 6/14/2008 8:12:08 AM |
PROPERLY TRAINED GUN OWNING CIVILIANS ARE MORE CAPABLE OF DEFENSE THAN COPS.
I almost agree with that sentence. It should read "Properly trained gun owning civilians are more capable of defense than an AVERAGE cop". Because their are some officers who are like you and to take pleasure in range shooting outside of their job. In fact, there are a few cops in my home town who have formed a competitive shooting team.
It's like I said before, I am not worried about responsible people having guns. It's the irresponsible people that I am worried about. And the only way to help prevent the irresponsible people from getting them is to throw up a little more red tape. The responsible, legal people will still be able to get them, so they have nothing to worry about. But the irresponsible people will have a harder time. And that's never bad. | |
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| for the gun control people
Posted: 6/14/2008 8:05:16 PM | 10-20-life...that's Florida's law...it's working nicely. Of course, it's assisted by the CCW program that is in force.
The irresponsible people have LESS of a hard time getting a weapon than a civilian who has no record. Reason for this is that the crook can trade/buy a stolen/passed around weapon cheaply...and there's no background check in the 'hood...just ask Dylan Klebold (columbine)...he never filled out firearms paperwork. Wonder what idiot sold him the Tec-9?
The paperwork and background check for firearms currently is quite sufficient...Even at Florida Gun Shows now if they don't have a CCW or FFL a seller must place the gun with a local dealer for the Waiting Period.
If all gun owners would use safes, there would be less stolen ones floating around...and I mean the GOOD safes, not the cheezy cheap aluminum ones. Compund that with a dog & an alarm system...not to mention a booby trap or two...hehehe...and crooks won't be touching your weapons anytime soon 
The biggest problem that police officers currently face is the lack of shooting ranges to go to. Where I live one almost closed down due to noise complaints, but then the local LE's and the public raised heck...now the folks offended by the noise are selling their property and gun owners are buying it...(of course, any idiot that moves next door to a gun range knew what he was getting into in the first place...)...which keeps the ONLY range in the county open for biz. Which is good because I'd have just gone to the backside of a wooded lot for practice if it had closed. They think they had noise problems before?? HAH! | |
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Posted: 6/15/2008 6:04:44 AM |
The irresponsible people have LESS of a hard time getting a weapon than a civilian who has no record. Reason for this is that the crook can trade/buy a stolen/passed around weapon cheaply...and there's no background check in the 'hood...just ask Dylan Klebold (columbine)...he never filled out firearms paperwork. Wonder what idiot sold him the Tec-9?
That's just it. Background checks are sufficient only if you make everyone go through them. But I have a hard time considering a background check sufficient when you can get around them so easily. If you will notice in one of my early suggestion for gun control, I think we should make it mandatory for all firearm transactions to be overseen by a licensed dealer. If no licensed dealer is present, then it becomes an illegal transaction. By doing this, yes, responsible people will have more paperwork to do when buying from a friend or another individual. But it will also help prevent guns from entering the hands of criminals. | |
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Posted: 6/15/2008 6:23:07 AM | CROOKS AREN'T GONNA GO TO A DEALER! They go to OTHER CROOKS!
You people have a logic that's just completely unreal. What on earth makes you think a crook would actually do the Legitimate Thing?? That's what makes them CROOKS. DUH!
B'sides, some concerned citizens are already buying guns from bad guys...just to get them off the streets. I trade 'em in on nice new toys for me to play with :) A .38, a 9mm, and a .45 got me a nice new rabbit-eared 12 ga Shotgun at a local gun shop. Why BUY new cowboy action guns when you can just trade for 'em & get bad guy's guns offa the street??  | |
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| for the gun control people
Posted: 6/15/2008 6:24:03 AM | Rules for a Gunfight
Anonymous
1. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns.
2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap - life is expensive.
3. Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.
4. If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough or using cover correctly.
5. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal movement are preferred.)
6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.
7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.
8. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running.
9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME. "All skill is in vain when an Angel blows the powder from the flintlock of your musket."
10. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.
11. Always cheat, always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.
12. Have a plan.
13. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work.
14. Use cover or concealment as much as possible.
15. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.
16. Don't drop your guard.
17. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees.
18. Watch their hands. Hands kill. (In God we trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them.)
19. Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.
20. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.
21. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
22. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.
23. Your number one option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.
24. Do not attend a gun fight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with anything smaller than "4".
25. You can't miss fast enough to win | |
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| for the gun control people
Posted: 6/15/2008 1:00:13 PM | So if Canadian criminals could get their guns in the US, as easily as the US criminals, then the crime rate involving guns would be the same. The Canadians enjoy a lifestyle and earning potential similar to those of US denizens. And then what could possibly stop them from getting as many as they wanted? Well, the border crossing. They have much fewer guns circulating in criminal circles in Canada than in America.
You're obviously from T'ronta. Indian reserves have no border guards and encourage this smuggling. In other parts of the country the trucks just drive across on a back road or a trail between fields, even at border stations that are closed for the night.
The Mennonite mafia from Mexico is very big in southern Manitoba and Alberta and deals in everything including drugs and smuggling people into the States or into Canada.
The main reason we have percievably less violent crime in Canada is that most of the citizens would sooner lay down and be walked on than stand up for themselves. That is why we have no freedom left in this country we just go through life in a daze only thinking about how to be entertained. Unfortunatly this disease is invading the States and it is the only country left that allows true freedom, but not once the liberals take over. | |
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Posted: 6/15/2008 9:20:46 PM | The people of Canada have a completely different lifestyle than those in the US...and with the tendancy of Canadians to be nice & polite, few are going to lean towards crime anyway...when you add in that Canada has a far smaller population of blacks & mexicans, you quickly realize that there are just plain FEWER CRIMINALS and fewer likely to become criminals.
Add in that's it's just too damned cold for 8 months of the year to BE a bad guy...and there you are. | |
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Posted: 6/15/2008 10:43:53 PM | and with the tendancy of Canadians to be nice & polite, few are going to lean towards crime anyway
You've never been to Winnipeg if you see Canadians as nice or polite. I find yanks to be far more considerate and gracious than Canadians. Shoot we even teach contempt for the US in school, now that's friendly. | |
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| for the gun control people
Posted: 6/16/2008 1:01:23 AM | | Canadas gun laws need updating since we are no longer in the 1800's. One big problem I have with our gun laws ins the classing of rifles an ar-15 as well as a lot of other long arms should be non restricted. | |
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| for the gun control people
Posted: 6/16/2008 3:24:22 PM | You people have a logic that's just completely unreal. What on earth makes you think a crook would actually do the Legitimate Thing?? That's what makes them CROOKS. DUH!
I agree with that logic 100%. Criminals look for ways to get around the system. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't at least TRY to make it harder for them.
Here is an example of what I am talking about: If a criminal buys a gun from a private seller, current laws tell us that no background check needs to be attained. Because of this, the private seller has no reason to not sell him the gun. As far as he is concerned, there are little if any repercussions if the gun is used in a crime. He can simply use the excuse that he didn't know that the buyer was a criminal.
Now, let's look at scenario number 2. If it is made mandatory for a licensed dealer to be at each firearm transaction, then you now have a responsible party member (other than the criminal buyer) with something to lose. At this point there would be a background check which would make it much more difficult for the criminal to get the gun. And if the buyer and seller decided to not abide by the law and continue with a transaction without the presence of a licensed dealer, then both parties can and will be held responsible. At this point in time, the seller can no longer use the excuse "I didn't know he was a criminal".
To say that gun control shouldn't be established since criminals aren't going to abide by it is like saying, Theft shouldn't be illegal since thieves are criminals and are therefore going to do it whether it's legal or not.
You people have a logic that's just completely unreal.
By leaving gaping holes and easily accessible bypasses around the law, you might as well be handing criminals guns.
Most gun owners say that they have guns for protection. But did you ever stop to think that if we would at least TRY to make it more difficult for the criminals to get the guns, that you may not NEED that protection so much? If you ask me, that is unrealistic logic.
You might as well just throw your hand in the air and say "Well, since they are going to try to get them anyway, we might as well let them have them." | |
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Posted: 6/16/2008 4:37:07 PM | rswindol that already takes place in most states. Such as california in order to sell a privately owned firearm someone with a federal firearms license has to hold the gun and the party purchasing it has to go through the ten day wait and background check. But as you know in california the criminals are still getting the guns. Now other states may have different laws with different results. Now you have to balance a states right to govern itself versus the federal governments wish to have uniformity across the board. But what some see as trying to streamline the laws for public safety others see the federal goverment trying to do away with a states right at self government. The federal government uses public safety for a varity of reasons but they all seem to chip away at state soverinty (sp?) and individual rights. Not too long ago any federal website you visited placed a tracking cookie on your computor and then bang now uncle sam knows what you view and do at all times. Facial recognition cameras on street corners. Randomized wire taps. While all of this may seem like conspiracy theory garbage this is stuff that is or has happened. The wire taps happened after sept 11 then they legalised it with the patriot act. they continued to do it on random people until there was a stink made about it on the news. The cookies where removed after a stink was made on the news. Then you had the FBI's computor called CARNIVOR which could snatch any email sent without your knowing about it and they could set it for key phrases. A huge stink was made about that one in time magazine.
The federal government is already chipping away at our rights. Why make it any easier for them under the pretense of making things safer. When its not going to do anything but hinder an honest person, and do nothing to deter a criminal. The laws in place are more then adequate they just need to be enforced. One of the things that you should be concerned about is ask your self this "Why did the federal government mandate background checks, waiting periods, diffenitions of prohibited persons, and the federal firearms dealer licensing requirements. But then fail to fund the system or streamline it so that the systems can communicate from state to state..?" Isnt that setting up the system for failure? Why would you want the system to fail? Unless you wanted there to be such a public outcry that eventually people would want all guns banned including those purchased legally.
Anyone hear the fable of the boiling frog? If you put a frog in boiling water it will just hop out because its too hot. But if you put the frog in tepid water then slowly raise the temperature it will stay in the pot until it boils to death. The moral of the story is that people are alot like that. If you take a man or womans rights away in one fell swoop you will have a revolution on your hands. But if you slowly whittle their rights away slowly and over time, throw in words like national security, public safety, and greater good, people will more then likely follow what is told to them like sheep.
Once you start letting the government take your rights away how do you make them stop? | |
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| for the gun control people
Posted: 6/17/2008 9:23:36 AM | I hate to say it, but I don't think that everyone should be able to OWN an AR-15. For that matter one SHOULD be required to have at least a CCW or create a special weapons license to own anything that operates with a magazine that contains more than 10 rounds.
I also believe that all legitimate gun sales should be done through a dealer or Curio & Relic licensees for Antique weapons. C&R is FEDERAL and quite thorough.
I DO NOT believe that High-Capacity Weapons should be banned. There are legitimate uses...they're also few & far between.
I have no problem with EVERY pistol owner being required to have some form of license. For a pistol...one should be able to recieve a Temporary Permit after passing a background check, for immediate protection, and maintain the current Brady Bill waiting period and require that they complete the CCW course or come up with a Defensive Pistol Course & License with regular class requirements for non-LE/military. Keep it state by state with national requirement.
For High-capacity weapons (pistol or rifle) a CCW at the MINIMUM. The requirements for CCW in Florida are more than sufficient to be a good national standard. Mayhaps create a High-Capacity license for rifles that does not include the ability to carry concealed, just to be able to own/use a high-capacity rifle like the AR-15, AK-47, etc...
For single-shot or lever-action rifles and single/double shotguns, a standard background check & a Brady Bill waiting period should be more than sufficient. Rarely does anyone need a hunting gun Immediately.
For all blackpowder weapons, Same as the single-shot restrictions. Currently in the US there are NO restrictions on who can purchase a blackpowder muzzleloader other than age.
of course, if we could actually TRUST our gov't to actually SECURE our borders...we MIGHT be able to trust them with that sort of legislation...but so far, our southern border is as pourous as a SPONGE...and there is absolutely NO reason to even bother with tighter restrictions on guns or drugs until the border problems are resolved. WHY?? Because they won't WORK until it's resolved, dork!
I wanna be able to shoot those danged druggies as fast as they run across the border...but even that is illegal  Legalize regular citizens to patrol our borders with lethal force and you won't HAVE a border problem. You will have a cemetary problem... One pissed-off redneck per mile and the border will become very, very quiet, except for the occasional gunshot. | |
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Posted: 6/17/2008 9:48:42 AM | ^^^^^^^ everything you say makes perfect sense until your last paragraph. Statements like that are what gives the gun control people justification in thier beliefs your freakin killing me. It is not the duty of regular citizens to patrol the border especially with lethal force. I dont need help from anyone who acts like an A.B.
LETHAL FORCE: That force which a prudent and reasonible person would believe would cause death or serious bodily harm.
Justification of Leathal Force:
1. In Self defense or the defense of another person.
2. To prevent the rape of your self or another peron.
3.To prevent a felons escape (cavet the felon must have been convicted of a act of a sever nature such as murder, assualt with a deadly weapon, child molestation, rape, etc.) whos escape from custody poses an imminent(sp?) threat to the community.
Those three rules are what most states agree is the only time that lethal force can be used. Note how defense of property is no where up there. The rule for most states is "Life before property" The only state or organization I know of that authorizes lethal force when used to defend property is the Military and that is for the protection of Places or objects deemed to be vital to national Security.
Anyone who activly wishes that they can shoot someone, shouldnt have a gun. | |
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Posted: 6/17/2008 4:04:10 PM | rswindol that already takes place in most states. Such as california in order to sell a privately owned firearm someone with a federal firearms license has to hold the gun and the party purchasing it has to go through the ten day wait and background check.
While it may be a law in some states, I have only lived in one state that had this law, and that was Massachusetts. But even in these states, the law is not enforced. What is the point of having a law such as this if it isn't going to be enforced?
Another form of gun control that I firmly believe should be well implemented is education of the laws. As I stated in another thread, I have an aunt who is married to a felon. He has been out of jail for at least 10 years now. About 5 years ago, she bought him 2 high powered rifles for Christmas. She did not realize that she was breaking the law by doing so. Education is prevention, and prevention is often the best defense.
BIGSHREK
I too think those are good ideas, if well implemented and enforced. These ideas that you guys are coming up with are great gun control policies that would really help. I don't see why gun owners are so against gun control. It's not all about banning firearms, but about controlling them. Let's focus on making it harder for criminals to obtain guns, and make it easier for everyone else to sleep at night. | |
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Posted: 6/17/2008 4:56:35 PM | If some big guy with no pants a stiffy and a 7inch bucher knife was breaking into your house at 2am and started creeping up the stairs towards your kids bedroom what would you prefer?
A gun in your hand or a 911 operator on the phone? | |
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Posted: 6/17/2008 7:14:51 PM | If some big guy with no pants a stiffy and a 7inch bucher knife was breaking into your house at 2am and started creeping up the stairs towards your kids bedroom what would you prefer?
A gun in your hand or a 911 operator on the phone?
Now let's say that the big boner guy wasn't carrying a butcher knife, but instead, a semi automatic asault rifle that your "gun control is bad" attitude provided him with.
Gun control is not about taking the gun out of your hand. It's about taking the gun out of the criminal's hand. It keeps him carrying a knife while you're holding the gun. What's bad about that? | |
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Posted: 6/18/2008 8:21:44 AM | Rswindol, because Gun Control is USELESS until we sort out our border, NONE of what I posted above for GC laws would do a dang thing. Crooks will ALWAYS be able to get guns EASIER than Citizens can LEGALLY. They DON'T FOLLOW THE RULES!
Until the US border problems are resolved, passing gun control laws does NOTHING but help the crooks find more disarmed victims. When are you liberals going to realize that? So far the BEST laws have been Florida's Laws...they focus on the Criminals, not the Citizens.
Anyone that comes into my house with evil intent would get filled with lead...Florida has the Castle Doctrine as Law...it doesn't really matter what they were armed with. Of course, them actually GETTING into the house would be the hard part...concrete & steel construction, burgler bars, an alarm, and a pair of Shutzhund-trained working dogs make it difficult at best for anyone to get in...after that, it's a speed match between me & my girlfriend as to who shoots them first. We're both ex-military so it's even odds. :laugh: The sign in my front yard says "DISPROPORTIONATE RESPONSE TO CRIMINAL ACTIVITY". It gets the point across...of course, so does the 6-foot fence topped with concertina wire.
Few people take the time to build their homes properly, though...kind of sad. Not only could they be burglar-safe, they'd be Cat-5 hurricane safe. | |
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Posted: 6/18/2008 8:29:26 AM |
Now let's say that the big boner guy wasn't carrying a butcher knife, but instead, a semi automatic asault rifle that your "gun control is bad" attitude provided him with.
Gun control is not about taking the gun out of your hand. It's about taking the gun out of the criminal's hand. It keeps him carrying a knife while you're holding the gun. What's bad about that?
Well..... gun control just doesnt work. Most criminals buy their guns off the street not out of the gun store. Gun control will just affect hunters, target shooters, olympic skeet shooters, farmers........ In my country as part of "gun control" our goverment wants to ban handguns from being sold in the gun stores. As a way of cutting down on crime. But the statistics show that the criminals in our country buy their guns off people in the US not from gun stores. sometimes in exchange for weed. | |
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Posted: 6/19/2008 4:38:32 AM |
Well..... gun control just doesnt work. Most criminals buy their guns off the street not out of the gun store.
Gun control doesn't work because so many people like on this thread don't want it to work. It's it working fairly well in too many other countries to say that it doesn't work.
I agree that most criminals buy their guns off the streets. But most criminals also buy their drugs off the streets too. If out law enforcement agencies can set up busts for drugs, then why not guns?
Another reason criminals can so easily buy their guns off the streets is because the penalties for selling guns on the streets are so minute. Plus the fact that there is a great chance you will not get caught. These are two issues that gun control needs to address. Stiffer punishment, and heavier enforcement are what is needed. | |
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Posted: 6/19/2008 6:41:57 AM | Rswindol, have you LOST your mind?? In What counties does gun control actually work?? The UK and their former properties ALL have high violent crime rates. The only major country Interpol reports as having lowered violent crime rate for the last ten years is Switzerland (Which requires all of its male citizens to serve in the Armed Forces and maintain arms in their homes) which is also cold as hades (Canada).
Hint: It's the BORDER Problem!! You can't control SQUAT until you fix the LEAKS!!
Law Enforcement confiscates guns that are on/near people when they arrest them. Interpol and the US both actively seek out criminal gun sales and activities such as Importing...that's what the ATF is for...remember Waco?? Many Police/Sheriff's Dept's also use Gun Buy-Backs and exchange Walmart Cards for guns...
Penalties for selling stolen guns are minute?? What kind of crack are you on, anyway?
US prisons are overcrowded and the LE are underfunded and undermanned...if you can figure out where you can get funding for another 10,000 cops without raising taxes and you might be on to something. Oh, Wait, I KNOW where we can get the funding!! Close every military base outside the US and bring home all our war-fighting troops and put them to work on our BORDERS!!! Solve two problems with one blow!! Terrorists can't blow stuff up if they can't GET IN!! | |
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Posted: 6/19/2008 3:36:08 PM |
Penalties for selling stolen guns are minute?? What kind of crack are you on, anyway?
Gun Control Apologist Rule #1: When trying to prove a point in retaliation of an opposing thought, put words into the opponents mouth.
When did I ever say that penalties for selling stolen guns are minute?
Hint: It's the BORDER Problem!! You can't control SQUAT until you fix the LEAKS!!
You obviously live in a state with immigration problems. But not all states have these problems, and many of those states still have gun control issues. So while Border problems might amplify gun control issues, I can hardly consider it the primary source of the problem.
Canada for one. The only major country Interpol reports as having lowered violent crime rate for the last ten years is Switzerland It stands to reason that almost all major countries have escalating violent crime rates since over the past ten years since the population is growing. With more people comes more violent crimes. Simple as that. But that doesn't mean that we have to accept those numbers and do nothing about it. That's where gun control comes in. | |
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