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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 7:25:02 AM |
Is it me or is it plain odd so many women list independent as one of their traits? I mean, isn’t independent the opposite of being dependent? Isn’t this a dating site to meet people where we think depending on each other to traverse this journey called life is a plus?
So what gives? Is it one of this fictitious walls we all know about where someone is seeking something they never had, meaning they list what they want but they’ve never had it? Like someone that says respect is so important, I’ve learned that to be a given but when someone puts it in their profile as a requisite it almost always means the last relationship lacked it. Now that last statement I can’t prove scientifically but it has borne itself out time and again.
So what gives with listing independent? What are you really saying?
So, you're saying that if someone says they're independent, they must not want to date? Can't someone be independent, yet want to date someone? I would guess that's why they're here. | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 7:52:36 AM |
i put myself first, not a man.
If a man said that to me, I would NOT date him. I am only interested in being with people who are willing to share their lives.
well, i am 100% independant.
I have yet to meet someone who is 100% independent.
and since when did being independant become a bad thing?
IMO, it becomes a bad thing when people say things like "I put myself first, not a woman/man" | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 8:22:52 AM |
Truly independent people speak for themselves and need no one to speak for them.
Some independent people are more gifted with the ability to express themselves in words than others. Also, independence doesn't negate like-minds and shared opinions and thoughts.
By the way.... I have NEVER made any claim about my 'independence'. I have no need to make such a silly claim.
Of course you have no need to make such a claim, but not because you are self-reliant and take personal responsibility for yourself, but because you are a man.
Men are expected to be independent. Men were/are the breadwinners; men were/are the decision makers in the family; men did/do not bow to a woman and take orders from her. A man who has to tell others that he is independent would be perceived as weak.
A man's "dependence" would have been (and still is, in some instances) his "need" to have a woman sew a button on his shirt or bleach his underwear.
A woman's need was much greater: she needed a man to support her while she stayed home and raised the kids. He protected her from the big, bad world.
Remember Scarlett O'Hara batting her eyes? She took care of herself, eventually, but she never proclaimed her independence--she had to go about it underhandedly because of the era. Today, Scarlett would be wearing a tailored skirt and blazer and would be a CEO of a big company.
It's changed, of course, but women still feel the "need" to proclaim their independence on POF because, in reality, it is still a relatively new thing.
If you think that SOME men don't want independent women, peruse other POF forums where men bitterly complain about how the women's movement have tainted the female sex. Ask a man who has a submissive Asian wife why he chose her over an American woman. In those same forums, you will find women likewise complaining that the women's movement ruined it for them--they MUST go out and work instead of staying home.
No one MUST do anything--and I can't figure out why those men who want a dependent woman can't hook up with the complaining women in those forums.
Maybe those women aren't pretty enough. (Evil grin.) | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 8:57:49 AM | | I'm not independent. I enjoy time alone and making my own decisions but I need other people on a daily basis. I find people who say they don't need anyone to be very cold. I do need people. I need passion, love, conversation, friendship. | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 9:08:05 AM | > (OP) So what gives with listing independent? What are you really saying?
Since it's so fashionable these days for women to be "independent" (and to be all vocal about it), all it means is that they're fashion-conscious and following the lead of the fashion-setters along with the rest of the herd. | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 9:42:57 AM |
Since it's so fashionable these days for women to be "independent" (and to be all vocal about it), all it means is that they're fashion-conscious and following the lead of the fashion-setters along with the rest of the herd.
Although it seems to negate everything I have written in this forum, I tend to agree with that.
People who truly "are" something don't feel the need (that word again) to trumpet it. I see it with people who put on their profiles that they are "writers." Why announce it? Why not demonstrate it? People say they are "attractive," but shouldn't a picture show that? They announce their intelligence, but again, that should be apparent in the way that they express themselves.
I cringe when someone tells me that he/she "thinks outside the box." That has become such a cliche that I automatically put that person in a box.
I think women who announce their independence do it for a couple of reasons, one is that they want men to know what to expect. Another is that they haven't always been independent, so they still reassure themselves that they are. (I was monetarily dependent on my ex for 25 years; it still slightly amazes me that I support myself.)
Men and women both jump on bandwagons: women say they are independent--men say they are "sensitive."
Another cliche--the proof is in the pudding.
When I speak of my independence, it doesn't mean that I don't want a man, it means that I can support myself financially and emotionally--if I can't do something for myself, I can pay someone to do it for me.
I like men--why would I not desire their company? If I didn't, I wouldn't be on POF. | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 10:15:06 AM |
So what gives with listing independent? What are you really saying?
Oh..... you have stirred up quite the hornets nest haven't you baby? I think you are enjoying this!
Men do not describe themselves as "independent" that is true, but take a look at how many forums there are accusing women of only being interested in wealthy men, who drive nice cars and live in fancy homes and are in a position to make their lives easier. This is why honest women feel the need to describe ourselves as independent. Could we use other adjectives, yes but it seemed to suffice until now. | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 10:39:01 AM | ItsMargo...
i put myself first, not a man.
If a man said that to me, I would NOT date him. I am only interested in being with people who are willing to share their lives
ok allow me to clarify since you took it out of proportion. if my man is sick, then yes, i am most definitely there for him and i am willing to share my life...just need to be clear that i will not do what women have done for centuries...put a man's needs, dreams and desires ahead of their own while they fall to the wayside, staying quiet and becoming unhappy . and there is nothing wrong with that. i am a human being as well.
well, i am 100% independant.
I have yet to meet someone who is 100% independent.
and since when did being independant become a bad thing?
IMO, it becomes a bad thing when people say things like "I put myself first, not a woman/man"
well then, it is apparent that you are not, nor ever have been independant if you believe that. my bills are paid by me and no one else. i paid for my education, not my parents, grandparents or student loans. i bought my car and make ALL the payments needed to keep it on the road. i work full time and do not rely on someone else to supplement my income. if my finances become a little overwhelming, i get a second part time job to cover it...i don't borrow money or charge it. i provide the roof over my head. it wasn't given to me, no one helped me. if i have plans with friends or if i just feel like kicking back at home with a book, i WILL NOT change plans for a man because it is what he wants. i have EARNED, everything i have with hard work and determination and NO ONE will take that away from me...nor should i be shamed for it or have to justify it to ANYONE because they are jealous or intimidated by it.
as i put in my profile...
i love my life because everything i have was EARNED with hard work. i don't depend on anyone to make me happy (except myself!), much less for anything else. if i have a special someone, they enhance my life, they don't make or break it.
in order to have a successful relationship with anyone, you need to be happy with yourself, and not seek to find someone who will look after you in any way, whether it be financially or emotionally...because someday, for whatever reason, it could all be gone and you'll be left to your own devices again. | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 12:02:33 PM |
well then, it is apparent that you are not, nor ever have been independant if you believe that.
au contraire. Own my own house, car, have career. check. Oh, and yes, all paid for by me. Let's see... pay my way, keep my kid in hockey skates. check. Yep, have even had that other "right of passage"... having to pay spousal support and hand over rather significant bucks (including a cottage I bought, not that it matters) when my relationship ended.
Yep, by any measure, I am financially self-sufficient (independent if you prefer) and always have been. oops, my folks paid for my uni education. That's ok... I'll pay it forward with my own daughter.
if i have plans with friends or if i just feel like kicking back at home with a book, i WILL NOT change plans for a man because it is what he wants.
Well, I've planned to stay home and changed my mind when a friend or SO calls and suggests we do something... or if I'm not into it, I'll decline with thanks for thinking of me and suggest a different day/time/whatever. Isn't that just being flexible? Can't say I've ever said "I WILL NOT".
As a matter of fact, my way of being in the world is to try to say yes more often than no. "Yes" brings new adventures and possibilities in my life. Can't take credit for that lesson, my daughter taught me that when she was about 3 years old... if you asked her if she wanted something or to do something, she'd say yes and try it on even if she didn't know/understand what it was. I thought that was a pretty amazing way to live life.
i have EARNED, everything i have with hard work and determination and NO ONE will take that away from me...nor should i be shamed for it or have to justify it to ANYONE because they are jealous or intimidated by it.
How can someone take something away from you? You've done it, earned it... you have it. Why so defensive about it?
Look, you can - obviously - live your life according to what works for you. But maybe, just maybe, what people are reacting to isn't what you have but how defended and self-protected you are? I don't know you and I sure am only an expert about my own life. It's just a thought, maybe worth investing :30 seconds of your life to reflect on it.
i love my life because everything i have was EARNED with hard work.
Here is maybe where we are different...
I have stuff and I like my stuff, really, I do. My career is also incredibly fulfilling. But I love my life because of the people in it. The connection I have and what I share with my friends, family, my daughter gets special and separate mention, as does my SO. They are what makes my life extraordinary.
in order to have a successful relationship with anyone, you need to be happy with yourself, and not seek to find someone who will look after you in any way, whether it be financially or emotionally...because someday, for whatever reason, it could all be gone and you'll be left to your own devices again.
I could lose all the stuff tomorrow and I know I'd survive. I'm not so sure I'd survive the loss of my people tomorrow... not sure I'd want to. Yes, one needs to be happy with oneself... and I am. Your philosophy sounds like scarcity to my ears rather than abundance.
If I followed your logic further... I should be careful with loving my daughter because she might be gone one day? No, I shall love her all the more today because I do not know what tomorrow will bring.
And my fellow. Well, here I'm going to steal his words... "I got along well alone before you came into my life and should you ever wander away for whatever reason, I'll get along well in my life when you're gone" Both he and I will survive quite well on our own devices... but hoo-hah, is life different right now because we are sharing in each others' lives.
To me, survival isn't in question, nor is self-sufficiency. What has my life be worth swinging my legs out of bed each morning are the people in it and the connections we share. | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 12:32:17 PM |
i put myself first, not a man.
(ItsMargo) If a man said that to me, I would NOT date him. I am only interested in being with people who are willing to share their lives.
The post you're replying to embodies a concept that just floors me. Some people seem to think that dating will entail "losing" something; that it's a "competition", and by Gum, they're gonna make sure they're the "winner", and to Heck with consideration for anyone else, or their feelings.
If someone's so damaged, I seriously think they should just PUSH AWAY from the dating game until they're at a point where they don't see themselves as being in ruthless competition with others. SOME endeavours require a competitive, aggressive attitude -- dating/mating is NOT one of them.
Arlo | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 12:48:29 PM | (vicious vixen) ok allow me to clarify since you took it out of proportion. if my man is sick, then yes, i am most definitely there for him and i am willing to share my life
That's all well and good; but, do you think that ANY man is going to stick around for your explanation? It's like the "need/want" thing: you may THINK that telling a man, "I don't need you, but I want you!" is a good way to put it; but it's almost certain that he'll stop listening after you utter, "I don't need you!" All the "clarification" in the world won't help if a man's not listening to you, which he probably won't be after you club him with the "I don't need you!" garbage.
just need to be clear that i will not do what women have done for centuries...put a man's needs, dreams and desires ahead of their own while they fall to the wayside, staying quiet and becoming unhappy .
So, just to be clear: you think that PAST mistreatments justify a CURRENT poor choice of words and crappy attitude? These men whom you're pointing the finger at: THEY'RE ALL DEAD!!! And, I'm FAIRLY certain that they haven't suborned YOU, personally.
i work full time and do not rely on someone else to supplement my income.
That too is admirable, but consider this: the best work ethic in the world won't make a tinker's cuss worth of difference if no one will pay you to work for them.
Meh. This is all lost effort. People who are so wrapped up in listing the minutae of their "independence" are notoriously bad at listening to reason; I wonder, though, at the motivation of someone who INSISTS on being RIGHT, instead of being HAPPY.
Arlo
A lot -- and I mean a LOT -- of people should THINK before they spout off. Then, they should think again, and just keep quiet. | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 1:14:04 PM | ok seriously ladies, the man asked and i am not the only woman here to respond in that manner. rather than nitpick what your fellow woman is justifying for us all, perhaps you should delve further into what OP wrote and nitpick that rather than a fellow woman who is attempting to defend the independant woman. as margo stated, none of you actually know me so the psychological bs you spouted to me means nothing. my life is filled with love and friendships on many levels...look at the thread headline once more (If you're independant, why R U here?). he's basically saying that if we are independant then we should not be dating or having relationships with anyone???...so by attacking me for defending the independant woman you are basically agreeing with him. i've made my points and will no longer waste my time by repeating myself...in this instance, the following statement... "this is all lost effort. people who are so wrapped up in nitpicking the opinion requested by the OP of their "independence" are notoriously bad at listening to reason. i wonder, though, at the motivation of someone who insists on being right, instead of being happy" definitely applies. i have better things to do with my time.
take care all and have fun!  | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 1:17:41 PM | WTF!...If your independent, why R U here?..."Why are you here asking silly questions"?...Wow after reading the responses to this thread, "Im not answering a thing"
Define ...Need (WFT)
Define...Want(WTF)
Funnier than doodoo | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 2:01:05 PM | Had I the sense to anticipate how guttural and personal this question would touch some of you, I would never have ventured into this wolf den. I honestly wanted to know; now I’m sorry for asking.
In the classic sense it’s a loaded question, meaning there are no right answers. The question is challenging because it blurs the line between chivalry and equality.
Yes, I know you are fully capable of carrying those groceries, but allow me. Yes, I know you can open your own car door, but allow me. Yes, it’s raining cats and dogs, allow me to run out and get the car, you stay here. Yes, I’m happy you have your own place and manage all the bills, but allow me to fix that broken step.
I’ve been told I’m no gentleman as well as told I’m the best of gentleman. You own your own business and yet when we go out I can no longer determine who pulls the door open to let the other pass through.
I respect your independence, but why do I have to kill the bug? Are you picking up what I’m laying down here? | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 2:38:10 PM | | Mr. Captain,from what I see I think you do understand so I feel I won't have to say no more about what I had explained in my last post. Yes,true you haven't made any claim about your independence for I was using you as an example for really none of us are completely independent.I too agree with you in believing in personal responsibility. Too bad some wouldn't agree with that lol! I guess for now on instead of saying I'm independent on my profile descriptions I will be more accurate and choose self-reliant lol! | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 2:54:35 PM | How about self sufficient? Or maybe explain your situation?
My case for example would be:
I am debt free. I believe in being self sufficient with my finances and my budget. I am looking for a woman that is also self sufficient so that we can work and grow together towards a promising future.
The wording would be whichever fits you best, but ‘independent’ does come with a spiteful connotation to it. | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 3:03:40 PM | Maculon,from what I'm picking up you've just described the respect a man would and could have for a woman like opening the door for her or helping her carry groceries if she'd just take it as an act of kindness. Hell, I wouldn't say no to such respectful gentleman just to prove I'm independent. I know I'm independent(or self reliant) lol! But some women do take offense to it. Don't mind them. They don't know the difference between someone that's being kind or someone that is treating them as inferior or weak.Chances are that they were belittled in their past and won't see it any other way. It's not you or anyone else's fault. And don't regret posting this because to tell you the truth I kinda enjoyed this post. I hope some of what I said answered your question | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 3:28:33 PM | | On my profile, I don't have the need to list "independent". My life is full whether I have someone in it or not. Being in a relationship doesn't define me as a person. It doesn't "complete me". I view a relationship as enhancing my life. | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 3:28:58 PM | Carolann has the best answer.
So based on the OP, do most men want the dependent woman who wants your money, reliant upon only you, and a woman to be her sugar daddy? Or do you want an adult woman who is responsible enough to have educated herself to some degree, have a career, can pay bills, be able to pay for her "high maintenance", and to pay for her own vacations but still want a romance relationship? | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 3:45:08 PM | It means we're not huge, gaping, chasms of NEED. Cuz it seems plenty of men have had a run in with a woman who expected them to do too much, pay for too much, or be too much . . . Being independent means I am capable of taking care of myself, financially, physically, emotionally. Does that mean I don't want a partner? No. It means I don't NEED a partner
You took the words right out of my mouth, and thank you for that!!! cheers to justwant2no message #3. | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 4:18:07 PM | For me being independent means that I do not require getting married tomorrow or having your babies in order to know my worth. It means that I want to share my life with someone without ever having to make that person my whole life and that I am looking for someone else who is the same way in that regards. It means I will not cry over spilled milk, a broken nail, or a flat tire, I will fix it. It means a whole range of things.........what it doesn't mean is that I am not wanting a nice normal, healthy relationship. It does not mean that I am cold, or a raging b:tch (okay, okay, depends on what day you catch me on lol) and it means that I am going to be up front with you about where things stand instead of engaging in all these useless games that seem to be so prevelant on the dating sites and within the dating scene. It means if I am not your type, I will not fall apart, and my life will go on without you. It means I know who I am and am comfortable with that.
This is what it means to me, everyone is different of course........ | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 4:29:43 PM | Every single person on the planet has wants, needs, preferences, dealbreakers, requirements....we can get tangled up in the lists and verbage of trying to say what it is exactly, find someone that fits our preset "mold" of the right one.
Or we can be open to the possibility that we may encounter, stumble upon that person that we can grow to love and accept, quirks and all and that we wouldn't want to live another day without. There is no list for that, rarely do you find a couple who's totally engrossed in being happy with each other that says "he/she was exactly what I was looking for and/or wanted." I'm sure it may happen, but noone I know who's in that forunate situation has ever said that.
I don't get too hung up on what people put in their profiles, and Lord knows never gave really serious thought what I ever put into mine. Other than it being fun to write, and entertaining to read. It works for me, and I've met lots of great people, made many dear friends.
It can be very liberating (yes, I'll use the word...haha) to toss out the expectations, other than to enjoy your experience here. IMO that's the most important.  | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 4:39:23 PM | If a man is "dependent" upon ME to make him happy,,,,I would run the other way. People generally speaking have to be happy with themselves before they can make anyone happy or anyone make them happy.
I am one of those women who has "independent" within my profile. This is why......."independent" means that if a relationship ends which I am in....I still have a roof over my head, my bills still get paid and the only thing which will change is that "he" is not around.
I have found that men majority wise, not all men, do not like these types of women, due to the fact, this takes the opportunity to control a woman away. The same could possibly apply to men in relation to women as well. I've seen this performed by both genders, to be fair.
If a man does not like that I am independent, he can keep walking for more times to none, this shows me I have taken the opportunity away for he to control me and I do not tolerate these types.
I prefer independent men as well, so I can appreicate it with both genders. :) | |
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