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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 4:39:33 PM | There is a difference in independent (spelled with an "e" btw - check your subject line) and reclusive or anti-social. Appreciation of another person's company doesn't imply that the woman is lonely or insecure. A woman on POF may not even be looking for that one special someone. She might anticipate making platonic male friends to attend events that perhaps her female friends don't enjoy. She may wish to casually date a number of men to have companionship when she wants to attend social events such as movies or art galas, etc. How is that a lack of independence? Social activity does not cancel out independence.
And what would possess you to think that any women on POF are seeking "something they never had"? Maybe they've had a lot of success in other relationships prior to internet dating.
Finally, what is a requisite? I believe prerequisite is the term you are "seeking". A little tip: don't list diction (vocabulary) or spelling among your stronger traits in your profile. Good luck with that. | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 4:40:56 PM |
How about self sufficient? Or maybe explain your situation?
The wording would be whichever fits you best, but ‘independent’ does come with a spiteful connotation to it.
Just for the record, I don't go around announcing I am independent, it speaks for itself and it's not hard to spot if you know me oh, say - half an hour or so.
But this is what I see happening. Men ask what it means or why it's said, women explain what it means, men then say essentially that they don't care what it means, they don't like how it sounds and they don't want to hear it, which invalidates the need for the initial question.
So it seems like a competition, only I see women explaining and men just dismissing. So the question is....do women change it so men can deal with it, or do men ask what it means instead of taking it the way they do?
Oh...I know....why don't women try to explain it in a way that men may understand it better AND men also inquire when they hear it what that woman actually means?
Naaahh...that'd make too much sense.
Back to the thread. | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 4:42:57 PM |
Mr. Captain,from what I see I think you do understand so I feel I won't have to say no more about what I had explained in my last post.
I too agree with you in believing in personal responsibility. Too bad some wouldn't agree with that lol!
Too many would rather complain about the mythological and inaccurate history of male/female relationships of the past 5,000,000 years.
I guess for now on instead of saying I'm independent on my profile descriptions I will be more accurate and choose self-reliant lol!
Yeah! Great idea. Throw in the term 'interdependence' as well. Any man with a couple of brain cells to rub together will understand the differences.
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 4:57:56 PM | I don't use the word "independent" in my profile. If I did, it might be because I am describing my financial status. I'm NOT dependent on others for the basics in life.
I suppose I might be inclined to use "independent" when describing my way of thinking. I seldom allow others to overly influence the way I think. I have opinions on things because I have thought it through and done the research to back up my view of things. I generally do not base any opinion on "just a feeling" ... I need to see proof. I think that makes me an "independent" thinker.
Isn’t this a dating site to meet people where we think depending on each other to traverse this journey called life is a plus? I interpret dependency as "need".
Actually, I'd like to meet a man who doesn't "NEED" me to traverse this journey called life ... but rather "WANTS" me at his side as we traverse this journey called life..  | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 5:16:14 PM | | I'm independent because I have to. My choice would be to find someone I could depend on, just as much as he could depend on me. That's why I'm here. People fear the word because entails responsibility, loyalty, commitment, support when the going gets rough , and abandonment of your own precious ego at times, for the sake of peace. That's what I'm saying : / | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 5:34:07 PM |
But this is what I see happening. Men ask what it means or why it's said, women explain what it means, men then say essentially that they don't care what it means, they don't like how it sounds and they don't want to hear it, which invalidates the need for the initial question.
djchickie401, I do believe that only one man asked the question. As per my post that you quoted, Msg: 91, I was referring to Msg: 90.
I do not speak for all men, women, or they, so if you quote me to voice an alternate opinion, then please be more direct towards me and what I have said. | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 5:52:57 PM | ^^^^I apologize - I take back any reference to you in any way.
My post still stands...let's view it on it's own, separate from anyone else's replies. That should clear up any confusion.
Nowthen; just for the record, I don't go around announcing I am independent, it speaks for itself and it's not hard to spot if you know me oh, say - half an hour or so.
But this is what I see happening in threads on this topic. Men ask what it means or why it's said, women explain what it means, men then say essentially that they don't care what it means, they don't like how it sounds and they don't want to hear it, which invalidates the need for the initial question.
So it seems like a competition, only I see women explaining and men just dismissing. So the question is....do women change it so men can deal with it, or do men ask what it means instead of taking it the way they do?
Oh...I know....why don't women try to explain it in a way that men may understand it better AND men also inquire when they hear it what that woman actually means?
Naaahh...that'd make too much sense.
Back to the thread. | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 6:08:46 PM | So it seems like a competition, only I see women explaining and men just dismissing. So the question is....do women change it so men can deal with it, or do men ask what it means instead of taking it the way they do?
Thank the god that this silliness never happens when men try to explain things from THEIR p.o.v., or some of these threads might degenerate into men bashing women and women bashing men.
Yikes!
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 6:10:38 PM | | DJ Chickie is right on the money, she is just playing moderator, sizing up the opinions of others, nicely done I'd like to add. | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 6:13:39 PM | | I think that this thread has had some really good points brought up. There has been some debate, and I think that there has been quite a lot of clarification for quite a few people. I know that I have learned a lot about how others perceive independence, along with how they feel about it, themselves, and others. I am glad that this thread is here. | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 9:01:23 PM |
It means we're not huge, gaping, chasms of NEED. Cuz it seems plenty of men have had a run in with a woman who expected them to do too much, pay for too much, or be too much . . . Being independent means I am capable of taking care of myself, financially, physically, emotionally. Does that mean I don't want a partner? No. It means I don't NEED a partner. I have a wonderful relationship with a fabulous man. We are both independent, and yet, our lives have become very much intertwined. I even RELY on him from time to time. That does not mean I am dependent. See the difference?
I believe Big Al defined that as self relient.
But I have a question for the ladies here. Why is needing a man so bad? I understand the first two. Frankly the human species is a pact animal and we don't do well on our own. Humans need partners weather some like to admit it or not thats human psychology. | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/11/2008 10:20:16 PM | I haven't read the whole 5 plus pages...mostly the first one and the last few posts. So i'm not sure what was all said.
All i know is, when i see the word independent in a woman's profile, i get a bit of a negative vibe. It goes without saying that someone living by themselves would be able to take care of themselves, otherwise they'd starve and croak. So when i see a woman specify that they are independent, i get the negative vibe i was mentioning and think of her as a woman who likes to do her own thing or keep her routine and have her boyfriend be a small part of her life. Or maybe someone with a strong personality (if that makes sense).
By the posts i read, it's obviously not always the case....but i do find the women who posted are not all completely on the same page as to why they wrote independent on their profile.
Goodnight!  | |
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| If you're independEnt, why are you here?
Posted: 6/12/2008 4:50:13 AM |
But I have a question for the ladies here. Why is needing a man so bad?
I think it's more about needing "anyone" for most women - men are only referenced here because it's a dating site and men are the ones looking at the profiles. Also, a woman's definition of need is more about basic survival and financial/emotional dependency.
But I could ask the same: why is NOT being needed by a woman so terrible?
I understand the first two. Frankly the human species is a pacK animal and we don't do well on our own. Humans need partners weather some like to admit it or not; that's human psychology.
Humans do not need "partners", tho if one comes along that will enhance our already full lives that's a bonus...humans do need other humans GENERALLY. That includes friends, family, some sort of social life...
think of her as a woman who likes to do her own thing or keep her routine and have her boyfriend be a small part of her life.
All of us have people and things that are a small part of our life but are not our whole life. An SO is part of our life, but so is work, friends, family, our alone time, our hobbies activities, our health and well being, and our daily "to do" list. An SO is part of our life, but it's not our entire life. Why wouldn't a woman do her own thing and keep her schedule? | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/12/2008 6:29:04 AM |
But I have a question for the ladies here. Why is needing a man so bad?
It isn't, in fact if I were to be completely truthful, I would love to have that companionship, that belief that someone is there for me, someone loves me, someone who would stand up for me, be my shoulder to cry on, and my champion when my will to go on has given up. BUT...
Women have heard time and time again to play hard to get, be chased and don't chase, men don't like women who are needy or clingy, mean don't want to feel like a woman has to have him in her life, and that a woman should be dependent on no one for money, emotional happiness, or for a man to define her life. So, we get that engrained in our heads and for those who have had people leave their lives, had people disappoint them on a very large level, or has caused devastating financial hardships we become defensively independent. Does that make sense?
It's sort of like young guys in a fraternity. They are either in a relationship with one girl and cheating behind her back or they are hitting every chick who will kneel down. Bad analogy, but it is public face versus private face. For me anyway and I do not speak for the rest of the women here.
I have been made to understand from a very young age that even if you have strong familial backing, in the end, you can only depend upon yourself. Do not be reliant on someone else to pay your bills, fulfill your personal needs, or complete who you are. My life would be far more complete and happy if I had a man I could respect and rely upon for emotional support and love. I don't. My career has me being the leader of over 100 people in multiple locations, statewide. I have to make all the decisions. As I told someone last night, I come home and go instantly stupid because I do not want to make anymore decisions. But, come bill time, they're paid early or on time and I ask no one to chip in because I may be short one month. I figure out I don't go to a girls' night out or a movie and then I have solved the shortfall.
I would love to find one "right" man. I admit it. I'm just afraid (as a lot of people) of putting myself out there to say I am indepdent and can do it all by myself, but damn I really want someone right there beside me while we're both being independent.
Does that make any sense?
Liz | |
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| If you're independEnt, why R U here?
Posted: 6/12/2008 6:57:49 AM | That we have something to bring to the table, that we will not define ourselves by being part of a couple, or expect a man (or anyone else) to take care of us. We plan to be equal in the relationship...
____________________________________________________________READ ABOVE STATEMEMT: And this is why there is so much divorce. BRING TO THE TABLE? So am I to believe that you do not believe having babies (making your family) and taking care of them myself instead of "kenneling" them isnt bringing something to the table?
Feminizim has ruined our country. I blame it for divorce...it says it all in the above statement. In any corporation...there is always one in charge. In a football team...there is always a captain. ITS A TEAM AND WE ALL HAVE DIFFERENT JOBS.
A man provides and protects. A woman should be home nursing her child and making a wonderful enviroment for her family to live in.
The woman working 8 hours plus a couple hours of commuting has no energy left when she gets home. Does this "working woman" (frankly...I never worked so hard as I did when I was a full time mother and wife at home. I definately called that a job!!)have the energy or the time to prepare fresh healthy foods? Some time with babies to bond with them because some stranger has just put in 9 hours bonding with your child. You only get a couple hours a day.
Do you really believe that these ways are superior to the ways of the past? Sometimes there is no better way to do something than what has been done for generations and is tried and true. These new ways are NOT WORKING! Whos Helping little Johnny with his homework....Dad is out working a side job or mowing the lawn or keeping up the property or changing the oil in the car. Thats what Dads do. I have seen many things in my 30 years of adulthood and believe me....WE A RE HEADING DOWN THE WRONG PATH WHEN WE THINK WE CAN JUST KENNEL OUR CHILDREN LIKE PUPPIES AND BELIEVE THAT THE CHILDREN WILL GROW TO BE LOVING LOYAL MEMBERS OF THIS CHAOTIC FAMILY. AINT GONNA HAPPEN. ITS NOT NATURAL TO BE RIPPED AWAY FROM YOUR MOTHER DAILY JUST FOR STUPID MONEY.
LIVE LESS....AND LIVE MORE....
By the time you realize its not working....it will be too late. So sad it is. Why do people listen to radicals I will never know. Just use your common sense and think it out.
The feminist have taught the women to hate men. So now men hate women back. I think men are wonderful. They protect...provide..that is their instinct. If you choose a good man. We nurture. Thats our job.
Feminizim has made the girls so digustingly**** it makes me so sad for this next generation.
The Bible said that "in the end times....the love of MOST WILL GROW COLD. How did they ever know that so long ago.
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/12/2008 7:08:14 AM | While I do not have "independent" listed on my profile. It is very evident that I am. However, just because I am does not in any shape or form mean I am not capable of having a man in my life nor have the desire to. There is room for both/all!
Being independent is not a negative attribute like some seem to believe.
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/12/2008 7:20:23 AM | | You have hit it on the head. First, a guy that takes issue with the word independant has an angle that he is working that I don't really need to understand. Second, independant means just that....I don't NEED to do anything that I have not chosen to do for whatever reason I see fit. I appreciate your comments. Jenn | |
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| If you're independEnt, why R U here?
Posted: 6/12/2008 8:06:50 AM |
The Bible said that "in the end times....the love of MOST WILL GROW COLD. How did they ever know that so long ago.
It is a bit chilly out there isn’t it. I loved your post and your perspective. But, it would not work for most, presently. Our economy really isn’t all that good, despite what the officials say, and the need for a two person income is almost mandatory. I personally don’t care which of the two brings home the bacon, or both, but I also believe that it is a mistake to ‘corral’ children. I believe that one of the parents should be an at home parent. I am also a supporter of home schooling. Our school system is not working. More than half graduate without their virginity, and they don’t even know what they are doing. It’s a good thing that there has been liberation huh?
Funny how you mentioned it though, the women that I have seen that are insistently independent behave and act a lot like the men that the liberators complained about. But not all women are this way, just like not all men are.
As far as the end times go, we are reaching the max capacity that this world can support, fast. | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/12/2008 8:46:21 AM | Wow! Are you serious? A woman who states she is independent is just that. She is capable emotionally, financially, and physically of taking care of herself, and I would think that is what most reasonable men would desire!
You are choosing to read into the definition that an independent woman does not want to be in a meaningful relationship with a man, which is ludicrous.
I am independent.....a single mom with a job who pays her bills and is not looking for a father to her kids or a shoulder to cry on at night. That does not mean that I don't want to meet a great guy, but it does imply that I am not looking for a man to take care of me, because I can do that myelf.
Perhaps that is actually what you are looking for.....a woman who is needy and would rely on your ability/willingness to support her finacially and emotionally. I sure hope not, because how can you possibly take care of someone who can't or won't even take care of herself?
How quickly would you respond to a message left by a woman whose profile said [b}
"I am a hot mess......Emotionally needy, psychologically distraught, finanacially in ruins, and must constantly must be reminded that this is the only body I have and that I shouldn't treat it like I can get a new one every other week. I love shopping, and my credit card bills would give Bill Gates a stroke. Can you fix me, or at the very least take care of me and my problems? Please message me and let me know what you can do for ME, ME, ME."
Could it be that independent women intimidate you a little? We shouldn't at all. Get on your knees and thank your lucky stars if you are ever forunate enough to meet an independent woman with whom you have chemistry. Then your relationship is based on mutual respect and desire and not a quicksand pit of neediness and control. | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/12/2008 8:59:21 AM | ^^^^ You're making it sound like you're doing us some big favor by being (mainly) financially independent, and expect admiration and brownie points at the same time as we cower from you. This is a rather difficult mix for most guys to negotiate. "...A woman who is needy"... is that the same as one who requires a man to pursue and do the asking out and the paying? Ha!
(previous page) So based on the OP, do most men want the dependent woman who wants your money, reliant upon only you, and a woman to be her sugar daddy? Or do you want an adult woman who is responsible enough to have educated herself to some degree, have a career, can pay bills, be able to pay for her "high maintenance", and to pay for her own vacations but still want a romance relationship?
Ironically, about the only woman I know who perfectly fits your "responsible" (and independent?) definition is the only one I know who's constantly bringing up my supporting her (and, no, she's not anything remotely "high maintenance"); at first her doing this was a joke, but after about the twentieth time it wasn't so funny but instead a sign of resentment at me on her part that if only I'd "step up" and play the role of sugar daddy like a REAL man...
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/12/2008 12:38:16 PM | Life of Leisure: "You're making it sound like you're doing us some big favor by being (mainly) financially independent, and expect admiration and brownie points at the same time as we cower from you. This is a rather difficult mix for most guys to negotiate. "...A woman who is needy"... is that the same as one who requires a man to pursue and do the asking out and the paying? Ha!"
Out of curiousity, as I just read Sin City's response to this thread. Why are you interpretting this response as if she is stating that being financially independent is doing a man a "favor", etc........? lol A woman surely does not want admiration from a man because of this.
Makes no sense why some seem to feel the need to put a negative spin on this topic and its responses.
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/12/2008 1:56:21 PM | High time to put this thread to bed. Bottom line on this online Serengeti nastiness is this:
Women, if you choose to use the word independent to describe yourself, and regardless of your intentions, you will surely drive away what may just be quite a suitable match for you. Remember, men don’t share your definition of the word.
Men, it’s clear the women mean no harm, the word is generally used to show pride of accomplishment.
Me? I just had an email 10 minutes ago from someone on POF and her profile said: “I am not totally convinced I want to date as I am a very independent little turd. However, (I am finally moving to the area after
Clearly she had no idea I started this thread – isn’t that just crazy? That profile type is why I initially sought advice. It’s a perfect example, and I won’t be replying, you see, she’s just not ready, kind of like dating someone too soon after their divorce.
My advice.....I know I know, don’t say it. To the women is to cease using the word as the majority of men just get bad vibes from it. Replace it with some of the great suggestions given on here, you won’t loose anyone’s respect and have much to gain, trust me on that.
Greg | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/12/2008 2:11:59 PM | | i am on here coz i want a decent girl in my life and i am independent and i am just after some company not much to ask for really is it but i have also been mislead and god nose what and i just want to find the right girl in my life coz at the moment i live on my own in a flat and i have been single for 5 month and it aint good i rather have company than not have company if you know what i mean | |
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| If you're independant, why R U here?
Posted: 6/12/2008 2:23:24 PM | | I agree with Carolann0308......I don't get it....men hate it when we are self-reliant, men hate it when we are clingy....do men just hate us, period? | |
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