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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/29/2008 12:51:36 PM | u calling me dumb?
hey we have a new mia here...lmao 
you took that out of context....
i meant it as in mia is not the one starting the arguments....
but i think she is intitled to defent herself when she, or shall i say her oppinion is being attacked.
and from now on ill onley comment on the topic, as i dont wanna loose this beautyfull thread!, thanx again silken for starting it xx | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/29/2008 1:05:50 PM | no not calling you dumb at all just clarifying that I did not accuse mia of attacking anyone..........
I'm not here to get into a verbal battle with anyone......I asked mia a question that you chose to answer.............. | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/29/2008 1:42:10 PM | | THE FORGIVENESS OF ME ...... I FORGAVE A MAN WHO BEAT ME .....I NEVER BEAT A MAN ...........I FORGAVE A MAN WHO TERRIOZED ME..,I NEVER TERROIZED A MAN .....I FORGAVE A MAN WHO IMPRISONED ME AND ROBBED ME OF MY SOUL .......I FORGAVE A MAN WHO TOOK FROM ME ALL I THOUGHT I OWNED.....LONG AFTER I FORGAVE THIS MAN .....THE ONLY ONE I THOUGHT ...................................... | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/29/2008 2:20:08 PM | it hurts me and the kids, when he is ment to have them for a weekend, and he just dosnt turn up without calling.
the kids are hurt, and im angry cs of that, and hurt to see the kids hurt.
I would never tell my daughter that he was coming so she did not mind. And there was no need for it to make me feel anger. Why should I care if he misses time with them. This would not be my choice. But it was his. I was there and that is what the kids will remember.
You understand if you allow that person to make you angry and get into your day then you still let them abuse you right. Just make the best day ever and laugh it off and that will be what counts in the years down the road. | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/29/2008 2:46:54 PM |
it hurts me and the kids, when he is ment to have them for a weekend, and he just dosnt turn up without calling.
the kids are hurt, and im angry cs of that, and hurt to see the kids hurt.
I would never tell my daughter that he was coming so she did not mind. And there was no need for it to make me feel anger. Why should I care if he misses time with them. This would not be my choice. But it was his. I was there and that is what the kids will remember.
I understand how much that hurts you KDBugg... It's one thing for them to hurt us when we can at least understand the characteristics of an abuser but it's quite another when it plays out toward the kids when they can't possibly understand why he isn't showing up. I consider myself extremely fortunate to have had my kids raised by the time the abuser I speak of entered my life.
I could recommend your taking this back to court to have the judge revisit his order about access but it's just spinning your wheels in the sand. If the judge somehow compels him to take the kids when he doesn't want to, that puts the kids at risk for being hurt even worse by his anger and resentment.
If nothing else, it affords you a good opportunity to teach your kids how to handle disappointment by exercising their other options when he lets them down. They are lucky to have one stable parent who loves them... Some kids don't even get that...
You understand if you allow that person to make you angry and get into your day then you still let them abuse you right. Just make the best day ever and laugh it off and that will be what counts in the years down the road.
I agree with what you're saying but I also think that anger has value when some detachment from the offender is necessary. Anger is what will give a person the necessary detachment if its used right.
Unfortunately, the results of having been around or with an abuser are life-invading... They literally stream into every area of a person's life and it is hard to laugh off an angry creditor or the feelings of being less than desirable that a million ugly insults have wounded you with... Even when he's long gone, some of us are still cleaning up the messes he left behind... Maybe that laughter will come in time but for me, right now, I'm not there yet... | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/29/2008 3:37:37 PM | | you are still healing to silken fire ..ive been divourced from the monster now 6 yrs .....on my bday he left me a msg on friends reunited .....happy 50 th darling ....he has remarried silken fire why would he want to send me msg ......then they started coming the nasty ones the cruel things he always said to me there to see in black and white ....it was then i relized i was finaley free because i wasnt afraid no more .....i had let go that sad sick monster could not ......things will get better for you i promise and to everyone who is going through it now there is a future .....and you will laugh again and not be afraid ....i have 3 daughters and 3 beautiful grandaughters ...they are my world and he has no part in that ....be strong ....biggest hugs joolsy | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/29/2008 3:55:20 PM | | My question is - is their a trained Psychologist or Psychiatrist on this site that actuall has a degree who could explain why we humans do what we do? We can all give our opinions on why we might but I think if we heard from a person who has all the knowledge of why we might answer this oe for us. | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/29/2008 4:14:17 PM | | PSYCHOLOGISTS AND PSYCHIATRISTS ...MAY HAVE THE ANSWERS THEY MAY HAVE THE DEGREES BUT HAVE THEY WALKED IN OUR SHOES .......THIS THREAD IS ABOUT HELPING EACH OTHER ......SELF HELP IF YOU LIKE .....THATS MY OPINOIN OF COURSE . | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/29/2008 4:19:43 PM |
My question is - is their a trained Psychologist or Psychiatrist on this site that actuall has a degree who could explain why we humans do what we do?
There is probably a licensed psych somewhere in the site yet here is the dilemma. In a public forum, they can theorize yet said theories would not be applicable to every situation and every person. To individualize such a question, the only person who really knows the answer specific to his or her self is his or her self.
In the big picture - we humans do what we do because we are simply and quite uniquely - human. | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/29/2008 5:56:43 PM | t hurts me and the kids, when he is ment to have them for a weekend, and he just dosnt turn up without calling.
the kids are hurt, and im angry cs of that, and hurt to see the kids hurt.
Silken Fire. I was replying to the other young lady that wrote that. I don't know how to highlight when i have copied something.
Sorry but I don't argee that anger has any place. Anger has no value. I am quite over my past I was making a statement. That is what my point is. That is how I did it in order to forgive myself. | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/29/2008 6:48:18 PM | Okay KD... I'm sorry I misunderstood.
If you want to highlight a word, a phrase or a paragraph (or even a whole response), you wrap square brackets around the word quote and at the end of what you want to quote you would type [ /quote ] only without the spaces I just put there. Same if you want to bold only it would be [ b ] at the beginning and [ /b ] without the spaces at the end. Italics... same only with an "i" in place of the "b". And something else I picked up is : 38 : without the spaces makes the barfy emoticon... LOL... See  ?
Just a lil friendly trivia from yer friendly neighborhood helper...  | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/29/2008 6:53:35 PM |
you are still healing to silken fire ..ive been divourced from the monster now 6 yrs .....on my bday he left me a msg on friends reunited .....happy 50 th darling ....he has remarried silken fire why would he want to send me msg ......then they started coming the nasty ones the cruel things he always said to me there to see in black and white ....it was then i relized i was finaley free because i wasnt afraid no more .....i had let go that sad sick monster could not ......things will get better for you i promise and to everyone who is going through it now there is a future .....and you will laugh again and not be afraid ....i have 3 daughters and 3 beautiful grandaughters ...they are my world and he has no part in that ....be strong ....biggest hugs joolsy
Thank you my friend... There isn't a shred of doubt in my mind that you are a very blessed woman with your daughters and granddaughters.
I am somewhat impatient with "the process" and I can admit that... but I don't live in it... I just visit it when I'm not busy elsewhere. The one thing I have learned so far is to really trust my gut-knows (my word for intuitions that make your tummy feel strange)... It was when I didn't pay attention to them that all this got started...
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/29/2008 9:13:36 PM | hi silk--
been going through this process for three years. For me the process started with letting other people love me. When you're in an abusive relationship he cuts you off from everybody else. Insisting on simple things like going out with friends or talking to your Mom as long as you want to on the phone are a big first step.
Second, I had to practice leaving. I left a bunch of times. It took a long time to realize that in order to stay gone, I had to NOT LISTEN to him, because his silver tongue turned everything around in my head. I'd get the truth together but I couldn't seem to hold onto it when I was around him. One of the things an abuser fights for is control of reality. Stupid fights: you go,"No, dammit, the sky is blue;" and he says, "It's green!!! It's greeen!!" and then he starts screaming at you, or crying, or threatening to die on you, and sooner or later you go, "Alright already, it's green." You think it doesn't cost you so much to say it... one day you look up and you think, hey, when I was young the sky was a different color...
Third, and this is the hard part, you have to deal with your codependency issues. If you're in a relationship with an a--- hole, you get to always be the good guy. After all, you're not the one screaming about the damn color of the sky or how long he talks on the phone. You're holding it together... and FORGIVING him endlessly in hopes that he'll finally grow up. If you go out with somebody who's a real grown up you don't always look so good to yourself. You have very few chances to practice your angel act.
Then when you get out of the relationship you're not the good guy anymore. Worse, people not only don't feel sorry for you, they think you're just as much of an a--- hole as your abuser, because you "allowed" the abuse. Sometimes they think you're worse than him, after all you "knew better." Or you have to face the fact that people knew all along how bad things were for you, but they didn't do anything. Like a friend of mine who saw my child being abused and said it wasn't her responsibility to report it.
Me, I had to forgive myself for delaying growing up for as long as I did. For mistaking obsessive control for love. For magical thinking: if I could finally figure out how to act right, then he would act right toward me...
And finally, sadly, in a lot of ways there's more social and cultural support for women who stay in abusive relationships than women who get out. It's hard out here and the system doesn't do anything it promises, including protecting women and their kids from dangerous men. Ask at your local domestic violence shelter: you put your life in most danger when you leave.... | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/29/2008 10:12:26 PM |
hi silk--
been going through this process for three years. For me the process started with letting other people love me. When you're in an abusive relationship he cuts you off from everybody else. Insisting on simple things like going out with friends or talking to your Mom as long as you want to on the phone are a big first step.
Hi Worldchild... First let me say thank you for your thought-provoking post. I was particularly grabbed by your saying "For me the process started with letting other people love me". I sat and thought about that awhile. The abuser I was around was very keen on isolating me and ended up actually pulling a dagger on my roommate. I was not an easy girl to isolate but even though I continued to refuse to be with the abuser, I did, in fact, withdraw from everyone. If I have one prayer for my own eyes, it's that they NEVER again see a friend who cares about me about to be stabbed... And yes, I have continued to be withdrawn because now, after 6 years, I have learned to not only be comfortable with it but to prefer it... at least until I am better.
Second, I had to practice leaving. I left a bunch of times. It took a long time to realize that in order to stay gone, I had to NOT LISTEN to him, because his silver tongue turned everything around in my head.
Many abusers are chameleons or "shape-shifters"... They can turn the cruelty and charm off and on like most of us do light switches and you're so right about having to grab your own perceptions and not listen to another word.
The difference in my situation was that this was a person I dated briefly and really saw him at first as being the answer to my dreams. We met over the Net after I'd had a year of many losses and in our written communications, I'd naturally mentioned the things that meant the most to me... my career, my children and grandchildren, living a meaningful life, music... all of that. I was.. naive... We spent a beautiful 9 days together and I was prepared to move to his city when the older people he was staying with answered the phone one night instead of him. The elderly gent swore me to silence but told me a number of things that were enough to make me cool my jets. When the abuser heard I wasn't going to move out there after all, that's where the horrors began. I refused to be with him other than to be his friend but during my initial time with him, I'd put out a number of resumes in a city that offered me a great deal of opportunity and I had an amazing offer that compelled me to go there anyway. In the next months, he peppered my telephone and e-mail with pleas and promises. He lost about 50 lbs and became homeless. His suffering was visible. I tried to help him but it was also hard on me. It sent mixed signals to him and finally about 12 months after I'd first met him, he attacked me for the first time. Then he showed up at my house a few hours later and tried to attack my roommate with the dagger. I got in the way. At trial, he was given a conditional discharge and within an hour, he was within 1 mile of me and back on the phone, telling me to come to him or he would come to me...
My story is a long one but suffice to say, I had little difficulty actually leaving him. The problem I had was his threats to harm my children and grandchildren. I knew that he would do as he threatened he would do so, I chose to stay in his way. And I waited for someone in the judicial system to understand what I was up against.
I have heard that many women have to leave a number of times before they can manage to stay gone, particularly with one of the two people they are living with, is someone they love... For me, it became a question of how much I was willing to part with or how thorough I should be in my leaving. I kept trying not to have to give up absolutely everything but at the end of the day, I had to...
Third, and this is the hard part, you have to deal with your codependency issues.
You know WC... before the late 80's, there was no such thing as "codependency". There was another term for it back then and it was called "wife". For many of us, having the ability to love, the willingness to make sacrifices, the willingness to forgive and the ability to make compassionate decision was what being a wife was what wifedom and motherhood were all about. Not only did we try to live up to the good wife ideals but there were very few rewards. There was no paycheque, no pensions, no references and certainly, very few thank you's but we did what we had been taught to do. Then in the late 80's, somebody went and made a disorder out of us! Now.. how nasty is that little double-whammy??!!??!!
It's true that most of us don't really want to have other people's lives flash in front of us as we're dying but I also think that our operating in a way that is about loving others and not being selfish, doesn't equal thinking we're in someone's life to become grandiose in our importance.
I've read many of the books on co-dependency and I think they make some very valid points but I think that the whole theory of being addicted to others as opposed to fulfilling what were our previously necessary roles, has very very blurry lines...
It's certainly worthy of our taking a serious look at the ways in which we choose to love and whether or not we are actually empowering someone or disempowering them (which of course isn't loving at all) but it's also a very confusing issue.
And finally, sadly, in a lot of ways there's more social and cultural support for women who stay in abusive relationships than women who get out. It's hard out here and the system doesn't do anything it promises, including protecting women and their kids from dangerous men.
This is so true... A lot of the "just leave" is mouthwork and it's damn hard to start over... But hey... we're doing it aren't we???
Thanks so much for a message that REALLY made me think...  | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/30/2008 5:24:30 AM | This is so true... A lot of the "just leave" is mouthwork and it's damn hard to start over... But hey... we're doing it aren't we???
Actually - all "why" set aside, does it not really come down to "just do it"? The only thing being questionable is the "when". What some may perceive as "mouthwork" is actually doing what? In the context of how much verbal abuse occurs in an abusive relationship, that mouthwork is necessary to counter the constant battery of "you can't, you won't, you'll never..." which is an integral part of the abuser's efforts to control. Before one can leave, one has to believe that one can leave - safely at that. We have to convince ourselves that we CAN leave...right?
You know WC... before the late 80's, there was no such thing as "codependency". There was another term for it back then and it was called "wife". For many of us, having the ability to love, the willingness to make sacrifices, the willingness to forgive and the ability to make compassionate decision was what being a wife was what wifedom and motherhood were all about. Not only did we try to live up to the good wife ideals but there were very few rewards. There was no paycheque, no pensions, no references and certainly, very few thank you's but we did what we had been taught to do. Then in the late 80's, somebody went and made a disorder out of us! Now.. how nasty is that little double-whammy??!!??!!
An interesting observation, Silken. It's not a gender specific label although the timing of its inception certainly makes it appear that way. We all know that humanity needs labels to make sense of things that don't make sense - yet this particular one impacts as much on the abuser when applied correctly. Key words: applied correctly.
Part of what made it so hard for me to leave my ex and stay gone (onset of the 1980's) was the beliefs in effect at that time of a woman's role. Our own church knew he was abusive as well as an alcoholic and worked ad nauseum with him to convey that he had husband responsibilities - such as hold a job to start with. Yet, they dropped me like a hot potato when I fled with my daughter. Timing is everything when leaving and that has squat to do with co-dependence - yet everything to do with planning for that "just leave" time, knowing full well that it is not as simple as just leaving if one is planning to live beyond leaving. Did staying as long as I did in the marriage make me a co-dependent? H*ll no. It took that long to put a plan in place to keep my daughter and I safe upon leaving. | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/30/2008 8:21:08 AM |
And psychiatry often resorts to chemicals, to drugs..but that really only puts a band-aid on many problems, and does not eliminate the root causes. 'Root' is the important word here.
that is so true....
i have never seen a profesional psyciatrist, because of that reason.
i rember saying to a frind some yrs ago, when i was still relly unhappy,
wich showed in my looks and actions,
"mayebe i need antidepressants."
(the frind had been on them after the death of her mom)
she said to me nooooooooooo, u dont want them.
"they make you feel like a zombie. they do more harm then good."
and that has allways stuck in my mind.
evrytime i was low, i thought to myself, im gonna get through this....
i can tell now when i need a good cry.
i think laughter comes on its own,
but alot of pplz find it differcult to cry. because it is considerd as a weekness.
if i think it does me good, put a sad film in, glass of wine, and the floodgates open....
hahahahahahahahaha
and it is such a relief. i cant discribe how much better i feel the next day.
i think repressed feelings come out in the long run as physical disease,
and lasting emotional scars.
what are antidepressants gonna do?
they dont give you a chance to feel.....anything i suppose.
saying that.....i suppose an abuser feels alot of anger....and often dosnt even know himself, what about.
maybe espechiaslly if the abuse is onley emotional. but pysical too.
i think abusers are insecure, and have been deeply hurt somewhere along the way.
so yeah i suppose they deserve our compassion....
and mabe they are the ones that need the counceling, and anger management, not the "victem".
pplz often say a lepard never changes its spots.....
but maybe an abuser can be stopped, or shall i say stop himself...by recognising they have a problem.
i suppose the shame of admitting they have, and what is wrong with them stops them.
my ex will say to this day, he hasnt got an alcehol problem....
and im thinking, "yeah....no you havent have you?"
thats why i found emptys im my cooking pots, and even in my wet n dry vacum cleener.
the doctors hand out antidepressants like sweets these days...
and i think it causes more problems in the long run, and costs a fortune,,,,,.
money that could be spand better.
As for my views on 'cheating' and adultery...they are not based upon a Judeo Christian model, but are based upon the reality that many (most) people are channelled into ill-conceived monogamous agreements by social and religious pressures, and in many cases the agreement should never have been made in the first place.
my thinking exactley. i think pplz rush into things, because they are scared of being alone.
they are not patient enough to wait for "the one".
i suppose that is why so many pplz sneer if you say " the one".
they come out with bla bla bla, and you still believe in that crap.....
yes - sorry i do.
why should i make do with second best.
been there, done that, wont make the same mistake again.
im quite happy by myself.
there is not enough hrs in the day for me.
and when im sitting in my gardenswing, enjoying the sun, i think to myself, why would i want some dude here, giving it all that, making a noise, and saying nothing really....
i want someone to enjoy the silence with, and hugs that mean something.
sex and saying "i love you" 100 times a day are highley overrated.
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/30/2008 1:38:33 PM | | my opnion is we all do what we do to survive ...religion i feel dosent come into it im proberley going to get blasted for saying this .....i often prayed to god please help me ....he never did i had to help myself .....so can we please stop preaching religion and higher teachings and get back to helping people who have been abused .....hugs joolsy | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/30/2008 5:47:50 PM | | hi world child ...i agree with you totaley how hard it is to leave for me it took 26 yrs ....it was only when he tryed to destroy my daughters did i find the strength to leave ....the police did there best to help me ...i even went bk to the family home and got a police order that he couldnt come anywhere near me ....while i was sleeping one nite he broke in ....well the police said it was his house even though i had an order on him ....he beat me black and blue broke both my arms and raped me not in the normal way ...he did it the most degrading way for a women .....when he left with the sick smile on his face i new i had to go right that minute ....my daughters and i left with what we stood up in .....it took a long while to be healed i guess im still healing now .....BUT TO BE FREE IS WONDERFUL THING .....I LIVE FOR NOW AND TO SEE MY DAUGHTERS SMILES IS WONDERFUL .....BIG HUGS JOOLSY | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/30/2008 6:03:08 PM | | IM SORRY I DOINT AGREE MIA ....I FEEL WE ARE HELPING EACH OTHER BY TALKING ABOUT OUR EXPERIENCES ...WHAT WE DOINT NEED MY OPINION IS PEOPLE PREACHING THE RELIGIOUS BELIEFS ....THATS MY OPINION THOUGH ....RELIGION IS ANOTHER FORM OF CONTROL ....YES TRUE HEALING IS AN INSIDE JOB BUT ITS GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH TANTRA OR ANY OTHER RELIGON OR HIGHER TEACHING ....UNLESS YOU HAVE WALKED IN OUR SHOES THEN MAYBE YOU CAN UNDERSTAND ... | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/30/2008 6:21:59 PM | | QUOTE...WELL JOOLSY,I THINK SOME WILL MAKE THE CONNECTION OTHERS WONT .....WHAT CONNECTION ?......THIS THREAD IS ABOUT FORGIVING OURSELVES AFTER BEING ABUSED ITS NOT FOR RECRUITING PEOPLE FOR TANTRIC .....THEY ARE YOUR BELIEFS NOT OURS ......CAN WE PLEASE GET BACK TO WHAT THIS THREADS ABOUT....AND I THANK YOU I AM ON THE ROAD TO A FULL RECOVERY AND IM VERY MUCH EMPOWERED | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/30/2008 6:39:12 PM |
THIS THREAD IS ABOUT FORGIVING OURSELVES AFTER BEING ABUSED ITS NOT FOR RECRUITING PEOPLE FOR TANTRIC .....THEY ARE YOUR BELIEFS NOT OURS ......CAN WE PLEASE GET BACK TO WHAT THIS THREADS ABOUT
Off-Topic Sidebar: Yes, I concur with the above - absent the caps. If anyone has a forgotten or lost track of what the original topic was intended to be for this thread, please read the opening post which should clarify this thread's intended topic.
Sorry Original Poster - but enough was enough, IMO. | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/30/2008 11:23:20 PM |
WELL JOOLSY,I THINK SOME WILL MAKE THE CONNECTION OTHERS WONT .....WHAT CONNECTION ?......
that connection......
As for my views on 'cheating' and adultery...they are not based upon a Judeo Christian model, but are based upon the reality that many (most) people are channelled into ill-conceived monogamous agreements by social and religious pressures, and in many cases the agreement should never have been made in the first place.
she is saying that if pplz wasnt pressured in to ill-fated marriges by society (for example being frowned at if youre not married by a certain age), or religious pressures (for example arranged marriges) there would be alot less unhappy pplz about,
therfore alot less violence.
if you cant make the connection staright away, meditate on it! | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 7/1/2008 12:52:45 AM |
he beat me black and blue broke both my arms and raped me not in the normal way ...he did it the most degrading way for a women .....when he left with the sick smile on his face i new i had to go right that minute ....my daughters and i left with what we stood up in
joolsy i really take my hat off to you.
you are such a brave lady.
my ex has never broke any of my bones...
infact, he has once said to me...."dont worry, i allways hit you where no-one can see
the marks".
***hole.... | |
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