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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/14/2008 7:57:15 AM | Because modern experts in the field of developmental psychology are more likely than not to agree that abusive cycles in relationships have a lot to do with the individual. That to me doesn't imply that people ask to be abused nor deserve it. Rather that decisions to be in relationships may have more to do with how the individual processes information.
This correct..........also early conditioning.....if you grew up in an abusive home you tend to gravitate toward what is familiar........this concerns the abused and the abuser......breaking the cycle of abuse is not just words it takes actions and a rethinking process..........plus discernment in assessing people........
I have heard many times .......I hated what my father did to my mother and swore I would never go there but now I am living it........
Or ...all I knew was my father verbally and physically abusing my mother...and now I am the abuser........... | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/14/2008 8:09:07 AM | Although I said earlier I had nothing more to say, Msg 49 changed my mind: Felanie, I see no one making assumptions in this thread. In your post, you said: "I see that people are assuming the type of abuse that went on?" None of us made assumptions & the entire gist of this thread is about the process of recovery from abuse (IMO, the OP just used "forgiving" in her method of recovering - her experience) & each of us have used different ways of coping with it before, during & after - that is not to say that similarities do not exist. You go on to list the types of abuse & that there is an answer for each one - may I also point out that there is not an "answer" to each one because not one of the types you list stands alone - abuse usually overlaps - the physical abuser has "conditioned" the "abusee" with emotional &/or mental &/or any number of types of abuse before the first blow is ever made. And even if there were one answer to resolve a singular issue of abuse, it would still be different when applied because we each have different lives, circumstances, experiences. In a later post you stated that this is personal & in that you are correct - what works for one may not work for another, we each have to find our own path to recovery to end being the abuser's victim both during the time of abuse & in the aftermath- unfortunately during the "conditioning" stage of abuse, we can't usually see it coming.
If Silken needs to "forgive" her abuser & herself to be rid of the effects of being victimized, then its "right" for her & if forgiving/forgetting such is impossible for you, then that's "right" for you. I can understand why forgiving oneself in this scenario is applicable because in my case (my anger) was directed at myself for being in the situation in the first place - after all, I am a strong, intelligent person & believed I should have been smarter than to find myself in such a quagmire. In writing this I now realize that yes, I did have to forgive my self-perceived stupidity to be able to move on with life. Have I forgiven him? Maybe... forgotten? never....
Enough people tend to criticize/label someone who has been abused - must we do so among ourselves. We each have our own story, how we dealt with it & should not be so willing to turn on each other if we are not in total agreement of what should be done, how it should be done or what are our expectations/results. We are individuals & deal with our lives as individuals - IMO, the best we can hope for in life is to discover those things that are "right" for us as those individuals without regrets for what was or what might have been.
Now I'm done.... I think
cata  | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/14/2008 5:38:12 PM |
I'd like to know which early psychologists you are referencing.
I am referencing Krafft-Ebing and Freud to name 2 of the early psychologists. Krafft-Ebing saw a basic and natural tendency in men towards sexual sadism and a natural tendency of women towards sexual masochism, a view that would be expanded by psychoanalysis. Freud adopted Krafft-Ebing's theories. Helene Deutsch postulated that all women are masochistic by nature (Deutsch 1930), reinforcing Krafft-Ebing's and Freud's views.
As a child in the 1950's and 60's, I overheard people speaking of women who were experiencing domestic violence as being "masochistic" and liking for their husbands to hurt them.
Rather that the process that a person decides to be with a partner may have more to do with how the individual processes information.
I am most certainly no expert on how individuals "process information" but I can say that when the "information" has the ability to hoodwink psychotherapists, judges, police officers, the rest of us who meet someone who is a shape-shifter, we don't have a prayer to recognize them or "process information". | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/14/2008 7:00:50 PM | silken, I grew up w/ an abusive mother ...both for the berating and beating, and found myself first turning to my father's mother for my peace of mind and heart. After she died, an older female friend of our family, who dearly loved my father ...as most people did, had taken over as the wise sage to whom I turned for advice and solace. She tolerated my mother, not unlike my father's mother did as the patient family matriarch, but she did so in a more creative way. All of these people have since passed away, and it's the memory of each ...including that for my once abusive mother, who came to my rescue in the wake of my very unjust divorce a few years ago, that I truly cherish for their being there for me when. Once my mother died, I only had my son ...who still has so much learn to be there for me.
When my ex decided to divorce me, she did so after isolating me from where and what I'd built up for a good life. Her 'draining me of my resistance' w/ her ongoing sob stories for why she needed to move here for her 'career contentment' has me knowing that abusers too often masquerade themselves as being the abused ...when, in fact, it's one more way they've learned to 'have their way' when not having their way seems like abuse to them. It is an abusive relationship if and when your voice or vote don't matter in their decisions. | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/15/2008 6:18:58 AM | the forgiveness is for the twisted view that one holds - lonestardaddy, it's self-abuse when you continue to allow a relation where your voice and vote don't matter - in YOUR OWN DECISIONS. It's personal - between the 'I' and 'me'.
Blaming outside of your self is irresponsible. Looking to 'You' for help between 'I' and 'me'.
You supplant someone else with your own responsibility to your self (me).
It's self-abuse to remain in an abusive relationship - at the point you realize the other person isn't considering 'you'(me) - and you (I) 'go along' you (I) become your(MY) own abuser.
That's the issue that calls for forgiveness - to 'give for' the sake of change and put the past to rest. To claim that 'this' will be no more, like a metamorphosis - 'I' forgive 'me' and become ONE who will not tolerate 'YOU'! | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/15/2008 6:28:10 AM |
You can still have a full life, trust people, not be angry, or bitter; and NOT forgive your abuser.
That's probably true. You can also live without arms and legs and not forgive the person who ran you over. But in order to return to the "whole" person we once were, I think it's far better to at least rebuild the parts we can rebuild.
If you aren't angry, does that mean that you HAVE forgiven?
I don't know for sure. I don't think so. I think a number of us can block a number of our feelings and just live inside our heads. That becomes kind of a lonely place to be.
If the abused had the opportunity to 'get back at' her abuser, and she has "forgiven" him, does that mean that she would let the opportunity go by? If she jumped at the chance to have him convicted, jailed, exiled, whatever...does that mean then that she didn't forgive him in the first place??
Yes... If the abused had the opportunity to exact some kind of revenge on the abuser and she let it go by, it means that on some level, she knows she will not be better off for getting the revenge. Does it mean she has forgiven him? I don't think so. If she "jumped at the chance to have him convicted, jailed, exiled, whatever", I don't think forgiveness or lack of it had anything to do with his being tried by the courts for what he did. It isn't up to the abused to decide for the judge what the abuser is deserving of. It is up to her (or him) to do what is necessary to be safe. Very, very few of us jump for joy to see someone we love and care about being led away in handcuffs.
This is ridiculous.. If you think you need to forgive yourself, you are taking part responsibility for the abuse.. in which case, you should seek counselling from a professional.
You think it's ridiculous to own the parts of your own decisions and behavior that made you vulnerable or perhaps in some cases, even dependent on the abuser? Hmmm... I disagree. Within the cycle of abuse, there are numerous circumstances that can keep a person trying to forgive the abuser, taking him (or her) back for "another chance", trying to keep a family together... Like it or not, many of those circumstances have to do with how a person came to be with the abuser to begin with, how they got "hoovered" and what their own reasons were for trying to make it work.
If you think that it's "ridiculous" to take a look at yourself , your choices, your thinking processes and your own boundaries and that when you do so, you won't find some repair work that needs to be done, then I would respectfully suggest that this thread probably isn't for you.
Abuse is VERY personal, each person takes it differently, however, the person it happens to, isn't qualified to judge if they blame themselves, and the best way to begin to "forgive" her/himself, is to seek some honest P2P therapy.
Are you thinking that a therapist is going to sit and tell their client whether or not they need to take responsibility for any given aspect of what has transpired for their client? To say that a person who has been abused isn't qualified to judge whether or not they take any responsibility... well now THAT is what I call ridiculous. Most of us, IF we're self-honest, will, upon examining their own role in what has happened, find thought processes and behaviors that led us to the abusive events. That doesn't mean that we take responsibility for the abusive behaviors of the other person but it DOES mean that we need to seriously consider the weak links in our own connective chains and THAT is what P2P therapy is for... We don't go into therapy to fix THEM. | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/15/2008 7:10:33 AM |
I've had the pleasure of traveling through my life and found changing is as easy as following your happiness. Since you are free now I suggest you begin by doing things you like and within its intricacies you will find a new life.
Thank you for another good idea Childofgodus... I am not sure if doing things we like is part of the forgiveness process but it certainly is part of the healing process.
There are the conflicted feelings of hatred for the person that did it to you and the self disgust at allowing it to happen to you.
So in that sense you must forgive your self your and accept how easily it can be to fall into the trap of an abuser.
The lessons I learned was that it was allowing somone to capitalize on my insecurities that allowed that person to control and abuse me.
There it is in a nutshell folks! I do think tho' that it isn't necessarily insecurities that allow an abusive person to come into someone's life. Many, many abusers use the compassion and a person's ability to try to see the best in someone as their leverage to get into someone's life. The majority of us were raised to have compassion for others. We were taught to look for the good things about a person. We were told that it wasn't "nice" to be judgmental. These are not "insecurities" but the ingredients of humanity and kindness that our parents attempted to incorporate into our systems. The final lesson in these things should have been in how to balance these humanitarian feelings with common sense but many of us didn't get that final lesson.
I don't think self forgiveness has a place, I think one needs to find self love.
Self forgiveness has a place where self-expectations have come into play. Although many people believe that they need to love themselves for just being, where I come from self-esteem was dependent on much more than just breathing and existing. Self-esteem was based on performing acts of integrity, goodness and character. I often wonder now, if the generation of "me" doesn't recognize the lack of validity in self-esteem that has only the basic human functions at its foundation.
Speaking for myself only, I have found in my own therapy that I have some things I need to forgive myself for and it isn't that I've been a bad person. I didn't realize when I first crawled out of my lengthy marriage that people weren't always what they appeared to be and that mental illness and personality disorders have climbed to a pandemic scale in these last decades.
If I'd known there was going to be a "test", I woulda studied... 
Enough people tend to criticize/label someone who has been abused - must we do so among ourselves. We each have our own story, how we dealt with it & should not be so willing to turn on each other if we are not in total agreement of what should be done, how it should be done or what are our expectations/results. We are individuals & deal with our lives as individuals - IMO, the best we can hope for in life is to discover those things that are "right" for us as those individuals without regrets for what was or what might have been.
Well said Cata! I couldn't agree more that enough people criticize/label people who have been abused. I wish I had a nickel for the times the police yelled at me about "letting him be around" and wouldn't listen when I tried to explain that the neighbors in the apartment building let him in or that I didn't want to get evicted so I tried to stop him from kicking in the glass doors in the vestibule to get in. I had one officer yell at me for over 20 minutes about "letting him in" until the tears were streaming down my face. They found him sitting outside my apartment door when they arrested him but still thought I needed a "good, strong talking-to". Meanwhile, they made sure they didn't bump his head on his way into the squad car. And that was only the beginning of the "judgments" that made me feel so isolated and alone while I wrestled with someone who would not go away.
The thing that makes a lot of the verbal aspect of abuse so very painful is that often there is a "grain of truth" in what the abuser says to his target. For instance, my first husband was killed on his bike while he was drinking. Afterwards, I struggled for months to try to come to peace with whether or not there was something I could have done differently or better or something I should not have done... Years later, my abuser liked to sneer at me that I had killed my husband. The words alone, made something in my chest literally curl up in pain.
My part in that? I shouldn't have told him about my husband's death. I should not have trusted him with something that painful to me. Once I forgive myself for my lack of good judgment, I will choose my confidantes far more wisely.
You speak with wisdom Cata... Thank you for sharing it with us.
One answer only...allow myself the grace and humanity to be the broken fuk up I was, stop holding myself hostage--and everyone stupid enough to give a damn about me--and go back to that lil girl that was playing outside, pick her up and hold her. Tell her it's OK. Tell her you love her to pieces no matter what. Tell her she's beautiful. Tell her you're proud of her...tell her she's amazingly strong. Tell her she survived. Tell her it's OK to start over, even if it takes a dozen times. Shake her! Tell her it's time to pick up that key, turn the lock, open the door, and get outside and play.
(And find all those people you were mean to and tell them what you need to tell them. Now!)
Sentence served.
Wow FG!!! wow... wow... wow!!!
I started "inner child" work many years ago but it got lost in the push and shove of the years... I think it's time to get back to it and I thank you for this reminder...
Your "allowed myself the grace and humanity to be the broken fukkup I was" has sunk in full force as I read this...
I'm glad I was a "lil taskmaster" because I wouldn't have heard this part.
You're such an amazing lady... May God always keep you safe and happy in the palm of His hand...
I hope these suggestions are helping others as much as they are helping me. Thank you to all who have written in with the tiny pieces of gold I hope to weave into the fabric of my life in the future. | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/15/2008 1:20:11 PM | Aww, silken! Thank you very kindly---I ain't all that amazing, I simply chose to stand back up like so many before me have. It's doable, darlin.
I really, really didn't wanna go into all that and it did make me work and it hurt, too, but reading your response, I'm very glad I shared.
I started "inner child" work many years ago but it got lost in the push and shove of the years... I think it's time to get back to it and I thank you for this reminder...
Indeed...get back "in" there! Ain't no bigger or more important push and shove than the one that will free you.
When you're tired and hurtin, read this over and over again, or better yet, get the cd! I've played this so many times (and sang my guts, out too, lol) that I know every single note, every intake of her breath, I know it inside out!
Sugarland, "Stand back up"
"Go ahead and take your best shot,
Let 'er rip, give it all you've got,
I'm laid out on the floor,
but I've been here before,
I may stumble, yeah I might fall,
Only human, aren't we all?
I might lose my way, but hear me when I say,
I will stand back up,
You'll know just the moment
when I've had enough,
Sometimes I'm afraid,
and I don't feel that
tough,
But I will stand back up.
I've been beaten up and bruised,
I've been kicked right off my shoes,
Been down on my knees
more times than you'd believe,
When the darkness tries to get me,
There's a light that just won't let me,
It might take my pride,
and my tears may fill my eyes,
But I'll stand
back
up.
I've weathered all these storms,
I just turn them into wind
so I can fly,
What don't kill you makes you stronger,
When I take my
last
breath,
That's when I'll just give up,
So, go ahead and take your best shot,
Let 'er rip, give it all you've got,
You might win this round
but you can't keep me down,
'Cause I'll stand back up,
And you'll know just the moment
when I've had enough,
Sometimes I'm afraid
and I don't feel that
tough,
But
I'll
stand
back
up."
Sometimes, the answers are just so simple. Sometimes, all it takes is simply doing it, and in doing it, you start to believe it. When you believe it, that's when you'll fly.
One life darlin...it's time now to live it well, and wide openly.  | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/15/2008 10:25:18 PM | Where to begin. First understanding that the only one that truly suffers by unforgiveness is ourselves. And forgiving an abuser absolutely doesn't mean saying what was done was ok or trivializing it. It doesn't mean it's ok to do it again either. Unforgiveness is like a cancer and will eat away at you, destroying your life. I am no longer a willing victim today and I no longer carry that ton of pain and rage and anger on my shoulders. I am free today in so many ways and it started with forgiving myself but boy it took work.
ALOT of my life was ruined by abuse early on, I didn't see how it affected EVERY area till much later. I won't put down specific personal details - not online. But the abuse done as a child created a career victim in me for along time. Some huge events took place in my life that brought me to such a place that I realized I couldn't live this way anymore and became willing to do whatever I could to be free of that rage anger and pain.
I devoured every book and publishment on the subject of abuse, forgiveness, anger ect. Know what? It seemed to make things worse, triggered alot of painful things.
So then I began taking classes, joined support groups, sought out others who had not only "survived but turned their lives around". Beth Moore "Get out of that pit". Excellant source especially if you know her personal story. I started really working through selfhelp workbooks. Forgive and Forget by Charles Stanley was great and a few others such as "Breaking Free of Codependancy" by Mia (?last name).
Then I started to devour everything "POSITIVE". Quit watching news about abuse, movies like that ect. Comedy, inspirational, whatever. I just started surrounding myself with anything that was uplifting and healing. I also wrote letters to those I couldn't seem to forgive - and prayed for them daily (doesn't matter what your faith is).
This didn't come over night, or in weeks or even a few months. It took work but I was and still am determined not to allow that cancer to destroy my life anymore. My letters/prayers went from hateful wanting the person(s) to choke on chicken bones to asking "God" to help me heal from the hate and the letters became messages that simply stated what they did and how it hurt me, that it was and isn't ok, that I was working on forgiving them for myself - that in NO way was I excusing their actions but that I was no longer willing to allow them to effect my life. These letters became huge in healing and still are. I never sent them. I read them in a support group and that was rough but incredible. I don't think there is any one way to go through this but I couldn't have done it without help, support love and understanding from others who dealt with similiar issues.
Anyway to those who are still suffering from this, there is hope and healing and wow life can be good!!! It isn't easy but it is possible. Ever look out windows soooooooo muddy you could barely make anything out at all? Then wash and clean those windows so good that you could barely tell there was a window there and it was so sunny and sky so blue? That's life today compared to before. Life of course is still life, some days are better then others. I struggle now with this thing called dating. I didn't do it much so I feel quite foolish in alot of things but I am thankful for these forums. Here is another source of information/support/help. Hope this helps. | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/16/2008 5:57:58 PM | A few of the other posters who "bashed" what I typed;
Don't ASSUME that I haven't been there before, perhaps people have different "coping mechanisms", as those who have been there before should know and not jump on the "You don't know what you are talking about" bandwagon.
Silken;
Were you abused and trying to find the answer? Or are you just trying to dig through the comments and posts to come up with a better idea of the "Abused Human Psyche"? It's simple enough to pick up a pamphlet at the local doctor's office about the Circle of Abuse, and what most women go through has shown to be consistently similar in domestic abuse cases.
Nothing is more exciting than creating a thread where there can be such controversy, discussion, and irate attitudes is there?
In all seriousness;
Been there, done that, could write an encyclopedia about it.
Focusing the anger, hurt, and feeling of betrayal to the person who was the abuser is probably the easiest way of getting over any "poor me" syndrome. Anger takes up so much energy that deciding to not be angry about it, is far more productive than carrying any of the residual negative feelings into a new and better life without the abuser. | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/16/2008 6:05:58 PM | | I wouldn't say abused people lack in self confidence, the get all wrapped up in loving someone. It is hard to leave that person. You know what they are doing is so wrong and they are completely mind-****ing you (excuse the term), but its the manipulation which the abuser is oh so very good at. I am trying to get over my husband assaulting me and verbally abusing me. I am getting professional help because retraining your brain is so difficult. | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/16/2008 6:17:49 PM |
Silken;
Were you abused and trying to find the answer? Or are you just trying to dig through the comments and posts to come up with a better idea of the "Abused Human Psyche"? It's simple enough to pick up a pamphlet at the local doctor's office about the Circle of Abuse, and what most women go through has shown to be consistently similar in domestic abuse cases.
Felanie... It's obvious from your question that you have read very little of the posting here but even that doesn't surprise me given your view of things. I guess some people might post a "let's everybody get together and discuss something controversial" post but that isn't my practice. I generally post because something is of particular interest to me and probably, applies to my own experience in one way or another.
You won't read anything that's been posted here in a "Circle of Abuse" pamphlet since most of those pamphlets are published by the mental health departments of public agencies rather than ACTUAL people who have ACTUALLY experienced the intricacies of each stage of healing. Naming the "parts" on a generic level is much like looking at the pictures on a label. What I have tried to explore is the actual ingredients... I don't agree with you that what people go through is "consistently similar" and how they come out of an abusive situation is even less similar.
Nothing is more exciting than creating a thread where there can be such controversy, discussion, and irate attitudes is there?
I "GET" your insinuation Felanie but actually there are a lot of things I find more exciting than creating threads here on POF.
I hope you'll forgive us for apparently touching a nerve in you. If you read the whole thread, you'll even figure out how to forgive us and then, we can be friends. How 'bout that? | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/16/2008 6:30:41 PM |
Focusing the anger, hurt, and feeling of betrayal to the person who was the abuser is probably the easiest way of getting over any "poor me" syndrome.
In many survivor "circles", that's comparable to riding the blame train in first class rather than coach. There is NO easy out to full recovery of abuse - except denial which is not getting over anything, merely delaying the inevitable wake-up call.
IMHO - this is a flawed concept. Can't be a victim without having an abuser yet can't have an abuser without having a victim. So, unless that abuser at the onset lassoed that victim against her (or his if a male victim) will and physical capacity to vamoose - takes two and BOTH have accountability respectively, even if the limit of the victim's accountability are the choices at the onset to hook up with that abuser. Beyond that first incident, victim accountability is staying if that victim does not walk away - regardless of how frightened and how severe. Only the victim can open her (or his) mouth, and unless restrained, can tell their legs where to take them. The illusion of focusing all the blame on the abuser is that the victim feels free, yet really isn't free at all. All illusions shatter eventually - even the best of them.
Anger takes up so much energy that deciding to not be angry about it, is far more productive than carrying any of the residual negative feelings into a new and better life without the abuser.
Hmmm...an interesting concept. So taking this suggestion literally, the bandaid solution for wounds in need of major surgery is to dismiss a valid and viable human emotion. Interesting - yet here is the problem with repressed anger. It erupts destructively eventually in some manner. Anger in and of itself is not an unhealthy emotion. HOW it is expressed is what defines whether it is productive or destructive. Reactivity is a form of anger seeping out. Plus, for someone who purports freedom to not be carrying any of the residual negative feelings, there surely is reactivity to any disagreement with her position.
Merely an observation. | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/16/2008 6:43:06 PM | You really ARE a 'Silken Fire'!!!
That was very loving, and direct..yet immensely diplomatic...
Mia... I HAVE to be loving and direct... She's a "sister" who has attended the school of hard knocks with the rest of us and I think maybe her way is the only way she can cope. We've been talking here about the ways we find our peace with what has happened to us... It's inevitable that some of us are gonna "bicker" but compared to what so many of us have been through, it reminds me of arguments with one of my biological sisters...
Keep watching cuz the next thing you know, my Saskatchewan sister 'n I are gonna talk about the beautiful harvest moons that only Saskatchewan has (I was born just north of where she is..) and maybe even, go slop the hogs together...
As for that "other" thread Jivana, take the high road my friend. The POF forums are only "hills worthy of dying on" if we STILL think it's okay to be roughed up, my girl... You know where I'm going with this, dontcha???
 Jivana
Hmmm...an interesting concept. So taking this suggestion literally, the bandaid solution for wounds in need of major surgery is to dismiss a valid and viable human emotion. Interesting - yet here is the problem with repressed anger. It erupts destructively eventually in some manner. Anger in and of itself is not an unhealthy emotion. HOW it is expressed is what defines whether it is productive or destructive. Reactivity is a form of anger seeping out. Plus, for someone who purports freedom to not be carrying any of the residual negative feelings, there surely is reactivity to any disagreement with her position.
Well said Angelheart... It was my unexpected and agonizing bouts with rage that finally drove this lil sadsack into trauma therapy. I also denied my need to look inside myself for a very long time but as soon as I was far enough away from him and finally safe, it started "leaking" out, despite my best efforts to contain it. I understand how a person wants to just get up and go on as tho' nothing has changed. Sometimes, it feels like they won after all when we have to admit that we have some repair work to do.
Your posts are truly thought-provoking and meaningful Angelheart. I admire your insights. I hope you'll keep shining the light for the lost to follow...
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/16/2008 7:29:33 PM |
I understand how a person wants to just get up and go on as tho' nothing has changed.
Even that is part of the process of healing. The challenge is not staying stuck there. Part of what puts one into a position of "victim" (as adults I mean, as my position on child victims is much different) is the "feels so right and good, therefore it must be right and good" only to wake up one day in the midst of nightmare (almost as bad as that on Elm Street absent Freddy) wondering what on earth happened and how on earth we ended up there.
Yet, one can only teach the teachable. We tend to repeat mistakes until we learn the lessons specific to us as individuals so we can have better lives based on reality, not fairy tales and wishful thinking.
To my way of thinking, generally speaking, as long as we are focusing blame on the abuser, we are still engaging emotionally with that abuser. There is nothing in blaming that holds that abuser accountable, yet plenty about that blaming that distracts us from fixing who we can fix - ourselves.
On the anger aspect, by golly anyone abuses me I sure am going to be angry about it. Only I'll use that anger to propel me to look at me and what I could have seen differently so that next time, I make a better choice to start with. Besides, it's a principle. Generally speaking, when one hides from or avoids feeling anger when they have every right to be angry at being treated badly - they in concept become like a pressure cooker with the steam building higher and higher. Eventually someone in that situation will erupt in destructive ways, either towards someone else or themselves. So, in that context, how does that make a person in that scenario any better than the abuser? It doesn't.
Thanks, Silken Fire. I just call it the way I see it. Must be the "veteran" in me.
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/16/2008 7:44:36 PM |
Anger takes up so much energy that deciding to not be angry about it, is far more productive than carrying any of the residual negative feelings into a new and better life without the abuser.
Geez O Pete! Wish I had known that when I was 10! If only I'd known to "decide" how to feel! If only I'd known what was "far more productive"! If only I'd known the secret!
Just think, I could've just sat playing with my dolls and "choosing" to live a better life, instead of sitting under a massive black hole that felt as big as the whole damn world, scared to death of what was gonna happen next!
Wow...no wonder it all went so wrong! I simply made the wrong choice when I got angry at him and stopped trusting adults to keep me safe! | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/16/2008 7:52:27 PM | Funny_Girl - I wish you could have been spared that black hole. No child should ever find themselves having to go there just to feel safe from the very adults who are supposed to provide safety.
You survived and don't let anyone diminish your experiences as a child to a " simple wrong choice" when you know (and many of us know) you had NO good choices to pick from except to survive the best you could.
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/16/2008 8:15:24 PM | Funny Girl..the word Survivor is specifically coined for people like you. Any child who can come through the darkness to become a contributing adult to our society deserves the title. I have read and enjoy your posts so I know how deserving you are.
Having been raped at 6 and sodomized at 11 I understand the darkness. I am proud to consider myself a survivor also. More importantly I am humbled to have helped others get there through my work. Hugs to you my friend.........................And to all others who have come from the darkness into the light..................It is not an easy journey , and athough there will always be twists and turns on the path, strength will always get us back to where we need to be.
Just an an alcoholic in recovery, who will always have to resist the temptation to take a drink......we must resist the temptation to revisit that dark place and that deep anger. I for one , have refused for a long time to give my abusers one more minute of control over my life........
PEACE | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/16/2008 9:11:16 PM | To my way of thinking, generally speaking, as long as we are focusing blame on the abuser, we are still engaging emotionally with that abuser. There is nothing in blaming that holds that abuser accountable, yet plenty about that blaming that distracts us from fixing who we can fix - ourselves.
I've given this very issue a great deal of thought in the past few months because no matter what I did, he stayed right there, in the forefront of every thought I had. They weren't necessarily angry thoughts and then I REALLY wondered if he'd broken something in my sanity I was gonna hafta find the Krazy Glue for. I was much relieved to actually be able to draw a straight line between the dots when my therapist explained that these are the flashbacks of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. The same epiphany shot through me when I realized that there are so many ways to stay "stuck" - frozen in the headlights. That's how being unable to forgive "feels" to me...
On the anger aspect, by golly anyone abuses me I sure am going to be angry about it. Only I'll use that anger to propel me to look at me and what I could have seen differently so that next time, I make a better choice to start with. Besides, it's a principle. Generally speaking, when one hides from or avoids feeling anger when they have every right to be angry at being treated badly - they in concept become like a pressure cooker with the steam building higher and higher. Eventually someone in that situation will erupt in destructive ways, either towards someone else or themselves. So, in that context, how does that make a person in that scenario any better than the abuser? It doesn't.
Exactly.. it sure doesn't. Altho' I have to say that there are a lot of times when their way seems a whole lot less painful than ours. Not long ago, my boss (a lawyer.. go figger) said to me, "Compassionate, caring people carry a heavy burden in life." You can't argue that because it's true. And empty, sociopathic abusers carry nothing. I think there are many that come away from a relationship with an abuser wishing on some levels they could "not give a damn" the way he (or she) did and they'll even take a stab at emulating that lack of caring while at the same time, they miss the person inside themselves who used to care and feel good about it.
Geez O Pete! Wish I had known that when I was 10! If only I'd known to "decide" how to feel! If only I'd known what was "far more productive"! If only I'd known the secret!
Just think, I could've just sat playing with my dolls and "choosing" to live a better life, instead of sitting under a massive black hole that felt as big as the whole damn world, scared to death of what was gonna happen next!
Wow...no wonder it all went so wrong! I simply made the wrong choice when I got angry at him and stopped trusting adults to keep me safe!
That's an exceptional point FG! We didn't exactly have Ph D's back then, did we? I can't even wax philosophical about this... It just pains me so much to think of what such tiny girls have gone through that I can't even get logical. Not at that point in my therapy yet... but I got a pocket full of hugs for you...
After reading these posts: Catabrie, Lonestardaddy, Funny Girl, Sweetjemgirl, Miashakti, Felanie's, Galonthemt, AngelHeart... and so many others in this thread and these forums, I am more firmly convinced than ever that it's critical to our own survival to forgive not just them but ourselves... Whether it's a single-step jump or a multi-step process, I think we deserve that relief. Dammitall anyway!!!
FunnyGirl... I've listened to Sugarland's "Stand Back Up" and I love it! That was quite the gift you gave me and I thank you... from my heart to yours... | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/17/2008 1:45:33 AM | [There it is in a nutshell folks! I do think tho' that it isn't necessarily insecurities that allow an abusive person to come into someone's life. Many, many abusers use the compassion and a person's ability to try to see the best in someone as their leverage to get into someone's life. The majority of us were raised to have compassion for others. We were taught to look for the good things about a person. We were told that it wasn't "nice" to be judgmental. These are not "insecurities" but the ingredients of humanity and kindness that our parents attempted to incorporate into our systems. The final lesson in these things should have been in how to balance these humanitarian feelings with common sense but many of us didn't get that final lesson.]
I couldn't agree more. I don't think most in an abusive relationship were necessarily weak or insecure when it began, rather kind, trusting, caring, compassionate.
Something I discovered is that a seemingly logical (at the time) reason for staying, and giving yet another chance, is that if promises are kept and changes are made it would justify the belief and trust that was given. It would reaffirm our belief in our own judgement which I would guess most felt to be quite sound prior to the abuse. | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/17/2008 4:32:42 AM | "Compassionate, caring people carry a heavy burden in life."
It all depends on how you look at it. Carrying buckets of sand is a heavy burden. Carrying buckets of water is a blessing even though they're heavy.
And empty, sociopathic abusers carry nothing. Here I would debate the point of feeling nothing. They don't appear to feel remorse, love, empathy for sure. Yet interfere or obstruct whatever they have set their sights on and they leave no question that they feel something about it. They certainly covet - another feeling.
I am more firmly convinced than ever that it's critical to our own survival to forgive not just them but ourselves...
Elaborating on that as child abuse did come up. Crucial to a child's survival of child abuse is whatever strategy the child had to find to survive. However, there's a double-bind in that once the child transitions into adulthood, those same strategies are still there and do impact on future relationships. Even though those strategies are not valid in adulthood. I still question whether self-forgiveness is a valid "step", rather self-acceptance the more valid process.
Whatever "messages" we were taught about ourselves, devalued ourselves in our own perceptions, regardless of when that began (although it fairly consistently appears to begin in childhood). Those "messages" left some of us feeling like we are terrible people and therefore less deserving. We non-verbally project out that vulnerability and voila - enter the romantic relationship abuser. More often than not, we ignore what most would consider red flags as the familiarity of the dynamics ironically are confused with love when it has nothing to do with love yet a lot to do with simply belonging somewhere. Only we have been taught that love and pain we endured as a child (in the abusive context) were synonymous - when in fact they are anything but synonymous.
Another aspect of the need for self-forgiveness that disturbs me and let's go the uncomfortable direction of what in my opinion is the most heinous of all child abuses - incest. By design, the human body feels pleasure when certain areas are stimulated - children are humans with the same sensations even though somewhere inside they sense something about the act (let's limit it to touching here) feels yucky. Yet it can't be yucky and feel good at the same time. Meanwhile, beyond the scope of the abusing parent's words, actions and such, the child is conflicted by virtue of the act itself. Caught between that yucky feeling that something is wrong, feeling guilty for his/her body responding even if only for a second and so on. What should that person forgive themselves for? Being human? In that situation, the child has zero accountability and ergot nothing to forgive themselves for as adults when these memories begin to surface.
The PTSD is valid, Silken Fire, and gets compounded when one further survives an adult abusive relationship. It's a multi-step process that takes as long as it takes.
One of my favourite poems of all pretty much sums up recovery from abuse better than I ever could. Although I posted it on another abuse thread, I'll put it here as well.
I AM ME
In all the world, there is no one else exactly like me
Everything that comes out of me is authentically me
Because I alone chose it - I own everything about me
My body,
My feelings,
My mouth,
My voice,
All my actions,
Whether they be to others or to myself -
I own my fantasies,
My dreams,
My hopes,
My fears -
I own all my triumphs and successes,
All my failures and mistakes
Because I own all of me, I can become intimately acquainted with me -
By so doing I can love me and be friendly with me in all my parts -
I know there are aspects about myself that puzzle me,
And other aspects that I do not know -
But as long as I am friendly and loving to myself,
I can courageously and hopefully look for solutions to the puzzles
And for ways to find out more about me -
However I look and sound,
Whatever I say and do,
And whatever I think and feel at a given moment in time
Is authentically Me -
If later some parts of how I looked,
Sounded,
Thought
And felt
Turn out to be unfitting,
I can discard that which is unfitting,
Keep the rest,
And invent something new for that which I discarded -
I can see,
Hear,
Feel,
Think,
Say,
And do
I have the tools to survive,
To be close to others,
To be productive
To make sense and order out of the world
Of people and things outside of me -
I own me,
And therefore I can engineer me -
I am me and
I AM OKAY
Reportedly written by Virginia Satir in 1975 | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/17/2008 4:44:48 AM | I was'nt in a abusive relationship. I do know quite a few that have and after talking and listening I have come up with 1 sure fire way to fix it. He has to sleep when he does tie him down and get a cast Iron pan and give Pay back. I know there are going to be a lot of people that say I'm wrong and a few other things to. But what it comes down to its not your falt you should'nt have to go through it. Now BEAT HIM DOWN LIKE THE DOG HE IS Or set his ASS ON FIRE like the movie Burning Bed. | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/17/2008 4:55:59 AM |
He has to sleep when he does tie him down and get a cast Iron pan and give Pay back.
Now what does that solve? Far better to slip out the door when he is sleeping and never look back. Why let an abuser bring one down to his level? Granted, there are situations that warrant the victim defending herself to the extreme, but those ironically are the exceptions - not the general rule. Not diminishing anyone's individual circumstances by that statement either.
Best way to give a real Pay Back is to make and enjoy a better life without the abuser. They can't stand it as it reveals them to be the gutless cowards they truly are. Sort of like an "in your face" to the abuser.  | |
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