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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/17/2008 7:49:49 AM |
u have to forgive yourself, because you was being abused?
That was my question... why do you feel the need to forgive yourself when you did nothing wrong? The abuser will make you THINK you did something wrong, thus convincing you that you deserved to be abused. But THAT is the issue you need to deal with - you need to deal with the abuser having brainwashed you into thinking you are worthless. And that's a self esteem issue, not a forgiveness issue. | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/17/2008 8:13:24 AM | OP wrote some great stuff! I think it's the confusion that has to be worked out. And, depending on when in your life, how long, and by whom (how much you trusted the abuser, what role they played in your life view)....you need to reprogram so many messages. If they alienated you from others, or from self, if you subconsciously absorbed their definition of you (and that piggy-backed onto other destructive messages)...the message "you're bad" or "you're broken" or "you're different"...many folks (self, family members, "friends") are unaware of alternatives or how deeply rooted such messages may be.
The Bible is full of God's message of love, forgiveness, reconciliation. But it's also full of condemnation, death, treachery, evil spirits, and the darkness and wileyness of Satan--of fleeing, of courage and false courage--and a big fat chance the reader my identify with the bad/lost rather than the redeeming aspects. How do you get a message of hope INTO someone who has taken on the destructive messages of family or spouse?
Gotta own the goodness in you. Gotta own your potential to choose. One may argue, "How can I do any good in MY situation?" ...and I'd say you need to find ways to connect to the positive, that are reachable--one step at a time--and to allow the negative messages (the innumerable nuances that "reaffirm" negative worth) to surface so you can consciously CONFRONT them (internally) and RESPOND to them with a different choice other than acceptance.
Something bad happened and "truth or lie" can be obvious to someone outside, but not to the one who is stuck in the lie. | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/17/2008 8:44:31 AM | Rule Number One - if anyone is hitting, punching, kicking, etc..the other party in a relationship, it has past the point of being a good or saveable relationship. GET THE FAWK OUT!
Rule Number Two - if you are the punchee, file charges, mostly so others will be warned of said abuser's actions even if he/she gets off in court. Chances are they're gonna fry him/her, tho.
Rule Number Three - if you don't want to file charges, do what many other people have done, wait until the abuser goes to sleep, and then get the biggets iron skillet you have (preferrably the 14"+ one that weighs twenty pounds) tie the mofo in the bed and start beating the crap outta his face & head first, then work your way down. When the cops show up this time, they'll likely take you both. But at least it'll underline the seriousness of what's going on.
Rule Number Four - if you don't have the intestinal fortitude or strength to clobber said abuser...get a friend to do it for you. Most of your friends already know what's going on and start avoiding you if you let abuse go on for awhile (because they can't stand to see you hurt)...but most of the male friends are more than happy to break the abuser's arms at the elbow so he/she can't even wipe their own arses. This tends to bring daylight into most abusers minds after 6 weeks of not being able to do squat. if it doesn't...then there is...
Rule number Five - if you are spending time in the hospital because of abuse, you need to go ahead and off the mofo or get the heck outta there. Because it's either you or them. Grow some guts, join up with the Battered Women's shelter, have 'em help you grab the kid (kids, if any) & run. Or just shoot 'em. Make sure you've had the abuse logged somewhere with pictures of the damage with someone you can trust (preferrably medical records) and you will likely get off scot-free.
Remember, abusers do it not just to you, but every man/woman after you. And let's face it, if one doesn't leave under their own power, they'll leave in a body bag. yeah, it sucks to have to drop everything & start over, but it's better than being dead. There are too many programs out there for anyone to put up with abusive bastiches...not to mention too many other fish in the sea that will treat you with the proper respect.
Fair Warning...dating a heavily drinking redneck is dangerous, especially if they are from Ark, Ala, Geo, Ken, or Miss. Southern Gentlemen are generally OK. Make sure you can tell the difference between the two.
If it's come to blows, it's gone too far. Stop there and GO. No apology will ever be able to cover the amount of abuse that will happen next. | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/17/2008 9:00:06 AM | | i have nothing to forgive myself for ...im proud that my children and my self escaped and are now free of the monster .....26 yrs of abuse ,he even made pornagraphic material of my children ....that was was the final thing which made me so strong to fight back .....the police were involved ...when he was interviewed by them and they asked him why he did it .he said thats how he deals with people he hates .....pure evil .....to recover and move on my daughters and myself were strong and love and care for others ....he cant hurt us no more ....the best revenge we have a wonderful life we are happy ....AND WE HAVE GOT NOTHING TO FORGIVE OURSELVES FOR .... | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/17/2008 9:02:34 AM | If the abuser is your son you need to try to get them in an anger management program, counseling might be recommended for you both....if he wont go file charges..........just like with a child who is a drug addict you dont stick your head in the sand till someone is dead.
Sometimes we must take the hard road in life..........I have a grandnephew, 19 just got out of prison because his mother wouldnt face the problem.........she did everything but was right...even threw him out but still enabled him........he OD'd 4 times, stole from e1 in his family to get his drugs........started getting violent...and then the kicker ....armed robbery.........he is now in a halfway house receiving extensive treatment....I pray it isnt too late for him....he may never talk to those of us who pushed for his incarseration but he is alive and I am at peace knowing if he stays off the drugs and in counseling he will one day see we did what needed to be done to save him. We have all forgiven him and have asked for his forgivness in return. He isnt ready to do that, and thats ok. | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/17/2008 9:03:04 AM | Posted By: btj_rv on 6/12/2008 3 21 PM
Subject: The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being AbusedOP, I think there is a lot more to it than forgiving for actions that occurred within a relationship. I really think that a lot of people who find themselves in the same kind of relationships gravitate toward them subconsciously because it is all they know.
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What a load of rubbish that statement is: I once was in an abusive relationship, and when it ended by me ringing the police and saying there is going to be a murder, the policewoman patronized me on the phone and said 'oh for goodness sake calm yourself woman, he wont kill you, he will pass out soon' Something clicked and I replied "No hunni, not my death his" there were blue lights flashing outside and he was gone, for his protection. But it got the job done he was gone.
Then two years later met another man, so laid the cards on the table, three strikes and you are out, it was calm it was cool, but little did I know I meant it more than I knew.
1. Caught him out lying, ended up trapped my legs with a heavy mahogany coffee table, I looked up at his angry face and said "Strike One". He stormed out of my flat.
2. Caught him lying and cheating with money, he attacked me, when a friend got in the way, he smashed his head against the wall, the friend got in the way again and got me out of there. He rang me and the first thing I said was "Strike 2". He did not respond apart from begging me to come back he was sorry.
Ten years pass without an argument, he was dating younger girls, going to night clubs, gambling his wages away, lying his head off most of the time - maybe it was my fault, maybe I should have done something, I really dont know or care.
3. We went to a ball, a stunning couple in black and white, both blond, but this strange mood over took the evening, he behaved like a an animal, by 04:30 am I had, had enough of this and started to walk home alone, he crept up behind me in a dark lane, Strike 3.
Forgive him never! Do I want to, NO, Will I try to ever, NO, God pays his debts without money - which means what you do to others comes back on your three fold in your life.
There is no need ever to touch another in anger or chastise someone else for your shortfall in life, he had three chances he used them all, he apparently has learned from his mistakes so he tells the gossips, he will never hit another woman ever - like he did me and the two women before me, of course he wont.
PS the new young girl has been to my home, wanted to chat about his not paying her the money she lent him, (she actually thought she could ask me for the money, she thought I might still pay his debts for him) I laughed and told her get used to it or get out now, she said she cant she loves him - I laughed gently and said well get used to a life without money and quietly closed my door on her worried face - her house is on the open market they have been together eighteen months, O U C H !! | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/17/2008 9:06:30 AM | Posted By: greeneyes269 on 6/17/2008 12 48 PM
Subject: The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Message: I was'nt in a abusive relationship. I do know quite a few that have and after talking and listening I have come up with 1 sure fire way to fix it. He has to sleep when he does tie him down and get a cast Iron pan and give Pay back. I know there are going to be a lot of people that say I'm wrong and a few other things to. But what it comes down to its not your falt you should'nt have to go through it. Now BEAT HIM DOWN LIKE THE DOG HE IS Or set his ASS ON FIRE like the movie Burning Bed.
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Now that post had me laughing, my head thrown back really laughing.
Big (HUGS) you are a very nice man XX | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/17/2008 9:56:12 AM |
What's a mother to do?
You do the best you can do with the choices you have. Have you heard of the story of the two woman in front of the judge each pulling at the child claiming to be the child's real mother? The judge suggested why not split the child in two, each woman taking half of the child. Needless to say, the real mother let go, rather than see her child torn in two.
Sometimes, that's all we can do at the end of the day. You're in a very tough spot with your oldest and really all you can do about that is what you know to be in his best interests. Within the limitations imposed on you, build what relationship you can with your son in whatever manner you can - as it is a separate relationship that is yours and his alone. If he chooses no contact with you, remember his birthdays and holidays anyway. When he asks questions of you, answer at a level appropriate to his age, giving him the objective truth.
You're in a tough spot and there are no right or wrong answers to your question beyond what your own heart tells you is in his best interests. Eventually, he'll figure it out on his own anyway. Kids are anything but dumb. He'll have his time of acting out behaviorally.
Most of all - although it sounds selfish, your first duty of care is take care of your health (either physical, mental or emotional) and your second is to your children. It's of no value to your children when you put yourself in harm's way as, if anything did happen to you, you won't be there for him when he does reach out to you one day. He will one day. In his time. | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/17/2008 1:28:46 PM | Mia - here is the hidden blessing in your decision:
But they were raised by a man who has always been at war with his own mother, and I knew that by leaving them at 9 and 11 they were going to receive his conditioning, and not what I would have preferred for them.
Had you gone to war with the ex, your children would not have had a fighting chance. You taught them an invaluable life lesson by putting their best interests ahead of your wants.
The impact of which is evidenced right here:
And they have grown into decent people, for the most part.
You just keep loving them where they are, as they are.
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/17/2008 2:21:57 PM |
Geez O Pete! Wish I had known that when I was 10! If only I'd known to "decide" how to feel! If only I'd known what was "far more productive"! If only I'd known the secret!
Just think, I could've just sat playing with my dolls and "choosing" to live a better life, instead of sitting under a massive black hole that felt as big as the whole damn world, scared to death of what was gonna happen next!
You had five years longer to wait than I did ... a child is at the mercy of her abuser.. and it's a shame that so many children go through it, and not know who she/he can turn to. Those children still grow up and become adults, and they can take control.
Don't tell me that there was no jumping on the bandwagon either Silken.. someone gets one rolling and they can lose control when too many people get on ..
I have very carefully read the posts.. I don't post unless I do.. as you should well know FG.. It takes a long time to get to a point after being abused, where a person can say "F it, I am not wasting my time feeling negative, and feeling that I had any control over what happened" The whole question is... "Why would self-forgiveness be needed?"
Yes there is bitterness, anger, hurt, betrayal, denial, sadness, .. hell I could go on and on about the rash of emotion that comes with abuse, and after..
The only person that really has control is YOU. Control over your feelings, control over what you say, you can eat that damn cookie if you want.. who is going to stop you?
So the point is, What did YOU do to get over it? To move on? To eat that cookie despite your abuse.. wasn't that the original question? How do you forgive yourself?
I simply said.. why would you need to forgive yourself.. it wasn't your fault.... | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/17/2008 2:40:48 PM | There is a truth to the title of the forum. Yes you do need to forgive your self for staying as long as you did. I know this might offend some. But think about it. It is in the back of your mind why did I stay? None of it was your falt you do need to relize it and you should forgive your self for staying as long as you did. Maybe his brakes will go out on a step hill near a cliff. But The main thing to rember is its not your Falt. Good Luck Take Care | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/17/2008 2:50:58 PM | Felanie - who are you to define what is right for anyone but you, whether it be timing, self-forgiveness, or any other matter pertinent to someone else's healing? What I find disturbing about your posts more than the content is the cavalier and dismissive manner in which what you say is presented. More along the lines of "methinks you protest a bit too much" about your choice to not feel anger. I hope at the end of the day that your life continues as happy as you perceive it to be. While a lot of what you technically state in your posts is valid in varying degrees, it doesn't come across as though you really believe it to be true.
Who are you trying to convince?
The OP?
The sum of all the posters to varying degrees?
Or yourself? | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/17/2008 2:52:09 PM | Felanie, I only have time right now for the short answers cause I gotta cook dinner, lol, but I really think the short answers say it all, anyway. And really, you answered the questions in your own post.
Yes there is bitterness, anger, hurt, betrayal, denial, sadness, .. hell I could go on and on about the rash of emotion that comes with abuse, and after..
That's why. All those emotions are real and they're destructive. They don't exist in a bubble and they're a poison. They influence us, shape us, drive us; they color all our interactions. Toss in a lack of coping skills and it's easy to see just how destructive all those emotions might be.
We don't seek to forgive ourselves for what was done to us by our abuser--though blame follows naturally cause one might wonder what they did or what was so bad about them to deserve such horrific treatment. We seek to forgive ourselves for the destruction that followed; of ourselves, our loved ones, strangers in our paths, and on and on. We might find it important to forgive ourselves for not handling it well. For not having the right answers, the right attitude, etc. There's lots we have to own, to account for...and sometimes, we even feel badly for being angry at our abuser, especially when they're someone you love/d. That causes a heap of emotion and really, it all just bleeds into and all over all the rest. You cannot suffer abuse in a vacuum.
My time's up...sorry! | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/17/2008 3:26:26 PM | Felanie....What you fail to realize, I think is when you feel the anger, bitterness et al......it carries over into every aspect of your life.....you may think it doesnt but your posts belie that fact....you speak very well and I do enjoy your posts......but as has already been brought up, you seem to fail to see any view but your own.
If you fail to see that perhaps, you need to forgive yourself for what your anger or bitterness has done to others and even yourself I'm sorry for that. Anger deludes people into thinking they have control when in fact they dont.....they continue to give it to the abuser.
When one has been bitter and angry they beat themselves up as thats who the anger hurts...........and carries over to those closest to you..........thats where self forgivness comes in....I'm really sorry you cant see that fact, maybe one day you will.
forgive yourself for hurting YOU........................... | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/17/2008 6:36:42 PM |
Something I discovered is that a seemingly logical (at the time) reason for staying, and giving yet another chance, is that if promises are kept and changes are made it would justify the belief and trust that was given. It would reaffirm our belief in our own judgement which I would guess most felt to be quite sound prior to the abuse.
This lil nugget sure jumped up 'n bit me tonight. You're saying that one of the reasons people might be driven to return to their abusers is to not have to experience loss of faith in their own judgment? That would still denote a rather shaky hold on one's self-esteem to begin with, wouldn't it? If we return to affirm our belief in our own judgment by remaining hopeful that Round 10 will work out better than rounds 1 through 9 to avoid thinking something is wrong with our judgment, it would still seem that we would be looking around on the outside for the self-esteem that can only come from the inside. An awesome point to chew over Whatif...
Now BEAT HIM DOWN LIKE THE DOG HE IS Or set his ASS ON FIRE like the movie Burning Bed.
LOL Greeneyes269... I don't think there are too many of us who can truthfully say we haven't fantasized about that somewhere along the way... Fantasy is an awesome thing when it will let you "play" one of those revenge movies as a way of blowing off steam but to actually do it? Nah... then there'd be no difference between us and them...
the abusers suffer too, immensely...and they have souls and are struggling to find their way. I believe in being compassionate, and I believe in learning how to protect myself from any and all abuse, even my own, and to rise like the Phoenix from the ashes of a huge life lesson.
While I love your compassion Miashakti, I have to differ with your view... Maybe the run-of-the-mill abuser who simply has control issues (Did I just say that???) actually suffers when they realize what they've done, but the narcissists and psychopaths only suffer when there's no one in the immediate vicinity to provide their narcissistic supplies. (Sadly, there ALWAYS seems to be some poor compassionate soul who is desperate enough to let themselves be rushed into a full-fledged relationship with these shape-shifters so even the supply doesn't run too terribly low). Sociopathic people can change wives, husbands, entire families... without so much as a backward blink at the devastation they've left behind.
That was my question... why do you feel the need to forgive yourself when you did nothing wrong?
As I just said above, many of us allow ourselves to be rushed into something when we're old enough to know better but perhaps out of touch with the world. Many of us have far more compassion for the abuser than we have for ourselves. Many of us consider ourselves strong enough to forgive a few transgressions. Many of us attracted this person and by doing so, put our friends and families at risk for being harmed. Many of us actually fell in love with the person the abuser "appeared to be"... I could go on and on about the parts and pieces that end up being one of the stumbling blocks to healing but suffice to say, taking responsibility isn't solely about whether or not we did something wrong.
Don't tell me that there was no jumping on the bandwagon either Silken.. someone gets one rolling and they can lose control when too many people get on ..
Okay Felanie... You got me. I confess. I give up. You're right. I posted this thread without paying attention to the fact that it might tip over if too many people climbed onto one side of it.
Now.. can we be friends??? | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/17/2008 11:25:24 PM | Silkenfier on 6/11/2008 7 34 AM wrote:
abusers (bullies) choose people they will target. They don't target the weak or the feeble-minded. They go after the strong people who have it within them to be compassionate. This REALLY made me think when she (Rune3) posted it and it made so much sense!
Abusers rely on their victim's ability to be compassionate toward others. Part of the cycle is for them to be able to express remorse in such a way that they can be forgiven. If they chose people who were detached and could easily kick them to the curb, they wouldn't be able to come and go or have the power that they do.
The target was my compassion which in normal life, is a strength...not a weakness. /quote]
I am (still) sorting through the dissonance of the compassion one shows--MUST show--to a severely handicapped sibling vs. a pedophilic grandparent who was viewed as a "standard of goodness"--and the messages of family members who discount, fail to comprehend, or resent the inconvenience of these truths. Forgiveness vs. voluntary ownership of someone else's mess. And that dissonance is palpable--by abusers, abused, and "functional" society...but for vastly different reasons. Conformance has always been offensive (because it seems "too" convenient); non-conformance has always been counterproductive. Can someone speak to this? | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/17/2008 11:53:07 PM | Silkenfire in 107 wrote...a buncha quotes:
Something I discovered is that a seemingly logical (at the time) reason for staying, and giving yet another chance, is that if promises are kept and changes are made it would justify the belief and trust that was given. It would reaffirm our belief in our own judgement which I would guess most felt to be quite sound prior to the abuse.
The convoluted logic alluded to here is what kept me in "dead end" relationships since I was 17 or 18...I was grappling with the inner "emergency" valve/sensor...trying to make it "behave" with the same parameters that set others off, and trying to ignore my inner sense of peril/distrust.
This lil nugget sure jumped up 'n bit me tonight. You're saying that one of the reasons people might be driven to return to their abusers is to not have to experience loss of faith in their own judgment? That would still denote a rather shaky hold on one's self-esteem to begin with, wouldn't it? If we return to affirm our belief in our own judgment by remaining hopeful that Round 10 will work out better than rounds 1 through 9 ...
This belongs on some psychology support site, not a dating site...but let me say...my sister's first marriage was to a drug dealer who propositioned me...even before their wedding. 13 years into that marriage, my own sister was propositioning me to be involved with her husband. Eeeew. Sounds awful. It's the truth. And yet, when I questioned the "taste" of such a proposition (let alone any social mores)--*I* was condemned as being judgmental??? I'm really sorta alienated from that "working structure" of my family. Yet it is a perfect example of my previous response to SilkenFire's post...how perpetrators choose (selectively) their victims. I REALLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND.
However, I do identify with this:
the abusers suffer too, immensely...and they have souls and are struggling to find their way. I believe in being compassionate, and I believe in learning how to protect myself from any and all abuse... because I still seem to be contending with those who have debilitating control issues. (I'm merely OBSERVING this phenomenon, and perhaps marveling at it, too) . Silken fire goes on to say:
... actually suffers when they realize what they've done, but the narcissists and psychopaths only suffer when there's no one in the immediate vicinity to provide their narcissistic supplies.
So this is telling me that certain individuals in my own family--and certain individuals I "find attractive" are in fact chronic narcissists. (This is news to me, but it seems to fit the MO, too.)
...Sociopathic people can change wives, husbands, entire families... without so much as a backward blink at the devastation they've left behind.
That sounds VERY much like one of my siblings, my mother, and many of the 'long term' relationships I've been in (committed to)! | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/18/2008 12:20:48 AM | | I agree that forgiveness is important to our own healing. However, sometimes it's very difficult to go from Point A (abuse) to Point C (forgiveness). Many people who have been in ongoing abusive relationships are depressed. Part of this is repressed anger, whether it is turned inward or outward. It's very important to feel and acknowledge the anger. You cannot go directly to the forgiveness stage without allowing yourself to be really angry. The trick is not to dwell in the anger. Once you feel it, there are techniques you can use to release it. I have dealt with this a lot in my life, and I use breathing techniques to release the anger. I used to be a very angry person, but over time, this has faded. The techniques do work, and I have come to a great deal of peace with people who have hurt me in the past. You really have to desire peace of mind as your ultimate goal. You need to want it more than you want revenge. If you seek peace very deliberately, you may find it happening when you least expect it. | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/18/2008 4:07:34 AM | yoodles in 109 said:
So this is telling me that certain individuals in my own family--and certain individuals I "find attractive" are in fact chronic narcissists. (This is news to me, but it seems to fit the MO, too.)
referencing 107's statement: "... actually suffers when they realize what they've done, but the narcissists and psychopaths only suffer when there's no one in the immediate vicinity to provide their narcissistic supplies."
A general statement relevant to the poster's observation or opinion is hardly rendering a psychiatric diagnosis on anyone in your family, yoodles. | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/18/2008 12:13:08 PM | LOL..
For those who are bent out of shape over what my opinion is; get over it, it's only my opinion and it shouldn't matter what I say anyways.. The forums are for people's opinions, I wasn't insulting anyone, wasn't calling names, and certainly didn't intend to rile anyone up... *shrug*
Silken, I am not upset over what your opinion is, I respect what you say, and find some common sense in it as well... for someone who hasn't gotten over their abuse, it really might push them towards the realisation that they are not at fault, and for those that need to forgive themself, may help them to find that inner peace. Never thought we couldn't be 'friends' *smile*
FG, Do you need a hug?? *wink* - you don't usually get sarcastic with other posters unless they said something stupid.. didn't think what I posted was stupid...
Abuse is a volatile topic, regardless of the type of abuse, so for those who get their backs up, this may not be the thread for you, for those who can sit down and respect what other people have to say about the subject and add their own two cents without being belligerent, good for you, I look forward to what you have to say.
Last post on this subject for me.. I must weed the garden.. *sigh*..
good day | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/18/2008 12:39:38 PM | I tend to believe that people who find it difficult to leave an abusive relationship - and keep returning to them - are often people who are 'over-responsible'.
They may have had a childhood where they took responsibility for others or got their sense of satisfaction from overcoming difficult situations and came to believe these were 'normal' situations to be in. In other words, they get their sense of self from 'doing the right thing' and supporting others to the point that's what they believe their role in life is.
The problem occurs when the people they support pass the responsibility for the whole releationship to them while they do whatever irresponsible thing comes into their heads.
If the irresponsible partner has affairs etc the responsible partner is made responsible for it. If the irresponsible partner becomes violent or aggressive or undermining the responsible partner is responsible for that too. The 'abused' partner is the sponge in the relationship for absorbing all the responsibilities of the relationship and then 'taking all the consequences'.
We call people who take all the responsibilities for the bad stuff 'scapegoats'.
The OP has hit on a very important point of the scapegoat mindset - the scapegoat believes they are responsible for the entire 'bad' relationship. So in this context 'forgiveness' is about taking your unconscious mind towards the reality that you're not actually at fault for the abusive parts of the relationship.
The overly-responsible have a problem in that they are so used to taking responsibility and 'paying the price', whether it be in terms of time or struggle, they refuse to accept when they are paying too high a price and regard not taking responsibility as a selfish failure on their part.
I don't believe that a lot of 'abused' people have low self-esteem, in fact I think they refuse to accept they are being hurt and refuse to accept themselves as 'victims'. I came across a 16 year old girl who's mother had died, who had moved in with her much older brother and her brother was continually abusing her (he would do such things as walk into her bedroom in the middle of the night and pull her nightgown off her and put it on himself because he was cold). This lady didn't have low self-esteem, she came out with the comment 'we just have to accept these things, life is tough like that'.
This chap was damaging her life but she thought it her role to put up with it and be the responsible one. I think abused people find it very difficult to accept they are being abused and that the reason they often have repressed rage towards their abusers is because they're actually being abused and won't accept it!
It isn't self-esteem issues that drives them, it's an unrealistic belief they can actually overcome the challenge presented and their hope level is too high.
All the time this is going on they are being unconsciously damaged.
'Forgiveness' comes after giving up on the adventure - and over a long period of time realising you could not actually achieve the 'wonderful turning of the snake' in regard to the abuser. It involves realising you didn't actually do anything to deserve the treatment and you could never have stopped the abuser from being abusive.
An understanding you were actually, and continue to be, powerless in regard to changing such people means you finally give up on the belief you were in overall charge and had responsibility for the situation. | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/18/2008 4:26:30 PM | Solarpanel wrote:
I tend to believe that people who find it difficult to leave an abusive relationship - and keep returning to them - are often people who are 'over-responsible'.
Actually, there is credibility to a degree in that perspective. Part of the "rescuer" role.
The problem occurs when the people they support pass the responsibility for the whole releationship to them while they do whatever irresponsible thing comes into their heads.
That's half of the problem. People can project all their own responsibilities onto someone else as often as they want - that doesn't mean the other person has to adopt those responsibilities as their own.
I don't believe that a lot of 'abused' people have low self-esteem,
I would quantify by changing "a lot" to "all" and here is why. True - it isn't always a low self-esteem issue. Not all black and white. Some love the attention (ironically) of being the loving martyr that does so much good in the community, suffering so much at this poor confused man who can't seem to hold a job (only an example, not direct experience).
Good post overall, Solarpanel, as well as valid observations. | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/18/2008 7:19:04 PM |
I tend to believe that people who find it difficult to leave an abusive relationship - and keep returning to them - are often people who are 'over-responsible'.
Although, I didn't "keep returning", I can say that "over-responsibility" is my middle name so you're right bang on with that Solar Panel. I was 40 by the time I was 6 in a home where the parent/child roles were generally reversed on every level. To even be visible, it was ALWAYS necessary to have "done" something worthy of a few moments of attention. With a mostly absent father and an overtired, lonely mother who also taught things like "never turn your back on your father.. no matter what he does" and "a good woman will live on orange crates with a man..." being her mantra, I see where I became a "human doing" instead of a "human being" very very early in life.
The problem occurs when the people they support pass the responsibility for the whole relationship to them while they do whatever irresponsible thing comes into their heads.
It isn't necessary for the abuser to pass responsibility for everything in the relationship onto his or her partner. All he or she has to do is simply fail to function and every obligation will become the abused's responsibility. The abuser isn't the only one to pile the joint responsibilities onto the abused's shoulders... Creditors, landlords.. anyone who is waiting for the abuser's promises to be fulfilled, will go after the one who is earning the wages... i.e. the "responsible" one. It's pretty hard to divorce one's self from the idea that we are responsible when there's a whole gang of angry people expecting the abused person to stand good for the promises they accepted from the abuser.
The OP has hit on a very important point of the scapegoat mindset - the scapegoat believes they are responsible for the entire 'bad' relationship. So in this context 'forgiveness' is about taking your unconscious mind towards the reality that you're not actually at fault for the abusive parts of the relationship.
This may be true for some but it certainly isn't my mindset. I am the black sheep in my family which means that I am not willing to transform into a goat... I can't even grow a decent beard! 
Seriously, I'm taking my unconscious mind towards the reality that I shoulda slammed hard binders on the guy that decided to make my life hell. Instead of being upset that he lost 60 lbs., was homeless and threatening suicide, I should have let the professionals deal with the situation. And I also need to wrap my brain-grippers over some of the more martyrish beliefs that Mama espoused.
I don't believe that a lot of 'abused' people have low self-esteem, in fact I think they refuse to accept they are being hurt and refuse to accept themselves as 'victims'.
It isn't self-esteem issues that drives them, it's an unrealistic belief they can actually overcome the challenge presented and their hope level is too high.
Both of the above statements are power-epiphanies... Whew SolarPanel.. You gotta quit reading my mail Bud...
'Forgiveness' comes after giving up on the adventure - and over a long period of time realising you could not actually achieve the 'wonderful turning of the snake' in regard to the abuser. It involves realising you didn't actually do anything to deserve the treatment and you could never have stopped the abuser from being abusive.
An understanding you were actually, and continue to be, powerless in regard to changing such people means you finally give up on the belief you were in overall charge and had responsibility for the situation.
Since time began, people have believed that love can move mountains. I continue to believe that where people actually have the ability to FEEL love and compassion for others, they can inspire change and break down some of the strongest walls. I think of recovering alcoholics and drug addicts who had the blessing of having someone who believed in them who came through Hell and managed to find themselves again. But the key ingredient is that the abusive person has to be able to FEEL and has to want to change.
My own need to forgive myself has to do with my refusal to listen to my gut-knows as time went along and I think one of the biggest steps I can take is to realize that I allowed my being a "human doing" to overtake my being a "human being". I REALLY need to forgive myself for that.
Your post carried some real triggers for me Solar Panel. I will take my wee dog for his nightly walk and check in on how I'm doing. Mebbe even sing a few bars of FG's "Stand Back Up"... God knows, it's time... Thank you so much! | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/18/2008 7:59:46 PM | with all due respect, why would you feel as if you have to forgive yourself after being abused? it's not your fault that you were either mentally or physically abused therefore you shouldn't feel guilt. the person that needs the forgiving is the one that caused the abuse towards you and or your children.
my 2nd stb ex husband was causing mental abuse towards my boys and i, there was nothing to forgive myself about. i am sorry that he was the immature one to cause such a deal that contributed to ending our marriage. i can forgive what he has done but i will not forget it.
my ex boyfriend of 2 years strangled me and broke my nose therefore causing physical abuse. do i need to forgive myself for the harm he caused me??? no i do not but i do have to forgive him for what he has done.
it's a sickness where one causes physical and or mental harm to their partner. it's also something that we as a person with a heart has to learn to forgive them for doing such a thing. it's like a catholic person going into the confessional and saying "forgive me father, for i have sinned.....", you're asking a higher power to find room for forgiveness therefore you should also forgive the person causing the harm and never yourself unless you were the one at fault for the person to cause you harm.
you have to:
1-forgive the person for what was done to you
2-walk away from the relationship feeling more at ease
3-keep in mind that you're the innocent one, there's no need for you to feel guilt therefore there's no need for you to need forgiveness
4-and the last thing is to smile with knowing in your heart that you were strong enough to do the first 3 things. | |
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| The Process of Forgiving Ourselves After Being Abused
Posted: 6/18/2008 8:11:21 PM |
with all due respect, why would you feel as if you have to forgive yourself after being abused?
Country.girl... It's only by suggesting that you read the thread that I can answer this question. The answer to your question will become very clear if you do... Before you do that though, I would say to you that if you are at peace in all ways (or even most ways), you may find this thread somewhat disturbing to that peace. | |
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