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| Girlfriend’s Kid by Artificial Insemination---No Dad was Wanted!!!
Posted: 6/12/2008 12:48:43 PM | | No I would never do this. Deliberately bringing a child into this world with no father is just plain wrong. Unlike what some people believe fathers are necessary. They are as necessary as mothers. It's a tragic thing when a child has no father , so why do this on purpose. It's extremely selfish. | |
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| Girlfriend’s Kid by Artificial Insemination---No Dad was Wanted!!!
Posted: 6/12/2008 12:58:19 PM |
I'm hoping this is a syntax error and that you don't mean that I would create a child that would grow up in a broken home
It isn’t any more of a syntax error than your implication that me wanting a child is selfish is a syntax error. I’m sure you didn’t set out for this to occur (growing up in a broken home), but it did. You could not guarantee that kind of stability for your child. So even though, my child will not ever know his/her biological child, I can guarantee that he/she will never have to experience the pain of watching his/her parents divorce.
I'm just saying that these are normal occurrences, whereas AI isn't.
So in your belief an accident is more valuable than a plan? | |
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| Girlfriend’s Kid by Artificial Insemination---No Dad was Wanted!!!
Posted: 6/12/2008 1:02:34 PM | Just thought Id repost this little diamond for all the people out there dont practice what they preach.
by Kaylie
I'm gonna say this ONE more time in case someone out there actually reads the other posts first... (and yes, I have a child by adoption and a child by birth...so I'm not a hypocrite and I'm pretty comfortable saying this)
If you think that it's selfish to do AI when there are "thousands" of unwanted children in the world who need to be adopted, then I think YOU need to run your little self to the doctor and get yourself sterilized... and then YOU just go adopt. Or else YOU are a hypocrite. Sure, it'll cost you at least $6000 to $50,000 to adopt the baby or child when you could just breed for free... But since it's selfish to do AI when you could adopt an unwanted child, GO DO IT yourself and skip breeding w/your spouse
^^^Anybody who HAS done that...speak up...otherwise all those anti-AI speeches about whats good for everybody else except YOU....mean jack shit.
Frankly...its just audacity to lecture people on what they should do when you dont even do it yourself.
Some smart alec might pipe up and say...well we dont have to...we have the option of having our own children...well surprise!! thats exactly the same option people get with AI
Oh and one more thing...children by adoption OR AI...are in the custody of parents because 100% of the time they are WANTED BEFORE they came along...you cant remotely give that percentage for naturally conceived biological children and you cant guarantee that naturally conceived biological children are gonna be wanted once they get here. | |
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| Girlfriend’s Kid by Artificial Insemination---No Dad was Wanted!!!
Posted: 6/12/2008 1:09:15 PM | Several excellent points have been raised.
Divorce Rate? Single (never been married) parents? Yes it might be nice that children be brought up with both male and female role models, but if the choice was between only one role model or two bad role models (parents who constantly fight), well I'd pick the single role model.
There are far more factors that determine whether a child will be brought up well than just if there is a mother and a father.
The adoption issue was brought up. How much does it cost to adopt? Apparently not all adoptions go through. Some people still want to experience childbirth.
Given all the various options, with the positives and the negatives of each, I don't see AI being selfish. It is simply an option for someone who hasn't had success in that experience in life. I suspect all the comments opposing AI probably have to do with the idea that it is man interfering in gods "plan", that only god can create life.
Personally if I'm not involved with the woman, I don't have an opinion on the issue. What she decides to do is none of my business and really shouldn't be the business of anyone else.
If I was involved with someone who had this in the past, or is considering it in the future, my answer would be "it depends". Even for the reasons stated in the OP, I would likely be fine with it as there wouldn't be any ex issues.
If she had it before we were involved, I'd have no problem with it.
If we tried and failed to become pregnant through the natural process, and she wanted AI as one last option, I'd have no problem either.
If she was considering it with a donor that wasn't myself, I probably would have a problem with it.
I was with someone who wasn't able to have any further kids, even with the assistance of AI. She was fortunate to have her son before she had to have the surgery that ended her childbearing days. | |
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| Girlfriend’s Kid by Artificial Insemination---No Dad was Wanted!!!
Posted: 6/12/2008 1:14:52 PM |
If you were a male and you girlfriend had a kid by artificial insemination for the above mentioned reasons, what would you think about it?
I would be pissed that I am with her and she went out on her own to get artificially inseminated. I would dump her for not including me. | |
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| Girlfriend’s Kid by Artificial Insemination---No Dad was Wanted!!!
Posted: 6/12/2008 1:33:15 PM | Coming form a different background.. I may have an unorthodox of non-politically correct view on some things including this one.
In my observation, having kids in American society has become, in a way, another means to "keep up with the Joneses". It's like people feel they "have to have" a house.. a certain asset.. and now - a kid to "fit in" and be "not worse than anyone else". Too often I have seen (and heard) that quite openly women were being anxiety-ridden because their younger sis or girlfriend younger already had a kid and they have not. It sounded like a status symbol or a fashionable accessory that they "must have" to feel on par with other women in the neighborhood.. club.. or whatever. Some, I even heard, wanted to have a kid (or a second one) so they can have some friends among other Mommys in the neighborhood and socialize. To be "like everybody else". Sometimes these motives are not explicitly stated but veiled by various more acceptable euphemisms like biological clocks ticking, "oh but's that sooooo cute" etc. The length to some people are willing to go just to do it even if their circumstances are not really conducive astounds me.. and makes me think it's selfish. A press story about a woman with cancer deciding to have a baby (yeah, a couple of years down the road she may not be among the living and there may be one more parentless kid in the world). And leave her widower with not only unsurmountable medical bills, but a kid to raise while he's trying to pay them...Everyone applauds her bravery.. I personally think it's pure selfishness. Same (but maybe not so drastic of an example) in my view applies to women who deliberately choose to have kids "just for themselves".
I subscribe to the notion that ideally kid(s) should have a functional family - Mom, Dad - hopefully the ones that are not too busy or self absorbed to actually RAISE the kids instead just feed them, bribe them with toys and ship them off to school or nanny. Granted divorces happen, or one of the spouses can die and a kid can be left with only one parent, but that's a different story. I do not think that everyone MUST HAVE kids at any cost, especially as there are so many ones waiting for adoption.
Love kids and cannot wait to raise, teach, and guide them? Become a foster parent.. Volunteer.. Big brother-big sister..You name it. This would be truly out of unselfish motive. | |
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| Girlfriend’s Kid by Artificial Insemination---No Dad was Wanted!!!
Posted: 6/12/2008 1:45:19 PM |
Love kids and cannot wait to raise, teach, and guide them? Become a foster parent.. Volunteer.. Big brother-big sister..You name it. This would be truly out of unselfish motive.
Again, why does this only apply to singles? Wouldn’t this be a question to ask anyone who wants to have a child? | |
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| Girlfriend’s Kid by Artificial Insemination---No Dad was Wanted!!!
Posted: 6/12/2008 2:04:33 PM | I think it is best for children to be raised in a two parent home with the benefit of both male and female role models...
I know shit happens and sometimes families are separated by divorce or death... but to PLAN for the shit outcome at inception?
That's just shittie. | |
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| Girlfriend’s Kid by Artificial Insemination---No Dad was Wanted!!!
Posted: 6/12/2008 2:17:04 PM | I'm hoping this is a syntax error and that you don't mean that I would create a child that would grow up in a broken home
It isn’t any more of a syntax error than your implication that me wanting a child is selfish is a syntax error. I’m sure you didn’t set out for this to occur (growing up in a broken home), but it did. You could not guarantee that kind of stability for your child. So even though, my child will not ever know his/her biological child, I can guarantee that he/she will never have to experience the pain of watching his/her parents divorce.
Sorry but these are not the same thing. A more appropriate comparison to divorce would be something like losing the family home. The situation the child has known may change but if the child has the sense that he or she is still loved and cared for by the parents, the child can adjust to the new life. I'm realistic enough to know that life doesn't come with any guarantees (except our eventual death). Besides, parents divorcing and living separately isn't necessarily an unstable environment. Initially, yes; perpetually, no.
But I haven't used used the word selfish (others have but not me). I've said having children via AI is self-centered (there is a difference). It only reflects the concerns of the woman undergoing it. It's not the result of a loving relationship* - a bond and contract of sorts - and it doesn't seek to help a disadvantaged child already in existence. Your guarantee of your child never having to endure a divorce is, again, your issue, not the child's. And, unless you're absolutely dead-set against having another romantic relationship, it's probably premature to declare this.
*Yes, I know that not every child is conceived from a loving relationship. This speaks to a couple's intent to start a family.
But you're free to do as you please. I'm not being dismissive of your points, it's just that we're only posting our opinions here. No one is trying to stop you. As a matter of personal opinion, the idea of using a sperm donor gives me the creeps.
So in your belief an accident is more valuable than a plan?
In the broad sense, Yup.
P.S. I agree with RNBF's post. | |
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| Girlfriend’s Kid by Artificial Insemination---No Dad was Wanted!!!
Posted: 6/12/2008 4:09:26 PM | This thread remind me of a book I once read about a society with "breeders," "warriors" and others I cannot remember. So we arrived at this place?
Anyway if this is so popular, why don't more women do this? Perhaps this renders men useless, or even more so in the eyes of TV, women, and the culture of consumerisme. | |
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| Girlfriend’s Kid by Artificial Insemination---No Dad was Wanted!!!
Posted: 6/12/2008 4:27:11 PM | (not to pick on Lateef solely, this goes for all y'all who are lecturing on the "two parents, one of each" circuit)
I suppose then, those of us who are widowed should put up our kids for adoption by a 2 parent household in order to make them "balanced" or provide the best home for them???? Are you serious?
Have you never heard of kids with two parents who abuse them or one who abuses and the other ignores or enables? Are you kidding??
Kids do best in loving households. There is a huge difference between kids being raised by single parents who feel "stuck" and kids being raised by single parents who are in this for the long term and are "intentional" rather than "incidental" parents. Do any of your studies make that distinction? | |
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| Girlfriend’s Kid by Artificial Insemination---No Dad was Wanted!!!
Posted: 6/12/2008 5:30:18 PM | In my opinion, if someone goes to the effort that is required for AI (its not convenient, fast or dignified...it is a difficult road to take!), and has the resources to do it, I say go for it.
A planned pregnancy is so refreshing these days. I dont know anyone who has biological children who planned it.
I would rather see a child raised by the planner type than the 'oh crap, I thought we were safe that time' couple who has no clue what they are in for. (and up til this moment had not even discussed marriage/long term commitment) | |
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| Girlfriend’s Kid by Artificial Insemination---No Dad was Wanted!!!
Posted: 6/12/2008 7:54:24 PM | Urinemyway: The difference is that your child was forced into a situation in which he/she had to adjust. My child will be brought up knowing, not having his/her truth pulled out from under him/her. My child will also know that he/she is loved and cared for by the parent, but will not have to endure the adjustment that divorce brings. (Of course I realize this is not a guarantee, but it is not currently in the realm of possibility!)
Just as a divorce does not necessarily create a perpetually unstable environment, neither does being a single parent.
But I haven't used used the word selfish (others have but not me). I've said having children via AI is self-centered (there is a difference). It only reflects the concerns of the woman undergoing it.
Once again I will ask. In what way is a couple deciding to procreate any less self-centered? Isn’t there decision solely about what they want? And their decision to divorce is also their issue, not the child’s, but the child will suffer the consequences of that couples decision.
Can someone please inform me of this purely selfless reason that couples possess for having children that singles lack? | |
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| Girlfriend’s Kid by Artificial Insemination---No Dad was Wanted!!!
Posted: 6/12/2008 8:05:11 PM | | Options are always good to have. This one is appealing. Artificial insemination brings new benefits to the situation. The birth mother knows what she ate, how much she slept, and the lifestyle she led, during pregnancy. Unlike an adopted child, she knows the child's history from fertilization.... forward, unto birth. This is a good start for the child and the parent, and is especially appealing to those who can afford to be single parents! | |
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| Girlfriend’s Kid by Artificial Insemination---No Dad was Wanted!!!
Posted: 6/12/2008 9:30:40 PM | I can't see any good reason to deliberately plan to make a child fatherless.
I know plenty about fatherless and motherless children. I'm not going to go into the details.
I don't think comparing this to other less than ideal situations makes it ok either.
Maybe I'm an idealist - but that's ok with me.
I deeply wanted to have several children but not without a solid foundation of two parents and extended family. I think one sole adult is not solid enough to support a kid through the ups and downs of life no matter how hard you may try. You can get sick, you can make a bad career mistake, you have no backup. Life's ups and down are better weathered by two people. I wasn't always a single parent. I know a good family life too and a bad one.
I wish all the parents out there the very best of luck. I was\am a single parent of a 19 yr old. You especially need all the luck you can get when you are on your own.
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| Girlfriend’s Kid by Artificial Insemination---No Dad was Wanted!!!
Posted: 6/12/2008 9:37:57 PM | i decided to adopt at age five. i was able to have kids. so, i would not make this choice. that being said, i do know that my ex and his ex before me, underwent this procedure. they, however, were a couple and their children were able to say they had parents (plural).
there are more and more kids who come from this situation, but a number have said that it was difficult being born to single moms--even though they loved their moms. some have met their sperm donors and found out more info from them and stopped "romancing" about who their fathers really were.
personally, i maintain that if you want kids there are plenty of them. many however, want to "experience" pregnancy and have their own--as do many couples. to me, it's the same. to me, it's ego. but i know i am in the minority. so, the answer is a toss. who is to say that a couple with a lousy marriage is better than a good single mom. or even a good single dad?
one thing i can say is that this is an increasingly alienated and alienating world. to me, it's sad. but, at least there is no "illusion". | |
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| Girlfriend’s Kid by Artificial Insemination---No Dad was Wanted!!!
Posted: 6/12/2008 9:45:24 PM |
Can someone please inform me of this purely selfless reason that couples possess for having children that singles lack?
The closest I can come is the Brad Paisley song, "Two People Fell in Love". Listen and you might understand why people see it that way. It's not that it's purely selfless, but that's just how things always had been before doctors started playing God.
I'm not going to put it down because my ex has PCOS and we had to go through a lot for her to conceive our daughter. We probably didn't have to do the AI thing, but the doctors wanted to control it to make sure it was successful.
Ultimately there is no selfless reason for wanting children regardless of marital status. If you want a child without a known father... you're the one who's going to have to explain it to them. Hope for the best that your child will understand and accept that they will never know their father. | |
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| Girlfriend’s Kid by Artificial Insemination---No Dad was Wanted!!!
Posted: 6/12/2008 11:38:28 PM | | message 75: if you cannot afford full adoption, there is an adoption assistance program--AAP. this is given irrespective of income. my children were "of color", teens, a sibling group and special needs--each element in and of itself, is a criteria for more assistance. if you really want kids, they are there and waiting. that is assuming you qualify as a father and parent. single and/or working parents are helped also with day care and respite. children adopted after age 16, also qualify for educational benefits in this state, same as foster kids. some people allow the kids to assume their names, take on guardian status and let the kids call them mom or dad. i did not do this, but many do it to get their kids even more benefits--particularly if special needs kids. | |
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| Girlfriend’s Kid by Artificial Insemination---No Dad was Wanted!!!
Posted: 6/13/2008 4:53:34 AM | I still can't get over the implication that dad's are not necessary... and for someone that is unable to connect to another human being in a partnership of marriage? Why is that... and is this child going to be fulfilling a need for the single parent to feel loved?
If someone is willing to make the sacrifices and put the child first, why can they not find a mate to join up with in the raising process?
What if a man wants to pay to impregnate a woman and then take over the child rearing on his on? Would this be applauded as well because he would love the child enough to rob them of a mother? | |
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| Girlfriend’s Kid by Artificial Insemination---No Dad was Wanted!!!
Posted: 6/13/2008 6:43:09 AM | Janet,
Not one person has said that not having a father in the picture is what any woman would want. What has been said is a crappy father is best to be out of the picture if he can't be a good father.
I think this idealism of 2 parent households has grown way beyond what the op thought it would. The question was asked if a man dated a woman who had it done (was not defined as having AI while dating said guy or if done before he came along) would a man stay with the woman. OP, did I interpret correctly?
In a perfect world, two people who love each other lay together, conceive, go through pregnancy, birth, and live lovingly together to raise the child(ren). How perfect is the world? Seriously, realistically, how many parents still stay together for the life of the child they created? My parents were married 32 yrs until my father passed. I had a wonderful life. My mother is one of the most amazing women I have met and my father was a very well respected, but more so, very well liked man in several communities. I strived to have a relationship like the one I had as a model.
No one marries with the thought of "this is temporary". No one gets pregnant with a partner thinking "we'll be going our separate ways 1 yr after the baby is born and he won't want anything to do with her". I'm pretty sure a majority of the people here believe the best scenario is to have a partner whom they love and create a child in that loving relationship, raise the child(ren) together, then grow old together with the grandkids all sitting around listening to grandpa and grandma telling stupid old stories. Reality is, that idealistic life is about a 30 to 40% likelihood.
Most of us who have advocated AI, adoption, foster parenting, or any "other" means of having a child without bumping uglies with the jacka$$ next door are realists. We are (not me, since I haven't and probably won't do anything about it) people who wanted a child(ren). It is anyone's priviledge in life to be able to care for another's life. The mom who adopted, the lady who is having AI, the woman who fostered a group of siblings, and anyone else who has gone to great lengths to share their love should be admired. Even a man who wanted a child and had either a surrogate or adopted/fostered should be considered a beautiful soul and a great man.
Too many men and women are selfish, childish, drug addicted, actively acoholic, believe a party life with multiple booty partners, and anything or anyone else is significantly more important than their own child. Instead of saying those loving single men or women who want children shouldn't do it because they need both parents, people like you should be saying, take those children out of that abusive life and let a loving person with a heart of gold raise the children.
Damn, why do people have to be so negative about someone trying to make their life happy while giving happiness, security, and unconditional love to another little person who is very impressionable. More people need to be this way and stop the blaming someone of "robbing the child of a mother or father". Most of the time, that "robbed" parent robbed him or herself out of that child's life. Just because someone can get pregnant while sneezing or has super hero strength sperm does not make them a good parent or role model. When all of you negative people are pointing the "you shouldn't" finger at those who do, look at where your other four fingers are pointing. Back at yourself.
Those who are negative in this thread ask yourself 2 questions. 1. Am I a good parent and role model to my child whether or not their other parent is in the picture? 2. Do I still have a 2 parent household for my child? And I don't mean the other parent is invovled, I mean the other parent is still living with you in the familial home and being cocoperative, loving, and good role models for your children. If you answer no to either of these questions, how dare you stand in judgement of someone who wants to be a parent, just like you. The only difference is these other people went through great heart ache, time, money, physical pain, emotional torture, ridicule, name calling, and maybe even the disassociation of other family members. And if these people are not on the state of federal "dole", more power to them for being able to financially support the life they give or help by becoming their parent. It pisses me off when people who know they can't support a child get knocked up (and I hate that term) and then put that baby on the welfare roles because they were not more careful.
Look at it like this; people who spend the money to the get the child will be able to support the child. Now, to all of you welfare parents, how do you like the chastising? Doesn't feel good to know people think you're wrong for "breeding" and having others people pay for a child you can't or won't support. See, same thing for what you've been telling these parents about how they can afford to financially support a child. One huge difference...these people are responsible.
Let's kill this thread now. Blood has been drawn on more than a few levels. Even someone like me who has no vested interest in having a child has championed the EQUAL RIGHTS of humans to procreate or adopt even without a partner. Hypocrisy sux a$$, doesn't it? | |
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| Girlfriend’s Kid by Artificial Insemination---No Dad was Wanted!!!
Posted: 6/13/2008 7:01:27 AM | I'm not sure how it is done in the US, but in Canada the male sperm donor has no contact or knowledge of where his sperm went. So there is no possibility of a paternity issue. They do provide a medical history.
I agree with people that two parents are best; two parents in a loving relationship are "bestest". If you don't have that, you're going to have to compensate, do things a bit differently to make up for raising your child in the less than ideal.
I've probably had the closest one can come to an AI experience, without it being AI, because my husband and I split up when I was a few months' pregnant. I have no idea where he is; although he saw her after she was born, she has never met him. I have made sure my family is very involved in her life, changed my career so I had more time to be her mum, moved so I have no commute (I could 'be there' if she got sick faster than many stay at home mums could) and have contingency plans in place for the "what ifs" I can imagine.
There are "extra wrinkles" you do have to plan for when your child doesn't have a father... some I anticipated, others I discovered. Father's day is one. Who is she going to make her craft for at school? Mine didn't have a grandfather, which would be the logical replacement, so she made something for her uncle. How does her elementary school describe families? Ours included all types of families, including same sex... and there were a few kids with 2 mums or 2 dads. What "cover story" do you give her for when strangers ask those unknowingly awkward questions in the supermarket check out line? With a cover story, which they recommend you give adopted children BTW, the child knows what to day. When people assumed my b/f was her father she could easily say "He's mum's b/f"
A father is critical in a child's life, so when you don't have one, you have to find alternatives.... I requested her elementary and middle school place her with male teachers at every opportunity and she has been in sports with male coaches since age 5. Bless those men who volunteer their time as coaches... they have been an invaluable influence.
It is a tough road to raise a child alone... it can be done well. | |
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| Girlfriend’s Kid by Artificial Insemination---No Dad was Wanted!!!
Posted: 6/13/2008 8:08:02 AM |
I deeply wanted to have several children but not without a solid foundation of two parents and extended family. I think one sole adult is not solid enough to support a kid through the ups and downs of life no matter how hard you may try. You can get sick, you can make a bad career mistake, you have no backup. Life's ups and down are better weathered by two people. I wasn't always a single parent. I know a good family life too and a bad one.
While I agree that this solid foundation of two parents and extended family is the ideal, it doesn’t make any other scenario inherently bad. I think there is a continuum. For most women who go the route of AI, the have a solid foundation and extended family. They have considered all of the scenarios that you describe here and have a plan to deal with each one. Personally, I have lots of backup. In fact, I am much more prepared and my life more stable now than when I was married.
I would postulate that women who decide to become single parents through adoption or AI have taken much more time to plan, consider, and make this decision than even the strongest couples.
but that's just how things always had been before doctors started playing God.
So, do you not believe in organ donation or heart bypass surgery or cancer treatment either? These haven’t always existed either, and people believed that they died b/c it was God’s plan.
Ishtar38: Thank you so much. Contact me if you want any info. I’ve done a ton of research and have a blog about the experience.
Okcgreeneyes: All I can say is thank you! | |
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| Girlfriend’s Kid by Artificial Insemination---No Dad was Wanted!!!
Posted: 6/13/2008 8:30:05 AM | | I'd support her in this fully....I'm sick and tired of people who look down on single parents and have this attitude that a child must have two parents otherwise the kid is missing out on something special....who are they to say what a child needs? If this woman wants to have a child on her own....GOOD FOR HER....at least you know the child is wanted and will be loved......life does not fit into little neat boxes families come in different forms........with a 50-55% divorce rate I'm sure some people should already know that custody fights are not great for the kids involved. | |
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