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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/13/2008 5:58:26 AM | Basic Health Care simply needs to be affordable and within the reach of people that hold down a job and serves or have served socitey ~ in some manner or fashion.
presently ~ thats quit impossible! ~ Care to explain why? ~~ Dance | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/13/2008 6:08:59 AM | | Universal Health care is just the first step towards Socialism, why should hard working Americans carry the Health care Burden for all of those who choose not to or can not contribute? If America is seriously contemplating switching to such a system we should do something about all of the illegal immigrants first. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/13/2008 9:20:53 AM | Insolent1, here we go again .......... the socialism argument you make has been around since the 1920's........it is no more "socialistic" than the financing of public schools, public police and firemen, public utilities, ambulance services, etc. All of these things, I am sure, had their detractors somewhere along the line but most of the people somehow found their way to deciding that these would serve the public interest and the common good, for all, better than being privately financed.
AGAIN, it is only a way to finance services, the delivery of them is private....so it is even LESS "socialistic" that police or fire or schools because NO MEDICAL PROVIDER would be in government employment .........
I dont know of any federal program that gives entitlement to illegal immigrants for health care other than Refugee Resettlement.......some states do provide emergency and maternal care through programs for illegal immigrants, IF they meet federal poverty guidelines. Again, for life-threatening emergencies.
SOME border hospitals and cities, etc. have experienced a problem with uncompensated care through illegal immigrants and that is, indeed, a genuine problem for them ......... my GUESS is that it is urgent care, not elective procedures, and what they are morally obliged to provide people to keep them alive and well. This has little to do with the questions about a national health care financing plan, though.
However, look at the meat-packing industry........there are a great many illegal immigrants who are actually recruited and bussed up to work at these plants by places like Tyson foods to work those assembly lines, etc.....often because they are simply cheap, expendable labor..... so, someone is sick or injured, Tyson just dumps them and the private and public American hospitals and taxpayers bear the burden.
Wouldnt it make better sense for Tyson to pay into a national pool via taxes they collect, like many employers pay privately now (like my employer does for me), so that they have to pay into a financing system that those hospitals would be compensated by instead of being stuck with bad debts due our our private financing system? | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/13/2008 1:34:48 PM | | First off there is no such thing as a "GREAT" illegal immigrant, there are great immigrants, but any that are illegal are not great..much less serve a purpose. So, universal health care, worst idea since Hillary running for President...great way to sink the economy more, cost more in taxes, and give more jobless hobos and wellfare check grabbers more reason to stay the way they are, get a job..a REAL job, where they offer it, or get a working job, where you can afford to pay private health insurance...some people may not like doing the work part, but if they dont then they shouldnt have any healthcare at all. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/13/2008 1:47:21 PM | Why is it that some people are so selfish and greedy?
They make Marie Antoinette seem like a saint when she said "let them eat cake!"
Let them die! That's the Republican montra!
If someone can't get a good job, they deserve to DIE!
Die poor people DIE already, you are taking up a few of MY dollars. It is more important that I have that little extra than for you to live.
Only 18,000 people die per year, that's nothing!
But, kill 3,00 in one attack and we'll waste 3 trillion dollars attacking a different country.
When did my country fall into this hell? | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/13/2008 1:50:05 PM | re: """there are a great many illegal immigrants who are actually recruited..."
"First off there is no such thing as a "GREAT" illegal immigrant, there are great immigrants, but any that are illegal are not great..much less serve a purpose."
That statement reminds me of a scene I witnessed at Walmart two nights ago, I try not to shop there but the heat wave got me in the market for a fan. There was this very gentle, nice man, a Walmart employee, he had kindness and culture all over him in his manner and tone, etc. and had a little problem with English ... which can be an annoyance but he did point me to the fans .... and later, I saw him interacting with a local. This guy looked retarded, or like Homer Simpson except nasty...and kept saying, in his thick Boston accent, "an a-lahm clock...an a-lahm clock!" .... and the guy just wasnt getting the "alarm" word because half the time even I dont understand Boston accents ... so the foreign Walmart guy kept point to the clock section,but wasnt quite getting the "a-lahm" clock bit..... so Homer finally gave up and stormed off.... not quite able to get it that in the clock department they might sell an "a-lahm" clock or two?
The immigrant here might have had a Ph.D or working on a wonderful novel or just plain a tough life .....but at least in this case, he was eons ahead on the evolutionary scale than Homer. Homer was without a doubt an absolute cretin of a man.
".... way to sink the economy more, cost more in taxes, and give more jobless hobos and wellfare check grabbers more reason to stay the way they are, get a job..a REAL job, where they offer it, or get a working job, where you can afford to pay private health insurance...some people may not like doing the work part, but if they dont then they shouldnt have any healthcare at all. """
Private insurance and the high premiums and cost of care ARE sinking the economy. Wages are stagnant, in part, because of the cost of health care and insurance. The medical community, employers AND a lot of people in government now are saying something HAS to be done or a lot of cities and towns and states are going to be bankrupted, much less individuals.
Oh, and by the way, the "a-lahm" clocks can be found in the clock section, Cowboy. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/13/2008 2:08:19 PM |
Why is it that some people are so selfish and greedy?
They make Marie Antoinette seem like a saint when she said "let them eat cake!"
Let them die! That's the Republican montra!
They are an amazing lot aren't they. Yet they're all god-fearing christians. Yeah right. It seems the compassionate conservative is a myth. 'Ya think? LMAO.
why should hard working Americans carry the Health care Burden for all of those who choose not to or can not contribute?
Let's see. My tax dollars went to Katrina aid but, hey, I'm not getting wet? I live in California. It doesn't affect me at all. Why should I have to pay for them? Well, uh, because I'm a human being.
My tax dollars will go toward flood relief in, among other states, Indiana. Hell. I don't live there? I'm not flooded out. Why should I have to pay? Well, uh, because I'm a human being. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/13/2008 2:15:06 PM | Did ya miss me?
I was banned for ten days for asking someone if they were an idiot, because they didn't want any more pay or education benefits.
Some people just don't get how small their piece of the pie really is! | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/13/2008 2:31:23 PM | Universal Health Care;
What exactly does this mean ? A few dollars more in taxes and I can get my gym membership free ? How about a root canal or a dental implant ? Or a liposuction for the obese and a hair transplant for the balding ? Laser eye treatments for free and don't forget free medications, can't wait to see my doctor and get all the free treatments I can right ?
Probably not, probably a big chunk of taxes to pay for yet another government program or department that will cover less than the average health care plan and only for those who qualify and you can bet it won't be you. Forced insurance just like your car and not everyone will pay only some, like you or maybe your boss or the company you work for who'll pass on the cost in cut jobs, lower salaries and price hikes. Guess the middle class will need to work additional jobs which of course will increase stress which in turn will create more illness and a greater need for insurance and of course more government so who comes out on top and who gets to wait in line for their free healthcare.
Right now if the poorest of the poor gets sick and is taken to the ER they get treated and the treatment is covered by welfare so in essence we already have a universal healthcare plan. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/13/2008 2:51:19 PM | I don't place much stock in any organized religion. Too many hypocrits.
It is like a Venn diagram.
All Christians are compassionate. . .
No Neocons are Compassionate. . .
Therefore; No Neocons are Christians.
Universal Healthcare works in EVERY other industrialized country. Do we think so little of America that we can't make it work here too? Are all of those countries better than we are? | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/13/2008 3:05:44 PM |
Universal Healthcare works in EVERY other industrialized country. Do we think so little of America that we can't make it work here too? Are all of those countries better than we are?
There is one radical difference between the two.
Cultural filters that are there, undeniable, and that impact directly on how the issue is seen inside America's borders. In the USA that cultural filter of "individuality" conflicts with the "collective rights" cultural filter of the industrialized West.
Ironically, the idea of coverage remains the same. One pays for medical insurance either way; either through untold numbers of HMO's , or a centralized government insurance plan.
One hopes to pay into such plans, and never collect on that coverage. 
As union VP, I had a young man that complained that he was paying for an additional health insurance plan that increased his benefits and coverage - and was "wasting" that money, since he was never ill.
We had to remind him that this was indeed a good thing. 
He could have easily opted out of it, as it was not mandatory - but we convinced him that this would not be a good idea, unless he was sure he was never ever going to be ill again. 
Under that plan, he receives great protection, including things like long term disability coverage that pays him in case he cannot work due to illness. That alone could make the difference between a life spent in poverty - or relative comfort.
The sad part about all this is that sick people still get covered there, under the public purse, and generally only are treated when they are seriously ill. This is a total loss to the system, as there is no payment whatsoever from these uncovered parties going into the system - or very little.
This , as I understand it, is essentially paid by the taxpayer and not the medical insurance industry (at least directly).
The larger an insurance group is, the more power it has. It can start to mandate control over the industry, if it is a monopoly. One can reduce the multiple parties doing the same function, under those numerous HMO's, currently.
That American cultural filter is the nexus of the problem in any universal health care debate. One cannot deny it, nor overlook it's importance in the matter at hand.
You can see echoes of it all over, when various posters start talking about "socialism" and other such labels. This is that filter manifesting itself, and that's totally normal and natural to expect of a certain number of Americans.
It's something that's deeply burnt into the DNA of America, and that isn't a bad thing.
This is an area, one of many, where an "American" solution must be found. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/13/2008 3:42:07 PM | welcome back, exodus ...
OK, I will go out on a limb here and make a prediction.
1. The plan is to expand Medicare to the general population and fold Medicaid into it.
2. CMS, the big federal agency overseeing current national health plans...Medicare/Medicaid, etc. ...already form a large federal beaurocracy so no new federal beaurocracy would be necessary.
3. There will be a requirement that every American will need to register for an insurance plan, like in Massachusetts. It has to be all or nothing or it won't work and maybe it wont include everyone, but will be one huge pool of people.
4. There will be a requirement that every private insurance can no longer deny coverage for pre-existing conditions, etc. so that they dont cherry pick. Insurances will also be required to offer a minimum package of benefits equal to Medicare. They may offer insurance for benefits not covered by Medicare, however.... and also, another topic, they can offer long term care insurance and other kinds of social insurance as the government moves to reform Social Security down the line.
5. Given a level playing field in enrollees and preexisting conditions, Medicare can be sold through employers as a choice of insurances and, given that their administrative rate is 5% by law, ought to be a very competitive and attractive choice. Private insurers will gradually drop out of it, given their overhead is 30% of claims, as noncompetitive and move into other areas, such as long term care insurance or just move on to other lines of insurance.
6. Medicare will offer a variety of "plans", so that most current health plans now will be covered, so no need to switch doctors and, in fact, if employment is changed, one could keep their same doctor. Also, like the MAss. model, people get in through a variety of doors, depending on incomes, situations, etc.
7. With premiums coming in from employers ...and employers who dont offer insurance plans may have to be dinged.... from a great many people among the 300 million insurable lives n America, it will be far more solvent and able to withstand the demands of babyboomers. Medicare rates to providers may need improvement, but a widespread single insurance payor has the ability and the influence to keep costs down to something more manageable.
I could go on, but generally the idea is to open Medicare up, have it be a very competitive player in the insurance market, eliminate private health insurance through the competition of a "government insurance plan" and/or move them into long term care and other retirement vehicle insurances in order to transform Social Security, and if and when 80% of Americans are covered by Medicare........voila! ...it is national health insurance!
That is my best guess for what is going to happen. I'd bet money on it.
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/13/2008 6:19:10 PM | When did my country fall into this hell?
It's been sliding since Vietnam, but didn't really start going down the crapper until the 1990's.
Universal Health Care is a no-brainer. We can either pay a little more in taxes and have everyone covered by a government that is suppose to work for everyone. Or we can pay a lot more to the insurance industry and the pharmaceutical corporations while our government turns their backs on the average citizen (most of whom can no longer afford heath care) while working only to benefit the rich, as things are now.
I get a kick out of people that call it socialized medicine - they want to toss in that "evil" word: socialism. That just tells me most people truly don't understand economic systems and how they work. True Capitalism does not work unless certain socialistic principals are applied. What happens when you play a game of Monopoly? Play long enough and one person has everything and everyone else has nothing. Works that way in real life, too, as we are starting to see now. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/13/2008 8:49:31 PM | Lets make it optional. People who think insurance companies deal in good faith and don't suck the life out of health care can keep their policies. Everyone else can opt for single payer and higher taxes. Wonder which would get the most takers. Other industrialized countries have figured out how to make it work but we're still held hostage by the Ignorance Movement whose motto seems to be, "If it ain't dumb, lets don't do it".
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/13/2008 9:33:57 PM | | Yes I do... if what we had worked, I'd say stick with it, but it doesn't, sad to say. We have nearly 50 million people with out insurance and growing. If we don't start treating our young at an early age, they become a bigger health risk later. The numbers multiply. The cost Health insurance would also be removed from businesses of all sizes , making it more appealing to hire and pay more per employee (get it, tax dollars) That's what we need more tax dollars from some where?, now you have to figure out where you're going to get it. And another writer was right. One trip to a hospital can devastate a lot of people, it's going on now. Greed has taken over this country and that's part of our problem... and for the illegals? couple things to think about.... you have a lot of baby boomers going to retire in the next ten yrs that are going to need tax dollar support ( it's not their fault the money's not there, so it has to come from some where). The other thing we seem to forget, when we all had jobs (good paying) we didn't seem to care so much about the illegals, that's why some have been here for 10 or more yrs. So it really comes back to jobs for everybody... and that's the nut that has to be broken.. that stimulus money should all have gone for creating jobs, every dime... jobs are tax dollars... just my 2 cents | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/13/2008 9:53:08 PM | "No not any more than they have the fundamental right to be fed, or clothed, or housed, or given a new tv."
Ahem....You DID notice the part about "no red herrings'....right?
Kindly state exactly how a "new tv" relates to health care. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/14/2008 9:13:33 AM | evnstevn, I think the Massachusetts model would prevail in such a scheme and its basically a bunch of different kinds of insurance vehicles paid for in different ways. Originally, it was going to be tax neutral, that was the fantasy under Romney, at least, but so many people are qualifying under the subsidized plans that it will require a state tax increae.
Basically, though, all employers can pitch in........its really the employers who fund most health care now, but even Medicare is from people who contributed to the system all their working lives.......its not all tax dollars, not by a longshot. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/15/2008 6:39:24 AM | | Its hard to feel sorry for anybody without a job, maybe Texas is just that much better than everywhere else in the fact that almost every job offers insurance, there is never an excuse other than being physically injured to not have a job without insurance, and my hard earned money will not pay for someone elses bs to get theirselfs taken care of. Being in Texas I see illegal immigrants first hand better than most and see the drain they put on the economy and the law, most wanting nothing more than a handout, then **** when they get it. Out here the majority of major crimes are commited by illegals who are draining the system, and putting universal health care will make it worse. Its gotten bad enough that every once in awhile we take a group of people to walk the ranch with rifles and check for them or for traces of them. No universal healthcare is a way of putting a sign that says, to other countrys dump your shit here. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/15/2008 7:58:35 AM |
maybe Texas is just that much better than everywhere else in the fact that almost every job offers insurance,
Perhaps that's not quite true:
The U.S. Government Accountability Office recently reported that fewer employers in Dallas, Houston, throughout Texas and the rest of the U.S. are offering health benefits. This is mostly because many new small employers have chosen not to pay for group health insurance due to rising costs and administrative headaches.
The study reported an eight-percentage point drop in the share of small employers that offered benefits to individuals from 2001 to 2006, from 68% to 60%. It also that reported that many employers who offer health benefits now insist that their employees pay a higher share of the costs.
http://ezinearticles.com/?Smaller-Employers-In-Texas-Opt-Out-Of-Insuring-Individuals&id=577054 | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/15/2008 11:53:43 AM | What do Americans think?
- in one poll 51% of Republicans said universal healthcare coverage should be a right of every American
http://thehill.com/campaign-2008/poll-shows-many-republicans-favor-universal-healthcare-gays-in-military-2007-06-28.html
- in another poll 68% said providing coverage for everyone is more important than keeping taxes down.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2006-10-15-universal-usat_x.htm
And it's virtually the same with every credible poll. Americans want a single payer health system. Americans believe this is a priority. Americans want a single payer system even if it means an increase in taxes.
For us to say that our National health care plan is based on private insurers is to admit that we have NO PLAN for our citizens.
So to say that you might go on a waiting list is a bit of a diversion. 40 million Americans have no insurance. That means they can't even get on a waiting list.
And insured Americans are essentially at the mercy of their insurance company.
Health care costs regularly go up by 20%. Why? Because there's no option.
The real question is, do you think it's a good idea for your child's health to be a profit opportunity?
How about your parent's Health? Should that be an opportunity to get rich?
Maybe our fire departments and emergency services should be based on ability to pay. Fire departments used to be. But now our fire departments are socialized for the greater good. Our libraries are socialized as well, and police departments. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/15/2008 12:47:54 PM | "We have nothing to fear, but fear itself. . ." ~ FDR
We live with socialism every day. Socialism simply means the public spreads out the risk and costs involved with any issue. Such a scarey word!
That's what insurance is. . .
That's what the fire dept is. . .
That what medicine is. . . (it just isn't efficient the way it is set up, but it is already socialized!!!)
That's what the police dept is. . .
That's what public colleges are. . .
Socialism is just the community coming together, that's NOT evil, Greed is! | |
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