| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/28/2008 6:55:14 PM |
You want to drive healthcare costs down? Here's how you can do your part. Next time you or one of your loved ones goes to the doctor tell him you don't want him to use any diagnostic equipment not available 20 years ago. And if by chance one of you is diagnosed with a life threatening illness (I hope it doesn't happen) tell the doctors and hospital you don't want any treatments, drugs or theraphies not available 20 years ago.
I don't have to volunteer to forgo medical treatment - it has already been imposed upon me by the prohibitive cost of insurance and treatment. My doctor is Web-MD. My treatment is anything I can buy off the drugstore shelf. Twenty years ago, I had insurance. Not anymore.
Actually it's simple minded. People, at least in the US anyway, now live longer and are in better health longer because of the advances in drug theraphies, medical devices, diagnostic equipment, etc. etc. Just where would all that have come from, if not from those ugly profits??
Don't need the pharmaceuticals to do research. I'm sure most non-profit university would be glad to do it if the "reasonable" profits went back to the university. That way, every US citizen would have ownership of the results of that research.
Yup, it is very simple. Unfortunately, there are those who are foolish enough to have been led to believe (most often by talk radio), that a few individuals have a "right" to profit from the life and death of others. They don't have that right. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/28/2008 7:02:30 PM | | On pharmaceutical costs, 70% of the increase is purely from marketing costs. Not research and development, not dealing with the FDA, not inflation..........TV commercials, sales forces, etc. is what we pay for. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/28/2008 7:38:04 PM | exactly!!!
70% (or was it 80%?) of the costs of R&D is marketing is to do tests that prove that our viagara pill is more effective than their viagara pill.
plus let's face it, research is a cumulative knowledge base. these pharmaceutical companies take governtment funding, and government funded research at universities and then build on it and sell it back to us at Robber Baron prices. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/28/2008 9:21:39 PM | | ^^^AMEN. I would love to be able to buy into Medicare or even Medicaid so that I can have real health coverage. I have had very bad experiences with private health insurance. At this time I have MassHealth and am pleased with the comprehensive coverage, which includes dental and vision. Government issued health insurance has to meet certain standards, unlike private health insurance companies. I would like to have the option of voting with my dollars and saying to private insurance, "BUG OFF!" | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/28/2008 11:01:13 PM | Well, I'm fortunate to have medical Insurance .... I think!
Last time I went to an American doctor - one I have had for several years, it cost me $400 for an annual check-up - because the doctor has now opted out of the insurance plan I have. That was for about 10 minutes of the doctor's time, plus a few tests and a blood draw. Compare that with my last visit to a doctor in Mexico - $20 per visit, plus $20 for a blood test, none of which had any contributions from my insurance. I spent about 30 minutes with the doctor during which time he discussed my general health and lifestyle. Something my US doctor doesn't seem to have time to do. As for the cost of drugs in Mexico - between one fifth and one third of the price of exactly the same medication in the US. I'm talking about the same brand name in the same packaging, not a generic. You think they are making a loss on drugs, or is the US just permitting drug companies to get away with murder? Even legislators making laws to prevent us from importing drugs at reasonable prices. And yes, I MEAN murder. When people can't afford drugs they die. The **stards who do this are guilty of treason.
Drug companies need the money? 
Most of the drug development effort by our wonderful, innovative, socially responsible pharmaceutical companies goes into keeping their products profitable. There is a limited time over which a patent is valid. Then generic copies can be made. So, once a company has a drug, it begins modifying to produce the same effect, but with a different enough chemistry to make it patentable. That way, they can persuade doctors and the public to buy the 'new' drug rather than a generic of the older version. Vallium, then Librium and finally Nobrium. Same drug, different patent.
As for comments such as refusing any medical innovations, that may not be a bad idea if you restrict it to commercial innovations and accept the ones you paid for in your tax dollars. NIH spends considerably more on research than the drug companies do. And that research is peer reviewed to make sure it is a valuable investment of your tax dollars.
I'm not big on leaving the government to do anything sensible. They seem to demonstrate quite spectacularly and on a regular basis that they are not particularly adept at getting things right. But the reality is, the government represents US. We elect them and give them the freedom to corrupt our country without repercussions. WE are ultimately responsible for the mess WE are in. And there don't seem to be enough sensible, outspoken people to do any better, or even to encourage better to stand for public office. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/29/2008 5:21:48 AM |
I would love to be able to buy into Medicare or even Medicaid so that I can have real health coverage.
I have 2 grandparents and my mother on Medicare and they have to have supplemental insurance policys to cover what Medicare won't.
On a side note a lot of doctors refuse to take Medicare patients because our wonderful government is either slow pay or no pay on the medical bills. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/29/2008 9:31:49 AM |
On pharmaceutical costs, 70% of the increase is purely from marketing costs. Not research and development, not dealing with the FDA, not inflation..........TV commercials, sales forces, etc. is what we pay for.
Source? | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/29/2008 9:41:34 AM | The source is Alan Sager, Ph.D., my former health care finance professor at the Boston University School of Medicine public health program, who is a national advocate for a single payer system.
He testified in front of Congress a few years ago on pharmacy costs.
Google his testimony, you'll find it. Try "sager, congress, drugs". Here's a little about Alan below:
http://www.bu.edu/bridge/archive/1999/10-01/features2.html
And by the way, I had a conversation with him a while ago about Medicare, Part D and what he said was that Bush did that for no other reason than to guarantee continuined high profits to drug companies and their CEOs were at the table writing the legislation. At the time, there were efforts by a number of states to develop Canadian-style wholesale deals and these were, at the time of Part D, outlawed by Bush. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/29/2008 11:03:14 AM | Canada is a country of 32 million people on the second largest landmass on the planet, thats why we pay more taxes, we got to build roads and infrastructure also. America is 300 million on a smaller land mass. So to say our taxes are higher because of Health Care is nonsense. Our industry pays a lot less up to 30% less than American industry for suppling health care to Everyone not just the employees. We all pay, and we all get health care. The waiting list in Canada is not all that bad as some may think, after all, those who cannot afford health care still get it. While south of the Border you have less people paying insurances therefore less waiting times. Imagine the waiting lest for people without health care. And of course if you got the big Bucks, no need to wait at all. You wait for a transplant up here the same as you wait down there, except if you got the Bucks. Our drugs are less expensive than yours even if your companies sell it to us CHEAPER than you. Now whose the sucker in all of this. Of course unless you got the Bucks. Personally I think we should pay insurance on all our social needs, like Cop Insurance, or Teacher insurance for your kids, how about a Military Insurance, or Coast Guard insurance the list can go on and on. So why not Universal Cops, military, teachers, and health care. Health Care is the most important aspect of our lives.
---plus let's face it, research is a cumulative knowledge base. these pharmaceutical companies take government funding, and government funded research at universities and then build on it and sell it back to us at Robber Baron prices.---
Universities are the leading research groups world wide, pharmaceutical companies are not leading edge on research. But they are leading edge at getting the Government to give them that research so they can capitalize on it, and try to give you the understanding that they need the profits for extra investigation.
I agree thou, I think everyone should pay there own health care, at Minimum wage. How about all the children who are born with permanent medical problems, for life. How do they afford treatment if they may be infirm.
The Only problem in Canada is with health care are the large insurance companies to the south.
I live in a city of 500,000 and never waited in an ER more than 45 minutes, uless an emergency life an death situation occurred such as a car accident. Its not always first come first serve, it matters on the emergency, thats why people tend to wait.
If your biggest problem is that you have to pay for everyone else's health care, then what is everyone else doing, not paying. They got you convinced that you are paying for every bum on the streets. I sub-contract, I go to work, my bosses pay the health tax. Not ME!!!!! Got it. And your industry would pay a hell of a lot less. Maybe they wouldn't have to relocate to Mexico or China to save a buck. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/29/2008 1:34:42 PM | My company pays $1,200 a month for my insurance and I pay 20% of it for the family plan.
My guess is that if I to pitch into a bigger tax base instead of paying privately for insurance, the cost to me would be less AND I might get higher pay as well.
the bigger the insurance pool, the better and the cheaper for everyone. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/30/2008 11:01:17 AM | ---My company pays $1,200 a month for my insurance and I pay 20% of it for the family plan.---
WHAT!!....That much...I believe on average the cost per employee with family is around $800 LESS in Canada and the employer pays it.....I Don't pay nada. Thats with Dental too> | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/30/2008 1:43:41 PM | Universal health care is only good if it brings costs down. If costs were brought down, everyone would (and should) be able to afford it, so that wouldn't even be an issue.
I'm a progressive... and everyone's talking about the plan Hillary had in the early 90s... and all that would have done would have been to make everyone PAY for it. It had no standard of accountability for cost increases, no way of holding down costs or anything. The only people something like that would help would be the insurance companies, because it would be illegal not to be paying insurance.
Universal health care with no cost controls is like the government holding a gun on us while the insurance companies go through our till.
Has mandatory auto insurance kept the price of auto insurance down in California?
I don't think so.
Cost IS the issue here. Is it not?
Isn't that the obstacle to it being available?
I thought so....
Go figure. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/30/2008 2:13:12 PM | Ya, Pappy, that's what they pay for the Tufts Plan here, it covers everything and there's little or no copays or any of that.
So.........keeping the insurance and financing system private, who wants to bet that costs are going to managed and held down with the insurance companies and doctors running the show, eh?
Oh, and don't EVER get sick or injured in-between jobs and caught without insurance .... 
Good luck with that!  | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/30/2008 2:38:51 PM | | I'm Canadian so I'm not sure that my thoughts will be welcome in this thread. However I'll try to tread lightly and just offer my views. I strongly believe in the system that we Canadians' have. We look after our own, I see it as a human responsibility that we have to one another. The American system... wow, that just seems so WRONG on so many levels! I hope it never gains hold here, no matter how hard private interests try. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/30/2008 9:09:28 PM | I was looking for my 1 billion spent in the US by Canadians on healthcare source, but found something more interesting instead:
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the_rich_and_famous_guide_to_c/
Reading on pof, you would think everyone's madly in love with the Canadian system. This blogger points out how a leader in Canadian healthcare Belinda Stronach went to California for surgery on the advice of her CANADIAN DOCTOR!!!
And what does it say when a business called Timely Medical Alternatives exists to get Canadians private healthcare in the US?
C'mmon, now people. How American of us to break the fine china. Our system isn't perfect but don't believe the hype that we can give it to the government, spend less, and still retain the highest quality care that we obviously do not appreciate today. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 6/30/2008 10:41:13 PM | Belinda Stronach was a politician/member of Parliament in Canada . She is mega loaded-hieress to Magna International the company that produces auto parts.Some wealthier Canadians may choose to shop outside to get healthcare. Many wealthy Americans go out of country as well ,to save money on healthcare.
Ms. Stronach believes in our healthcare system. During her political career she left the conservative party to switch to the liberal party,one of the reasons she gave for switching political parties was that she felt the conservatives were not committed to maintaining universal healthcare. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 7/1/2008 12:12:35 AM | We need something. I just paid 100 dollars Friday just for health care (not including prescriptions). I have had 5 prescriptions filled each ranging from 13.00-50.00 in the past month. This month alone I have probably spent close to 300.00 and that is just getting family check-ups and paying for routine prescriptions (blood pressure/ cholesterol etc) nothing serious. I have insurance. Yes, we need something and soon. Between that and gas I must really budget what I eat. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 7/1/2008 11:27:48 AM | ----Oh, and don't EVER get sick or injured in-between jobs and caught without insurance .... ---
No worries buddy, if I quit, I'm still covered.
--- This blogger points out how a leader in Canadian healthcare Belinda Stronach went to California for surgery on the advice of her CANADIAN DOCTOR!!!---
Belinda Stronach is a rich spoiled brat, who is not a leader in Health care but a stupid broad who monied her way into two political parties, attempted to run for leadership, lost and quit.
---And what does it say when a business called Timely Medical Alternatives exists to get Canadians private healthcare in the US?---
I guess when you got the bucks you can do anything, after all, its the bucks that give you your health care. But if you ain't got he bucks, I am sure Timely Medical Alternatives will sacrifice there time and waste there money for you. Its probably an American firm anyway, ushering extra coin for the Doctors who don't have enough Americans who have insurance.
--- Our system isn't perfect but don't believe the hype that we can give it to the government, spend less, and still retain the highest quality care that we obviously do not appreciate today.---
A heart transplant in the states cost $750,000 to the doctor, in Canada they get 60K for the same operation. Plus you should check the WHO statistics on where your highest quality care rates on the world scene far behind countries with Universal Care. Do you own research. Your running around 150,000 deaths a yr in your hospitals from lack of good care, from medical mistakes. Thats in One Yr. That happens in all countries but not to the extend of yours. Much of the reasoning for that is that the health care insurances don't cover what many need.
Much of the reason for the US Insurance is that there are so many specialist in the US and they charge far more than those of other countries and with that you get an influx of Doctors from other countries in the free for all for the coin.
The largest insurance companies on the planet are owned by Queen Eliz 2. Thats a fact, including the big US companies. She backs them. She is also the largest Land owner on the Planet along with the Vatican. Insurance is a money game. You pay and you very rarely recieve what you pay for. No matter what you pay insurance for you never get back what they say. And its because of that, that most of the civilized world created Universal Health Care, at least one insurance should work. The only problem I can see with the US thinking on this is the fact that you know very little about how it works, and you don't trust a government to handle this and with good reason, after all they want to privatize you SS into Wall Street. Its not Universal Health care thats the real problem, its the Government. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 7/1/2008 3:14:14 PM | YearoftheCat
I realize you're relatively new to this debate its been going on in these forums for more then a year now but here are some points you need to catch.
C'mmon, now people. How American of us to break the fine china. Our system isn't perfect but don't believe the hype that we can give it to the government, spend less, and still retain the highest quality care that we obviously do not appreciate today.
Our system is failing. Its not even up for discussion for it to stay as it is. Its not a new problem they have been battling this since the 80's. The system cannot support itself at this rate much longer. So its not an issue of breaking the fine china it has already broken someone just keeps using superglue on the peices but its going to start turning to dust before long. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 7/1/2008 4:00:52 PM | | Pappy, we have our visions of long lines waiting to see a doctor, reminiscent of post-WWII bread and soup lines weve seen in the movies....we know that in places like Russia they use rusty scalpels .... we somehow think that federal employees would examine us in the future instead of doctors and nurses... possibly the same FEMA guys who handled Katrina..... we know that one medicine is "socialized", what's next? ....so goes the nation....and we have the best and most high tech equipment, why my cousin went in for just a headache and they gave him an MRI before sending him home with two $300 aspirin... we see....we know.... we have our views.....leave us alone. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 7/1/2008 7:36:56 PM | | If I was rich I would buy property in Canada and find a way to buy my way into REAL health care instead of the private health insurance fiasco we have here in the US. Something MUST change! Enough already! Fighting an insurance carrier for over six months to get surgery approved was enough to turn me off forever from private health insurance companies. If I really had a choice, I would buy into MassHealth (Medicaid) as their coverage is very comprehensive and it is backed by government instead of some greedy private insurance company. People should be able to buy Medicaid if they aren't poor enough to get it for nothing. Rich and middle class people can help fund Medicaid by paying premiums for genuine health care coverage instead of fearing medical bankruptcy and excessive copayments wiping out everything they have. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 7/1/2008 9:16:31 PM | Something needs to happen when a lady goes to the hospital falls down in the waiting room and no one helps her until it is too late, she has passed away. Private, socialistic, etc. We need to do something. That was on Anderson 360 today (CNN).
I was in the gym today talking to a lady that happens to be a nurse at one of the hospital near my home. I had to go to there emergency room. I told her I felt they were making sure I had insurance and the 250.00 co-pay before they would really see me (even though I went in for chest pains).
She told me it was true. They were trying to make sure I was covered and could pay my bill.
I asked could they do that because they were a private hospital. She said no, they do that because they want there money.
What if I had been having an heart attack, left my insurance and visa cards at home, because the hospital is in walking distance from my home.
We need help. I always thought hospitals had to see the patients. I guess some have been stuck with so many unpaid bills. Something has to change.
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