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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 7/1/2008 9:26:41 PM | I think it's funny that the Right in America is so fervently against single payer healthcare, but the Conservatives in Britain, Canada, France, Denmark, Norway, etc are ardent defenders not only of Socialized healthcare, but FREE public college education, etc.
The Conservative right in Western Europe have the advantage of knowing what it was like without single payer healthcare, free college, etc., and still they defend their Nationalized systems vehemently.
However, Americans who probably never been to Europe and don't know what it's like to have single payer healthcare seem to think they know much better.
What is it that Conservative Americans know that has more weight than the experience of the Conservative Right in Europe & Canada? | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 7/2/2008 6:16:45 AM | faith2565, I spoke with a Quality Assurance Nurse last year who told me that all of them now spend their time sifting through patient records to boost Medicare claims for the money..........NONE of them works on quality assurance for patient care anymore......she said NO ONE is looking after the patient, at least at that level.  | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 7/2/2008 10:20:30 AM | What is it that Conservative Americans know that has more weight than the experience of the Conservative Right in Europe & Canada?
First of all I want to be able to choose my healthcare plan. I don't want the government deciding what kind of healthcare I recieve.
Secondly if we had free medical care and college, we would be taxed at a lot higher rate. I have paid for my education myself and don't want to be paying for others through higher taxes. You want to go to college, go get a job and earn the money yourself like I did. The laziness in this country amazes me. Everyone wants a free ride. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 7/2/2008 10:37:53 AM | KanaDUH...
First of all, you would have MORE choice with just about ANY model of national health care. Right now, you are limited to what your employer offers and if you change employers, you might even have to switch doctors.
You really have to make the mental effort to detach the financing from the organization and delivery of services. One, single insuring company can offer many kinds of different health plans.
Second of all, and try to let this sink in, nothing is free, no nationalized health plan would be free. you simply pay for it in a different way. If you need a cop, you can call, right? They dont come with a credit card machine and charge you, right? Thats because they are paid from your city or state taxes.
You, your employer, would simply pay into the federal authority which, in turn, pays for the health plan you belong to. The health plan ...which would be yours to choose... would not be run or operated by the federal government, it would simply be paid by them on your behalf.
Why is that so difficult for you to understand? Why do you keep repeating the same misinformation over and over? | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 7/2/2008 10:38:35 AM | TheStefano,
That has only continued to confirm what I felt in the emergency room. The only thing I kept thinking was. What if I had not had the money that day at that time. Would I have received substandard care?
Yes, I would. They probably would have sent me on my merry way, and I would be thinking I was ok, but instead they would not release me because my blood pressure would not stabilize.
That is how I found out I have high blood pressure (on medication now).
What if I was the 20 year old Faith going through a divorce with three small children and no college degree.
What would have happened to her?
Thank God I am almost 43 years old and the first time in my life that I need to take medication. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 7/2/2008 10:47:16 AM | Why do you keep repeating the same misinformation over and over?
It's not misinformation. You have your opinion and I have mine.
Your taxes would go up a great deal to pay for all this stuff. I already get my healthcare from my employer and have already paid for my education. So your asking to raise my taxes so others can have free healthcare and college. Nope like I said, get out there and earn your own way in life. Don't expect the government to be the answer for everything you can't afford. If you can't afford the basics like healthcare, my suggestion would be look at your budget get rid of some of the toys like computers, internet access, cell phones, cable tv, big screen tv etc. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 7/2/2008 11:47:01 AM | of course taxes would go up.
1) polls show that Americans would be willing to pay more taxes for single payer system.
2) with the leverage of a single payer system, the cost of healthcare grows at such phenomenal rates that it would easily outpace any taxes.
3) what is the cost of healthcare for those 40 million people who are uninsured and those that are underinsured? what price do you put on a childs life? i guess you can live with the shame that we have the highest infant mortality rate in the industrialized world. what is the price of peace of mind, for knowing that your claim won't be rejected by your insurance company?
4) it's good policy to provide a free college education to your public. as it is, it's difficult to afford the cost of college. It wasn't too long ago that the University of California did provide free education and the system was the envy of the nation. Now it's very expensive, state and federal grants have been diminished, and business is complaining about not having enough people with higher education to choose from.
the post WWII GI bill put many through school and it was a phenomenal success. we already know the positive effect of having a well educated public. In western Europe they have recognized this value and are benefitting from it. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 7/2/2008 12:28:10 PM | KanaDUH,
Duh, it is not just my opinion. In a single payer system, the health plan you choose you continue with no matter which employer you have, it has more portability. That is a fact.
As far as taxes go, you pay for health care now through your employer, yes? If you paid the same amount and instead of the employer paying it to the insurance, they paid it to public insurance ... would that matter to you?
I dont know if taxes would go up or down with a national insurance plan, but in theory:
1. A larger insurance pool means that Medicaid and Medicare, which are completely tax-based, can be eliminated as we know them and included in the pool.
2. Medicare carriers such as Blue Cross are mandated to 5% overhead, private insurances run about 30%, so the overhead would be less and costs would be less.
3. Every country who does a national insurance plan seems to do it at half the cost per capita..........our current system is very expensive!
4. National insurance would have the clout to rein in health care costs and at least some of the countries who went nationalized did it because health care was getting too expensive! | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 7/2/2008 12:28:48 PM | I have paid for my education myself
Really? Did you receive a Pell Grant? I didn't go to college but my taxes paid for other people to go. Did you receive any sort of student aid? If you did, thank me for helping to pay your bill. Did you go to a public university? It is government supported. What the student pays does not even come close to covering the cost of an education. So again, if you went to a public university, I, in part, paid for your education. Did you receive any State grants? These are often based on grades. If you did, I helped pay the bill for you. Thank me. Any scholarships from local businesses or corporations? These are paid through increases in the cost of goods. They are often public relation ploys that the consumer pays for, not the corporation. So I helped pay the bill. If you got one of these scholarships, give me thanks. Even most private colleges are subsidized in various ways.
Doesn't seem fair a poor guy like me should help foot the educational tab for the rich, but that is the way things work. Perhaps one of those college educated people, who I helped pay to be so smart, will discover a cure for cancer. Then, if I get cancer, that cure will be my payment for helping out. Um, wait. I can't afford insurance or health care. That cure won't be made available to someone as unworthy as me. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 7/2/2008 12:32:27 PM | Amen, The Stefano! I most definitely would rather pay a tad more in taxes than put up with private insurance companies who think nothing of denying needed care. I want to live and I don't want to be killed by some stupid insurer that decided that I don't "need" a life saving procedure. We are falling behind as a nation and competitively due to the lack of universal health care. Enough already!
BTW, a friend of mine is a Conservatie Party member in Canada and a staunch defender of universal health care. So, conservatism in other nations has a much more intelligent approach to the issues than the foolish right wing crazies that have hampered our country's progress for far too long. Interesting! | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 7/2/2008 1:07:27 PM |
polls show that Americans would be willing to pay more taxes for single payer system.
Please don't insult my intelegence with this. You can make a poll read anything you want depending on how the question is asked. If this were really true we would already have the free government healthcare. All the taxpayers I know say we pay too much already, so I doubt this "poll" is true if it even exists. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 7/2/2008 1:14:39 PM | Really? Did you receive a Pell Grant? I didn't go to college but my taxes paid for other people to go. Did you receive any sort of student aid? If you did, thank me for helping to pay your bill. Did you go to a public university? It is government supported. What the student pays does not even come close to covering the cost of an education. So again, if you went to a public university, I, in part, paid for your education. Did you receive any State grants? These are often based on grades. If you did, I helped pay the bill for you. Thank me. Any scholarships from local businesses or corporations? These are paid through increases in the cost of goods. They are often public relation ploys that the consumer pays for, not the corporation. So I helped pay the bill. If you got one of these scholarships, give me thanks. Even most private colleges are subsidized in various ways.
I worked a full time job and no grants or any other such nonsence. Just good old hard work. Which I don't see many people doing these days. They just gripe that it's not fair because some people apply themselve to achive their goals, money and sucess, and they feel they are entitled to the same thing only paid for by the government because they can't achieve these things on their own. Sorry but I just can't muster up much sympathy. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 7/2/2008 1:34:00 PM | Kanaduh, well, how nice for you to be so hard-working and industrious ........surrounded by all sorts of lazy bums and neer-do-wells who cant acheive anything on their own and feel entitled to have the government pay for things they dont work for.
That must make you feel awfully...........ummm.....self-righteous ?
Sorry, though, I cant muster up much sympathy. occasionally, I run into someone who doesnt choose to work but just about everyone I know works for what they have and I dont think I know or have even met a single person who feels entitled to anything from government for themselves, except maybe for honest cops and politicians, fire engines who get to the fire on time, good teachers and schools we pay for, and other services that a lot of other people share.
I'm not sure where you live........awful lot of those "types" there, wherever it is, eh? Oh, hey, could you live by any chance in a place called, "Inmyhead"? I do know a few people who live there, all sorts of things going on......... | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 7/2/2008 1:59:38 PM |
I think it's funny that the Right in America is so fervently against single payer healthcare, but the Conservatives in Britain, Canada, France, Denmark, Norway, etc are ardent defenders not only of Socialized healthcare, but FREE public college education, etc.
those are some great examples. too bad we have more illegals in this country than the entire population of those countries. it's easy to manage something for say 7,000,000 people. try managing it with over 300,000,000. it can't be done. our government can't manage to catch a cold. I guess the message you are trying to send to the youth of our nation is, aim low. don't earn anything, let big brother take care of you at the expense of another. I am sure that is going to go over well with someone who actually worked their way through college. the message you are sending to me, someone without kids, is this: you don't have your own kids, but you are responsible for the children of others. you will pay for their health care, and you will pay for their education, and they, the ones who use the most resources, will get a tax break. good logic.
1) polls show that Americans would be willing to pay more taxes for single payer system.
misleading, you forgot the world "some."
I guess I only have one question for you. what can I do with the 7% that's left of my paycheck? do I get to decide where to spend that, or do you decide that for me as well? | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 7/2/2008 2:18:55 PM | Roses? How does 'buy your fave liberal pal some roses' sound?
Not only is paying for this plan going to be interesting but reining in the huge pharmaceutical and AMA lobbies will be quite a chore. Then there's managed care......insurance companies.......oh yeah. It's gonna be a veritable party but the current system is totally whacked. I suspect some of the solution is going to have to include working within the existing framework(s).....but there are some really interesting decisions that have to be made. For starters, I'd advocate for slashing DTC (direct to consumer) advertising on the part of the pharmaceutical companies. That's a total joke.... | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 7/2/2008 3:30:06 PM | Self sufficient.
Not even close. Do you honestly believe you pay your fair portion for the government services you receive every day? You don't. Almost no one does. For capitalism to work, the wealthiest must pay the highest percent of taxes and they do (though in my opinion, they still don't pay enough). Unless you are extremely rich, and nothing you have said supports that you are, you are leaching off of others. You are getting a free ride. If you want to show you are sincere about paying your own way, I suggest you call The US Government and ask what your share truly is. Then write a check. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 7/2/2008 4:03:15 PM |
Not even close. Do you honestly believe you pay your fair portion for the government services you receive every day? You don't. Almost no one does. For capitalism to work, the wealthiest must pay the highest percent of taxes and they do (though in my opinion, they still don't pay enough). Unless you are extremely rich, and nothing you have said supports that you are, you are leaching off of others. You are getting a free ride. If you want to show you are sincere about paying your own way, I suggest you call The US Government and ask what your share truly is. Then write a check.
Ok so following your logic why would I want the government to spend even more money to give me free healthcare? You already said I am recieving more from the system than I put in. (which I completely disagree with,but that is what you said) Why would I want to financially burden the government even more? Besides that we can't even support the programs already in place. Social security is a bust, so all that money I paid into the system is for nothing. If I was able to invest the money I wasted on this system, I would be well on my way to a secure retirement. Government is not the answer to everything, especially when it comes to managing money. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 7/2/2008 4:43:47 PM | Good post, Written by Hank!! Capitalism works best when the rich pay their fair share. During the 50s and early 60s we enjoyed a high level of prosperity, while the rich paid their fair share. The stock market has historically performed far better when the Democrats were in control, along with a Democratic Congress. Progressive policies are good for the people, and also good for business!
I think it's time for a modern day version of the Boston Tea Party! We should revolt against the private health insurance companies and find ways to put them out of business by passing legislation that regulates them so tightly that they go broke. I would also love to see a March for Health Care, with over a million Americans marching on Washington demanding universal health care. I for one am fed up with corporate greed being involved in my health care decisions! | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 7/2/2008 4:47:44 PM | Well, gee whiz, how nice of you to feel self-sufficient, Kanaduh. Funny, but I am also self-sufficient, too, and dont feel surrounded by leeches....well, I mean I DO depend on the grocers for food and the city for water and sewer and the electrical and heating that give me light and warmth and an ambulance if i got sick and a cop if a robber came and robbed me n and doctors and hospitals and....well, gee, a whole lot of other people ....but darn it, I go to work.....and depend on the trains and the engineers and conductors to get me there.... but at least i am not disabled! or aged! or mentally ill or retarded!
Yep!
And Social Security being a bust.....well, I dont suppose that has anything to do with demographics, does it? Would it still be a "bust" if an equal number of people are putting into it as are taking out of it? Or is it not pencilling out because the big demographic bubble of baby boomers looming ahead and not enough workers putting in?
I am sure you could have invested it wisely......theres a great company a lot of people had their retirement in, called Enron? Lets see, Bear Stearns could have handled your money, too..... | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 7/2/2008 5:33:06 PM | Polls On Single Payer Healthcare:
From March 2007:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/02/washington/02poll.html
"A majority of Americans say the federal government should guarantee health insurance to every American, especially children, and are willing to pay higher taxes to do it, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll. "
"The poll found Americans across party lines willing to make some sacrifice to ensure that every American has access to health insurance. Sixty percent, including 62 percent of independents and 46 percent of Republicans, said they would be willing to pay more in taxes. Half said they would be willing to pay as much as $500 a year more."
"Nearly 8 in 10 said they thought it was more important to provide universal access to health insurance than to extend the tax cuts of recent years; 18 percent said the tax cuts were more important."
http://www.pollingreport.com/health3.htm
ABC News/Washington Post Poll. June 12-15, 2008. N=1,125 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3. Fieldwork by TNS.
"Which of these do you think is more important: providing health care coverage for all Americans, even if it means raising taxes, OR, holding down taxes, even if it means some Americans do not have health care coverage?"
Coverage For All 66%
Holding Down Taxes 31%
Unsure 3%
http://www.aafp.org/online/en/home/publications/news/news-now/health-of-the-public/20070627healthindex.html
June 27, 2007
Even With Higher Taxes
Opinion Poll Shows Americans Support Universal Coverage
"Americans support universal health coverage, even if it means higher taxes, according to a recently published study by Catholic Healthcare West, California's largest not-for-profit hospital system."
"The study, the "Health Security Index," found that 72 percent of respondents agreed that "the time has come for universal health care," and 63 percent agreed the time has come "even if it means increasing taxes." Responses were gathered from 1,771 adults nationwide."
"The growing momentum for reform stems from Americans' falling sense of security about health care, the study authors say. Eighty-nine percent of survey respondents said they are concerned about the number of uninsured Americans, and 60 percent said they worry about their ability to afford health care services they need. "
"The survey also shows that
36 percent of respondents said they could not afford needed health care services,
20 percent said they bypassed a recommended test or procedure due to an inability to pay,
65 percent were worried about their ability to manage a chronic disease, and
22 percent said they did not see a physician when they were sick because they could not afford it. " | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 7/2/2008 6:09:36 PM | Sure you really want "universal health care" in the US? It would be a political ping pong ball just like Medicare. On Tuesday a scheduled 10.6 percent cut in Medicare payments to physicians is going into effect. And to top it off a two week delay in Medicare payments just went into effect, giving docs a double whammy. Physicians are now saying that they will have to stop treating Medicare patients, because they can't afford it.
So watch for ERs to be EVEN MORE crowded.
Have single payer insurance, and the government will be able to do the same thing to everyone.
Doctors will stop taking insurance at all, and insist on "cash on the barrelhead", just like they're about to do with Medicare patients. | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 7/2/2008 7:07:33 PM | So you want FREE health care, huh? You want doctors to treat you for FREE, huh? You want FREE government handouts, huh? FREE?
(God, I love saying that, FREE...makes it all sound so stupid and as we know, FREE has no value....ha ha ha...)
Anyway, no, the cut in Medicare is not going to happen. It's been forestalled. Even if it did, some doctors COULD opt out of Medicare ..... but chances are, they'd complain and absorb it....and then again, with Medicare for ALL as national health insurance AND accepting it as a condition for receiving a medical license, that won't happen.
Anyway, a national Medicare program wont pay doctors all of what they like, but doctor's salaries arent a big piece of the medical pie, anyway ....... | |
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| So you think universal health care is good for America huh?
Posted: 7/2/2008 9:10:01 PM | No, doctors salaries are not, especially those that work in certain hospitals and with the general public. Plus, by the time they pay their student loans back they still have a nice salary, but anyone that works with people (public) does not do it for the money. | |
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